[MSU Eagle]

MSU Eagle,

Actually, no.

It's a belief that kids are being hypocritical in their public humbleness to God.

Let me make it simple for you: If you are ONLY doing the point to the sky routine after burning someone for a TD - and not after a pick, forced fumble, blocked kick, big block, long gain, pass breakup, etc. - then you are NOT being humble with your "sudden" motivation to praise Him. It's superficial.

Throw the flag.

We're lucky that in Kentucky officials are less inclined to do so. But by the word of the rule in Washington, the kid deserved a flag ... whether his praise was real or just for show.

I didn't realize God could/should only be praised after a TD and no other time ... where is that in the bible, pray tell?

I've said it numerous times on here, and I'll say it all again:

It's in the rules, so the ref has to throw the flag, no argument there. However, it is a rule I would like to see changed.

And you don't know the kid's heart. Just because he doesn't point to the sky after a fumble doesn't mean he isn't praising Him. There are other ways of praise. We are told to live our lives as a praise to God. A Christian will praise God continuously with their lives, so by the way he carries himself, maybe some things he says to teammates, etc. are other ways he can praise God after a fumble. Pointing to the sky is just one way he likes to do it, and he felt led to do that after the TD. Sure, if he carries it on and on, then it can be for attention. But a short point to the sky to say "Thank you God!" is humble. The kid could celebrate what the world would tell him was all him and his ability, and that God had nothing to do with it.

[CandyKane]

Rules are rules, so I guess they should be followed, but it seems anymore players are penalized for just about anything. What player, or team for that matter isn't going to celebrate after scoring?

[Poseidon]

And the loved one got remembered ONLY after a TD? How coincidental.

Like Hoot Gibson said, how come all of these praiseworthy and humble kids "just happen" to do so ONLY after TDs? It can't be that coincidental THAT many times. No way. No how.

It's a trend that started with NFL/college players and has filtered down. You don't have to draw attention to yourself to praise him or make the TD seem humble.

If you're going to perform this routine after a TD, you should be doing it when you fumble, get burned deep by a WR, miss a kick or get lit up as well.

But it NEVER happens. Watch a game - NFL, ncaa, prep, whatever - and see how many times you see the point to the sky after a TD compared to the 90 percent of the game that DIDN'T involve TDs. It's a startling statistic.

It's not just football. I've seen it with kids scoring goals in soccer, touching home plate after home runs in baseball and hitting clutch free throws in basketball.

But not once after they strike out, miss the soccer goal completely or brick a free throw? I guess they forget to praise God every single one of those times too?

God doesn't care if you score a TD or fumble the ball. And you shouldn't act like he deserves a public point-to-the-sky praise ONLY when you score a TD, either.

How do you know they only acknowledge their God or family member after a TD? I agree that most people use religion when good things happen or really bad things happen, but that is their right to use it whenever they want. At least they are sharing the glory and thanking their God rather than hiding behind political correctness. What you think is right or wrong is your opinion, it is not universally right, or wrong. It sounds as if you are trying to shove your opinion down people's throat as if it is universally right, which threre is no universal right or wrong opinion. I understand that if the rules say that if they point to the sky or nod to the sky it is a penalty, the officials have to throw the flag.

[MSU Eagle]

How do you know they only acknowledge their God or family member after a TD? I agree that most people use religion when good things happen or really bad things happen, but that is their right to use it whenever they want. At least they are sharing the glory and thanking their God rather than hiding behind political correctness. What you think is right or wrong is your opinion, it is not universally right, or wrong. It sounds as if you are trying to shove your opinion down people's throat as if it is universally right, which threre is no universal right or wrong opinion. I understand that if the rules say that if they point to the sky or nod to the sky it is a penalty, the officials have to throw the flag.

:Thumbs:

[cksportsfan]

TheBrahmaBull,

That's the thing.

All we can do is assume.

But refs don't care. If you throat slash, diamond cutter, wave the no-no finger, shush em or yes - even point to the heavens because the almighty thought it was important you scored in a game in front of a bunch of paying folks - throw the flag.

When did giving the ball back to the ref, or taking it back to the sideline (the kicking ball is different from the passing one) and celebrating on the sideline become illegal.

Maybe I'm old school (I'm younger than 30), but the having to make some sort of gesture after touchdowns needs to stop. That's how this stuff has escalated in the first place.

[OffTheHook]

It's no different than his team mates jumping up and down and giving him high fives after he scores. It's still a celebration and those aren't hardly ever flagged. He wasn't show boating or taunting. IMO, just poor judgement on the Ref's behalf. RULES or NOT. If Rules are your argument, than they should play with their mouths shut and NO cheering or high fives or hand shakes after nice plays. I mean they jump up and down like a bunch of wild monkeys after a fumble recovery or a kick off return. PLEASE....BAD FLAG!

