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Suspension rules beefed up for Ky. athletes, coaches
#31
PEOPLESCHAMP Wrote:Im with Star on this thread also. Nothing wrong with punishing those who deserve to be punished. If the ejections are starting to add up then a stricter penalty must be handed down until they come to a stop.

I guess more rules as in more laws make a better county and sport better:dontthink The problem with your speed limit comparison is there is a pretty much black or white issue, i.e. either you are over the speed limit or not.
We can't get uniform decisions from refs what a foul is, what constitutes a carry [palm] , what constitutes a hold and it goes on and on. We definitely know from our government the more power individuals have the more some like to misuse that power. We will continue to disagree and thats okay but as in my government I desire less laws and people with ultimate authority. I do not see that the sports had a problem and I enjoyed them as they were with less power to the refs. I go to watch the kids play not be suspended and sitting on the bench! Less rules and less Laws is just my nature.....conservative
#32
I TOTALLY disagree with this foolish rule. WE ALL agree on the need for players to obey the rules, show high character, not be baited and NEVER fight. That is not the issue. The issue is this rule is a bueracratic overreaction to some data points that say too many athletes in KY get ejected - so let's make a harsher penalty and fewer will get into fights and get ejected - which is why the prison systems suffer for business when we create harsher laws, right? Not hardly. This rediculous attempt to legislate behavior gives far too much power to officials who openly admit among themselves that they can be the most biased participants of a game in the worst situations. Even in the best situations they are human and make rash and incorrect judgements. When either of those situations costs a player 20-30% of a season it is a tragedy that cannot be undone.

There is no clear definition of fighting that must be met prior to this rule coming into play. One ref sees a push as a fight and boom - a senior looses 20%. Another sees the same thing and doesn't even pull his flag. Some call it a 15 yard infraction. All this ambiguity predicably leads to disaster for players who love this game and are doing their best to defend themselves and help their team win. And yes - I'm heavily biased on this one due to the nonsense that Knox Central had to endure this year when Diamond lost two games due to an official in TN ejecting him for a helmet slap to get a kid off him who continued to shove him after the play ended.

We have great coaches for the most part just like Stardust who will not tolerate crap that costs them 15 yard penalties. Allow them to punish the kid in addition to a 15 yard penalty. Take the power away from officials who cannot often see the whole situation and make calls that could effect a kid forever based on a 2 second view of a situation that could be totally different than they percieve. OR publish a firm definition of fighting that is a clear alteracation between two players involving punches. BUT stop this ludicracy of taking so much from a kid over something you barely saw.

I have an open dialogue with the KHSAA on this issue and plan to pursue it until it is changed. Football changed my life for the better from a tough situation. And it has the power to do that for all who touch it. For KY to give the power to take 20% of a season from a player for anything less than the worst infraction is a tragedy that should and will be addressed.
#33
Football1 Wrote:I TOTALLY disagree with this foolish rule. WE ALL agree on the need for players to obey the rules, show high character, not be baited and NEVER fight. That is not the issue. The issue is this rule is a bueracratic overreaction to some data points that say too many athletes in KY get ejected - so let's make a harsher penalty and fewer will get into fights and get ejected - which is why the prison systems suffer for business when we create harsher laws, right? Not hardly. This rediculous attempt to legislate behavior gives far too much power to officials who openly admit among themselves that they can be the most biased participants of a game in the worst situations. Even in the best situations they are human and make rash and incorrect judgements. When either of those situations costs a player 20-30% of a season it is a tragedy that cannot be undone.

I certainly agree with you on this. I can understand the interpretation, but I really have not seen it be that bad. I am required to complete a significant amount of KHSAA training every year. Much of it is health related, but it is very loud and clear on the direction of sportsmanship! Trust me, coaches are drilled on stressing the importance of sportsmanship and control!

There is no clear definition of fighting that must be met prior to this rule coming into play. One ref sees a push as a fight and boom - a senior looses 20%. Another sees the same thing and doesn't even pull his flag. Some call it a 15 yard infraction. All this ambiguity predicably leads to disaster for players who love this game and are doing their best to defend themselves and help their team win. And yes - I'm heavily biased on this one due to the nonsense that Knox Central had to endure this year when Diamond lost two games due to an official in TN ejecting him for a helmet slap to get a kid off him who continued to shove him after the play ended.

