[Old School]

Global climate cycles of warming and cooling have been a natural phenomena for hundreds of thousands of years, and it is unlikely that these that these cycles will stop in the near future.

As Jane Francis a British Scientist said "What we should do is be more aware of the the fact that the climate is changing and we should be ready to adapt to the change.

The case for a "greenhouse problem" is made by environmentalist, news anchors and special interest groups who make inaccurate and misleading statements about global warming and climate change. Even though people may be skeptical of such rhetoric initially, after awhile people start believing it must be true because we hear it so often.

Here's a few quotes:
Scientists who want to attract attention to themselves, who want to attract great funding to themselves, have to (find a) way to scare the public....and this you can achieve only by making things bigger and more dangerous than they really are."
Petr Cnycel (Proffessor of Physics and Atmospheric Science Halifax, Nova Scotia)

"We have to offer up scary scenarios make simplified, dramatic statements, and make little mention of any doubts we may have. Each of us has to decide what the right balance is between being effective and being honest." Stephen Schneider (Leading Advocate of the Global Warming Theory) (in a interview for DiscoverMAgazine, Oct. 1989)

Here is a interesting site concerning Global Warming with references.
http://mysite.verizon.net/mhieb/WVFossil...hor2150539

[thecavemaster]

Global climate cycles of warming and cooling have been a natural phenomena for hundreds of thousands of years, and it is unlikely that these that these cycles will stop in the near future.

As Jane Francis a British Scientist said "What we should do is be more aware of the the fact that the climate is changing and we should be ready to adapt to the change.

The case for a "greenhouse problem" is made by environmentalist, news anchors and special interest groups who make inaccurate and misleading statements about global warming and climate change. Even though people may be skeptical of such rhetoric initially, after awhile people start believing it must be true because we hear it so often.

Here's a few quotes:
Scientists who want to attract attention to themselves, who want to attract great funding to themselves, have to (find a) way to scare the public....and this you can achieve only by making things bigger and more dangerous than they really are."
Petr Cnycel (Proffessor of Physics and Atmospheric Science Halifax, Nova Scotia)

"We have to offer up scary scenarios make simplified, dramatic statements, and make little mention of any doubts we may have. Each of us has to decide what the right balance is between being effective and being honest." Stephen Schneider (Leading Advocate of the Global Warming Theory) (in a interview for DiscoverMAgazine, Oct. 1989)

Here is a interesting site concerning Global Warming with references.
http://mysite.verizon.net/mhieb/WVFossil...hor2150539

For quite some time, researchers and cognitive dissonants
alike said that linking smoking to cancer was nothing more
than scare tactics, scary scenarios, etc. I don't know
a lot about scenarios, but I know this: crowded bars trap
smoke...I've got to believe that millions of cars spewing
smoke into the atmosphere is not some benign, "of no real
effect" matter...the industrial revolution has not been
kind to the environment...ever fished in an acidified lake?
Nope...ain't no life there...believe as you will (and that's
what we do)...but common sense tells us this fossil fuel
party does NOT come without a cost...

[FOX SPORTS]

For quite some time, researchers and cognitive dissonants
alike said that linking smoking to cancer was nothing more
than scare tactics, scary scenarios, etc. I don't know
a lot about scenarios, but I know this: crowded bars trap
smoke...I've got to believe that millions of cars spewing
smoke into the atmosphere is not some benign, "of no real
effect" matter...the industrial revolution has not been
kind to the environment...ever fished in an acidified lake?
Nope...ain't no life there...believe as you will (and that's
what we do)...but common sense tells us this fossil fuel
party does NOT come without a cost...

I read somewhere that the "fossil fuel party" causes less damage and CO2 production than naturally occurring volcanic activity.

[thecavemaster]

I read somewhere that the "fossil fuel party" causes less damage and CO2 production than naturally occurring volcanic activity.

Yes, yes volcanic activity...that's the cause of acidified lakes
killing all life, that's what causes slurry ponds that
spill into streams, that's what causes clear cutting the rain
forests, that's the reason there's a hole in the ozone
layer...it's a vast conspiracy cooked up by enviromental
wackos and feminazis to keep Rush Limbaugh from using immigrants
to clean his house and buy his pills, a vast network of lies
to keep people from buying the Ford ExpoMonster and the Hummer... yes, yes volcanic activity...ah, all our worries
are solved...those damn volcanoes...

[FOX SPORTS]

...it's a vast conspiracy cooked up by enviromental
wackos and feminazis to keep Rush Limbaugh from using immigrants
to clean his house and buy his pills,...

