Age and results??

Micro-Brew · 02-24-2012, 01:32 PM

I started this thread for my own curiosity. Now please and I beg please no bashing of kids or their families. That is most definitely not why I started this thread. Holding back children has been a very controversial subject on this site and others and to get a better look at the advantages and disadvantages I'd like to see the results of kids who have been held back and their progress into high school athletics and even college athletics. Also maybe even what they're doing now. I'll start with one. I know Elijah Justice was held back. We all know his end to the story. State Championship, Mr. Basketball, Scholly to U of L. Now this may not be the rule, he may be the exception, but can you say he would have attained any of those three had he graduated the year prior. I'd like to hear some of the people you guys know and the results. Also I started this thread in football, but I meant it for all sports. Moderators if it needs to be moved to a more appropriate location, I'm sorry for the trouble. Thanks!!

footballfever · 02-24-2012, 01:43 PM

It would be interesting to see eligibility lists from schools to see how many players graduate who do or dont have another year. You could see if successful teams had lots of holdbacks or not.
I consider a holdback anyone who when graduates could not play another year because of age.

**laker20** · 02-24-2012, 04:41 PM

Quote:It would be interesting to see eligibility lists from schools to see how many players graduate who do or dont have another year

I may be misunderstanding what your saying , but no one graduating from HS has a remaining year of eligibility. However, you may just be referring to the age of graduating athletes????

As far as holding back a child, I don't see how anyone other the parents (or guardians) of the child could have any concern or opinion over the matter, so why is it "Controversial?". There is no way that you or I or a whole panel from this forum could determine that any graduating student would have really benefited from either being held back or having not been. There is no definitive answer to hold back or not......the decision has to be based on where a child stands in the 7th grade (at the latest) in anticipation of where one expects him/her to be by HS graduation.

Personally, if I were making the decision I would base it on three primary factors (in my order of importance): 1) maturity level 2) academic preparedness 3) athletic/physical development.....again all based on where I expect him/her to be by graduation.

As to say whether or not the young man mentioned would or could have accomplished the things he has without having been held back, no one can say for sure either way.

So IMO holding a student back may be subjective, but the only controversial part about it is when an outsider (anyone other than the person making the decision) judges on the intent of the hold back or the decision that was made without having first hand knowledge of the factors used to make the decision.

Tica · 02-24-2012, 07:43 PM

Some say the best hold back years are 4th or 5th grade. I held my son back in the fifth grade more for social immaturity than anything else. He was not even playing football at the time. He was an August baby and had started school a year too early. Turns out it was all positive for academics and athletics. Best thing I could have done for him.

footballfever · 02-25-2012, 01:41 AM

laker20 Wrote:I may be misunderstanding what your saying , but no one graduating from HS has a remaining year of eligibility. However, you may just be referring to the age of graduating athletes????

As far as holding back a child, I don't see how anyone other the parents (or guardians) of the child could have any concern or opinion over the matter, so why is it "Controversial?". There is no way that you or I or a whole panel from this forum could determine that any graduating student would have really benefited from either being held back or having not been. There is no definitive answer to hold back or not......the decision has to be based on where a child stands in the 7th grade (at the latest) in anticipation of where one expects him/her to be by HS graduation.

Personally, if I were making the decision I would base it on three primary factors (in my order of importance): 1) maturity level 2) academic preparedness 3) athletic/physical development.....again all based on where I expect him/her to be by graduation.

As to say whether or not the young man mentioned would or could have accomplished the things he has without having been held back, no one can say for sure either way.

So IMO holding a student back may be subjective, but the only controversial part about it is when an outsider (anyone other than the person making the decision) judges on the intent of the hold back or the decision that was made without having first hand knowledge of the factors used to make the decision.

WOW :thanks:

**RunItUpTheGut** · 02-25-2012, 02:22 AM

Yay, yet another holdback thread.
Close this crap, theres already 5 others.

footballfever · 02-25-2012, 09:59 AM

RunItUpTheGut Wrote:Yay, yet another holdback thread.
Close this crap, theres already 5 others.