We have great coaches for the most part just like Stardust who will not tolerate crap that costs them 15 yard penalties. Allow them to punish the kid in addition to a 15 yard penalty. Take the power away from officials who cannot often see the whole situation and make calls that could effect a kid forever based on a 2 second view of a situation that could be totally different than they percieve. OR publish a firm definition of fighting that is a clear alteracation between two players involving punches. BUT stop this ludicracy of taking so much from a kid over something you barely saw.

I have an open dialogue with the KHSAA on this issue and plan to pursue it until it is changed. Football changed my life for the better from a tough situation. And it has the power to do that for all who touch it. For KY to give the power to take 20% of a season from a player for anything less than the worst infraction is a tragedy that should and will be addressed.

Is it really that bad in other area's where the officials have such a short trigger in football! I see the skirmishes all the time in football and the officials do an excellent job in handling it. I was on the sidelines 3 years ago (Gold Charger can add to this, I think he was there), for the Campbell County / Clark County game. The game was chippy throughout, but the officials had done a decent job of controlling things. A play on the GRC sidelines after a tackle of a Camel receiver ignited into a brawl. Coaches did an awesome job clearing the field as quickly as possible and order was restored, but it resulted in 2 player ejections! This was a brawl that both benches cleared, yet only the two players who initiated it got tossed. Rules only required the players to sit one game! IMO, sitting one game was not enough. Yes, the coaches had to power to dictate more, but we are talking about a brawl! Those actions are not acceptable and a more stern punishment can be understood for these types of actions.

I hate the power of government, but we put those in charge of our lives in a democratic way. Well, this rule was not put in place by the KHSAA! The KHSAA must put this before a vote, thus this was done in a democratic way. There may be those who do not like the rule, but obviously the very schools in which the athletes we are crying foul for, are the ones who accept this rule and wanted it put into action. If there are truly those who are in disagreement of this rule, I suggest starting with your AD. But, my guess is if a poll was done after inquiries to AD's were made, 90% would say that their AD did not support the rule. Yet, we know that more than 50% had to in order for it to even pass!
#34
willseeuntheHOUSE Wrote:I guess more rules as in more laws make a better county and sport better:dontthink The problem with your speed limit comparison is there is a pretty much black or white issue, i.e. either you are over the speed limit or not.
We can't get uniform decisions from refs what a foul is, what constitutes a carry [palm] , what constitutes a hold and it goes on and on. We definitely know from our government the more power individuals have the more some like to misuse that power. We will continue to disagree and thats okay but as in my government I desire less laws and people with ultimate authority. I do not see that the sports had a problem and I enjoyed them as they were with less power to the refs. I go to watch the kids play not be suspended and sitting on the bench! Less rules and less Laws is just my nature.....conservative

Its not more, or new rules. Its a stricter penalty enforcement. Id rather not make this a political argument. They are rules in place in every sport that clearly defines what is and is not allowed. More times then not they are black and white. The exception being stalling in wrestling.

It seems to me that most people are trying to put a lot of blame on the officials. This kid or that kid wouldnt of been ejected if the official would of done this or that. Bunch of crap, life isnt fair and you dont always get a fair shake. Just because you feel your getting the wrong end of a deal thats no reason to break the rules and cause enough of a mess that you get ejected from a game. Its called discipline.

It all comes down to the coaches though. You have to let your players know early and often that their are consequences to your actions. Dont let them be afraid of the KHSAA penaltys, let them be afraid of YOUR penaltys

:igiveup: I guess im surprised at the overall opinion from people on this subject.
#35
Stardust Wrote:Is it really that bad in other area's where the officials have such a short trigger in football! I see the skirmishes all the time in football and the officials do an excellent job in handling it. I was on the sidelines 3 years ago (Gold Charger can add to this, I think he was there), for the Campbell County / Clark County game. The game was chippy throughout, but the officials had done a decent job of controlling things. A play on the GRC sidelines after a tackle of a Camel receiver ignited into a brawl. Coaches did an awesome job clearing the field as quickly as possible and order was restored, but it resulted in 2 player ejections! This was a brawl that both benches cleared, yet only the two players who initiated it got tossed. Rules only required the players to sit one game! IMO, sitting one game was not enough. Yes, the coaches had to power to dictate more, but we are talking about a brawl! Those actions are not acceptable and a more stern punishment can be understood for these types of actions.

