[MonsterMan]

Somewhat, but I think you may be forgetting that Tommy came into the job just one season removed from the Starns catastrophe year. That was the most embarassing year in the history of Johnson Central basketball, and in my mind the lowest point of the Central program.

I think the biggest problem with Johnson Central basketball is the seemingly endless pipeline of player head cases that a head coach has to deal with. Where it originates and what the solution is, I cant answer that one, but every year it's just another new roster full of attitude problems. Same problem, just new faces. It just never ends. I think a lot of the problem is, is it's just a byproduct of what the game has become. What was once a team sport, has become a sport of selfish street ball prima donnas. This is not a problem that started when Tommy took the job. It existed when Johnny Ray Turner, Les Trimble, and Mark Starnes all were at the helm as well. I'll probably get bashed for this one, but I''ve been around a long long time. It's not fair that Tommy be bashed for something that has existed within the program for a long long time. Here folks is the problem. Fix that,(whatever that solution may be) if you want a successful program.

This is a great post and I agree with you, players attitude is a problem with all programs. But on the other side, that is what the head coach gets paid to do, handle these issues. I think alot of it starts at the lower levels as young players are"annointed" to be good and let go and out of hand when they are young. They either get their way or quit. A good coach will get a hold of this problem and correct it or find players who will do as he says. JC is big and this should not be an issue. I do agree if this problem is not corrected it is just going to be a merry go round of coachs in the future.

[Mr.Kimball]

This is a great post and I agree with you, players attitude is a problem with all programs. But on the other side, that is what the head coach gets paid to do, handle these issues. I think alot of it starts at the lower levels as young players are"annointed" to be good and let go and out of hand when they are young. They either get their way or quit. A good coach will get a hold of this problem and correct it or find players who will do as he says. JC is big and this should not be an issue. I do agree if this problem is not corrected it is just going to be a merry go round of coachs in the future.

Tell ya what I'll do MM. I'll go out on a limb and predict that when it's all said and done, that the current middle school talent bumper crop will set new standards as far as what "attitude" will be defined as being. Just wait and see, if this wont be a runaway train that's just beginning to build up steam. I can see this one acomin.

[MonsterMan]

Tell ya what I'll do MM. I'll go out on a limb and predict that when it's all said and done, that the current middle school talent bumper crop will set new standards as far as what "attitude" will be defined as being. Just wait and see, if this wont be a runaway train that's just beginning to build up steam. I can see this one acomin.

From what I hear you are right. This needs to be handled now. The kids need to know what it means to be an Ealge and what is expected of them at an early age. If they are not willing to accept this they can quit or transfer. In a system as big as JC there has to be more talented kids who are willing to conform.

[Mr.Kimball]

From what I hear you are right. This needs to be handled now. The kids need to know what it means to be an Ealge and what is expected of them at an early age. If they are not willing to accept this they can quit or transfer. In a system as big as JC there has to be more talented kids who are willing to conform.

Unfortunately kids are sometimes pawns to massive egos. In this particular case, the "epicenter" of the current and future problems will be the parent and grandparent handlers that have been hypocrits and self serving "Eagles" to begin with. Loyalty and TEAM has never ever been an issue with this clan. Heck, sometimes they even figured that being an Eagle was not the way to go, and became something else. Back and forth, back and forth. Can you say good riddance to this bag of nuts, before it blisters any further?

[EYESPYJC]

Somewhat, but I think you may be forgetting that Tommy came into the job just one season removed from the Starns catastrophe year. That was the most embarassing year in the history of Johnson Central basketball, and in my mind the lowest point of the Central program.

I think the biggest problem with Johnson Central basketball is the seemingly endless pipeline of player head cases that a head coach has to deal with. Where it originates and what the solution is, I cant answer that one, but every year it's just another new roster full of attitude problems. Same problem, just new faces. It just never ends. I think a lot of the problem is, is it's just a byproduct of what the game has become. What was once a team sport, has become a sport of selfish street ball prima donnas. This is not a problem that started when Tommy took the job. It existed when Johnny Ray Turner, Les Trimble, and Mark Starnes all were at the helm as well. I'll probably get bashed for this one, but I''ve been around a long long time. It's not fair that Tommy be bashed for something that has existed within the program for a long long time. Here folks is the problem. Fix that,(whatever that solution may be) if you want a successful program.

Does this only apply to the basketball program ?? Isn't there some head cases within the other programs as well ...but yet they seem to be ok ? I think Coach M might be one of those that seemed to think his style of play was great and in all reality he was out of control as well. Maybe this is why the program suffers because he coaches a team the way he played the game himself ??? I don't really care either way but seems to me that street ball is the way to go since he has been handed his position.

[Mr.Kimball]

Does this only apply to the basketball program ?? Isn't there some head cases within the other programs as well ...but yet they seem to be ok ? I think Coach M might be one of those that seemed to think his style of play was great and in all reality he was out of control as well. Maybe this is why the program suffers because he coaches a team the way he played the game himself ??? I don't really care either way but seems to me that street ball is the way to go since he has been handed his position.

I guess if one wanted to assasinate him over player behavior and hold him accountable one could be justified, but like I said, you have to throw all of his immediate predecessors in the same boat if your gonna dish on him. Cant argue with that whatsoever if that's the way you classify it. However I will totally disagree with that assertion of him as a player. The Tommy that I saw play for 4 years was about as classy as they come. Cant say that about all of his team mates, but I for sure can of Tommy. His behavior was never, ever at any time out of control in any way, shape, form, or fashion.

