[LWC]

If you could completely resolve/fix one political problem now, which is it:

The US Debt?
Unemployment?
Wars/Battles/Conflicts the US is involved in?
Homelessness?
Environmental Issues?

Maybe social or moral issues, if you view these as a problem:
Choice/Abortion?
Prayer in School?
etc....

[nky]

Private sector Jobs should be priority number 1

[Truth]

I would say that only those who actually pay income taxes should vote. Liberals like to argue that many of those who do not pay income taxes still pay payroll (Soc. Sec. and Medicare) taxes. That is actually not true. Those who earn wages but not enough to pay any income taxes nearly always are eligible for the earned income credit which likely gives them a refund much larger than any amount paid by them for payroll taxes. Therefore, they really don't pay any taxes.

In corporations, only those who are shareholders get a vote. You must be a contributor to the common good of the corporation. The same should apply in regard to who votes.

[LWC]

I would say that only those who actually pay income taxes should vote. Liberals like to argue that many of those who do not pay income taxes still pay payroll (Soc. Sec. and Medicare) taxes. That is actually not true. Those who earn wages but not enough to pay any income taxes nearly always are eligible for the earned income credit which likely gives them a refund much larger than any amount paid by them for payroll taxes. Therefore, they really don't pay any taxes.

In corporations, only those who are shareholders get a vote. You must be a contributor to the common good of the corporation. The same should apply in regard to who votes.

As far as I know, nobody gets a Medicare refund.

[Truth]

As far as I know, nobody gets a Medicare refund.

Your post indicates that you have no knowledge of income taxation or how the EIC works.

Workers, actual workers, have 7.65% (6.2% Soc. Sec. and 1.45% for Medicare) withheld from their wages. When income tax returns are prepared and filed, those who earned low to semi-low wages usually qualify for the EIC. The EIC is actually a welfare payment because the recipient usually receives everything (if any) withheld in federal income taxes, all the 7.65% payroll taxes withheld, and more (often much more). Obviously, it isn't called a Soc. Sec. refund or a Medicare refund but the end result is that it all comes back plus, most often, a hardy bonus.

Do a little homework and you'll find that I am correct.

[Wildcatk23]

I would say that only those who actually pay income taxes should vote. Liberals like to argue that many of those who do not pay income taxes still pay payroll (Soc. Sec. and Medicare) taxes. That is actually not true. Those who earn wages but not enough to pay any income taxes nearly always are eligible for the earned income credit which likely gives them a refund much larger than any amount paid by them for payroll taxes. Therefore, they really don't pay any taxes.

In corporations, only those who are shareholders get a vote. You must be a contributor to the common good of the corporation. The same should apply in regard to who votes.

Yes we all see how Successful most corporations are nowadays. Your post is absurd. Only the wealthy vote?

Some of the Smartest men of all times started out nothing, but poor hard working men and women.

[Truth]

Yes we all see how Successful most corporations are nowadays. Your post is absurd. Only the wealthy vote?

Some of the Smartest men of all times started out nothing, but poor hard working men and women.

No, Wildcat23, my post is certainly not absurd. What is absurd is that we have millions and millions of people voting who are uneducated, uninformed, and unemployed.

And, as for those "poor hard working men and women" you people always like to refer to, if they are truly hard working they will begin to earn enough to pay taxes and then they are qualified to vote.

As for the "smartest men" who "started out nothing (sic)", if they were "smart" as well as being "hard working", I would assume that they raised themselves to the point where they, too, paid taxes. Therefore, they qualify to vote.

Obviously, I am in favor of taking the vote away from those who are merely ticks sucking the blood out of those who do pay to keep the country solvent. While we are morally bound to help the "cannots", we have no duty to help the "willnots". There are millions of "willnots" in society and they should not vote.

[Deathstar 80]

Some of the Smartest men of all times started out nothing, but poor hard working men and women.

Like Abraham Lincoln, who was born in a log cabin in rural Kentucky. :Thumbs:

I personally think the national debt is a very big problem. If we didn't have this large national debt, then we wouldn't have had our national credit rating downgraded and we wouldn't have to worry about cutting spending/raising taxes. Also, we could focus on creating jobs instead of focusing on the national debt.

Although, I personally think there's one other issue that might be worse than the national debt. If us the American people have forgotten the fact of why this country was made in the first place, then we're in trouble. If we think that this country was made to help us have more money and stuff, then we're in trouble. If we think that this country was made with people who care and help each other as well as searching for the truth instead of an agenda, then we can be like the great Americans in the past and live peaceably during tough times.

