Thread Rating:
09-30-2007, 01:52 AM
What are your predictions??
Scores?
I think this will be the toughest game for the Cougars since Hazard.
However, I believe they can pull off the W.
They must not let that Perry Central win get to their heads. This game isn't going to be a breeze. They will need to come ready to play hard.
I say:
LCC - 35
Whitley Co. - 13
Scores?
I think this will be the toughest game for the Cougars since Hazard.
However, I believe they can pull off the W.
They must not let that Perry Central win get to their heads. This game isn't going to be a breeze. They will need to come ready to play hard.
I say:
LCC - 35
Whitley Co. - 13
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10-01-2007, 12:28 AM
LCC - 56
Whitley - 21
Whitley - 21
10-01-2007, 11:01 AM
LCC is much better than I thought they would be. I figured it would take them a year or two to be THIS good, but they are good. Like I said, I was wrong. I admit it, lol..Charlie Banks is the most improved player in this part of the state...
LCC 48
Whitley 28
LCC 48
Whitley 28
10-01-2007, 02:01 PM
Well Fellers, two months ago I thought that Whitley County would win this game easily. As it stands now, this is the game of the year for Whitley. It is for all practical purposes Whitley County's "Super Bowl" at this point in the season. If Whitley loses this game, they will probably have to beat Clay, at Clay, for an automatic playoff birth (a tough task for any team).
Even if Whitley were to make the playoffs via some tie breaker I do not believe that the Whitley faithful will be satisfied with a 1-3 district record. Most people around Whitley County expected 7 regular season wins with loses to Bell, Rockcastle, and Woodford. Needless to say, Whitley has not played up to the expectations of their fan base this season as it is beginning to look like a 3-7 season is quite possible.
A 3-7 record coming at the heels of a dismal 2-8 campaign last year would no doubt initiate the call for a new coaching staff among the fan base. Remember that Campbell was sacked for a couple of 500 seasons against much better competition.
All this dialog sets the stage for a very tense situation at Whitley's Colonel Stadium Friday Night. There is the appearance of two programs headed in opposite directions with the Letcher Program being on a roll and the Whitley Program seemingly showing the signs of falling apart.
I, being a die-hard Whitley fan, believe that Whitley's kids will come out inspired and play up to their expectations. If this is the case, Letcher will have their hands full.
My rather cautious prdiction:
Whitley 30
Letcher 28
Even if Whitley were to make the playoffs via some tie breaker I do not believe that the Whitley faithful will be satisfied with a 1-3 district record. Most people around Whitley County expected 7 regular season wins with loses to Bell, Rockcastle, and Woodford. Needless to say, Whitley has not played up to the expectations of their fan base this season as it is beginning to look like a 3-7 season is quite possible.
A 3-7 record coming at the heels of a dismal 2-8 campaign last year would no doubt initiate the call for a new coaching staff among the fan base. Remember that Campbell was sacked for a couple of 500 seasons against much better competition.
All this dialog sets the stage for a very tense situation at Whitley's Colonel Stadium Friday Night. There is the appearance of two programs headed in opposite directions with the Letcher Program being on a roll and the Whitley Program seemingly showing the signs of falling apart.
I, being a die-hard Whitley fan, believe that Whitley's kids will come out inspired and play up to their expectations. If this is the case, Letcher will have their hands full.
My rather cautious prdiction:
Whitley 30
Letcher 28
10-01-2007, 07:27 PM
I do not know about the thrill being gone, but the excitement level felt by the Whitley fan base and frankly more importantly by the players is certainly dimenished. A few wins could probably get the flame of hope reignited, but right now an awful lot of people are beginning to doubt the ability of Whitley to win without a major overhaul.
I have heard a lot of folks groaning since the Middlesboro fiasco. Whitley has really struggled offensively all season trying to run a fad offense that was last in fashion about 1930. For all the same reasons the single wing went out of fashion in 1930 for the wing T, it is again coming up short all over the country as defenses adapt to it (See Florida and West Virginia). According to winpedia the single wing was deserted for the wing t because 1) the ball is received to deep in the back field making the play easy to read, 2) the T allowed more faking and deception,3) the T allowed better lead blocking, 4) the T was more condusive to passing. Not my words, winpedia's words.