I hate the power of government, but we put those in charge of our lives in a democratic way. Well, this rule was not put in place by the KHSAA! The KHSAA must put this before a vote, thus this was done in a democratic way. There may be those who do not like the rule, but obviously the very schools in which the athletes we are crying foul for, are the ones who accept this rule and wanted it put into action. If there are truly those who are in disagreement of this rule, I suggest starting with your AD. But, my guess is if a poll was done after inquiries to AD's were made, 90% would say that their AD did not support the rule. Yet, we know that more than 50% had to in order for it to even pass!
in the case you describe I too agree one game might have been too light. The problem with this rule is that it takes As much away from the kid who got ejected for a shove as it does the one who throws a punch.
#36
^ Agreed, and I get it it. But we are always schooling our kids that it's the 2nd guy that gets caught. Trust me, I'm not pleading innocence myself. I get what the level of competition does to us and want so bad to cross the line myself - but, when I sit back and think of how stupid I would be if I could not control myself, it clicks!
#37
Throwing a punch in a football game is just asinine. Despite the fact that you are sure to be ejected and suspended, it just does not make sense in the spirit of retribution. Particularly in football, a player can "get back" at another in many different legal ways if said player makes a conscious decision to be deliberate. That discipline is somehow definitive of what separates a smart player from a reactionary hothead. A smart player knows very well that somewhere later in the game that player to whom he feels he "owes one" will be in a vulnerable compromised position. That is where the smart player selectively chooses his moment and delivers his retribution within the rules and justifiably so. No penalties, no suspensions, just good old school hard nosed football. I do not mean to imply whatsoever that a player should ever try to injure another. But, putting the guy on his arse is part of the game and sends the appropriate message. It is somewhat akin to the brushback pitch. Ya' gotta' keep your head in the game. Damn! I love football!!!
#38
^ GREAT POST. Very well articulated. You can get retribution the right way if you stay composed
#39
You guys are truly blessed. I work with the public and encounter very few people who can react as you. I know the bible tells us to respond like you guys but in all apologies I usually come up short and retaliate on the spur of the moment. I was even worse as a young man or kid. Reguardless of the penalty or how much the coaches preached to me I would fall short as the older "mature or immature" man I am now and even worse when I was younger.
#40
[quote=Stardust]There are scuffles every single game. I'm on the sidelines every week and refs do a tremendous job of handling things and keep things from escalating. We are talking about suspensions for players being ejected. In order to get ejected, you really have to do something stupid. That goes well beyond the hitting and scuffling that goes on in every game. So, if it crosses the line into being stupid - then they need not be back on the field. Everyone is making such a big deal out of this, but just how often do ejections really happen? Then think, how many games do you see people getting into scruffs and there are no ejections. This is not that common, and if it occurs, then sit them![/QUOTE

I was thinking the same thing. I go to a HS game every week and in the last 10 years can only think of 2 ejections.
#41
^ It's just not that often. You have so many refs, and they all converge to talk it over before ejections are ever made. Having 5 guys, there is enough reasoning to take place that I think they get it right!
#42
Not to mention all the paper work and extra time it takes to report it. Trust me, these refs dont want to make an ejection as much as you dont want ejected.
#43
Stardust Wrote:Cut off the head and the snake dies. Athlete knowing that they will sit a 4th of their season just might not cross the line! Is that not the purpose of the rules! The suspensions are not meant for taking care of actions, it is designed to prevent them! I'm a coach, I support this 100%! Guarentee that coaches won't be so stupid either! Or if they do, then they deserve what they get!

I'm with you Coach. Players and coaches must be responsible for their actions. I'm not sure why but it seams we live in a world today where people do not want to be responsible for their actions. Coaches and players know the rules. They know that if you punch another player you will be suspended. Be responsible for your actions. Period....
#44
Football1 Wrote:I TOTALLY disagree with this foolish rule. WE ALL agree on the need for players to obey the rules, show high character, not be baited and NEVER fight. That is not the issue. The issue is this rule is a bueracratic overreaction to some data points that say too many athletes in KY get ejected - so let's make a harsher penalty and fewer will get into fights and get ejected - which is why the prison systems suffer for business when we create harsher laws, right? Not hardly. This rediculous attempt to legislate behavior gives far too much power to officials who openly admit among themselves that they can be the most biased participants of a game in the worst situations. Even in the best situations they are human and make rash and incorrect judgements. When either of those situations costs a player 20-30% of a season it is a tragedy that cannot be undone.

