[LWC]

TheRealVille, I have learned through experience that it does absolutely no good to argue religion with someone. If you ever want to experience the freedom, faith, hope, love, grace and mercy through a personal relationship with Jesus, let me know. I will be here at the drop of a hat.

Christianity and a personal relationship with Jesus are not something a person can be lead to by logic, facts, arguments, etc... it is a step of faith that everyone needs to take. People have all the evidence they need, they just have to step out in faith.

I pray for you as I pray for everyone on this forum.

[TheRealVille]

TheRealVille, I have learned through experience that it does absolutely no good to argue religion with someone. If you ever want to experience the freedom, faith, hope, love, grace and mercy through a personal relationship with Jesus, let me know. I will be here at the drop of a hat.

Christianity and a personal relationship with Jesus are not something a person can be lead to by logic, facts, arguments, etc... it is a step of faith that everyone needs to take. People have all the evidence they need, they just have to step out in faith.

I pray for you as I pray for everyone on this forum.

What's the old quote? "I refuse to believe in a god that gives me a brain to reason with, and expects me not to use it."

On a side note: Thanks for your concern, though.

[Bob Seger]

That's your proof? :biggrin: Could the fact that you live and breathe be contributed to evolution and the environment you live in?

Do you realize how silly that sounds? Someone had to initially create something that something else "evolved" from to begin with. Correct?


Just out of curiosity sake RV, what exactly is your sceintific explanation for it all anyways?

[Hoot Gibson]

What's the old quote? "I refuse to believe in a god that gives me a brain to reason with, and expects me not to use it."

On a side note: Thanks for your concern, though.

Believing in how the most popular scientific theories of how our universe was created requires at least as much faith as required of Christians. Both theoretical physicists and Christians believe that essentially the universe was created from nothing. What is your scientific explanation for how you came to exist? Do you believe in the principle of quantum mechanics that a particle can exist simultaneously in two locations?

Atheists are the most arrogant people on the planet. Most of them know little or nothing about science, yet they brand religious people as ignoramuses who believe in fairy tales on the basis of science that they themselves do not even begin to understand. The more you learn about theoretical physics, the more you understand how little you know about the origin of the universe.

[TheRealVille]

Do you realize how silly that sounds? Someone had to initially create something that something else "evolved" from to begin with. Correct?


Just out of curiosity sake RV, what exactly is your sceintific explanation for it all anyways?

I don't have an explanation, as neither do you. There is no concrete proof either way. But, the most evidence leans to my side. I'm not as bold as to say that there is definitely not a god, but I can almost certainly believe that if there is, it is not the god of Christians.

[TheRealVille]

I don't vote for any candidates anymore, that I think will impose there religious beliefs on my government.

[Bob Seger]

I don't have an explanation, as neither do you. There is no concrete proof either way. But, the most evidence leans to my side. I'm not as bold as to say that there is definitely not a god, but I can almost certainly believe that if there is, it is not the god of Christians.

And what would that be?


And whom would that be?

[LWC]

I don't vote for any candidates anymore, that I think will impose there religious beliefs on my government.

Do you draw a line between beliefs and morals?

For example if a person said they were pro-life but gave no reason, would they get your vote before a person said they were pro-life because of their religion?

I am just wondering if it is religious morals that you are opposed to in government or just a person that says they have a religious affiliation?

If there was a candidate that you really endorsed and lined-up with but they stated one day before the election that they were Buddhist and every decision they made was based on their religion, would you still support them? You would have before they made that statement, would you afterwards?

I know that is unlikely because I doubt that anyone that is not either an atheist/agnostic/apathetic or a Christian gets elected in the next 50 years (I wont say never) but you get the picture behind the question.

[Hoot Gibson]

Obama has done more to promote Islam than every previous US president combined. A recent poll revealed that 80 percent of US Muslim voters approve of Obama's job performance - a higher level of support than members of any other faith.

Does this fact alarm you RV, or are you only anti-Christian?

[TheRealVille]

It's too hard to type on this phone, I'll answer when I get home.

[TheRealThing]

That's your proof? :biggrin: Could the fact that you live and breathe be contributed to evolution and the environment you live in?

Your argument is a collusion of theories and deception including the Big Bang and the theory of evolution. Those who willfully deny the existence of God have to have someplace to say man started so you say you believe that eons ago, in the inky blackness of eternal nothing, devoid of any kind of heat, or energy, or movement, there floated a rock of such emensity that it contained all the known matter, and unknown matter, all the antimatter, and all the dark matter, which some now speculate is at least equal in mass to regular matter. And, this indescribable rock was just sort of hanging out, floating in infinite nothingness. Of course this rock had no age because it had no beginning since nothing else existed before it did. Anyway it exploded, even though there was no energy generating engine to cause any explosion and viola, here we all are. So, in my view, your god is a lifeless rock that came from no where because there wasn't anywhere since nothing existed.

