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3 of Our 4 State Champs Are PRIVATE schools.
#1
Well will this cause people to wake and see that there is a problem.The AD's voted to do something about it but our KHSAA said no.
Thoughts?
#2
This is a good thread.

IMO something definately needs to be done. Private schools have an advantage because they are allowed to recruit players for the most part.
#3
I am not a complainer or in any way winner is a winner. But when it comes to recruiting other players out of ur area for any type of sport is just flat out wrong I think the khs needs to review some rules.
#4
or enforce them
they don't want to address it because of the money made in the 4A game
#5
I just find it hard to believe that there are less than 20 (10-15 actually i think, numbers may be wrong though) private high schools with football teams yet 5 of them make to the state championship game. It really does seem fishy. I'm sure there are some privates who made it who do everything perfectly legit and just have some darn good football teams, enough said. But, somewhere there has to be some foul play.

Not to mention it's not only those 5 times.

In 1A, if NCC hadn't beat LCA, there is a good chance LCA would be celbrating a championship tonight if they had gotten past Somerset in the next round. Somerset and LCA both lost to NCC by similar margins.

In 2A, if OC had lost their state semi, it would have still been another private, DeSales, in their place tonight.

In 3A, only 2 private schools there. CovCath and LexCath. LexCath's only game they won by less than 17 points was to CovCath by 3. Very, very possible to make a case for CovCath being the 2nd best team in 3A.

In 4A, both championship teams were privates. I mean c'mon!

Just looking at those teams mentioned, there are 8 of the very few privates that participate in football, all with extremely good, championship caliber teams.

Just based off that it really seems the KHSAA should take a heads up that somewhere, something is not right.
#6
the kicker is that there are only 2 4A privates and why arnt they in the same region
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
could money be behind this
i wonder
#7
I have a question for you all.

Someone offers you a Ferrari. Loaded, free.

And at the same time someone offers you the exact same car, for anywhere between 4 & 6 thousand dollars.

Which one are you going to take?

Public schools have it all on themselves to open the districts and allow anyone, it's not the state's decision. Look at Highlands and Beechwood up here, independent school districts, can charge a reasonable tuition and take anyone they want. What makes them different from a private school? God?

I hate to say it b/c I respect everyone who has posted in this thread but Gimme a freaking break.

If you're school can not take kids from "out of district" talk to your administrators. It's their decision, no one elses. Louisville has open enrollment, anyone that lives there can go to any school they want, doesn't that give Male a huge advantage? Rolleyes

Isn't that what this country is founded on anyway, freedom. Go where you want, that should be everyone's right.

You will never tell me it is advantage to go to a private school, it costs more to go to NCC than to Northern Kentucky University and most other state schools, that right there eliminates 95% of the amount of kids that might want to go there. There is no student loan for high school, and we don't give free tuition, I assure you.

Recruit, of course we recruit, that 5% that can afford to go to our school, needs to know that that option is there, what we have to offer, and what sets us apart from Newport High School right down the street, and ladies and gents, I went there, my family has gone there, that has as little to do with sports as it possibly could.

Are all private schools on the up and up, I'm sure they're not. But you know what, don't blame all for one's transgressions, stick to your guns, force schools to abide by your rules, and enforce your rulings. For those schools such as mine, with all of our "advantages". Advantages such as not even having a baseball field, football field, track, auditorium for that matter, please, get over yourselves and your insecurity and your petty bickering and open your districts, quit your whining, and hit the weights.

Am I saying we work harder than everyone else, maybe we do, I don't know, I assure it's not b/c of some perceived advantage we have b/c we are a private school.

Newport Central CATHOLIC won it's first state football championship in 21 years tonight, and I'm on cloud 9 b/c of it. For about 15 straight years we were ousted by a school 100 students smaller than us, Beechwood, and dominated by them pretty much every one of those years, they can take a kid from Guatamala, charge them a fee and move on, what makes them any different than us?

No one will be able to answer that with a logical answer.

For those 15 years or so did you hear anyone at all in the state bitching and moaning about Beechwood being able to take anyone they wanted? No, why not? I'm asking?