I haven't read much of the Federalist Papers, but from what I have read, I think Alexander Hamilton talked about how amazing it was during the American Revolution that the American people united together. Hamilton went on to explain that we should stay united as one nation. The American people have truly been unique from the rest of the world. And hopefully, we still are.

[Wildcatk23]

No, Wildcat23, my post is certainly not absurd. What is absurd is that we have millions and millions of people voting who are uneducated, uninformed, and unemployed.

And, as for those "poor hard working men and women" you people always like to refer to, if they are truly hard working they will begin to earn enough to pay taxes and then they are qualified to vote.

As for the "smartest men" who "started out nothing (sic)", if they were "smart" as well as being "hard working", I would assume that they raised themselves to the point where they, too, paid taxes. Therefore, they qualify to vote.

Obviously, I am in favor of taking the vote away from those who are merely ticks sucking the blood out of those who do pay to keep the country solvent. While we are morally bound to help the "cannots", we have no duty to help the "willnots". There are millions of "willnots" in society and they should not vote.

Just because someone doesn't make 50K+ a year and pay taxes they shouldnt vote?

OK lets go this way with it. Most Coal miners in the area pay there income taxes. They work hard and ear every dime they make. YET a large amount of them never finish high school or get there GED, SO should they be allowed to vote? Or are they Ignorant Middle Class Scum? Some probably don't have an IQ of 60 but they make 70 grand a year. Can They Vote?

Obviously your for taking the vote away from anyone that's not your kinda class people. Your post is absurd. Ridiculous. Ignorant. Uneducated. Merely a figment of your illiterate brain.

Lincoln


But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate -- we can not consecrate -- we can not hallow -- this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

Not and that government of the wealthy people, by the wealthy people, for the wealthy people, shall not perish from the earth.[/B]

Gimme a Break? People who pay income taxes? There are plenty of great people who have major obstacles in there life that has kept them from making a great salary. Just because someone doesnt make a lot of money doesnt make them any less of an American as you or me.

[Hoot Gibson]

The size and scope of the federal government. Most big problems in our society today exist because of this country's gargantuan social welfare system and the refusal of our federal government to respect and pass legislation in accordance with the 10th Amendment.

[Hoot Gibson]

Just because someone doesn't make 50K+ a year and pay taxes they shouldnt vote?

OK lets go this way with it. Most Coal miners in the area pay there income taxes. They work hard and ear every dime they make. YET a large amount of them never finish high school or get there GED, SO should they be allowed to vote? Or are they Ignorant Middle Class Scum? Some probably don't have an IQ of 60 but they make 70 grand a year. Can They Vote?

Obviously your for taking the vote away from anyone that's not your kinda class people. Your post is absurd. Ridiculous. Ignorant. Uneducated. Merely a figment of your illiterate brain.

Lincoln


But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate -- we can not consecrate -- we can not hallow -- this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

Not and that government of the wealthy people, by the wealthy people, for the wealthy people, shall not perish from the earth.[/B]

Gimme a Break? People who pay income taxes? There are plenty of great people who have major obstacles in there life that has kept them from making a great salary. Just because someone doesnt make a lot of money doesnt make them any less of an American as you or me.

Taxpayers should have a say in how their taxes are spent. Everybody else should work hard to become taxpayers. Moochers are destroying this country. The earned income tax credit should be abolished and every citizen should pay at least a small amount of federal income taxes. Free loaders should not be able to vote to help themselves to other people's money.

Letting people who pay no taxes vote is like letting people walk into a bank and apply for loans and then requiring the bank to loan them whatever amount they want, interest free. Under that system, banks would go bankrupt in a hurry. Our federal government is quickly going broke for the same reason.

[Truth]

Just because someone doesn't make 50K+ a year and pay taxes they shouldnt vote?

OK lets go this way with it. Most Coal miners in the area pay there income taxes. They work hard and ear every dime they make. YET a large amount of them never finish high school or get there GED, SO should they be allowed to vote? Or are they Ignorant Middle Class Scum? Some probably don't have an IQ of 60 but they make 70 grand a year. Can They Vote?

Obviously your for taking the vote away from anyone that's not your kinda class people. Your post is absurd. Ridiculous. Ignorant. Uneducated. Merely a figment of your illiterate brain.

