[Raider Nation]

All are going to Ryle and it will be a great team for next 4 years to come

[barrel]

How are grades checked?

How is attendance checked?

How is discipline checked?

It appears that Union pulls from a combine population of 1821 students. You guess half of that is male so 905 or so with 300 or so being males in the 7th and 8th grade. To give you a comparison on size. Trinity has 1300 males in 4 grades. A little over 300 per grade. So in 3 grades they have 975 compared to the combine male population over 3 grades at Ockerman and Grey being around 905. It is also my understanding there are players who do not attend either of those schools but yet play for the organization on one of the 3 teams they have.

[sg260573]

There are 1 or 2 kids from Ockerman

[jtsafety]

The Union team was set up because, as noted in the thread, there is no Boone Co middle school football program and due to the draft system that was in play at the Boone Co. PeeWee league. (The junior and senior teams in BCPWFL drafted players that required some to drive 30-40 mins one way to practice 4 days a week. And even then, only 13 of 25 players got to play at all, as most of the BCPWFL is about winning, not instruction) Only this season did BCPWFL try to allow the Jr/Sr teams to let kids go that would play for the various high schools they would go to. Sadly, several teams shut down due to the defections to Ryle/Cooper/Conner programs that were set up out of frustration/need to compete.

The Union team draws from the Ryle High School district which cuts through the far western edge of the Ockerman elementary/middle school district, so they don't really have access to the whole population of Ockerman. We have a friend who goes to Ockerman and wanted to play for the Raiders but the coaches wouldn't let him because he will go to Boone Co High.

There are Sr 8th and 7th grade squads that compete in the middle school level. These are the seasoned/experienced players who live within the Ryle district, go to a public school (Most to Grey and few Ockerman) and played last year. The other squad playing in the NKYFL is a group that lives in the district (some are home schooled), wants to play closer to home and maybe does not have the experience level of the other teams. In the spirit of a team rule that players need to play rather than stand on the sideline or be practice dummies, they formed this team to give them playing time and experience at a level closer to their current abilities.

There has been no mixing of the squads that I have seen all season.

Ryle will have a great pool of talent to draw from for the next few years thanks to a little foresight.

Congrats to all the teams that made the playoffs and good luck to all that are left!

[barrel]

When you are an organization like Union there is going to be a ton of questions. Just ask Lex Cath because it took a good 2-3 years for all of that to be cleared up. The simple fact is the organization does have players who do not attend either Grey or Ockerman. then there are the other issues such as
How are grades checked?

How is attendance checked?

How is discipline checked?


Theses are all things school teams must deal with. So if a team does not have to deal with these things and can use players who do not attend the school it honestly does not look like a level playign field.

[Crabcakes N Football]

When you are an organization like Union there is going to be a ton of questions. Just ask Lex Cath because it took a good 2-3 years for all of that to be cleared up. The simple fact is the organization does have players who do not attend either Grey or Ockerman. then there are the other issues such as
How are grades checked?

How is attendance checked?

How is discipline checked?


Theses are all things school teams must deal with. So if a team does not have to deal with these things and can use players who do not attend the school it honestly does not look like a level playign field.

Kids who do not attend Gray or Ockerman are home schooled and therefore can only participate on the 3rd team which plays in the NKYFL.

[raiderjack]

barrel, you've made the accusation at least twice that there are players who don't attend Gray or Ockerman. Can you back that up? Its absolutely not true.

[barrel]

1) Someone has already stated home schooled players play on the NKYFL. If they are home schooled then they do not attend the Ockerman or Grey.

2) I know for a fact another player in the organization attends a school other than Ockerman and Gray.

Crabcakes N football has already comfirmed that home schooled students play on the NKYFL. I stated that there are players in the organization that do not attend the two schools. I did not say which team within the organization they played for. the Union Raiders are an organization as a whole no matter which league they play in. As a side note some of the practices do not fit the Northern Kentucky Middle School Athletic Assicuatuin Handbook and By-laws.

Now the other questions still have not been answered.

[raiderjack]

so you can't back it up. You go on what "someone" has said previously and if it fits your argument you believe it as gospel. If you "Know for a fact" about something, lets see it. Otherwise stay out of what you know nothing about.

[jtsafety]

As parents and fans on this board, I don't know that we can answer the questions you put forth, regarding grades, discipline and attendance. I have no doubt our coaching staff could in a heartbeat, if the KYMSFA asked for it. (I know our great team moms were scrambling to get every piece of documentation they could needed to make sure they had it for the tournament. Additionally, I can't think of 1 parent that wouldn't likely pony up a report card, if asked. ) I am confident, and rest assured, our organization is not out to "steal the middle school championship" by bringing in a bunch of out of district delinquents or superathletes with poor grades to play for us. No one in the organization is that desparate and I think most of our parents would agree, that we don't really have any "Stars" on our teams that have no future but football. We do however have a TON of talent across the board on the 8th and 7th grade KYMSFA contenders. Union Raiders play as a team, rather than a superstar with a supporting cast of extras.

