[Matman]

Just a little background. I'm a federal employee and a us army reservist. I have spent 3 out of the last 6 years in Iraq. I also have a small business. We have about 6 fulltime employees and 6 part time employees. Most of the total earnings go to the salaries and business expenses. In other words its not making me rich. But it is worth around 400k. Am i going to be taxed under Obama. This is a real question not a Obama vs bush or McCain question. Just curious. Also my wife is the sole employee of a small business. Will Obama require her employer to give her health insurance even if she doesn't need it? The question is how will Obama's plan effect me. I'm looking for real answers please. Thank you

[ComfortEagle]

Try reading this:

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/..._bunk.html

And definitely this (it's a .pdf that explains Obama's plan for small businesses):

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/bus...sFinal.pdf

And finally, there is this:

http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/10...-tax-plan/


I will let you read them and tell me what you think. I tried to find what I could on taxes.

[Navajo4life]

Yes you will and it will kill your business

[ComfortEagle]

Yes you will and it will kill your business

Can you please provide an example or some sources of information?

This guy is looking for real answers and "yes he will" is simply not enough to base a decision on.

You provide nothing to this member or this thread without giving any reasoning behind your statement.

From here on out in this thread, I will not tolerate any responses that provide nothing to the thread. Any posts that do not provide an answer to the OP's question will be deleted and you will receive an infraction for post-padding. I also urge you to provide sources for your information so that we are not giving the OP any false information.

An example of posts that will be deleted are:

"Yes he will and Obama sucks"

or

"No he won't and McCain sucks"

Again, there are dozens of other threads for you to voice your opinions on whichever candidate, but this guy is looking for real answers and I will not have this thread clogged with anything useless.

[Beetle01]

For one its tough to decide. You're going to be required to provide insurance for all your employees. Insurance rates will go up due to the fact Obama is going to require them to cover more things, and include pre-existing conditons, which I have no problem with. However, here at my job its about 8k per employee per year for the company to provide insurance. Now there are several hundred employees so they more than likely get a break, but not knowing what your business entails, I imagine that where I work it is much more hazardous from an insurance companies point of view. So about 8k per year times your 12 employees, not sure about yourself is about 96k a year for insurance. That seems a little high, it may not be that much for you, but I would imagine 70k would be a sound number. Now I don't know how much that would hurt you but that is a substantial amount of money. Thats just health insurance, thats not counting the increased taxes, not to mention your taxes will go up even more because Obama plans to let the Bush tax cuts expire. I say you will pay around 20k mroe per year in taxes under Obama once the Bush tax cuts expire in 2010. Of course thats just a guess as I don't know your income from your business. I'd say you could estimate losing anywehre from 65k-95k per year under Obama.

[thecavemaster]

For one its tough to decide. You're going to be required to provide insurance for all your employees. Insurance rates will go up due to the fact Obama is going to require them to cover more things, and include pre-existing conditons, which I have no problem with. However, here at my job its about 8k per employee per year for the company to provide insurance. Now there are several hundred employees so they more than likely get a break, but not knowing what your business entails, I imagine that where I work it is much more hazardous from an insurance companies point of view. So about 8k per year times your 12 employees, not sure about yourself is about 96k a year for insurance. That seems a little high, it may not be that much for you, but I would imagine 70k would be a sound number. Now I don't know how much that would hurt you but that is a substantial amount of money. Thats just health insurance, thats not counting the increased taxes, not to mention your taxes will go up even more because Obama plans to let the Bush tax cuts expire. I say you will pay around 20k mroe per year in taxes under Obama once the Bush tax cuts expire in 2010. Of course thats just a guess as I don't know your income from your business. I'd say you could estimate losing anywehre from 65k-95k per year under Obama.

Would you care to discuss the failure rate of small businesses over the last thirty years?

[ComfortEagle]

Matman, from everything I've read the way I understand things, it depends on your income and not the businesses income. In other words, it's what you bring home, not what the business is worth. If you and your wife are bringing in more than $250,000 then yes your taxes will go up. However, if you and your wife are bringing in under $250,000 then you will actually get a cut.

[Beetle01]

Matman, from everything I've read the way I understand things, it depends on your income and not the businesses income. In other words, it's what you bring home, not what the business is worth. If you and your wife are bringing in more than $250,000 then yes your taxes will go up. However, if you and your wife are bringing in under $250,000 then you will actually get a cut.

This is true, but don't forget the addition of providing insurance for your employees. ALso, Obama said that if companies don't provide insurance they will pay a "tax" but he has put no number on that tax. I would say around 5-8thousand per employee.

Also, while Obama won't increase your taxes, your taxes will signifigantly go up when the Bush tax cuts are not renewed.