Lincoln


But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate -- we can not consecrate -- we can not hallow -- this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

Not and that government of the wealthy people, by the wealthy people, for the wealthy people, shall not perish from the earth.[/B]

Gimme a Break? People who pay income taxes? There are plenty of great people who have major obstacles in there life that has kept them from making a great salary. Just because someone doesnt make a lot of money doesnt make them any less of an American as you or me.

You can ramble all you want, Wildcat23. Your argument lacks any logic, intelligence, and/or continuity. Still, assuming that you may pay at least some income tax, you still get to vote. Of course, if my assumptions are wrong and you pay no income taxes, you shouldn't vote.

You need to be reminded that my premise is that those who pay no income taxes don't vote- not that those with little or no formal education don't vote. Your comprehension is lacking. As for your allegedly hard working but uneducated coal miners, I would submit that most of them, though of minimal education, pay income taxes and, thus, should have the right to vote. Lincoln, a man of humble beginnings who worked hard and became a lawyer, actually didn't pay income taxes. Of course, that was because the Sixteenth Amendment was not passed until about 50 years after his death. Of course, I'm sure you knew that.

There may be valid arguments against my proposal. However, Wildcat23 certainly hasn't been able to express any of them. Still, if he pays income taxes, he should vote.

[Deathstar 80]

Truth, I think our country has had something similar to what you've mentioned. Our country has had a "vote tax". But I think we got rid of it with the 24th amendment. The "vote tax" prevented the poor from voting in elections.

[LWC]

What level of income does a person have to be at to vote? 30,000? 40,000? 50,000?

I hope that everyone remembers that there are OTHER issues besides the economy that people vote on: education, social issues, who represents them, etc....

The amount of money you put in your purse or wallet, does not equate to your intellegence level OR how much you know about education, how much you know about who would make a good representative, etc....

I am sure that studies show that people with higher education levels make more money, and I have no problem with that, but to try to take a person's right to vote away because they are under a certain income line, is preposterous.

Remember there are people out there with high levels of education that get those college degrees and go into service work, where they choose to make less to do something they are called to or feel passionate about.

What about our military? Not everyone that fights and dies for the USA pays taxes, unless I am mistaken.

[Wildcatk23]

You can ramble all you want, Wildcat23. Your argument lacks any logic, intelligence, and/or continuity. Still, assuming that you may pay at least some income tax, you still get to vote. Of course, if my assumptions are wrong and you pay no income taxes, you shouldn't vote.

You need to be reminded that my premise is that those who pay no income taxes don't vote- not that those with little or no formal education don't vote. Your comprehension is lacking. As for your allegedly hard working but uneducated coal miners, I would submit that most of them, though of minimal education, pay income taxes and, thus, should have the right to vote. Lincoln, a man of humble beginnings who worked hard and became a lawyer, actually didn't pay income taxes. Of course, that was because the Sixteenth Amendment was not passed until about 50 years after his death. Of course, I'm sure you knew that.

There may be valid arguments against my proposal. However, Wildcat23 certainly hasn't been able to express any of them. Still, if he pays income taxes, he should vote.

You really believe yourself. Amazing. So what happens if a corporation goes under and all these big time workers dont find jobs for 2 years? Should they be allowed to vote? If hoot doesn't find a job for over 2 years can he vote?

come on man, It comes down to the wealthy voting and the poor not.

[Wildcatk23]

Taxpayers should have a say in how their taxes are spent. Everybody else should work hard to become taxpayers. Moochers are destroying this country. The earned income tax credit should be abolished and every citizen should pay at least a small amount of federal income taxes. Free loaders should not be able to vote to help themselves to other people's money.

Letting people who pay no taxes vote is like letting people walk into a bank and apply for loans and then requiring the bank to loan them whatever amount they want, interest free. Under that system, banks would go bankrupt in a hurry. Our federal government is quickly going broke for the same reason.

^ I'm not for sure where u received this input from. All i'm saying is, If someone works and pays any kind of taxes they should have the right to vote. Change the laws so they don't receive more than they pay in. I find that insane anyways.

I agree with you on the bolded by the way. Every American should pay in some form of income tax. They provide us with Security, Law, And May other things we take for granted. And In doing so we have stripped away trillions of dollars most of which we didn't deserve.

I took out a student loan for $1800 for a semester of college. I received back almost all of it and more in income taxes because i went to college. Come on.

[Truth]

You really believe yourself. Amazing. So what happens if a corporation goes under and all these big time workers dont find jobs for 2 years? Should they be allowed to vote? If hoot doesn't find a job for over 2 years can he vote?

come on man, It comes down to the wealthy voting and the poor not.

