[canoeman06]

Why close the thread ??
Just some "discussion" taking place

[barrel]

To answer a question I was asked in the other thread before it was shut down.

I suggested if a player was retained for any reason in MS that he not be able to play in the state playoffs. Some conferences and districts already have this rule. The player could play all season so football would not be taken away from him but no state playoffs. If a player needs to be retained for grades this is a clear choice. The other reasons often given for retaining a student could be done by either starting the child later or retaining the child at an early age.

There are schools that it is common for players to retained while in MS. This is straight from the coaches at the schools.

[knighted]

To answer a question I was asked in the other thread before it was shut down.

I suggested if a player was retained for any reason in MS that he not be able to play in the state playoffs. Some conferences and districts already have this rule. The player could play all season so football would not be taken away from him but no state playoffs. If a player needs to be retained for grades this is a clear choice. The other reasons often given for retaining a student could be done by either starting the child later or retaining the child at an early age.

There are schools that it is common for players to retained while in MS. This is straight from the coaches at the schools.

But the actual question was " what if a 4th or 5th grade kid repeated?". that means an elementary grade not MS.

[Newjacket]

But the actual question was " what if a 4th or 5th grade kid repeated?". that means an elementary grade not MS.

I agree with Knighted. If you make a rule about this happening in middle school, the parents that want to give their kid this advantage will just start holding them back at an earlier age. Having a set age like they do now is the best option. Changing that age limit might be an idea or limiting kids to two years of playing for middle school but that would open up a whole new can of worms.

[knighted]

I agree with Knighted. If you make a rule about this happening in middle school, the parents that want to give their kid this advantage will just start holding them back at an earlier age. Having a set age like they do now is the best option. Changing that age limit might be an idea or limiting kids to two years of playing for middle school but that would open up a whole new can of worms.

Very good point Newjacket.

[barrel]

If you hold them back in k-5 then fine. No issue with it and that is when you do it. Having a number of 7th graders repeat the 7th grade is a different issue. In that case a player has 4 years of MS football in addition to 4 years of being in a system. Big difference. There are teams that will hold back kids in about the 7th grade and load up. This is not made up stuff it is straight up from certain coaches.

The problem with a 2 year limit is smaller programs that play kids for 3 years.

[Newjacket]

If you hold them back in k-5 then fine. No issue with it and that is when you do it. Having a number of 7th graders repeat the 7th grade is a different issue. In that case a player has 4 years of MS football in addition to 4 years of being in a system. Big difference. There are teams that will hold back kids in about the 7th grade and load up. This is not made up stuff it is straight up from certain coaches.

The problem with a 2 year limit is smaller programs that play kids for 3 years.

You're right about the two year limit. I wasn't thinking about some schools playing 6th graders. We have never allowed 6th graders to play for middle school, but are actually considering it for next year out of necessity. We are losing 11 8th graders and according to little league coaches, only 5 current 6th graders played football this year. We may have to play them to be able to have a team.

[Coach Howard]

I am a coach that has had parents hold my players back while they were in Middle School. They stated that they wished they had done it earlier but didn't realize it back when they were in the Elementary grades but now realize that their child needs it. I see no problem with it. Why whine about 14 year old kids when all parents have the option to hold their child back or not. Do you whine when your child is only 8 and playing against 12 year old kids in Little League? " those big ol' boys throw the ball way to fast and hard for my little 8 year old." Currently the rules are what they are, if you don't like competing against teams that have hold-backs get your school to start up an intramural program and then you can make your own rules. I would be willing to bet that there isn't one coach in the state of Ky. that hasn't had that one player in the past that hey knew deep down in that if they could keep them for just one more year they could teach/tutor that child a little more individually and know that it could make the difference in a possible scholarship down the road. Sure it sucks if your opponent has hold-backs and yours don't but that's just the way it is some years. I loved it when my school was basically the only one that had hold-backs in the Big Sandy but now it's pretty much common practice for my opponents to hold kids back and now that edge I had for a few years is shrinking and I have no problem with it. In the past I have spoken to some of those very coaches and told them they had to change the attitude in their areas because it really helps the high school programs and the kids, it's a win/win situation and it's within the rules. Now those coaches have their own hold-backs and they are reaping the benefits at the next level and are better preparing kids for not only high school but also college.

[BOBCAT-BLACK & GOLD]

Well said COACH HOWARD, and because of men like your self i know my child will be a much better player at the next level...again thanks...

[Red and Black]

great post, Coach Howard... i agree 100%

[Coach Howard]

This will be my last statement on this thread or any thread that talks about hold-backs because I think I have made my opinion pretty obvious to everyone concerned. However, I had read the holdback post several times over the past two or so weeks and ignored it because I have voiced my opinion year after year on the topic. But what got me going was the post by someone I'm not familiar with putting a young man's name in his post pretty much calling him and his parents out. I have spoken to this young man and his father and not only do I support his decision to hold his son back but I think it was one of the best hold backs I've seen over the years. The kid was not ready to move on to high school even though he may have appeared to be physically ready to someone else. After talking to the father I was made aware of some of the circumstances that made their decisions easier for them. These circumstances are none of your business and if he wanted you to know them he would have posted them for everyone to read and he didn't so I am not going to elaborate on them either. However, when an adult purposefully posts a child's name for everyone to read and made it clear who that child was is unforgivable regardless of what has happened or the surrounding circumstances. Please remember in the future that there is no case when a adult should ever post a child's name on a post for someone else to read and make assumptions about a child. Guys whenever a person get's on a public forum like this and forgets or ignores that we have an impact on how children's lives are affected by what we say and do that person should be banned from sites like this. Guys I'm not above making a mistake sometimes in what I type and if I have ever offended or hurt someone's feelings particularly a child I sincerely apologize. I guess this post was from the father in me first, then the teacher and then the coach but it really bothered me to see a fine young man that I have coached against this year being hung out to dry and not being able to do anything about it. If it was one of my players I would be contacting moderators and trying to find out who and why someone did this. High school kids are older, more mature, and a little bit jaded as to what someone says about them but a middle school kid is still a child regardless of what they look like or how big they are and they need to be treated like a child and it's up to us to make sure that their self-esteem and psyche is protected until they can take care of themselves.

[BlackcatAlum]

Thread was closed because there was two threads over the same game.