This whole argument is ridiculous, come up with rules and enforce them, and then hopefully this whole issue will go away.
#8
I agree. Privates have a advantage. Period. Numbers in the end dont lie. If the KHSAA dont act on what the schools voted for then they need to disband and become privae school boosters, which basically are what they are now.
#9
And let's not forget the other champion was an Independent School system, and a lot of Independents also takes takes kids out of the county system that they deem necessary for the benefit of their programs.
#10
blackcat Wrote:This is a good thread.

IMO something definately needs to be done. Private schools have an advantage because they are allowed to recruit players for the most part.


i agree
#11
JUDGE140 Wrote:And let's not forget the other champion was an Independent School system, and a lot of Independents also takes takes kids out of the county system that they deem necessary for the benefit of their programs.

Russell is only an Independent because we seperated ourselves from the Greenup Co. School board. We draw from Flatwoods and Russell only. Students outside of our area have to pay tuition since they do not live in our school district and do not contribute to our tax base. Plus they have to get permission to even come to Russell. But we do not recruit.
#12
A winner is a winner but somethin does need to be done.
#13
Midee1 Wrote:Russell is only an Independent because we seperated ourselves from the Greenup Co. School board. We draw from Flatwoods and Russell only. Students outside of our area have to pay tuition since they do not live in our school district and do not contribute to our tax base. Plus they have to get permission to even come to Russell. But we do not recruit.
Ok so since no one else will atempt to answer my questions, b/c I am right, I will ask you? What makes you any different from a private school then? Every single player on NCC's football team this year is from NKY. What's the difference? We charge tuition to everyone that comes there, techinically wouldn't you say you have an advantage over a private school then, b/c you can take kids from anywhere and don't even have to charge the kids that live in your area, every kid if he lives a block or 100 miles from NCC has to pay 5000 dollars a year.

So since you say you don't recruit, if all theprivate schools said that you'd just believe them right?

The argument on the publics side is so weak it's sad.
#14
98NCCalum Wrote:Ok so since no one else will atempt to answer my questions, b/c I am right, I will ask you? What makes you any different from a private school then? Every single player on NCC's football team this year is from NKY. What's the difference? We charge tuition to everyone that comes there, techinically wouldn't you say you have an advantage over a private school then, b/c you can take kids from anywhere and don't even have to charge the kids that live in your area, every kid if he lives a block or 100 miles from NCC has to pay 5000 dollars a year.

So since you say you don't recruit, if all theprivate schools said that you'd just believe them right?

The argument on the publics side is so weak it's sad.

I'm sure not every private school recruits illegally, on the same token, I know it does happen. 98 you will have to agree with me on that, however there is something in your post that jumped out at me while I read it.....your words were "Every single player on NCC's team THIS YEAR is from NKY." With statements like that, surely you can understand how people make the conclusion that illegal recruiting is rampant, regardless of whether it is or not.
#15
I am completely neutral here--but--I have a question--and I would love to hear a few answers to it:

2004: 3 out of the 4 schools that won football state championships were public schools. Did anyone say that something needed to be done about the public schools? (Also--if you look back at the past few years--I think that you will find the same number of public football schools won state championships).

In order to truly evaluate a problem---you need to look at everything involved. You can't just look at football and say that there is an issue. At the very LEAST--football is not a great example to use historically.
#16
Ok volleyball championships
public schools 0
private 18
#17
For years the school system in Russell and any other independent school has always been known to recurit. Yell you say they charge a fee to go to that school but they give "spiffs" or breaks to kids who they really want to be there, such as offering there parents good paying jobs, or free houseing just to send thier kid to play at thier school.
Midee1 Wrote:Russell is only an Independent because we seperated ourselves from the Greenup Co. School board. We draw from Flatwoods and Russell only. Students outside of our area have to pay tuition since they do not live in our school district and do not contribute to our tax base. Plus they have to get permission to even come to Russell. But we do not recruit.
#18
All State Championship combined in all sports since regulation by the KHSAA excluding sports that have been discontinued (Rifle Marksmanship, Boys' Gymnastics, Girls' Gymnastics, Girls' Fencing, and Boys' Fencing) and excluding any championships won yet this school year:

Publics - 922 (70.06%)
Privates - 394 (29.94%)
Total - 1316

Public Schools that compete in any athletics under the KHSAA- 239 (83.86%)
Private Schools that compete in any athletics under the KHSAA- 46 (16.14%)
Total - 285