What it comes down to, Wildcat23, is those who contribute to the system vote. Those who merely take from the system don't vote. If, indeed, a corporation lays off workers and those workers don't pay any income taxes, they don't vote in any elections until they start contributing to the common good (pay taxes). In the interim, they will, I suppose, continue to take from the public coffers through entitlements (really welfare given a politically correct name) to support themselves. That is fine. However, they shouldn't vote.

there is nothing amazing about my proposal and there is nothing amazing about your lack of an intellectually valid argument against it. What remains amazing is that our elections are often decided by those who contribute nothing (although they are physically able to do so; ie: willnots). they vote not in regard to what is best for the republic but, instead, only in regard to who will give them more freebies.

[Wildcatk23]

What it comes down to, Wildcat23, is those who contribute to the system vote. Those who merely take from the system don't vote. If, indeed, a corporation lays off workers and those workers don't pay any income taxes, they don't vote in any elections until they start contributing to the common good (pay taxes). In the interim, they will, I suppose, continue to take from the public coffers through entitlements (really welfare given a politically correct name) to support themselves. That is fine. However, they shouldn't vote.

there is nothing amazing about my proposal and there is nothing amazing about your lack of an intellectually valid argument against it. What remains amazing is that our elections are often decided by those who contribute nothing (although they are physically able to do so; ie: willnots). they vote not in regard to what is best for the republic but, instead, only in regard to who will give them more freebies.

So what do we do with Senior Citizens? Hey we know u worked hard but now your old and u don't help us so u cant vote?

[Truth]

What level of income does a person have to be at to vote? 30,000? 40,000? 50,000?

I hope that everyone remembers that there are OTHER issues besides the economy that people vote on: education, social issues, who represents them, etc....

The amount of money you put in your purse or wallet, does not equate to your intellegence level OR how much you know about education, how much you know about who would make a good representative, etc....

I am sure that studies show that people with higher education levels make more money, and I have no problem with that, but to try to take a person's right to vote away because they are under a certain income line, is preposterous.
Remember there are people out there with high levels of education that get those college degrees and go into service work, where they choose to make less to do something they are called to or feel passionate about.

What about our military? Not everyone that fights and dies for the USA pays taxes, unless I am mistaken.

Good grief, LWC, how can I make it any simpler for you? Income has nothing to do with my proposal. It matters not whether you pay income taxes of $100,000.00 or $1.00, you still get to vote if you are a contributor to the common good. The class warfare, so sacred to liberals, is a moot issue.

And, by the way, college educated service workers do, on the whole, pay income taxes. They earn enough to do so regardless of their level of "passion".

Is this the best you boys can conjure up? Pitiful.

[Wildcatk23]

What level of income does a person have to be at to vote? 30,000? 40,000? 50,000?

I hope that everyone remembers that there are OTHER issues besides the economy that people vote on: education, social issues, who represents them, etc....

The amount of money you put in your purse or wallet, does not equate to your intellegence level OR how much you know about education, how much you know about who would make a good representative, etc....

I am sure that studies show that people with higher education levels make more money, and I have no problem with that, but to try to take a person's right to vote away because they are under a certain income line, is preposterous.

Remember there are people out there with high levels of education that get those college degrees and go into service work, where they choose to make less to do something they are called to or feel passionate about.

What about our military? Not everyone that fights and dies for the USA pays taxes, unless I am mistaken.

So what LWC, It Doesn't Matter. As Long as we poor folk are fighting and dyeing, there will only be educated voters. :ChairHit:

[Truth]

So what do we do with Senior Citizens? Hey we know u worked hard but now your old and u don't help us so u cant vote?

Many senior citizens pay income taxes. They should have the vote. Many senior citizens don't pay any income taxes and merely vote in accordance with who will allegedly "protect" their Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and applicable handouts. I call them "AARP Clones". They are strictly "takers" and shouldn't have the vote. The latter group did have the vote when they contributed income taxes to the common good. they were formerly contributors and, if they again become contributors, they can vote.

My proposal is not "touchy-feely". It is based upon what is best fiscally for the country as a whole. Remember, I still firmly believe in supporting the "cannots". However, they, as well as the multitudes of "willnots" shouldn't vote without making at least a nominal income tax payment.

[Truth]

So what LWC, It Doesn't Matter. As Long as we poor folk are fighting and dyeing, there will only be educated voters. :ChairHit:

You are being a bit melodramatic aren't you, Wildcat23. I learned many years ago that those who have no valid agrument always resort to emotion and drama. I would have thought that you might have learned the same truth.