Why does everyone( on the left) bring up Rush Limbaugh whenever they want to make a statement???
I don't listen to Rush Limbaugh and he certainly does not speak for me.

BTW...What does cause the majority of "acidified lakes"??? annd "slurry" ponds or in other words, waste water resevoirs??

Cavemaster, love the sarcasm.
You seem to be very good at it when someone asks a question or tries to have a mature discussion.

[thecavemaster]

Why does everyone( on the left) bring up Rush Limbaugh whenever they want to make a statement???
I don't listen to Rush Limbaugh and he certainly does not speak for me.

BTW...What does cause the majority of "acidified lakes"??? annd "slurry" ponds or in other words, waste water resevoirs??

Cavemaster, love the sarcasm.
You seem to be very good at it when someone asks a question or tries to have a mature discussion.

Of course, no one admits to loving money or being a ditto
head... I do not think acidified lakes are caused
by waste water resevoirs ("acid rain")...also, slurry ponds
are created by coal companies, which mine coal, which
is a fossil, which is burned to make fuel... Also,
in Oxford style debate, sarcasm is a valuable tool...and
often used by mature debaters. At any rate, we can
agree to disagree on the volcanic activity thing. Throw
me a lifeline when the glaciers melt...

[FOX SPORTS]

Of course, no one admits to loving money or being a ditto
head... I do not think acidified lakes are caused
by waste water resevoirs ("acid rain")...also, slurry ponds
are created by coal companies, which mine coal, which
is a fossil, which is burned to make fuel... Also,
in Oxford style debate, sarcasm is a valuable tool...and
often used by mature debaters. At any rate, we can
agree to disagree on the volcanic activity thing. Throw
me a lifeline when the glaciers melt...

There are acidified lakes all over the world which are NOT near coal mines.
How do those lakes become "acidified"?

Aren't "slurry" ponds also created as a by-product of many different types of manufacturing plants???

Throw you a lifeline when the glaciers melt??? lol

How about throw you a blanket in the winter or a candle in the dark when there are no coal companies to provide coal to burn to provide power generation for your electric company?


BTW, I read somewhere that volcanic activity(worldwide) emits more CO2 into the atmosphere than ALL of the worlds vehicle exhausts combined.

[thecavemaster]

There are acidified lakes all over the world which are NOT near coal mines.
How do those lakes become "acidified"?

Aren't "slurry" ponds also created as a by-product of many different types of manufacturing plants???

Throw you a lifeline when the glaciers melt??? lol

How about throw you a blanket in the winter or a candle in the dark when there are no coal companies to provide coal to burn to provide power generation for your electric company?


BTW, I read somewhere that volcanic activity(worldwide) emits more CO2 into the atmosphere than ALL of the worlds vehicle exhausts combined.

Acid rain has nothing to do with proximity to a coal mine.
With the advent of the industrial revolution came smoke
from burning stuff to make fuel. That smoke does not
simply disappear...it becomes part of the water cycle
and falls in acidified precipitation...smoke from the former
steel belt (now rust belt) caused lakes hundreds of miles
away in upper New York to become lifeless. I have
lived part of my life "off the grid," just as my ancestors
did less than two hundred years ago. It is only
cultural conditioning and thinking so that makes electricity
necessary to happiness...

[FOX SPORTS]

It is only
cultural conditioning and thinking so that makes electricity
necessary to happiness...

Electricity does not make make happiness, Electricity makes comfort and quality of life that I happen to enjoy.
I appreciate the hard working coal miners that have over the course of our nation's history that have provided coal need for electricity production and my families comfort.

[thecavemaster]

Electricity does not make make happiness, Electricity makes comfort and quality of life that I happen to enjoy.
I appreciate the hard working coal miners that have over the course of our nation's history that have provided coal need for electricity production and my families comfort.

Of course, you answer an argument that I did not make:
coal miners work very hard in dangerous conditions to
put food on the table for their families. I have no
desire to pass laws, lobby for legislation that threatens
your comfort. However, "comfort" and "quality of life"
come with price in the industrial age. Your strategy
seems to be to shop at Walmart and either deny that
working conditions in China and Thailand's sweat shops
are inhumane or to not care as long as you and yours
save money and find comfort. Here is the "screw the
rest of the world I got to watch out for me and mine"
mindset that renders this nation problematic in the
overall global scheme.