My God is the Rock of Ages, the Great I Am, and He spoke all you see around you into existence, that is except man himself. God formed man out of the clay and breathed the Breath of Life into him from God himself. See, it's a small world, both of us believe a rock created us it's just that your rock is dead and always would be dead, whereas, mine is The Omnipotent, Omniscient, one and only true God.

By the way, I don't have to prove to you that God has revealed himself to you He already told me He did that for every man:

Romans 1:16-20 (KJV)
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:



Seger---- we both know no man can stand in the great and terrible day of the Lord. I'm reminded of the parable of the marriage of the King's Son in

Matthew 22:10-14 (KJV)
10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

[TheRealVille]

:eyeroll:

Your argument is a collusion of theories and deception including the Big Bang and the theory of evolution. Those who willfully deny the existence of God have to have someplace to say man started so you say you believe that eons ago, in the inky blackness of eternal nothing, devoid of any kind of heat, or energy, or movement, there floated a rock of such emensity that it contained all the known matter, and unknown matter, all the antimatter, and all the dark matter, which some now speculate is at least equal in mass to regular matter. And, this indescribable rock was just sort of hanging out, floating in infinite nothingness. Of course this rock had no age because it had no beginning since nothing else existed before it did. Anyway it exploded, even though there was no energy generating engine to cause any explosion and viola, here we all are. So, in my view, your god is a lifeless rock that came from no where because there wasn't anywhere since nothing existed.

My God is the Rock of Ages, the Great I Am, and He spoke all you see around you into existence, that is except man himself. God formed man out of the clay and breathed the Breath of Life into him from God himself. See, it's a small world, both of us believe a rock created us it's just that your rock is dead and always would be dead, whereas, mine is The Omnipotent, Omniscient, one and only true God.

By the way, I don't have to prove to you that God has revealed himself to you He already told me He did that for every man:

Romans 1:16-20 (KJV)
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:



Seger---- we both know no man can stand in the great and terrible day of the Lord. I'm reminded of the parable of the marriage of the King's Son in

Matthew 22:10-14 (KJV)
10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

[TheRealThing]

:eyeroll:

Whistling past the graveyard? :yikes:

[TheRealVille]

Do you draw a line between beliefs and morals?

For example if a person said they were pro-life but gave no reason, would they get your vote before a person said they were pro-life because of their religion?

I am just wondering if it is religious morals that you are opposed to in government or just a person that says they have a religious affiliation?

If there was a candidate that you really endorsed and lined-up with but they stated one day before the election that they were Buddhist and every decision they made was based on their religion, would you still support them? You would have before they made that statement, would you afterwards?

I know that is unlikely because I doubt that anyone that is not either an atheist/agnostic/apathetic or a Christian gets elected in the next 50 years (I wont say never) but you get the picture behind the question.

Like I said, I won't vote for any candidate that wants to impose their beliefs on the government. I'm a very upstanding, moral person, without any god beliefs. Would the Christians call for my head in a political race, if they knew I was atheist or agnostic, even though I lined up with them morally? I think, yes.

[TheRealVille]

Obama has done more to promote Islam than every previous US president combined. A recent poll revealed that 80 percent of US Muslim voters approve of Obama's job performance - a higher level of support than members of any other faith.

Does this fact alarm you RV, or are you only anti-Christian?

Is he imposing the Islam religion on government? I don't believe in the Islam god, no more than the Christian god. Obama isn't imposing any of his religious beliefs on America.

[TheRealThing]

Like I said, I won't vote for any candidate that wants to impose their beliefs on the government. I'm a very upstanding, moral person, without any god beliefs. Would the Christians call for my head in a political race, if they knew I was atheist or agnostic, even though I lined up with them morally? I think, yes.

ABSOLUTELY NOT!


[quote=TheRealVille]Is he imposing the Islam religion on government?


Sure he is. You been keeping up with the effort to interface Shiria Law into the judiciary of the United States? Backed and endorsed by the ultra liberal left which are headed by the liberal grand pu-bah Mr O himself and the growth that was surgically removed from his hind side and pressed into public service as the Atty General of the US, (almost a perfect dna match to the pres), presidential gopher Eric Holder.

[Hoot Gibson]

Is he imposing the Islam religion on government? I don't believe in the Islam god, no more than the Christian god. Obama isn't imposing any of his religious beliefs on America.

Please give us an example of a Christian president who ever imposed his religion on you and explain how he managed to do it. Obama has actively sought to place more Muslims in high positions in the federal government and even told the new head of NASA that one of the agency's top priorities is to make Muslims feel good about their contributions to math and science. I honestly do not think Obama is a religious person unless one considers socialism to be a religion but his pandering to Muslims has been sickening.