Again, I can't address your questions as a fan/parent, but maybe we think of the Union organization as mulitple teams run independently, according to the rules of the leagues they compete in. As I noted in a previous post, there is no mixing of the teams to "cherry pick" players. Just observing our coaches and I see no ulterior motive or need for glory from any of them. They are volunteers and a pretty great, easy going buch of guys that would have no reason to "cheat" or work outside the lines. They all know it would tarnish anything they have accomplished as well as possibly taint the Ryle program in the future. (not proof, but observations)

The Union Raiders are a great alternative to the Boone Co PeeWee League and they had a lot of success last year. It attacted a lot of attention due to the fact that all the players played in games, not on the sidelines, and the team won, a lot!. That is why there is an "alternate" team in our organization. A lot of interest in a winning organization where the kids actually get to play some with kids their own age rather than a mix of 7th/8th where the younger kids don't get to play. Who wouldn't want their kid to play with other kids in their neighborhood and have fun doing it?

Just my thoughts, for what they are worth. I can see your point, there could be questions, I am just confident in our organization and they could be answered if needed.

Good LUCK to all and Go Raiders!!!!!

[smoking44s]

BUt the home schooled boys do live in the Ryle district which make them legal per the state regulations. Would you rather they not play because they are home-schooled?

Regarding the player whom, you know for a fact does not attend Gray or Ockerman, fess up 'cause we don't know who it is. The home address listed on each players application by their parents is scrutinized specifically to guarantee that the players lives within the Ryle district. Numerous players, specifically from Boone County HS district have been turned away for this reason.

Try to be objective here for a moment, cast aside all that you know for a fact (?) and answer this, "Why would a Ryle "feeder program" as you call it develop players for RIVAL schools in our own district?" If you know of a non Ryle district player playing on this team, we certainly want to know. (BTW, Grades and attendance are checked as well, for a fact.) Give up the hate

[smoking44s]

As a side note some of the practices do not fit the Northern Kentucky Middle School Athletic Assicuatuin Handbook and By-laws.


Now what are you talking about? If you have a grievance, file it with your spelling teacher.

[barrel]

The NKYFL requires a student to attend the school. Unless a change has been made to the KHSAA home schooled students may night play sports for a school. This is the same regulation for the KYMSFA.

You do have a player on the NYKYFL team that lives within the school district but attends school in another district. He wears his jersey just about every Friday to school.

This has nothing to do with hate. The fact is there are going to have to be certain questions answered and adjustments made in the KYMSFA just like there was for Lex Cath. For those that are not aware there is not a Lex Cath MS. The same questions being asked of Union are the same questions asked of Lex Cath. Past enrollment numbers Lex Cath was very open answering questions. In fact Lex Cath ended up being D2 because of a D1 school requesting enrollment numbers. Lex Cath had stated they would always play D1 because of how they were set up.

Some are taking offense to things that there is no need to be offended by. School team check grades often once a week. The school runs a report off of the grading system used at the school. If a player doesn't make grades he must sit for a week. This varies from school to school but it is fairly common. Many schools have now started discipline policies that follow the same line and attendance.

At no point has anyone said the Union team was made of thugs, or superstar athletes with poor grades. It is a simple fact since Union is not a school team questions will be asked during the offseason at the KYMSFA meeting.

[BIG RED Daddy]

RE: You do have a player on the NYKYFL team that lives within the school district but attends school in another district. He wears his jersey just about every Friday to school.

Are the districts you refer to the High School zoned districts or are you referring to another school systems district? Boone County Schools will let a STUDENT attend a school out of their school zoned district, providing the parent works for the school system, particularly at the school where the parents works. Check this "fact" with phantom player and his parent.

[barrel]

RE: You do have a player on the NYKYFL team that lives within the school district but attends school in another district. He wears his jersey just about every Friday to school.

Are the districts you refer to the High School zoned districts or are you referring to another school systems district? Boone County Schools will let a STUDENT attend a school out of their school zoned district, providing the parent works for the school system, particularly at the school where the parents works. Check this "fact" with phantom player and his parent.

Student lives in the Ryle district

Student attends a school in a different county

I've known the family for about 6 years so there is no phantom.