[OffensiveGuru]

Officiating is terrible most of the time. Penalizing kids for having success and being excited about it is ridiculous. I am not talking about T.O. or Ochocinco celebrations, but high fiving and acknowledging the maker with a nod or an index finger SHOULD be part of the game.

[charlie22]

I have not noticed anybody trying to make this a "political" issue. The opinion that raising one's finger to the skies after torching an opponent on a football field for a touchdown is an act to draw attention to one's self is just as valid as the opinion that such an act is somehow "humble." I am as sure that some players act in such a way out of a sincere desire to give thanks to God and I am that other players do so to bask in the personal glory that comes with making a big play for a few more seconds. IMO, a player who scores should be looking for his teammates to congratulate them.

As I said in my first post, I think that it is entirely appropriate for Christians (or players of other faiths) to give God credit for making individual and team athletic accomplishments possible during media interviews. Raising a finger skyward and mumbling a few words that nobody else in the stadium can hear does nothing to glorify God, IMO - but you are certainly entitled to your own opinion on the subject.

As for the referee's flag, I think that if the rule compelled him to throw it, then the rule should be changed. Brief celebrations of any big play should not be discouraged, whether the celebration is religious in nature or not - although taunting and rehearsed dance moves should always draw a flag.

The problem Hoot with allowing brief, unrehearsed celebrations is that it requires interpretations by the refs. What's brief and what's too long; what's rehearsed and what's unrehearsed? If a point to the Lord is okay, is an athiestic gesture, if there is one, also okay?

Maybe it's like pornography-you know it when you see it. But refs have a hard enough time interpreting the well drafted playing rules. I don't want them to have to interpret endzone celebrations too. This thread proves the difficulty and arbitrariness that would go with such interpretations. I'm in favor of flagging all celebrations on the field and in the endzones. Hand the ball to the ref-go to the sideline and do what you want. If a kid has to do it in the end zone, then he's not doing it for the right reasons in my opinion.

I love the fact that the kid was thanking the Lord; just disagree with where it occured. I don't like any endzone celebration of any type. I can't stand the taunting that goes on in the colleges and pros, and hope that it never is accepted on the high school level. I don't like players that turn to the stands and ask them to cheer (it's like the player is saying: I'm not motivated enough personally to play the next play hard so you'll have to cheer for me to get me motivated). I don't like defensive players that hoop and holler when they make a big tackle. I'm a Bear Bryant follower (with a twist): act like you've been there before (and you'll be there again soon).

I know a lot of people claim that football is an emotional game. Never thought that way. Football is an execution and discipline game. Emotions on the field are often counter productive to execution and discipline. You often hear coaches of losing teams refer to teams that just beat them as "playing like machines". The ultimate compliment in my opinion. Machines don't have emotions. They just have a bunch of parts that each methodically do their "job" over and over again. Just my outlook on the game; others are free to differ.

[Hoot Gibson]

The problem Hoot with allowing brief, unrehearsed celebrations is that it requires interpretations by the refs. What's brief and what's too long; what's rehearsed and what's unrehearsed? If a point to the Lord is okay, is an athiestic gesture, if there is one, also okay?

Maybe it's like pornography-you know it when you see it. But refs have a hard enough time interpreting the well drafted playing rules. I don't want them to have to interpret endzone celebrations too. This thread proves the difficulty and arbitrariness that would go with such interpretations. I'm in favor of flagging all celebrations on the field and in the endzones. Hand the ball to the ref-go to the sideline and do what you want. If a kid has to do it in the end zone, then he's not doing it for the right reasons in my opinion.

I love the fact that the kid was thanking the Lord; just disagree with where it occured. I don't like any endzone celebration of any type. I can't stand the taunting that goes on in the colleges and pros, and hope that it never is accepted on the high school level. I don't like players that turn to the stands and ask them to cheer (it's like the player is saying: I'm not motivated enough personally to play the next play hard so you'll have to cheer for me to get me motivated). I don't like defensive players that hoop and holler when they make a big tackle. I'm a Bear Bryant follower (with a twist): act like you've been there before (and you'll be there again soon).

I know a lot of people claim that football is an emotional game. Never thought that way. Football is an execution and discipline game. Emotions on the field are often counter productive to execution and discipline. You often hear coaches of losing teams refer to teams that just beat them as "playing like machines". The ultimate compliment in my opinion. Machines don't have emotions. They just have a bunch of parts that each methodically do their "job" over and over again. Just my outlook on the game; others are free to differ.

You make some good points, Charlie. Maybe the rule against celebrations should call for one penalty-free warning followed by penalties for serial violations. It is a shame that NFL abuses have led to excesses on the high school level that makes a rule necessary at all. The game would be better today if the NFL had lowered the boom on the choreographed dances and spikes a few years ago when they first began.