There is no clear definition of fighting that must be met prior to this rule coming into play. One ref sees a push as a fight and boom - a senior looses 20%. Another sees the same thing and doesn't even pull his flag. Some call it a 15 yard infraction. All this ambiguity predicably leads to disaster for players who love this game and are doing their best to defend themselves and help their team win. And yes - I'm heavily biased on this one due to the nonsense that Knox Central had to endure this year when Diamond lost two games due to an official in TN ejecting him for a helmet slap to get a kid off him who continued to shove him after the play ended.

We have great coaches for the most part just like Stardust who will not tolerate crap that costs them 15 yard penalties. Allow them to punish the kid in addition to a 15 yard penalty. Take the power away from officials who cannot often see the whole situation and make calls that could effect a kid forever based on a 2 second view of a situation that could be totally different than they percieve. OR publish a firm definition of fighting that is a clear alteracation between two players involving punches. BUT stop this ludicracy of taking so much from a kid over something you barely saw.

I have an open dialogue with the KHSAA on this issue and plan to pursue it until it is changed. Football changed my life for the better from a tough situation. And it has the power to do that for all who touch it. For KY to give the power to take 20% of a season from a player for anything less than the worst infraction is a tragedy that should and will be addressed.

Just wondering?? What do you think the penalty should be for;

1. Spitting in a refs face.

2. Telling the ref he is a dumb mother BLANK.

3. Throwing a punch at another player.

4. Slamming another player to the ground.
#45
How about this for starters: the report that sat the Central player for 20% of his senior season said "player ejected for fighting". If a player is to sit for 20% of the regular season for fighting - how about lets make sure a fight occurred? Is that too much to ask? I think not.

Why does it make sense to hand all this power to officials? You have school principals, ADs, coaches, parents, and others who all have a vested interest in assuring players show high character. How does it make sense to put such a huge punishment in the hands of 1 person who sees only seconds of a kids behavior? It doesn't. Two games out of a football season for something someone sees for 2 seconds is as stupid as a state trooper having the right to personally suspend your license for 2 months because he thought he saw you run a stop sign.

Define fighting at a minimum as at least one punch (closed fist) being throw by one person. Shoving, mouthing off, illegal use of hands and the rest are "unsportsmanlike conduct", result in a 15 yard (likely game altering in many cases) penalty and the kid sits for a few minutes to cool off. Lesson learned and life continues without robbing a player of 20% of his season.
#46
sstack Wrote:[quote=Stardust]There are scuffles every single game. I'm on the sidelines every week and refs do a tremendous job of handling things and keep things from escalating. We are talking about suspensions for players being ejected. In order to get ejected, you really have to do something stupid. That goes well beyond the hitting and scuffling that goes on in every game. So, if it crosses the line into being stupid - then they need not be back on the field. Everyone is making such a big deal out of this, but just how often do ejections really happen? Then think, how many games do you see people getting into scruffs and there are no ejections. This is not that common, and if it occurs, then sit them![/QUOTE

I was thinking the same thing. I go to a HS game every week and in the last 10 years can only think of 2 ejections.

EXACTLY! THEN WHY WOULD KHSAA SEE THE NEED TO CLAMP DOWN WHERE THERE APPEARS TO BE NO PROBLEM ANYWAY!!!!!!MORE UNNECESSARY RULES AND REGULATIONS!!!!:devilflam
#47
I went thru the DQ list for 10-11 and after about half I gave up counting. I had 74 football, 251 soccer, 56 baseball, 44 basketball. Soccer does include girls but it appears to be the major problem.
#48
^ Where is the DQ list
#49
Stardust Wrote:^ Where is the DQ list

http://www.khsaa.org "reports and information" at top "public listing of DQs" under "general reports and instructions"
#50
Football1 Wrote:How about this for starters: the report that sat the Central player for 20% of his senior season said "player ejected for fighting". If a player is to sit for 20% of the regular season for fighting - how about lets make sure a fight occurred? Is that too much to ask? I think not.

Why does it make sense to hand all this power to officials? You have school principals, ADs, coaches, parents, and others who all have a vested interest in assuring players show high character. How does it make sense to put such a huge punishment in the hands of 1 person who sees only seconds of a kids behavior? It doesn't. Two games out of a football season for something someone sees for 2 seconds is as stupid as a state trooper having the right to personally suspend your license for 2 months because he thought he saw you run a stop sign.