List of Private Schools that compete in athletics under the KHSAA:
Assumption
Beth Haven
Bethlehem
Bishop Brossart
Calvary Christian
Christian Academy (Louisville)
Chrisitan Fellowship
Community Christian (Paducah)
Covington Catholic
Covington Latin
David School
DeSales
Evangel Christian
Heritage
Holy Cross (Covington)
Holy Cross (Louisville)
June Buchanan
Kentucky Country Day
Lexington Catholic
Lexington Christian Acadmey
Louisville Collegiate
Mercy
Millersburg Military Academy
Newport Central Catholic
Notre Dame
Oneida Baptist Institute
Owensboro Catholic
Piarist
Portland Christian
Presentation
Red Bird
Riverside Christian
Rose Hill Christian
Sacred Heart
Sayre
St Francis
St Henry
St. Mary
St. Patrick
St. Xavier
Trinity (Louisville)
Trinity (Whitesville)
University Heights
Villa Madonna
Walden
Whitefield Acadmey

If any of this information is wrong, please let me know. I tried to take the time to make sure it was all correct, but I did do this quickly, so any correction that may be needed would be greatly appreciated.

Also, in case anyone is wondering, I will be breaking down the numbers for each individual sport as opposed to the number of private/public schools that compete in each as shown above for the totals but please give me some time for these as they will need it.
#19
Your info is close to being if not correct.
However
Last year
30 champions crowned
17 private
13 public
now i am no brainic but if 17 championships went to a group of 46
and 13 went to a group of 239 then i would say that the figure form the 60's really are not relavant to today.
And that was the issue.
you know I have asked a couple of questions about why this came about
If the KHSAA began to look around and see ball players who live out of districts, out of city limits playing then we see why this has become such a hotbed issue
Also Fort Cambell and Fort Knox were placed in with the private schools but were removed from the list becasue they are classified as F1 schools
#20
That was a great post tomcat.
can you help me witha question Name the last single A school to win the sweet 16 that was not a independent or a private school.
I have been told Anderson co.(1976) but they have a enrollment of 600
Erlington won it in 67 but i cant find any info on them
thanks
#21
Here is the list of champions as far back as I could find it anywhere. I will go back and try to find out which one was the last non independent public school to win it.

BOYS' BASKETBALL

1918 Lexington

1919 Lexington

1920 Lexington

1921 Manual

1922 Lexington

1923 Manual

1924 Lexington

1925 Manual

1926 St. Xavier

1927 Millersburg Military Institute

1928 Ashland

1929 Heath

1930 Corinth

1931 Manual

1932 Hazard

1933 Ashland

1934 Ashland

1935 St. Xavier

1936 Corbin

1937 Midway

1938 Sharpe

1939 Brooksville

1940 Hazel Green

1941 Inez

1942 Lexington Lafayette

1943 Hindman

1944 Harlan

1945 Male

1946 Breckinridge Training

1947 Maysville

1948 Brewers

1949 Owensboro

1950 Lexington Lafayette

1951 Clark County

1952 Cuba

1953 Lexington Lafayette

1954 Inez

1955 Hazard

1956 Carr Creek

1957 Lexington Lafayette

1958 St. Xavier

1959 North Marshall

1960 Flaget

1961 Ashland

1962 St. Xavier

1963 Seneca

1964 Seneca

1965 Breckinridge County

1966 Shelby County

1967 Earlington

1968 Glasgow

1969 Central

1970 Male

1971 Male

1972 Owensboro

1973 Shawnee

1974 Central

1975 Male

1976 Edmonson County

1977 Ballard

1978 Shelby County

1979 Lafayette

1980 Owensboro

1981 Simon Kenton

1982 Laurel County

1983 Lexington Henry Clay

1984 Logan County

1985 Hopkinsville

1986 Pulaski County

1987 Clay County

1988 Ballard

1989 Pleasure Ridge Park

1990 Fairdale

1991 Fairdale

1992 University Heights

1993 Marion County

1994 Fairdale

1995 Breckinridge County

1996 Paintsville

1997 Eastern

1998 Scott County

1999 Ballard

2000 Elizabethtown

2001 Lexington Lafayette

2002 Lexington Catholic

2003 Mason County

2004 Warren Central

2005 South Laurel
#22
no independent single
not member of all a
those go by different numbers
#23
1976 Edmonson County

This looks like the first one to have an actual chance although they are AA now.