[smoking44s]

Per you: He lives in the Ryle school district. Outside of the pass discourse, this player by your OWN admission lives in the Ryle district and is legal in all aspects. You're acting like a child with an "I've got a secret and I won't tell you" mindset. After all this endless haranguing and beating on a dead horse it reeks of senseless and useless rhetoric. And you still persist...

[marooncountry]

what im not clear on is why the middle schools in question dont field their own teams in the kymsfa..irregardless of which high school every other middle school feeds into each middle school team is considered a stand alone entry in the kymsfa.what special condition exists at boone co, schools that makes them different..if a middle school wants to field a team then field one,,,,if you want to merge several middle schools then go play AAU ball and compete with other blended teams...would love to combine all three pulaski co middle schools into one team

[jtsafety]

I have to agree with Smokin44's on this.

Barrel, I would have to think that all teams are prepped to answer any questions the KYMSFA would have. If the player in question plays on the NKYFL, then the question is moot. He isn't playing for the state championship teams. I think the defensiveness comes from the fact that you make it sound like the Union Raiders aren't a legitimate team or are cheating somehow.

Obviously you are in the N Ky area. Why the questions that try to make the one organization from the entire area that made the playoffs look sketchy? Perhaps with a competitor? I'd be concerned too if I lived in NKY had to play Union next season.

Sadly, is it relevant now? Both teams kind of got ganked in 1 form or another yesterday.

It would seem that any catholic school program would have this issue, as noted with Lex Cath. Any team in Boone Co would fall under the same microscope. So if Cooper, Conner or Cov Cath qualify next season, you going after them?

[barrel]

Per you: He lives in the Ryle school district. Outside of the pass discourse, this player by your OWN admission lives in the Ryle district and is legal in all aspects. You're acting like a child with an "I've got a secret and I won't tell you" mindset. After all this endless haranguing and beating on a dead horse it reeks of senseless and useless rhetoric. And you still persist...

It was stated that all the players in the organization go to Gray or Ockerman. That is incorrect. There is a player that lives in the Ryle district yet attends a completely different middle school. In a different county. That is a simple fact. Why he attends school in a different county I do not know. His brother does attend Ryle. He attends school in a county that is not Boone.

One might not like the facts but they are the facts. Just like a number of schools in the KYMSFA will be asking a number of questions during the offseason. Now one can argue and feel the attention is undue. It is the simple facts of how things are. Lex Cath can tell you that a number of questions will be asked.

Marooncountry: Scott Co is thinking the same thing. If they combined into a group that is not directly linked to a MS what they could do and develop.

[marooncountry]

i guess my next question will be ...do these same union raiders football players compete in combined teams in other sports as well{basketball.baseball,soccer}..if not ,then why are they choosing to do so and why are they allowed to by the kymsfa...just something i was thinking about...

[barrel]

I know the Boone Co MS compete as MS in a league in other sports. So Gray has a MS basketball team. I know they do volleyball and basketball. I am not sure what other sports they play. They might have soccer. Union is linked to Ryle HS but not to the schools themselves past where a student lives is my understanding. The northern Kentucky league in its by laws state the student must attend the school for which they play. This excludes home schooled students from playing for school teams. It appears since Union is not a school team they allow home schooled students to play in the NKYFL.

[marooncountry]

so barrel with your last post in mind ...do you feel that the union raider football team that played farnsley yesterday is a true middle school team??? i do not!!!so how do we let the kymsfa know that the kymsfa should be for legitimate middle school teams and not for blended or travel or feeder programs...??

[barrel]

Your school, AD, coach can contact the KYMSFA and their feelings. There are teams that do not have a MS that play in the KYMSFA. Lex Cath has no true MS and there are schools like Bell that have no middle school but a number of k-8 schools that play as Bell Co MS.

I honestly believe most schools in the KYMSFA will not have an issue once certain questions are cleared up. Some schools have already voiced issues and some do not care. One problem is that this opens up a few doors that some might not want open. There are a couple of more teams like Union that might come into the KYMSFA such as the feeders for Cooper and Conner. This also opens the door for other areas to following the same blueprint in creating feeder teams. With magnet schools and open enrollment Jefferson Co could create such teams. Scott Co is another that could create similar team(s).

The KYMSFA is a young organization. They are still learning and developing. They do not have the power the KHSAA does. Any issues I am sure will be addressed during the winter meeting.