Friday night, there was some down right nastiness going on in the Whitley Seating Section. I do mean some nastiness. The dad of one of the better players on the team was really upset about his sons playing time and made his opinion rather public which led to an atercation with some of the stronger Black supporters. I support Coach Black, but this particular player should be on the field more, as he is, obviously one of the better 3 or 4 athletes on the team. Sometimes Dad's are right on these issues, sometimes they are not. In this case the dad is probably right.
I know for a fact (because my son was involved) that there has been some issues this season involving the coaches like or dislike for certain players or their families. These issues have a way of compounding problems. I heard some people from the same group of detractors consistantly calling plays accurately before they were run. I would say this means that the offense is pretty predictable. It may be time to give up the fads and return to fundamentals,
Rumblings like these are normal when a team is losing, nothing new here. Winning will cure everything, but this is a team badly needing a win. A loss Friday night might literally lead to the wheels falling off an already unsteady wagon.
I really hate to say some of these things because I really like Coach Black, but to be fair, the coach needs to know what is going on so that he can address, what needs to be addressed. I am willing to write the truth, unlike the back biters that stand around in huddles and talk behind the coaches back. These same huddles led to Coach Campbell's demise. I would like to see Coach Black succeed. In difficult times, good coaches pull their teams together and overcome. It is time to pull this team together and get some winning business done.
I have heard a lot of folks groaning since the Middlesboro fiasco. Whitley has really struggled offensively all season trying to run a fad offense that was last in fashion about 1930. For all the same reasons the single wing went out of fashion in 1930 for the wing T, it is again coming up short all over the country as defenses adapt to it (See Florida and West Virginia). According to winpedia the single wing was deserted for the wing t because 1) the ball is received to deep in the back field making the play easy to read, 2) the T allowed more faking and deception,3) the T allowed better lead blocking, 4) the T was more condusive to passing. Not my words, winpedia's words.
Friday night, there was some down right nastiness going on in the Whitley Seating Section. I do mean some nastiness. The dad of one of the better players on the team was really upset about his sons playing time and made his opinion rather public which led to an atercation with some of the stronger Black supporters. I support Coach Black, but this particular player should be on the field more, as he is, obviously one of the better 3 or 4 athletes on the team. Sometimes Dad's are right on these issues, sometimes they are not. In this case the dad is probably right.
I know for a fact (because my son was involved) that there has been some issues this season involving the coaches like or dislike for certain players or their families. These issues have a way of compounding problems. I heard some people from the same group of detractors consistantly calling plays accurately before they were run. I would say this means that the offense is pretty predictable. It may be time to give up the fads and return to fundamentals,
Rumblings like these are normal when a team is losing, nothing new here. Winning will cure everything, but this is a team badly needing a win. A loss Friday night might literally lead to the wheels falling off an already unsteady wagon.
I really hate to say some of these things because I really like Coach Black, but to be fair, the coach needs to know what is going on so that he can address, what needs to be addressed. I am willing to write the truth, unlike the back biters that stand around in huddles and talk behind the coaches back. These same huddles led to Coach Campbell's demise. I would like to see Coach Black succeed. In difficult times, good coaches pull their teams together and overcome. It is time to pull this team together and get some winning business done.
10-01-2007, 08:57 PM
Possum Bait Wrote:I know for a fact (because my son was involved) that there has been some issues this season involving the coaches like or dislike for certain players or their families. These issues have a way of compounding problems.
I hate to hear that Possum, but as I'm sure you know that is how just about all high school's are run from an athletic stand point, mainly politics. If you aren't someone's cousin, son, or have a father that is big buddies with the higher ups then most likely kids don't have a shot unless they are an absolute man-child.