[Ring'Em Up]

Unfortunately kids are sometimes pawns to massive egos. In this particular case, the "epicenter" of the current and future problems will be the parent and grandparent handlers that have been hypocrits and self serving "Eagles" to begin with. Loyalty and TEAM has never ever been an issue with this clan. Heck, sometimes they even figured that being an Eagle was not the way to go, and became something else. Back and forth, back and forth. Can you say good riddance to this bag of nuts, before it blisters any further?

:yikes:

[THOMCAT]

True success will occur when individuals realize that the teams success is more important than their individual accolades. People often question kids attitudes and their on court actions. I challenge people to take some time to view the attitudes and sideline actions of a lot of coaches (not all). We continually hear horror stories of parents that make threats that if certain things do not occur they will go to school administrators, the school board or God forbid take their kids elsewhere. Sometimes I feel we would be better off if we said "take your kid home or somewhere else, we don't care".

[OutsideLogic]

There is one thing that you need to remember too. Coach M doesn't have any say so on any phase of the basketball program until the kids get to high school. He absolutely has no say so at the middle school level. That is part of the big problem, he needs complete control of the program from top to the bottom. That is the reason that Coach R was so successful across the creek. He had complete control of the program from the ground up. Now when the administration decides to help Coach M in that way then he will be able to get a handle on some of the problems.

[TIGERTIME]

We are starting to see this. The middle school has two 8th grade teams and the 7th grade has two teams this year. They have 10 kids per team and Coach Shepherd coaches a 7th grade team and an 8th grade team and Coach Fairchild coaches a 7th grade team and an 8th grade team. This gives 40 kids a chance to play.

I think this spells disaster for JC. More parents thinking their little Johnny can play. I see nothing but problems coming from this. Pick your best and play your best. Satisfying everyone will lead to big trouble. IMO

[MonsterMan]

I think this spells disaster for JC. More parents thinking their little Johnny can play. I see nothing but problems coming from this. Pick your best and play your best. Satisfying everyone will lead to big trouble. IMO

I disagree with this. If you have numbers let them all play. Young men grow alot around the middle school age and it is impossable to pick who will be good. The stars of the middle school more times than not do not prove themselves at the high school level. We have had great teams at the middle school level who have not transitioned to the high school level. Keep them playing, growing and developing and let the high school coach pick who he wants. Nothing wrong with having numbers to pick from!

[beezwaxnoneofyours]

I agree that if you can have 2 teams them let them play, some kids have not developed yet and others will get no better. All the blame cannot go on the coaches at JC. There are so many rules that they have to follow that most coaches don't face. Cody Parker in 8th grade could have played at least at the JV level but that was stopped and not by the coaches. 6th graders cannot play 7th grade, 7th graders can't play 8th grade and 8th grade cannot play high school. How many other schools have this rule? This rule makes the older kids believe that it is their right to play ahead of younger kids whether or not that they are good enough, have bad attitudes or any other reason. If you bench players or run someone off good luck having a job next year. So, don't put all the blame on the coaches until they make all the decisions.

[cardfanbball]

MC 's freshman pg is very good! He was one of the best middle school players that I saw last year!

[PaintsvilleTigerfan]

MC 's freshman pg is very good! He was one of the best middle school players that I saw last year!

He is one of the best ballhandlers I have seen in a while.

[baseline Jumper]

Mr Kimball I think you are correct. The problem is not the coach. I thought Starns did a great job there he took a team to the state tournament. The thing he didnt do was give in to the outside influences that I believe are the root of the problem with that BB program. Too many people telling the coach who should play and who shouldnt. Too many people telling these kids they are the greatest thing on earth from the time they are in the 5th and 6th grade instead of making them continue to work and improve there game. Starns was not going to put up with that and they ran him out of town one year removed from a trip to Rupp. Thats the problem, the solution is a coach with some backbone and an administration that will back him up when parents start calling complaining about playing time.

[EYESPYJC]

Mr Kimball I think you are correct. The problem is not the coach. I thought Starns did a great job there he took a team to the state tournament. The thing he didnt do was give in to the outside influences that I believe are the root of the problem with that BB program. Too many people telling the coach who should play and who shouldnt. Too many people telling these kids they are the greatest thing on earth from the time they are in the 5th and 6th grade instead of making them continue to work and improve there game. Starns was not going to put up with that and they ran him out of town one year removed from a trip to Rupp. Thats the problem, the solution is a coach with some backbone and an administration that will back him up when parents start calling complaining about playing time.

I am not sure you clearly understood Kimballs post regarding Coach Starns. I took it that he was not satisfied with his presence ?? or abilities as a coach.I will agree with most your post but I feel that there is more inside influences that are the root of the problem, than outside. Coach Starns was on a string more than you might know. Maybe he was let go for not giving in ?? I think if JC would hire a coach for his knowledge and abilities, with no political strings attached that demanded respect from his players, while continually pushing players to strive for excellence, Is there for the good of the sport instead the title of coach, Would display a concern for the good of the program including parent and administration input, however be firm that I was hired for the position and entrusted to be sucessful and display professionalism in his decisions, be ready for the insults and gripes and address each with facts not trying to be the MAN, would be the way to go. JC doesn't need any more arrogant backbones, puppets or coaches that feel the need for the title. Maybe someday someone will be allowed to infiltrate and show us that there is still some hope and pride at JC, and bring back what once was a great program.