[RunItUpTheGut]

I agree that science needs to push on with the development of clean renewable energy. I just do not believe we need to risk the downfall of our society to do it. As you mention, EPA regs have throttled industry and with that has gone the money necessary for research and development. While incredibly, we are closing coal fired generating stations at an alarming rate. IMO, even though we are short on funding, Obama has been willing to sacrifice the well being of this nation by investing in green energy anyway in taking away from other spending such as defense. And I'm not speaking of military hardware so much either, but the number of servicemen and their state of readiness as well.

We have time to develop clean renewable energy, however, those alternatives do not yet exist. And in any event, with only a few of the major players willing to sacrifice anyway, rushing this country into financial ruin won't change a thing except to take us out of the process to make the discoveries you mention.

This is my entire argument in one sentence.

I could care less about coal itself.

I do care about the replacement of jobs and what we need to do to keep this state from falling into a ghost town.

We are liable to see our electoral votes drop if things keep progressing.

[TheRealThing]

This is my entire argument in one sentence.

I could care less about coal itself.

I do care about the replacement of jobs and what we need to do to keep this state from falling into a ghost town.

We are liable to see our electoral votes drop if things keep progressing.

They'll never understand until the day comes when they open that electric bill Run. And BTW, the expensive electrical power your talking about will be regulated. A family of four will be allowed to use so much and past that we're talking about fines and levies here. I do not believe that most people are willing to take the time to understand the industry that supports coal, which is in turn used to make cheap affordable electricity.

Just for example take only one company, Whayne supply. They employ over 1,000 in Kentucky alone and not counting their high paying jobs are responsible for millions in business each year in this state. That does not take into consideration all the heavy equipment operators, transportation, fuel, insurance, vendors and support spin offs. Of course, things like advertising, utilities consumption, construction and development, building maintenance and the like are a completely separate animal.

It does not matter how bleedy the hearts of liberals become, in this country all commerce is in some way related to the energy field. One cannot avoid it, right now gas is cheap and economic indicators are rising because of it. I believe if the left wing does somehow manage to idle the fossil fuels industry, they will have killed this land more surely than Nikita Kruschev could have hoped for in his wildest dreams. We are unbelievably, still the world's premier super power. And we are a nation built on cheap energy. By all means let's let the energy field take us to the next level, however, just saying it won't make it so and neither will a ton of new regs. Like I said, we have to survive until we get to that point. The good news is that in the meantime, our industrial community are the cleanest on the entire planet and getting better. Still, that debate is moot until and unless Russia, China, and India get on board with all this and they have not as yet.

[RunItUpTheGut]

They'll never understand until the day comes when they open that electric bill Run. And BTW, the expensive electrical power your talking about will be regulated. A family of four will be allowed to use so much and past that we're talking about fines and levies here. I do not believe that most people are willing to take the time to understand the industry that supports coal, which is in turn used to make cheap affordable electricity.

Just for example take only one company, Whayne supply. They employ over 1,000 in Kentucky alone and not counting their high paying jobs are responsible for millions in business each year in this state. That does not take into consideration all the heavy equipment operators, transportation, fuel, insurance, vendors and support spin offs. Of course, things like advertising, utilities consumption, construction and development, building maintenance and the like are a completely separate animal.

It does not matter how bleedy the hearts of liberals become, in this country all commerce is in some way related to the energy field. One cannot avoid it, right now gas is cheap and economic indicators are rising because of it. I believe if the left wing does somehow manage to idle the fossil fuels industry, they will have killed this land more surely than Nikita Kruschev could have hoped for in his wildest dreams. We are unbelievably, still the world's premier super power. And we are a nation built on cheap energy. By all means let's let the energy field take us to the next level, however, just saying it won't make it so and neither will a ton of new regs. Like I said, we have to survive until we get to that point. The good news is that in the meantime, our industrial community are the cleanest on the entire planet and getting better. Still, that debate is moot until and unless Russia, China, and India get on board with all this and they have not as yet.

Your first paragraph was something Ive considered as well.
At this rate, our electric bills will be just like a cell phone bill.

You get so many KW and after you use them, you pay a fine, or you go without heat. Wonder how many jobless citizens will choose to simply do without in January and February. It actually hurts the liberals up North then anywhere else.

And another really good point in your second paragraph. Whayne just laid off 8 or 9 employees in Corbin. A place that once employed over 200 people in this town, with really good high paying jobs (im talking 20-30 an hour) now wont even replace employees that retire and will use what they've got. I wouldn't be surprised if they have 150 employees now and that will continue to go down.

[Hoot Gibson]

Congrats, Hooter. Smartest thing you've ever posted (that I've seen). No duh. It's inspiring to see reality slowly seep into the craniums of even those of your ilk.

Really, Einstein? I am working in my second career. In my first career, I worked many years as a registered professional mining engineer. People of my ilk know more about coal mining than anybody that Obama has hired into his administration in the past seven years. Obama promised a war on coal and he has delivered on that promise.

People of your ilk who sneer at the people who became casualties in Obama's war on coal and who are willfully ignorant of the consequences of your votes are the ones with exceptionally thick craniums. All that bone takes up space that could have been put to better use.

[TheRealThing]

Really, Einstein? I am working in my second career. In my first career, I worked many years as a registered professional mining engineer. People of my ilk know more about coal mining than anybody that Obama has hired into his administration in the past seven years. Obama promised a war on coal and he has delivered on that promise.