10-01-2007, 09:01 PM
if whitley lost to perry that doesnt say much so ill go with my cougars
10-01-2007, 11:23 PM
(This post was last modified: 10-01-2007, 11:27 PM by Possum Bait.)
Grizz,
I think this is one of the biggest obstacles that the big rural consolidated schools have to over come if they are to ever compete with the football dynasties around the state. These big schools really go lacking in the ability to make all the students and parents feel like they are a part of something special in their community. There is no community in these big schools. In any given year, there are between 1200 and 1400 students at Whitley High. Whitley probably has 30 varsity football players which would break down something like 8 seniors, 8 juniors and 14 sophmores. In basketball, I think there will be one senior, two juniors and the remainder sophmores and freshmen. I really think one of the big problems is that kids and just as importantly their parents feel alienated by the schools. Most people are not willing to put in the time and money required to be on teams when they know that they are probably not going to get a fair shot. Whats the use?
My son has always been one of the better athletes in his class, but even being the best does not garantee a fair shot. He has encountered what amounts to be B.S. at pretty much every level along the way. On his 6th and 7th grade football team ,even though he was a held back, very experienced, and talented player, he was forced to alternate with a kid two years younger and 30 pounds lighter because the kids dad was a principals son.
I threatened to transfer him as a sixth grader and the coached wised up. His team ended up undefeated and my son probably averaged 40 yards a carry that season. In the 7th grade, my son led an undefeated team in touchdowns although he did not start on offense and carried the ball about 4 times a game because the same kid that was two years younger and 30 pounds lighter got the start. They alternated on every play, but Daddy's boy got to start. He started but did not score a touchdown all year and probably averaged less than 2 yards a carry. Was this the right thing to do ? No, the best player should get to start but being the best does not matter nearly as much as who your daddy is.
Neither my son nor the other kid played 8th grade football and a team that was undefeated the year before was 2 and 5 with a bunch of canceled games. My son picked football back up as a freshman, and was the only sophmore starter last season. He is an A student, one of the two fastest players on the team and a beast in the weight room but his coach still tried to run him off this season because he doesn't like me. ( I suppose he doesn't like me because I tell it like it is). I mean there were some very bad, almost unforgivable things that were said. He should have said them to me instead of taking them out on my son. My son is having a very good season as a defensive player, but he has touched the ball 6 times this season including the preseason scrimmage. I think he has scored on 3 of those touches. He ran a 60 or 70 yard TD the only time he touched the ball (he did touch the ball twice on interceptions) . The kid I was discussing above (who's dad was POed the other night) is obviously one of the best players on the team, but he gets to touch the ball 3 or 4 times a game (usually for 15 to 20 yards a pop) and he never gets in on defense. When his dad asked me about it, I told him the truth that the coaching staff will not. He has the wrong last name
Basketball has been just as screwed up. They will have one senior on the team. They change coaches every year. The coach before the last coach managed to run off the good players that would be juniors and seniors this year. I think he managed to go 12-50 in two years. He could coach his way out of a paper bag but he succeeded in running my son off. I could go into some of the things that the coach said and did to my son, but most people would believe it. There were probably grounds to go to court.
Last years coach seemed like a good guy, but apparently he was not very good at playing politics because he is gone. Now I already know what people who do not really know the truth are going to say about my comments. They will claim disallusioned parent and parent interference but the truth is I have never said a word to my sons coaches. Although I do plan on discussing some things with the basketball coach mentioned above when my son and daughter are out of school. Until then, I will hold my peace.
So there you have it. I have a feeling that the scenario described here is the same as in many other schools. The funny thing is, the schools where all this stuff happens on a daily basis are usually losing programs. They wonder why kids do not want to play for them. They wonder why they lose and lose and lose. Kids are not stupid. They learn to read the situation very well. Most kids are not going to take loads of crap to be someones lacky. The best teams play the best players regardless of who they are. This was the secret to Whitley's program under Mike Campbell. Mike played the best athletes whether regardless of what hollar they came from or what their last was.