Define fighting at a minimum as at least one punch (closed fist) being throw by one person. Shoving, mouthing off, illegal use of hands and the rest are "unsportsmanlike conduct", result in a 15 yard (likely game altering in many cases) penalty and the kid sits for a few minutes to cool off. Lesson learned and life continues without robbing a player of 20% of his season.

Maybe we should have a jury trial with attorneys. This whole thing is so stupid. Just play by the rules and there is no problem. You throw a punch and your dumb ass sits. You curse a ref and your dumb as sits. Very simple!!!! Don't do it.
#51
Jeepman Wrote:Maybe we should have a jury trial with attorneys. This whole thing is so stupid. Just play by the rules and there is no problem. You throw a punch and your dumb ass sits. You curse a ref and your dumb as sits. Very simple!!!! Don't do it.

Exactly right and lets add some extra time for flagrant fouls and maybe some fines for the parents to pay...(.now that would really be a deterrant) and if the player does it a second time lets add jail time. If we want deterrants lets throw the book at them and we can assure that the game is clean. We need more laws and more severe penalties. Very simple!!!!!!
#52
Jeepman Wrote:Maybe we should have a jury trial with attorneys. This whole thing is so stupid. Just play by the rules and there is no problem. You throw a punch and your dumb ass sits. You curse a ref and your dumb as sits. Very simple!!!! Don't do it.
Wow. Score one for Captain Oversimplification. Why don't offensive linemen just stop holding so we aren't troubled with that one either? Maybe we could even talk DBs into just allowing the receiver to catch without interference? Not likely huh? Fact is things happen that require rules to be in place to deal with those things. My point here is not to support fighting or talking rudely to refs - just the opposite - my point is to penalize those who do such things in a way that makes sense. To use your term, if a dumb ass player does make a mistake is it not reasonable for us to expect the consequence of being a dumb ass be fitting and not over reaching? My dumb ass thinks so...

Taking 2 games plus the remainder of the current game is what is dumb. You simply can't convince me that any thinking person would agree that a player who gets ejected for shoving some punk off him who insists on being an overachiever after the whistle should rightly sit for over 20% of his regular season. If you really believe that then I frankly think you and anyone else who carries such logic are living in fantasy land.
#53
Football1 agree!!! No way each ejection warrants the same penalty. Fight breaks out sideline player runs onto field 10 yards, ejection. His buddy runs from sideline and punches someone, he gets same thing. Lets do 5 years for speeding and 5 for murder. The other big issue I have is basketball, baseball 30 games. Soccer over 20. We are punishing football players 3x's more than basket and basebase. 2x's as much as soccer.:please:
#54
Personally, I don't see a problem with the rule or the penalty. Yes the penalty in football is more severe, but it's much easier to get ejected from a Basketball or Soccer game. Some of the things tolerated in Football would get you suspended from both.

And the least of my concern when the suspension takes place is the violator....my concern is the remainder of the team who was let down by the foolish, selfish actions. In fact, if I were a coach, I wouldn't tolerate it myself. I've seen several times where I would have yanked a player for not showing respect and dignity towards the other players or the officials. The only issue I see is perhaps in a situation like KC had with Diamond where the officials have not been through the same instruction as to the impact that the ejection would have. So, I think that there should be a special review when the call is made by an out of state officiating crew.
#55
laker20 Wrote:Personally, I don't see a problem with the rule or the penalty. Yes the penalty in football is more severe, but it's much easier to get ejected from a Basketball or Soccer game. Some of the things tolerated in Football would get you suspended from both.

And the least of my concern when the suspension takes place is the violator....my concern is the remainder of the team who was let down by the foolish, selfish actions. In fact, if I were a coach, I wouldn't tolerate it myself. I've seen several times where I would have yanked a player for not showing respect and dignity towards the other players or the officials. The only issue I see is perhaps in a situation like KC had with Diamond where the officials have not been through the same instruction as to the impact that the ejection would have. So, I think that there should be a special review when the call is made by an out of state officiating crew.
Man, I thought better of you... LOL - would have bet the farm that one of the most articulate and honorable posters I have seen on this board would have been first in line to pound a fist on the table demanding this ridiculous rule be modified to a more sensible stance.