You and LWC would look a bit more credible if you offered an intelligent argument. Of course, that is, most likely, not possible.

[Wildcatk23]

Many senior citizens pay income taxes. They should have the vote. Many senior citizens don't pay any income taxes and merely vote in accordance with who will allegedly "protect" their Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and applicable handouts. I call them "AARP Clones". They are strictly "takers" and shouldn't have the vote. The latter group did have the vote when they contributed income taxes to the common good. they were formerly contributors and, if they again become contributors, they can vote.

My proposal is not "touchy-feely". It is based upon what is best fiscally for the country as a whole. Remember, I still firmly believe in supporting the "cannots". However, they, as well as the multitudes of "willnots" shouldn't vote without making at least a nominal income tax payment.

So shame on someone who worked there entire life and just want to have the benefits they deserve?

You are being a bit melodramatic aren't you, Wildcat23. I learned many years ago that those who have no valid agrument always resort to emotion and drama. I would have thought that you might have learned the same truth.

You and LWC would look a bit more credible if you offered an intelligent argument. Of course, that is, most likely, not possible.

We Have offered many credible defenses to your Idea of voting. YOu just choose to disbelieve anything you think offends your opinion. If you cant look at it from both sides then you'll always think you know more than you ever do.

[LWC]

What I was saying about income levels is that a person has to reach a certain level to actually PAY taxes in correct? A person making 20,000 probably would not pay in, but a person making 40,000 would, correct?

I have still heard no intellegent debate to the fact that Deathstar pointed out about the US repealing the vote tax. Basically, the US had it before, and repealed it. To my knowledge that was something southerners used to keep freed-slaves from voting, but still they thought it was so important that they disbanded the idea with a constitutional amendment.

[Wildcatk23]

What I was saying about income levels is that a person has to reach a certain level to actually PAY taxes in correct? A person making 20,000 probably would not pay in, but a person making 40,000 would, correct?

I have still heard no intellegent debate to the fact that Deathstar pointed out about the US repealing the vote tax. Basically, the US had it before, and repealed it. To my knowledge that was something southerners used to keep freed-slaves from voting, but still they thought it was so important that they disbanded the idea with a constitutional amendment.

Obviously Truth should be in the White house. Much smarter than the men who Disbanded that Brilliant Idea.

[nky]

Flat Tax anyone? Then do away with all deductibles. That way everyone will pay their "fair" share what every that is.

[Wildcatk23]

Flat Tax anyone? Then do away with all deductibles. That way everyone will pay their "fair" share what every that is.

Like 10% of what ever u make? Straight Across? No ways around just straight?

[nky]

Like 10% of what ever u make? Straight Across? No ways around just straight?

Probably lower for lower earners. Something like 5% for under $30,000, then 7% up to $100,000, the 10% up to $250,000, then 15% above that.
You would also have to lower the corporate tax rate but make it flat as well but no more than 20% and cut all deductions/government subsidies

[Truth]

Probably lower for lower earners. Something like 5% for under $30,000, then 7% up to $100,000, the 10% up to $250,000, then 15% above that.
You would also have to lower the corporate tax rate but make it flat as well but no more than 20% and cut all deductions/government subsidies

The flat tax has merit. However, your flat tax isn't particularly flat. It is a progressive tax just as is the income tax.

I would prefer a true flat tax with the same rate applying to everyone. The "haves" still pay more than do the "have nots". In addition, I would add a federal sales tax of 1 or 2 percent. That would be a consumption tax on those who consume goods. The latter would also apply to most services other than true medical bills (no botox or enhancement exemptions).

[nky]

The flat tax has merit. However, your flat tax isn't particularly flat. It is a progressive tax just as is the income tax.

I would prefer a true flat tax with the same rate applying to everyone. The "haves" still pay more than do the "have nots". In addition, I would add a federal sales tax of 1 or 2 percent. That would be a consumption tax on those who consume goods. The latter would also apply to most services other than true medical bills (no botox or enhancement exemptions).

You know as I do a true "flat" tax has no hope but a simple stepped approach may work.
A "consumption" tax is a federal sales tax. I like the idea but what would you set it at? 1% on everything but food? or would you vary it based on the social "need" of the product? For example clothing tax at a 1% but fur coats tax at 5%. or a car that is made in USA tax at 1% but an import tax at 10%.

I would love to see Kentucky go away from an income tax and increase the state sales tax 1 or 2 percent. That way if you buy it you're adding to the state coffers and you get away from the tax loop holes that people use.