I think this is one of the biggest obstacles that the big rural consolidated schools have to over come if they are to ever compete with the football dynasties around the state. These big schools really go lacking in the ability to make all the students and parents feel like they are a part of something special in their community. There is no community in these big schools. In any given year, there are between 1200 and 1400 students at Whitley High. Whitley probably has 30 varsity football players which would break down something like 8 seniors, 8 juniors and 14 sophmores. In basketball, I think there will be one senior, two juniors and the remainder sophmores and freshmen. I really think one of the big problems is that kids and just as importantly their parents feel alienated by the schools. Most people are not willing to put in the time and money required to be on teams when they know that they are probably not going to get a fair shot. Whats the use?
My son has always been one of the better athletes in his class, but even being the best does not garantee a fair shot. He has encountered what amounts to be B.S. at pretty much every level along the way. On his 6th and 7th grade football team ,even though he was a held back, very experienced, and talented player, he was forced to alternate with a kid two years younger and 30 pounds lighter because the kids dad was a principals son.
I threatened to transfer him as a sixth grader and the coached wised up. His team ended up undefeated and my son probably averaged 40 yards a carry that season. In the 7th grade, my son led an undefeated team in touchdowns although he did not start on offense and carried the ball about 4 times a game because the same kid that was two years younger and 30 pounds lighter got the start. They alternated on every play, but Daddy's boy got to start. He started but did not score a touchdown all year and probably averaged less than 2 yards a carry. Was this the right thing to do ? No, the best player should get to start but being the best does not matter nearly as much as who your daddy is.
Neither my son nor the other kid played 8th grade football and a team that was undefeated the year before was 2 and 5 with a bunch of canceled games. My son picked football back up as a freshman, and was the only sophmore starter last season. He is an A student, one of the two fastest players on the team and a beast in the weight room but his coach still tried to run him off this season because he doesn't like me. ( I suppose he doesn't like me because I tell it like it is). I mean there were some very bad, almost unforgivable things that were said. He should have said them to me instead of taking them out on my son. My son is having a very good season as a defensive player, but he has touched the ball 6 times this season including the preseason scrimmage. I think he has scored on 3 of those touches. He ran a 60 or 70 yard TD the only time he touched the ball (he did touch the ball twice on interceptions) . The kid I was discussing above (who's dad was POed the other night) is obviously one of the best players on the team, but he gets to touch the ball 3 or 4 times a game (usually for 15 to 20 yards a pop) and he never gets in on defense. When his dad asked me about it, I told him the truth that the coaching staff will not. He has the wrong last name
Basketball has been just as screwed up. They will have one senior on the team. They change coaches every year. The coach before the last coach managed to run off the good players that would be juniors and seniors this year. I think he managed to go 12-50 in two years. He could coach his way out of a paper bag but he succeeded in running my son off. I could go into some of the things that the coach said and did to my son, but most people would believe it. There were probably grounds to go to court.
Last years coach seemed like a good guy, but apparently he was not very good at playing politics because he is gone. Now I already know what people who do not really know the truth are going to say about my comments. They will claim disallusioned parent and parent interference but the truth is I have never said a word to my sons coaches. Although I do plan on discussing some things with the basketball coach mentioned above when my son and daughter are out of school. Until then, I will hold my peace.
So there you have it. I have a feeling that the scenario described here is the same as in many other schools. The funny thing is, the schools where all this stuff happens on a daily basis are usually losing programs. They wonder why kids do not want to play for them. They wonder why they lose and lose and lose. Kids are not stupid. They learn to read the situation very well. Most kids are not going to take loads of crap to be someones lacky. The best teams play the best players regardless of who they are. This was the secret to Whitley's program under Mike Campbell. Mike played the best athletes whether regardless of what hollar they came from or what their last was.
10-01-2007, 11:47 PM
I just made technical edit to correct spelling and punctuation
10-02-2007, 12:04 AM
Letcher Central
10-02-2007, 12:04 AM
Great post Possum. I totally understand everything you have said and couldn't agree more with your opinions. I hate how kids are pissed on for those very reasons. I just don't understand how someone can do another child like that and look at themselves in the mirror.