[TheRealVille]

Your argument is a collusion of theories and deception including the Big Bang and the theory of evolution. Those who willfully deny the existence of God have to have someplace to say man started so you say you believe that eons ago, in the inky blackness of eternal nothing, devoid of any kind of heat, or energy, or movement, there floated a rock of such emensity that it contained all the known matter, and unknown matter, all the antimatter, and all the dark matter, which some now speculate is at least equal in mass to regular matter. And, this indescribable rock was just sort of hanging out, floating in infinite nothingness. Of course this rock had no age because it had no beginning since nothing else existed before it did. Anyway it exploded, even though there was no energy generating engine to cause any explosion and viola, here we all are. So, in my view, your god is a lifeless rock that came from no where because there wasn't anywhere since nothing existed.

My God is the Rock of Ages, the Great I Am, and He spoke all you see around you into existence, that is except man himself. God formed man out of the clay and breathed the Breath of Life into him from God himself. See, it's a small world, both of us believe a rock created us it's just that your rock is dead and always would be dead, whereas, mine is The Omnipotent, Omniscient, one and only true God.

By the way, I don't have to prove to you that God has revealed himself to you He already told me He did that for every man:

Romans 1:16-20 (KJV)
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:



Seger---- we both know no man can stand in the great and terrible day of the Lord. I'm reminded of the parable of the marriage of the King's Son in

Matthew 22:10-14 (KJV)
10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

"We are all atheists about most of the gods that societies have ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further."

"What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof."

[TheRealThing]

"We are all atheists about most of the gods that societies have ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further."

"What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof."

What is it you think can't be proved? You trying to say you're not standing on a planet called Earth and, that looking up you don't see the heavens? You can't dodge the truth. Nobody, and this includes you, believes the universe just happened. And, nobody, really believes with his heart that we evolved from an amoeba. Falls into the catagory of being willfully ignorant. You have chosen to reject the truth and salvatiion, and you will not humble yourself before God and confess your sin. You can talk freely about rejecting Him on this forum but, one day you WILL go to your knees and assert with true conviction that Jesus is the Lord of this universe. Sadly, in that day, if you stay your present course, you will not be afforded an opportunity to save yourself by declaring Him Lord of your life as well. In that day there will be weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth.

[TheRealVille]

What is it you think can't be proved? You trying to say you're not standing on a planet called Earth and, that looking up you don't see the heavens? You can't dodge the truth. Nobody, and this includes you, believes the universe just happened. And, nobody, really believes with his heart that we evolved from an amoeba. Falls into the catagory of being willfully ignorant. You have chosen to reject the truth and salvatiion, and you will not humble yourself before God and confess your sin. You can talk freely about rejecting Him on this forum but, one day you WILL go to your knees and assert with true conviction that Jesus is the Lord of this universe. Sadly, in that day, if you stay your present course, you will not be afforded an opportunity to save yourself by declaring Him Lord of your life as well. In that day there will be weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth.

No I won't. It's your fairy tale, feel free to believe how you want.

[TheRealThing]

No I won't. It's your fairy tale, feel free to believe how you want.

Since you have indulged yourself in the persuit of theological study you are no doubt aware that of all the historical accounts of record, regarding any man's life and biography the most replete is that of the Lord Jesus Christ. Seen and verified by endless cross references and writings from cultures around the world. Matter of fact, 50days after the crucifixion(that 50th day is referred to as Pentecost) of Jesus Christ something happened in Jerusalem that would ensure that of all the dates in history, this one would stand out above the rest.

Acts 2:5 (KJV)
5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

These devout men went back home to "every nation" and reported what they had seen. Thus, records of the reports of what they witnessed that day in Jerusalem survived down through the years and are still a matter of public record. The life and death of Jesus is easily the most thoughly documented of all time.

Not that I would need to supply evidence to further validate the truth of creation but, I have more than ample support from witnesses of stature, and therefore, it is not just a fairy tale. The only people who reject the truth of God's Word are those who do it in spite of their conscience's urgings to the contrary. Not to mention that there has never been one case of any contradiction within the scriptures, though many have tried to find even one.

[SKINNYPIG]

Since you have indulged yourself in the persuit of theological study you are no doubt aware that of all the historical accounts of record, regarding any man's life and biography the most replete is that of the Lord Jesus Christ. Seen and verified by endless cross references and writings from cultures around the world. Matter of fact, 50days after the crucifixion(that 50th day is referred to as Pentecost) of Jesus Christ something happened in Jerusalem that would ensure that of all the dates in history, this one would stand out above the rest.