[ComfortEagle]

Found this tidbit too, per suntimes.com:

The 95 percent-plus of the American population that earns less than $250,000 would see the following tax breaks: A $500-per-worker tax credit for people who earn less than $150,000 and do not itemize, and a $4,000 credit per child in college. Seniors who earn less than $50,000 would pay no income tax.


and this:

The precise cost depends on whether you assume the current tax breaks would be renewed or would expire.

Assuming they would have been renewed anyway, Obama's plan would bring in an additional $700 billion in taxes over the next 10 years, while McCain's would cost the Treasury $600 billion. Assuming legislators would have let the tax breaks expire, Obama's plan would cost the U.S. Treasury $2.7 trillion and McCain's $3.7 trillion.

The center uses various assumptions both campaigns quarrel with. Each campaign also accuses the other of not being honest with the numbers.

[ComfortEagle]

This is true, but don't forget the addition of providing insurance for your employees. ALso, Obama said that if companies don't provide insurance they will pay a "tax" but he has put no number on that tax. I would say around 5-8thousand per employee.

Also, while Obama won't increase your taxes, your taxes will signifigantly go up when the Bush tax cuts are not renewed.

This was found on Obama's site regarding health care:

Require insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions so all Americans regardless of their health status or history can get comprehensive benefits at fair and stable premiums.

Create a new Small Business Health Tax Credit to help small businesses provide affordable health insurance to their employees.

Lower costs for businesses by covering a portion of the catastrophic health costs they pay in return for lower premiums for employees.

Prevent insurers from overcharging doctors for their malpractice insurance and invest in proven strategies to reduce preventable medical errors.

Make employer contributions more fair by requiring large employers that do not offer coverage or make a meaningful contribution to the cost of quality health coverage for their employees to contribute a percentage of payroll toward the costs of their employees health care.

Establish a National Health Insurance Exchange with a range of private insurance options as well as a new public plan based on benefits available to members of Congress that will allow individuals and small businesses to buy affordable health coverage.

Ensure everyone who needs it will receive a tax credit for their premiums.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/health...duce_costs

[Beetle01]

Found this tidbit too, per suntimes.com:

The 95 percent-plus of the American population that earns less than $250,000 would see the following tax breaks: A $500-per-worker tax credit for people who earn less than $150,000 and do not itemize, and a $4,000 credit per child in college. Seniors who earn less than $50,000 would pay no income tax.


and this:

The precise cost depends on whether you assume the current tax breaks would be renewed or would expire.

Assuming they would have been renewed anyway, Obama's plan would bring in an additional $700 billion in taxes over the next 10 years, while McCain's would cost the Treasury $600 billion. Assuming legislators would have let the tax breaks expire, Obama's plan would cost the U.S. Treasury $2.7 trillion and McCain's $3.7 trillion.

The center uses various assumptions both campaigns quarrel with. Each campaign also accuses the other of not being honest with the numbers.

This was found on Obama's site regarding health care:

Require insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions so all Americans regardless of their health status or history can get comprehensive benefits at fair and stable premiums.

Create a new Small Business Health Tax Credit to help small businesses provide affordable health insurance to their employees.

Lower costs for businesses by covering a portion of the catastrophic health costs they pay in return for lower premiums for employees.

Prevent insurers from overcharging doctors for their malpractice insurance and invest in proven strategies to reduce preventable medical errors.

Make employer contributions more fair by requiring large employers that do not offer coverage or make a meaningful contribution to the cost of quality health coverage for their employees to contribute a percentage of payroll toward the costs of their employees health care.

Establish a National Health Insurance Exchange with a range of private insurance options as well as a new public plan based on benefits available to members of Congress that will allow individuals and small businesses to buy affordable health coverage.

Ensure everyone who needs it will receive a tax credit for their premiums.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/health...duce_costs

Obama has stated he will let the current tax cuts expire. Also you would recieve around 6k in "tax welfare" which would cover the cost of 1 employees insurance.

Tax credits are not tax breaks. It is money taken by the govt from people who earned it and given to other people. It is welfare.

Obama has not been honest with all of his numbers, how much of a tax credit? That's not a tax break, it is going to be more money spent by the govt. 1k? 2k? 7k? 7k per employee for every small business in the country, times 10 years. Add that to your already 2.7 trillion number and I bet it more than exceeds 3.7trillion.

Obama's budgets are tough to do because he won't give alot of numbers for important things such as the employee insurance tax welfare.

[ComfortEagle]

Obama’s Comprehensive Tax Policy Plan for America will:

Cut taxes for 95 percent of workers and their families with a tax cut of $500 for workers or $1,000 for working couples.