10-02-2007, 01:14 AM
Grizz,
It is difficult for many people to believe that this stuff goes on to the degree that it does. I have seen an awful lot of it over the years. I would like to hear from some of the other mountain schools. I think it is probably worse in the mountain schools because in many of the mountain communities the school system is the biggest employer and often the best paying option in the area. Everything in the school system is determined by politics. I think there is probably a good book to be written on this stuff.
As I said, my son is one of the better athletes in this county and he has continually had difficulties of this kind. Students with less ability or with parents that will take it lying down are just out of luck.
It is difficult for many people to believe that this stuff goes on to the degree that it does. I have seen an awful lot of it over the years. I would like to hear from some of the other mountain schools. I think it is probably worse in the mountain schools because in many of the mountain communities the school system is the biggest employer and often the best paying option in the area. Everything in the school system is determined by politics. I think there is probably a good book to be written on this stuff.
As I said, my son is one of the better athletes in this county and he has continually had difficulties of this kind. Students with less ability or with parents that will take it lying down are just out of luck.
10-02-2007, 08:32 PM
This is the reason I'm not a head coach somewhere right now. I play the players who are going to respect what we are doing and will give us the best chance to win the game no matter what sport your playing. I don't play politics and I never will and that's why I will never coach. I was 6'0 and 150 pounds in high school but I could play and the coaches there played the best players they had and did not play politics. If you can play they have to play you or they will look like a total A**. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying play someone that has a sh*tting attitude and think they can do what they want. It doesn't work that way either for me.
10-02-2007, 09:39 PM
LCC in a big way
10-03-2007, 12:09 AM
Here is the CalPreps Projection and a link to the site
Letcher County Central (Whitesburg, KY) at Whitley County (Williamsburg, KY), 7:30pm [projection: Letcher County Central (Whitesburg, KY) 35-26]
http://www.calpreps.com/2007/week_Kentucky_5.htm
Letcher County Central (Whitesburg, KY) at Whitley County (Williamsburg, KY), 7:30pm [projection: Letcher County Central (Whitesburg, KY) 35-26]
http://www.calpreps.com/2007/week_Kentucky_5.htm
10-03-2007, 02:37 AM
(This post was last modified: 10-03-2007, 02:42 AM by Possum Bait.)
FormerAllAmerica,
The best coaches, those that eventually establish themselves as long term winners, play the best players just like you said. Coaches are human, however; which means they often succum to the political pressure that is applied to them in some very heavy ways. The truth is, the only thing that can cost a coach his job quicker than losing, is making the wrong political enemies.
There are certain kids that come through that are so connected to the superintendent's office that a wrong word by the coach can cost him his job.
In truth, most of the time, there is a some type of compromise that the coach has to come to, in his own mind. These compromises usually involve issues that do not cost the coach a win. The coach simply finds a way to put the connected kid in a glory role. This often involves stacking a kids stats, in any way possible. For example, there are many goal line situations that arise, where the coach can call anyones number on a play, and be assured that his team will score. In these situations, the connected kid is going to get the ball time and time again. The other prime example is handing the ball to the connected kid again and again in blowout games. In these cases, the proud Daddy can see his son's 200 yards rushing and 3 touchdowns in the paper and everyone is happy.
These situations do not cost the coach a win, but they cost him the respect of his players. The kids understand that instead of doing the right thing and spreading the glory out amongst many deserving players or playing younger kids to develop their game skills, the coach is making sure that Daddy's boy gets his name in the paper.
Another situation, where a lot of this stuff comes to the surface, involves disciplinary type situations, where the coach is lighter on the connected kid than he would have been on another kid.
An even more common situation simply involves the coaches disposition towards different players. In these situations, the coach kisses up to the connected kid and treats other kids indifferently.