[IAM22]

As parents and fans on this board, I don't know that we can answer the questions you put forth, regarding grades, discipline and attendance. I have no doubt our coaching staff could in a heartbeat, if the KYMSFA asked for it. (I know our great team moms were scrambling to get every piece of documentation they could needed to make sure they had it for the tournament. Additionally, I can't think of 1 parent that wouldn't likely pony up a report card, if asked. ) I am confident, and rest assured, our organization is not out to "steal the middle school championship" by bringing in a bunch of out of district delinquents or superathletes with poor grades to play for us. No one in the organization is that desparate and I think most of our parents would agree, that we don't really have any "Stars" on our teams that have no future but football. We do however have a TON of talent across the board on the 8th and 7th grade KYMSFA contenders. Union Raiders play as a team, rather than a superstar with a supporting cast of extras.

Again, I can't address your questions as a fan/parent, but maybe we think of the Union organization as mulitple teams run independently, according to the rules of the leagues they compete in. As I noted in a previous post, there is no mixing of the teams to "cherry pick" players. Just observing our coaches and I see no ulterior motive or need for glory from any of them. They are volunteers and a pretty great, easy going buch of guys that would have no reason to "cheat" or work outside the lines. They all know it would tarnish anything they have accomplished as well as possibly taint the Ryle program in the future. (not proof, but observations)

The Union Raiders are a great alternative to the Boone Co PeeWee League and they had a lot of success last year. It attacted a lot of attention due to the fact that all the players played in games, not on the sidelines, and the team won, a lot!. That is why there is an "alternate" team in our organization. A lot of interest in a winning organization where the kids actually get to play some with kids their own age rather than a mix of 7th/8th where the younger kids don't get to play. Who wouldn't want their kid to play with other kids in their neighborhood and have fun doing it?

Just my thoughts, for what they are worth. I can see your point, there could be questions, I am just confident in our organization and they could be answered if needed.

Good LUCK to all and Go Raiders!!!!!

When you have try outs you only pick the kids that can play for the select team...I mean 8th grade team. That is how they all play. If you are not good enough you are put on the "JV" team...7th and 8th team..not middle school team.

The 7th grade team is a try out select team also.. that is how they all play. If not good enough you are put on the "JV" 7th and 8th grade team that plays in a youth league.

This is why their rosters are small for their middle school teams.

[IAM22]

There are ZERO plans for a Conner feeder team or middle school team.

[IAM22]

Boone Co schools will not allow their middle schools to have football do to the relationships with the Boone Co pee wee football league. However, Boone Co schools have allowed each high school team to start a direct feeder team. These feeder teams have been granted use of facilities and can have booster support, but can not in any way represent the middle schools of Boone Co. The feeder teams may only compose of students who attend Boone Co schools and those students can only play for the feeder team for their district high schoool.

Here is the Breakdown
High School Team/Feeder Team --- Breakdown from middle schools

Ryle/Union Raiders - 100% Gray Middle, 10% RA Jones Middle, 15% Ockerman

Cooper/Union Jaguars - 100% Camp Ernest, 10% Ra Jones, 5% Conner

Cooner/Hebron Cougars (starting in 2012) -- 95% Conner middle

Boone/No Feeder Team -- 85% Ockerman, 80% RA Jones

Who ever gave you the information that I have bolded lied to you....

[IAM22]

i guess my next question will be ...do these same union raiders football players compete in combined teams in other sports as well{basketball.baseball,soccer}..if not ,then why are they choosing to do so and why are they allowed to by the kymsfa...just something i was thinking about...

No...good question.

Just like why do you let kids play freshman ball and middle school?

[smoking44s]

There are NO tryouts. Look at the registration form. Players are put on teams matched with players of like ability, experience and yes, talent. This guarantees more than adequate playing time for ALL players. In the Pee Wee system, if you were NOT a superstar or the son of a parent who patronized the head coach, you at best may get a token down or two. Winning, only winning and coaching ego's were the main motivators in that league. They can toss all the BS they want about development there, but too many kids are developed to ride the pine, to be complacent with no success, and to cheer on others at the cost of their own playing time. A players self esteem becomes a non-factor win a W is at risk.

[BIG RED Daddy]

DO I really need to post this again????

KENTUCKY MIDDLE SCHOOL FOOTBALL ASSOCIATION
RULES – 2011
Page | 2
2. Players MUST attend within the school system the team represents (i.e. no home schooled players) (school system shall include multiple feeder elementary/middle schools that combine to form a recognized middle school football program).

[smoking44s]

There are no other teams like the Raiders for the boys to play on. Gray and Ockerman have basketball teams, and possibly track, cross country and volleyball. Several of the boys play baseball on various teams but none associated or aligned with Ryle High School. There is a separate Union Raiders baseball team set up with some Ryle High Schools juniors on it. It is a select team, that is ABSOLUTELY not associated with Ryle other than the fact that some of the players attend school there and share a common name. It is not to be confused or considered to be the Ryle Raiders High School team, although some players play on both.