Yep and I've posted on all of em. Still would like to know how many of Highlands 124 players were held back.:popcorn:

**toussaints** · 02-25-2012, 03:30 PM

footballfever Wrote:Yep and I've posted on all of em. Still would like to know how many of Highlands 124 players were held back.:popcorn:

actually, A LOT less than you would think. Ft. Thomas Independent doesn't favor holding kids back for anything other than academic reasons. Can't speak for Campbell Co. schools, but it's rare to see Highlands or really any other school in NKY with kids that were held back for athletics.

footballfever · 02-25-2012, 06:40 PM

toussaints Wrote:actually, A LOT less than you would think. Ft. Thomas Independent doesn't favor holding kids back for anything other than academic reasons. Can't speak for Campbell Co. schools, but it's rare to see Highlands or really any other school in NKY with kids that were held back for athletics.

OK...how many would I think and whats a LOT less than that. I would also say 95% of the kids held back were not JUST for athletics. Schools can only retain students for failing a grade. I know of NO school that just decides to hold a kid back. Only a parent can do that.:popcorn:

**HawksRule** · 02-25-2012, 06:45 PM

I turned 18 a few months after my Senior season. I had a D3 offer and some NAIA offers, but that's just me.

Micro-Brew · 02-27-2012, 05:52 PM

I guess I apologize for opening this thread??? Totally not what I was going for. I really wanted specific results on holdbacks. For instance so and so held back and he quit football after his junior year of high school. I don't care if they're positive or negative results, I'd just like to see results. Also I don't care if a particular team has 50 players per class and all 50 held back. I truly don't care!!! Plus to Hawksrule....Congrats!!! I am sure there are plenty of young men who gain athletic scholarships and who are much younger than many in their class, but I'm just looking for results on hold backs. Not non-holdbacks who do just fine. The few holdbacks I have known (probably 10 or less), I can only think of 1 who didn't excel athletically his senior year. This kid would have too by the way, but he quit sports. I just don't know enough hold backs to form my opinion on the matter.

**toussaints** · 02-27-2012, 11:15 PM

footballfever Wrote:OK...how many would I think and whats a LOT less than that. I would also say 95% of the kids held back were not JUST for athletics. Schools can only retain students for failing a grade. I know of NO school that just decides to hold a kid back. Only a parent can do that.:popcorn:

1-3 out of the 124

Bear_Paw · 03-04-2012, 09:22 PM

Anybody watching 60 minutes tonight? A lot of people way smarter than us can't agree either...lol.

Shylo · 03-06-2012, 08:42 AM

football is a good and popular game.i also play football.but mostly footall players are not graduate.some of them play football in school time.world cup soccer players are good entertainer.

Bluegrasscard · 03-06-2012, 10:01 AM

I am not sure the exact definition of a 'Holdback'.

Kentucky law allows students to start 1st grade at an age when they will graduate when they are 17. As usual, this is counter to the national trend of starting kids later - by law - so that when they are 'on-schedule' they will graduate when they are 18.

While a lot people get bragging rights through their kids sports activities some parents get bragging rights about how well their 'younger' student is doing grade-wise when they are very young.

From direct and anecdotal experience- boys who are on the 17 path vs. 18 path struggle - both academically and sometimes, depending on the sport, athletically. They are emotionally and physically less mature than their peer group - on average.

Thus, 'holding back' a boy from the 17 path to the 18 path should not be viewed a such a negative thing. If it is done it should be done as early as possible. By middle school it may be more difficult to rationalize.

Since Kentucky allows 19 year olds to play the question of holding back to go from the 18 path to the 19 path is another question. Personally, this one is harder to justify, especially during middle school.

Having talked to recruiters and national level figures who have come to Kentucky I will say they are amazed about the issue of hold back for athletic purposes. It is not at all a common practice nationally. And, as pointed out, many states have changed their starting dates to students so that they can not start 1st grade until they are 6 years. Thus, by law, students are 'held back' at the start and all of them will graduate when they are 18 or older.

footballfever · 03-06-2012, 02:08 PM

toussaints Wrote:1-3 out of the 124

I don't have a million $$$ but I'd be willing to bet 1000 there is more than that.