[Old School]

For quite some time, researchers and cognitive dissonants
alike said that linking smoking to cancer was nothing more
than scare tactics, scary scenarios, etc. I don't know
a lot about scenarios, but I know this: crowded bars trap
smoke...I've got to believe that millions of cars spewing
smoke into the atmosphere is not some benign, "of no real
effect" matter...the industrial revolution has not been
kind to the environment...ever fished in an acidified lake?
Nope...ain't no life there...believe as you will (and that's
what we do)...but common sense tells us this fossil fuel
party does NOT come without a cost...

Water Vapor which is responsible for 95% of Earth's greenhouse effect is 99.999% Natural. Even if we wanted to we there's nothing we can do to change this.

Anthropogenic (man-made) CO2 contributions cause only about 0.117% of Earth's greenhouse effect, (factoring in water vapor). Adding up all the man-made greenhouse sources the total human contribution to the greenhouse effect is around 0.28% (factoring in water vapor),

The Kyoto Protocol calls for mandatory carbon dioxide reductions of 30% from developed countries. Reducing man-made CO2 emissions this much would have a undetectable effect on our climate, while having a devasting effect on our economy. Can everyone reduce their driving by 30%? Can everyone reduce their winter heating by 30%? Prices on every day products would raise by about 40%. Even if we were to reduce the CO2 emissions by 30% it would only change the greenhouse contributions by 0.035%.

The CO2 in our atmosphere has been increasing steadily for the last 18,000 years...long before humans invented the automobile

[thecavemaster]

You are suggesting that the industrial revolution...introduction of pollutants
in thousands upon thousands of manufacturing facilities, and millions upon
millions of cars sending smoke into the air has little or no impact on the
environment? I'm not saying that global warming proponents don't do
some doomsday scenario projections that perhaps overstate, but it seems
to me that when lakes start dying, mercury levels start rising in fish, glaciers
start melting...and all these things, more or less, coincide...that there's
a lot of ostrich-like head-in-the-sand reaction.

[Old School]

You are suggesting that the industrial revolution...introduction of pollutants
in thousands upon thousands of manufacturing facilities, and millions upon
millions of cars sending smoke into the air has little or no impact on the
environment? I'm not saying that global warming proponents don't do
some doomsday scenario projections that perhaps overstate, but it seems
to me that when lakes start dying, mercury levels start rising in fish, glaciers
start melting...and all these things, more or less, coincide...that there's
a lot of ostrich-like head-in-the-sand reaction.

As I stated before warming and cooling cycles have been occurring for hundreds of thousands of years....long before the industrial era began. If global warming and the greenhouse effect was the fault of the industrial era, then how do you explain the warming and cooling cycles prior to the industrial era? The hottest period in human history is know as the Holocene Maximum, and the interesting fact is that this period occurred approximately 4,000 to 7,500 years ago...again long before humans invented industrial pollutions.

[thecavemaster]

As I stated before warming and cooling cycles have been occurring for hundreds of thousands of years....long before the industrial era began. If global warming and the greenhouse effect was the fault of the industrial era, then how do you explain the warming and cooling cycles prior to the industrial era? The hottest period in human history is know as the Holocene Maximum, and the interesting fact is that this period occurred approximately 4,000 to 7,500 years ago...again long before humans invented industrial pollutions.

Yes, there are cycles of temperature variation, but when
a concurrence of phenomenon take place, and the natural
cycle seems to be speeded up, amped up, then the thought is
to begin to research why... again, global climate change
is not the only piece of evidence that the rampant burning
of fossil fuels is taking its toll on the environment, nor
is it (GW) the only cause of concern. I take you last
statement to mean that you do find that "humans invented
industrial pollutions"?

[FOX SPORTS]

Of course, you answer an argument that I did not make:
coal miners work very hard in dangerous conditions to
put food on the table for their families. I have no
desire to pass laws, lobby for legislation that threatens
your comfort. However, "comfort" and "quality of life"
come with price in the industrial age. Your strategy
seems to be to shop at Walmart and either deny that
working conditions in China and Thailand's sweat shops
are inhumane or to not care as long as you and yours
save money and find comfort. Here is the "screw the
rest of the world I got to watch out for me and mine"
mindset that renders this nation problematic in the
overall global scheme.

No I didn't...I answered and Quoted your response.

Then, you bring shopping at WalMart and Chinese sweatshops into the discussion.:confused:
You have tried to change the topic or just lost focus...Please don't try to bring Chinese working conditions into a global warming argument, that's just silly

I believe this thread has served it's purpose...it has shown that we have good members on this site who have different perspectives on global warming and neither side is going to change the others minds.

Closed...

[Wildcatk23]

Reopen for discussion .

[Wildcatk23]

D