I do however appreciate and agree with your thoughts on special circumstances with out of state officials. Here is a question that I would pose for you. Imagine your son or any player you value gets in one of these situations where they respond where maybe they shouldn't have. The ref catches the second part and tosses the player. Who do you want to have the authority to deal with that situation? A rule that auto suspends that kids for 2 games just like the kid who cursed a ref or punched a player in the chin? Or coaches, principals, and AD's who deal with that kid every day? If you think about it you will know the right answer is not the rule.
#56
As stated before, it was KHSAA that enacted the rule, but it was you schools AD who voted it in. Be sure to bark at the right entity and express to them how foolhardy they were in accepting passage of this. You can petition KHSAA until you are blue in the face, but they don't answer to us, they answer to the schools who put them in charge.
#57
Stardust Wrote:As stated before, it was KHSAA that enacted the rule, but it was you schools AD who voted it in. Be sure to bark at the right entity and express to them how foolhardy they were in accepting passage of this. You can petition KHSAA until you are blue in the face, but they don't answer to us, they answer to the schools who put them in charge.

Bureaucracy....don't you just love it. It is what makes our country what we love.
#58
^ Amen to that. Everyone wants to blame the entities such as KHSAA, NCAA or whomever, yet they seem to forget that those entities truly hold no power at all. It's a disguise to allows the schools to make decisions that they do not have to put their name to. I get a good hoot every time that KHSAA is attacked yet no one seems to know that it's their very school that they are trying to take up for that a voted in such rules in the first place.
#59
Football1 Wrote:Man, I thought better of you... LOL - would have bet the farm that one of the most articulate and honorable posters I have seen on this board would have been first in line to pound a fist on the table demanding this ridiculous rule be modified to a more sensible stance.

I do however appreciate and agree with your thoughts on special circumstances with out of state officials. Here is a question that I would pose for you. Imagine your son or any player you value gets in one of these situations where they respond where maybe they shouldn't have. The ref catches the second part and tosses the player. Who do you want to have the authority to deal with that situation? A rule that auto suspends that kids for 2 games just like the kid who cursed a ref or punched a player in the chin? Or coaches, principals, and AD's who deal with that kid every day? If you think about it you will know the right answer is not the rule.

First, I appreciate your compliment.

I've thought about this a great deal, and the problem is you can't rely on all Coaches, Principals, or ADs to deal with this evenly from team to team. The fact that the players knows what the rule is, should be good enough to deter them from the action given the severity of the potential punishment. In fact, the punishment is so severe that it's easy to see that the intention is not to punish the player for the action, but to deter the player from the action.

I think the real looser in all of this is the officials who have to make these decisions in the heat of the moment as well. My biggest concern with the rule is that the severity of penalty is so great, that officials may begin to allow more to slide in fear of costing a player 20+% of their season.

To me, in the game of football, winning and loosing is secondary to sportsmanship, teamwork and discipline. A great deal of what's wrong in the US can be attributed to leniency in the punishments handed out for wrong doings. I'm glad that the KHSAA is setting a better example.

I expect our players to represent the school, their parents, and their teammates in a respectable manner. Every time Nick Britt scores a TD, he walks the ball of to the ref and jogs off the field. No dancing, no diving across the goal line backwards, no excessive celebration. I often find myself more impressed by the humbleness and sportsmanship he displays than the score itself.
#60
PaintsvilleTigerfan Wrote:Football is a game where kids hit each other. Things get out of hand sometime if there is a fight make both kids sit out the rest of the game then sort it out on film later. Also make the refs accountable. The two biggest suspensions I have seen this year were Jarrell from Betsy Layne, and Spriggs from Paintsville. Neither deserved to be thrown out. And in Spriggs' case he walked away, but The KHSAA will not review the film anymore they just go with what the refs say.
i agree...i did see jarrells ejection..couldnt believeit..didnt see the other boys but im sure it wasnt the reports the refs sent in...i do know afilm of jarrells ejection was sent to tackett and angela at khsaa...said they agreed the refs had very bad mechanics that night and randy tincher DID NOT make the rigt motions on the call...it took them several mins for the refs to get in the middle of the field to make the decision for jarrell to be tossed...i rellay think if the boy that was hit would hv got back up after the hit there would hv just been a late hit threw..the boy from ac that jarrell hit was suppose to hv had a concussion but played in a jv game that monday...its a losing battle with khsaa...

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