Provide generous tax cuts for low- and middle-income seniors, homeowners, the uninsured, and families sending a child to college or looking to save and accumulate wealth.

Eliminate capital gains taxes for small businesses, cut corporate taxes for firms that invest and create jobs in the United States, and provide tax credits to reduce the cost of healthcare and to reward investments in innovation.

Dramatically simplify taxes by consolidating existing tax credits, eliminating the need for millions of senior citizens to file tax forms, and enabling as many as 40 million middle-class Americans to do their own taxes in less than five minutes without an accountant.


Under the Obama Plan:

Middle class families will see their taxes cut – and no family making less than $250,000 will see their taxes increase. The typical middle class family will receive well over $1,000 in tax relief under the Obama plan, and will pay tax rates that are 20% lower than they faced under President Reagan. According to the Tax Policy Center, the Obama plan provides three times as much tax relief for middle class families as the McCain plan.

Families making more than $250,000 will pay either the same or lower tax rates than they paid in the 1990s. Obama will ask the wealthiest 2% of families to give back a portion of the tax cuts they have received over the past eight years to ensure we are restoring fairness and returning to fiscal responsibility. But no family will pay higher tax rates than they would have paid in the 1990s. In fact, dividend rates would be 39 percent lower than what President Bush proposed in his 2001 tax cut.

Obama’s plan will cut taxes overall, reducing revenues to below the levels that prevailed under Ronald Reagan (less than 18.2 percent of GDP). The Obama tax plan is a net tax cut – his tax relief for middle class families is larger than the revenue raised by his tax changes for families over $250,000. Coupled with his commitment to cut unnecessary spending, Obama will pay for this tax relief while bringing down the budget deficit.



http://www.barackobama.com/taxes/

[cart man]

The way I understand this is for example you make $260,000 in net income (not gross receipts) from your small business

The first $250,000 is taxed the same as now.

The additional $10,000 is tax at an additional 2%.

So, if you make over $250,000 there is not an increase on all of your income just the amount over.

[ComfortEagle]

Obama has stated he will let the current tax cuts expire. Also you would recieve around 6k in "tax welfare" which would cover the cost of 1 employees insurance.

Tax credits are not tax breaks. It is money taken by the govt from people who earned it and given to other people. It is welfare.

Obama has not been honest with all of his numbers, how much of a tax credit? That's not a tax break, it is going to be more money spent by the govt. 1k? 2k? 7k? 7k per employee for every small business in the country, times 10 years. Add that to your already 2.7 trillion number and I bet it more than exceeds 3.7trillion.

Obama's budgets are tough to do because he won't give alot of numbers for important things such as the employee insurance tax welfare.

Both sides have been accused of "playing with their numbers." We can assume different numbers all we want, I'm just trying to give the clearest answers I can find.

[Beetle01]

Obama’s Comprehensive Tax Policy Plan for America will:

Cut taxes for 95 percent of workers and their families with a tax cut of $500 for workers or $1,000 for working couples.

Provide generous tax cuts for low- and middle-income seniors, homeowners, the uninsured, and families sending a child to college or looking to save and accumulate wealth.

Eliminate capital gains taxes for small businesses, cut corporate taxes for firms that invest and create jobs in the United States, and provide tax credits to reduce the cost of healthcare and to reward investments in innovation.

Dramatically simplify taxes by consolidating existing tax credits, eliminating the need for millions of senior citizens to file tax forms, and enabling as many as 40 million middle-class Americans to do their own taxes in less than five minutes without an accountant.


Under the Obama Plan:

Middle class families will see their taxes cut – and no family making less than $250,000 will see their taxes increase. The typical middle class family will receive well over $1,000 in tax relief under the Obama plan, and will pay tax rates that are 20% lower than they faced under President Reagan. According to the Tax Policy Center, the Obama plan provides three times as much tax relief for middle class families as the McCain plan.

Families making more than $250,000 will pay either the same or lower tax rates than they paid in the 1990s. Obama will ask the wealthiest 2% of families to give back a portion of the tax cuts they have received over the past eight years to ensure we are restoring fairness and returning to fiscal responsibility. But no family will pay higher tax rates than they would have paid in the 1990s. In fact, dividend rates would be 39 percent lower than what President Bush proposed in his 2001 tax cut.

Obama’s plan will cut taxes overall, reducing revenues to below the levels that prevailed under Ronald Reagan (less than 18.2 percent of GDP). The Obama tax plan is a net tax cut – his tax relief for middle class families is larger than the revenue raised by his tax changes for families over $250,000. Coupled with his commitment to cut unnecessary spending, Obama will pay for this tax relief while bringing down the budget deficit.



http://www.barackobama.com/taxes/

Ive never seen so many falsisms in one post.