Acts 2:5 (KJV)
5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

These devout men went back home to "every nation" and reported what they had seen. Thus, records of the reports of what they witnessed that day in Jerusalem survived down through the years and are still a matter of public record. The life and death of Jesus is easily the most thoughly documented of all time.

Not that I would need to supply evidence to further validate the truth of creation but, I have more than ample support from witnesses of stature, and therefore, it is not just a fairy tale. The only people who reject the truth of God's Word are those who do it in spite of their conscience's urgings to the contrary. Not to mention that there has never been one case of any contradiction within the scriptures, though many have tried to find even one.

Matthew 22:14
"For many are invited, but few are chosen."

John 6:44
"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day."

[LWC]

Boys, all we can do is pray. To TRV the Bible is as much the Word of God as Harry Potter is. Quoting scriptures wont get it done. God has to convict his heart first. When he does, it is up to him to decide what to do with it.

TRV, as I said in another post. I am here if you ever want to talk. No judging, no blame, just love and genuine care for a fellow man.

Now about those Tea Party candidates......

[SKINNYPIG]

Boys, all we can do is pray. To TRV the Bible is as much the Word of God as Harry Potter is. Quoting scriptures wont get it done. God has to convict his heart first. When he does, it is up to him to decide what to do with it.

TRV, as I said in another post. I am here if you ever want to talk. No judging, no blame, just love and genuine care for a fellow man.

Now about those Tea Party candidates......

My scripture post wasn't intended for TRV. The point I was trying to make was that some will remain blinded. All hearts will not be pierced. We got to keep trying though, and respectfully, I can't think of a single moment in time where quoting scripture is the wrong thing to do. If someone sees scripture as the same as Harry Potter, their eyes may never be opened. Even though You and I could never remove the blinders (without the Father), we gotta keep trying. Right?

[TheRealVille]

Michele Bachman thinks the earthquake and hurricane is gods way of telling Washington that they are overspending. :lmao:

[real_change]

Michele Bachman thinks the earthquake and hurricane is gods way of telling Washington that they are overspending. :lmao:

God sucks at getting his point across if this is his method.

Perhaps he should try another technique. Sodom and Gomorrah rings a bell.

[TheRealVille]

God sucks at getting his point across if this is his method.

Perhaps he should try another technique. Sodom and Gomorrah rings a bell.

‎''If God really did tell Michele Bachmann to run, he must really want Obama to win.''

[TidesHoss32]

My IQ drops when I hear Michelle Bachmann speak.

[TheRealVille]

My IQ drops when I hear Michelle Bachmann speak.

A Romney, I could see myself voting for. It's up to you Republicans to give me a chance.

[TheRealThing]

A Romney, I could see myself voting for. It's up to you Republicans to give me a chance.

Michele Bachmann aint no Margaret Thatcher. I don't see her getting the nomination. I do think it's down to Romney or Perry, I could vote for either one of these two. Perry is a lot more solid than the media will ever give him credit for and, they will continue to make him look inferior because of his faith. It's bizzare the way the media have contempt for Christians and assail them at every oportunity while, they give the president a pass for his 20 year long membership in The Trinity United Church of Christ.

See what Obama's pastor Jeremiah Wright had to say about America back in 2008--

ARTICLE EXCERPT
March 13, 2008—

Sen. Barack Obama’s pastor says blacks should not sing “God Bless America” but “God damn America.”

The Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Obama’s pastor for the last 20 years at the Trinity United Church of Christ on Chicago’s south side, has a long history of what even Obama’s campaign aides concede is “inflammatory rhetoric,” including the assertion that the United States brought on the 9/11 attacks with its own “terrorism.”

In a campaign appearance earlier this month, Sen. Obama said, “I don’t think my church is actually particularly controversial.” He said Rev. Wright “is like an old uncle who says things I don’t always agree with,” telling a Jewish group that everyone has someone like that in their family.

Rev. Wright married Obama and his wife Michelle, baptized their two daughters and is credited by Obama for the title of his book, “The Audacity of Hope.”

An ABC News review of dozens of Rev. Wright’s sermons, offered for sale by the church, found repeated denunciations of the U.S. based on what he described as his reading of the Gospels and the treatment of black Americans.

“The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing ‘God Bless America.’ No, no, no, God damn America, that’s in the Bible for killing innocent people,” he said in a 2003 sermon. “God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme.”

In addition to damning America, he told his congregation on the Sunday after Sept. 11, 2001 that the United States had brought on al Qaeda’s attacks because of its own terrorism.

LINK---
http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/1796/ob...n-america/


I think the "inflamatory rhetoric" is way over the top and qualifies the president's home church as being the single most controversial religious affiliation of any president recent or past. Yet, no mention of all this by the news during his run up to the presidency. Why slam Perry for traditional christianty (which isn't controversial) if they're going to give Obama a pass?