The issues above all reflect the coaches favortism toward a connected player, but a much more damaging situation arises, when a coach intentionally treats a certain kid poorly because the powers that be or the coach himself does not like a kid's dad or someone else in his family. This is a very common situation tha happens all the time. Sometimes, especially here in the mountains, this type of situation may involve generations of bad blood. Often coaches will find themselves involved in fueds or political wars that they would have never dreamed even existed. In these cases, the coach has to be especially careful because the good guys and bad guys often change roles with new elections.
Another killer in rural programs, that coaches often over look, occurs when they treat one kid poorly or unfairly. The coach should know that, at least here in the mountains, that a poorly treated kids entire family will often become life long enemies of the coach. People that the coach does not even know will become his bitter enemy overnight. A coach can never tell when a certain family might produce the next Andre Woodson or Tim Couch. If the coach has done in a brother or cousin in the past, he can be assured that the next Tim Couch will be on a cross town rivals roster.
Kids are smart enough to pick up on issues like this and it always causes chemistry problems on the team. A coach may get by with this kind of stuff against weaker teams, but when there is actual contest the team with the best chemisrty will prevail.
Coaches that prevail over many years, stay the course, do their best to play the best players, treat all their players and parents with dignity, always be forth right and always be completely honest. The political pressures of the day may make this difficult at times, but in the long run a coach can never go wrong by doing the right thing.
The best coaches, those that eventually establish themselves as long term winners, play the best players just like you said. Coaches are human, however; which means they often succum to the political pressure that is applied to them in some very heavy ways. The truth is, the only thing that can cost a coach his job quicker than losing, is making the wrong political enemies.
There are certain kids that come through that are so connected to the superintendent's office that a wrong word by the coach can cost him his job.
In truth, most of the time, there is a some type of compromise that the coach has to come to, in his own mind. These compromises usually involve issues that do not cost the coach a win. The coach simply finds a way to put the connected kid in a glory role. This often involves stacking a kids stats, in any way possible. For example, there are many goal line situations that arise, where the coach can call anyones number on a play, and be assured that his team will score. In these situations, the connected kid is going to get the ball time and time again. The other prime example is handing the ball to the connected kid again and again in blowout games. In these cases, the proud Daddy can see his son's 200 yards rushing and 3 touchdowns in the paper and everyone is happy.
These situations do not cost the coach a win, but they cost him the respect of his players. The kids understand that instead of doing the right thing and spreading the glory out amongst many deserving players or playing younger kids to develop their game skills, the coach is making sure that Daddy's boy gets his name in the paper.
Another situation, where a lot of this stuff comes to the surface, involves disciplinary type situations, where the coach is lighter on the connected kid than he would have been on another kid.
An even more common situation simply involves the coaches disposition towards different players. In these situations, the coach kisses up to the connected kid and treats other kids indifferently.
The issues above all reflect the coaches favortism toward a connected player, but a much more damaging situation arises, when a coach intentionally treats a certain kid poorly because the powers that be or the coach himself does not like a kid's dad or someone else in his family. This is a very common situation tha happens all the time. Sometimes, especially here in the mountains, this type of situation may involve generations of bad blood. Often coaches will find themselves involved in fueds or political wars that they would have never dreamed even existed. In these cases, the coach has to be especially careful because the good guys and bad guys often change roles with new elections.
Another killer in rural programs, that coaches often over look, occurs when they treat one kid poorly or unfairly. The coach should know that, at least here in the mountains, that a poorly treated kids entire family will often become life long enemies of the coach. People that the coach does not even know will become his bitter enemy overnight. A coach can never tell when a certain family might produce the next Andre Woodson or Tim Couch. If the coach has done in a brother or cousin in the past, he can be assured that the next Tim Couch will be on a cross town rivals roster.
Kids are smart enough to pick up on issues like this and it always causes chemistry problems on the team. A coach may get by with this kind of stuff against weaker teams, but when there is actual contest the team with the best chemisrty will prevail.
Coaches that prevail over many years, stay the course, do their best to play the best players, treat all their players and parents with dignity, always be forth right and always be completely honest. The political pressures of the day may make this difficult at times, but in the long run a coach can never go wrong by doing the right thing.
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