For one you can't give tax cuts to people who don't pay taxes. your giving these people welfare. The bottom 50% of the tax bracket which includes the middle class pay 2% of the taxes paid in this country. Yet we want to give each worker 500dollars, and have the seniors pay no taxes. While increasing govt spending. WOW what an answer to our economic crisis.

[Beetle01]

The way I understand this is for example you make $260,000 in net income (not gross receipts) from your small business

The first $250,000 is taxed the same as now.

The additional $10,000 is tax at an additional 2%.

So, if you make over $250,000 there is not an increase on all of your income just the amount over.

Nope increase on all of it.

[ComfortEagle]

Ive never seen so many falsisms in one post.

For one you can't give tax cuts to people who don't pay taxes. your giving these people welfare. The bottom 50% of the tax bracket which includes the middle class pay 2% of the taxes paid in this country. Yet we want to give each worker 500dollars, and have the seniors pay no taxes. While increasing govt spending. WOW what an answer to our economic crisis.

Can we please keep attempt to stick to the topic and not clog the thread with criticisms. If you want I will create another thread specifically for that, but I would like for the OP to be able to find answers and not have to sift through debates.

[Beetle01]

Can we please keep attempt to stick to the topic and not clog the thread with criticisms. If you want I will create another thread specifically for that, but I would like for the OP to be able to find answers and not have to sift through debates.

Ive already posted about this very clearly.
Even with the employee welfare, the cost of providing his employees insurance is going to run him around 65k per year for those 12 employees. Now Obama claims he is going to give money to small business's to help provide them insurance. How much that will be is anyone's guess. If he even does that. For some reason people have this perception that Obama is different from all other politicians that he will actually do what he says, just because he says so. So who knows.

SO I would imagine if your business is bringing in 150k per year income to you, your going to pay, this includes 3k per employee tax credit if Obama does come through with that for insurances, plus your other credits, plus your tax cuts from Obama and then your tax increases when the BUsh tax cuts are lifted, you will pay around 30-40k more per year, without the employee insurance tax credit, around 65k again.

[cart man]

Nope increase on all of it.

I disagree with you on this. Tax rates are based on cutoffs.

2008 Married

Taxable income 0 - $8025 pay 10%
Taxable income $8025 - $32550 10% on first $8025 pay 15% over $8025.
Taxable income $32550 - $78850 10% on first $8025 pay 15% from $8025 to $32550 and 25% over $32550 and so on.

His plan would increase the tax rates on the amount over $250,000 and not the lower rates.

[cart man]

Tax credits are not tax breaks. It is money taken by the govt from people who earned it and given to other people. It is welfare.

McCain's health plan appears to be welfare to me with a refundable tax credit.

Better Than "Members of Congress": Under the McCain Plan, your employer can provide you with health insurance as good as a "Member of Congress" (approximately $12,000), and you would pay no more in taxes – regardless of your tax bracket. In fact, you would have additional money left over from the McCain tax credit to put in a health savings account.

Income Tax Liability McCain-Palin
Tax Credit Total Tax Savings
10% Bracket
(Up to $15,000)
$1,200 ($12,000 x 10%) $5,000 +$3,800
15% Bracket ($15,650 - $63,700)
$1,800 ($12,000 x 15%) $5,000 +$3,200
25% Bracket ($63,700 - $128,500)
$3,000 ($12,000 x 25%) $5,000 +$2,000
28% Bracket ($128,500 - $195,850)
$3,360 ($12,000 x 28%) $5,000 +$1,640
33% Bracket ($195,850 - $349,700)
$3,960 ($12,000 x 33%) $5,000 +$1,040
35% Bracket ($349,700 and Over)
$4,200 ($12,000 x 35%) $5,000 +$800

[Matman]

So will i be required to provide health inurance for all 12 employess or just the six that i have full time. Plus 4 of those employees already have insurance. Not through us but with the VA and their previous retirement. So from what i'm reading it says i will still have to provide them with insurance. Right now the only reason we keep the business is to provide these people with good paying jobs. It would be much more profitable to sale it off. How it is now my competitive companies would buy us out just to shut us down. Thanks everyone for the input.

[Beetle01]

You would not have to provide it for the 4 I do not believe. You may still have to pay a tax for not providing them insurance, that has not been made clear by Obama yet.

I believe based on what I have read and understood, Obama requires all employees to have insurance. Now how that pertains to part time or full time I do not know, if you don't provide insurance for part time employees, I imagine that "tax" would be less than not providing it for a full time employee, but who knows. Obama has not been very clear on alot of these issues.