1967 Earlington

This is possible. There is no longer a high school there. The only thing I could find was Earlington Elementary School which is near the Madisonville/Hopkinsville area. I have no info on this school.
#24
lexington hearld had an article on how many private schools champs there had been in the last 10 and 15 years
I think we may be surprised
#25
The last 10 years was a bonus feature I was going to add to each individual sport breakdown so everyone will be able to see it once I start getting the information done. I'm being lazy right now watching ESPN
#26
So why has no one answered the questions I asked in my first post?
Someone please rationally answer all of my questions fro my first post, please!
I can't wait to see.
#27
I'll recap them for everyone so it will be easier for you.
#28
I'll just repost it, read it, and aswer all of my questions....

I have a question for you all.

Someone offers you a Ferrari. Loaded, free.

And at the same time someone offers you the exact same car, for anywhere between 4 & 6 thousand dollars.

Which one are you going to take?

Public schools have it all on themselves to open the districts and allow anyone, it's not the state's decision. Look at Highlands and Beechwood up here, independent school districts, can charge a reasonable tuition and take anyone they want. What makes them different from a private school? God?

I hate to say it b/c I respect everyone who has posted in this thread but Gimme a freaking break.

If you're school can not take kids from "out of district" talk to your administrators. It's their decision, no one elses. Louisville has open enrollment, anyone that lives there can go to any school they want, doesn't that give Male a huge advantage? Rolleyes

Isn't that what this country is founded on anyway, freedom. Go where you want, that should be everyone's right.

You will never tell me it is advantage to go to a private school, it costs more to go to NCC than to Northern Kentucky University and most other state schools, that right there eliminates 95% of the amount of kids that might want to go there. There is no student loan for high school, and we don't give free tuition, I assure you.

Recruit, of course we recruit, that 5% that can afford to go to our school, needs to know that that option is there, what we have to offer, and what sets us apart from Newport High School right down the street, and ladies and gents, I went there, my family has gone there, that has as little to do with sports as it possibly could.

Are all private schools on the up and up, I'm sure they're not. But you know what, don't blame all for one's transgressions, stick to your guns, force schools to abide by your rules, and enforce your rulings. For those schools such as mine, with all of our "advantages". Advantages such as not even having a baseball field, football field, track, auditorium for that matter, please, get over yourselves and your insecurity and your petty bickering and open your districts, quit your whining, and hit the weights.

Am I saying we work harder than everyone else, maybe we do, I don't know, I assure it's not b/c of some perceived advantage we have b/c we are a private school.

Newport Central CATHOLIC won it's first state football championship in 21 years tonight, and I'm on cloud 9 b/c of it. For about 15 straight years we were ousted by a school 100 students smaller than us, Beechwood, and dominated by them pretty much every one of those years, they can take a kid from Guatamala, charge them a fee and move on, what makes them any different than us?

No one will be able to answer that with a logical answer.

For those 15 years or so did you hear anyone at all in the state bitching and moaning about Beechwood being able to take anyone they wanted? No, why not? I'm asking?

This whole argument is ridiculous, come up with rules and enforce them, and then hopefully this whole issue will go away.
#29
MR.INCREDIBLE Wrote:I'm sure not every private school recruits illegally, on the same token, I know it does happen. 98 you will have to agree with me on that, however there is something in your post that jumped out at me while I read it.....your words were "Every single player on NCC's team THIS YEAR is from NKY." With statements like that, surely you can understand how people make the conclusion that illegal recruiting is rampant, regardless of whether it is or not.
To answer your question.

There have been maybe, and by maybe I am guessing, but it is a very educated guess that in the last 10 years there may have been 3 or possibly 4 players on NCC's team that did not live in NKY.

And of those 3 or 4, I think 1 actually saw the field.
#30
98NCCalum Wrote:So why has no one answered the questions I asked in my first post?
Someone please rationally answer all of my questions fro my first post, please!
I can't wait to see.

Don't worry 98. I'm in the process of extensive research over the next few days to try to settle this debate once and for all (or atleast give each side plenty of fire power to play with :big grin: .) Since I started my research I've taken a neutral stand until I can be positive of all the facts. I'm not sure which way it will start to turn out yet but it should look rather impressive as a whole whether it help leads to a decision or not (as well as very organized.) Until then :yesno:

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