People of your ilk who sneer at the people who became casualties in Obama's war on coal and who are willfully ignorant of the consequences of your votes are the ones with exceptionally thick craniums. All that bone takes up space that could have been put to better use.

Snarky comebacks are the liberal's stock in trade. But I would take a bit of exception to the notion that the coal industry is dying. It may be under killing assault, due to EPA regs that make it impossible for coal fired generating stations to do business without losing money though.

[Hoot Gibson]

Snarky comebacks are the liberal's stock in trade. But I would take a bit of exception to the notion that the coal industry is dying. It may be under killing assault, due to EPA regs that make it impossible for coal fired generating stations to do business without losing money though.

The reason that I say it is a dying industry is that coal is a non-renewable resource. The average thickness of the seams containing economically recoverable reserves decreases continuously because the thickest, best quality reserves are mind first.

Something that I noticed during my years working in the coal industry was that the criteria for estimating "minable and merchantable' underground coal reserves changed very little from the early 20th century to the 21st century. The minimum thickness of most reserve estimates remains unchanged at around 28 to 30 inches.

There are some exceptions to the rule. The Blue Gem seam in some parts of southeastern Kentucky contains very high quality coal with some unique characteristics and it has been mined where the seam is a few inches short of 28 inches, but the exceptions to the 28 inch limit have been rare.

The thickness of surface minable reserves is much more variable because it depends more on the price of coal rather than the geometry involved in fitting men and machines into the seam.

The mining industry in any area is by definition a dying industry because the recoverable reserves are finite, so mining operations will eventually be forced to follow the supply.

Eventually, even with President Obama out of office, economics will prevent further mining in eastern Kentucky. Mining operations will move to areas like Montana, New Mexico, Colorado, and Alaska.

The damage to the mining industry that enviromental-whackos like Obama do, besides driving costs of mining through the roof through regulation, is that they destroy the skilled workforce that coal mining requires. In the event of a national emergency, modern mines cannot quickly be re-opened, even if regulations were suspended, because skilled labor, engineers, and managers who know how to mine coal become increasingly scarce.

Training coal miners involves more time, money, and expertise than training liberal burger-flippers does. That is the insidious impact that electing elected officials like Obama into positions of power has on the coal industry. In the short term, Obama is destroying jobs, but his real goal is to destroy the industry itself.

[TheRealThing]

The reason that I say it is a dying industry is that coal is a non-renewable resource. The average thickness of the seams containing economically recoverable reserves decreases continuously because the thickest, best quality reserves are mind first.

Something that I noticed during my years working in the coal industry was that the criteria for estimating "minable and merchantable' underground coal reserves changed very little from the early 20th century to the 21st century. The minimum thickness of most reserve estimates remains unchanged at around 28 to 30 inches.

There are some exceptions to the rule. The Blue Gem seam in some parts of southeastern Kentucky contains very high quality coal with some unique characteristics and it has been mined where the seam is a few inches short of 28 inches, but the exceptions to the 28 inch limit have been rare.

The thickness of surface minable reserves is much more variable because it depends more on the price of coal rather than the geometry involved in fitting men and machines into the seam.

The mining industry in any area is by definition a dying industry because the recoverable reserves are finite, so mining operations will eventually be forced to follow the supply.

Eventually, even with President Obama out of office, economics will prevent further mining in eastern Kentucky. Mining operations will move to areas like Montana, New Mexico, Colorado, and Alaska.

The damage to the mining industry that enviromental-whackos like Obama do, besides driving costs of mining through the roof through regulation, is that they destroy the skilled workforce that coal mining requires. In the event of a national emergency, modern mines cannot quickly be re-opened, even if regulations were suspended, because skilled labor, engineers, and managers who know how to mine coal become increasingly scarce.

Training coal miners involves more time, money, and expertise than training liberal burger-flippers does. That is the insidious impact that electing elected officials like Obama into positions of power has on the coal industry. In the short term, Obama is destroying jobs, but his real goal is to destroy the industry itself.

Nice post. I was expecting Gitback to tell us all about it but, not so much as it worked out. :biggrin:

[WideRight05]

[Image: http://cdn.meme.am/instances/55927401.jpg]

[TheRealThing]

[Image: http://cdn.meme.am/instances/55927401.jpg]

Just as in the case of declaring one's self to be humble, the mutual exclusivity of the claims of liberals/Democrats, is self evident every time they open their mouth.

[64SUR]

Matt Belvins, your new Governor I wished you guys would change the title of this thread to "Obama elected Belvins for Governor. nicker:

[TheRealThing]

Matt Belvins, your new Governor I wished you guys would change the title of this thread to "Obama elected Belvins for Governor. nicker:

Insightful observation 64, and in mentioning him you did ID the top Bevin vote-getter no doubt, but the President does not deserve all the credit. Here is my 'short list.'
1) - Obama
2) - Hillary Clinton / Benghazi & email scandal
3) - Harry Reid / 2 years of backdoor deals & 6 of Congressional gridlock
4) - Nancy Pelosi / ObamaCare
5) - John Kerry / Hamas & Iran nuke deals-negotiations

We can only hope that the wave election phenomenon will continue on thru Nov 4th which will mercifully herald the soon coming end to his days as President, and the long winded speeches. I would bet money that sitting around listening to his own speeches is one of Mr Obama's favorite pastimes. Take in exemplification, his performance yesterday at the G20 when he went on and on for reportedly, between 11 and 14 minutes past the bell.

EXCERPT---
LE BOURGET, France — "Mr. President, you’re out of time.

That was the message signaled by a series of beeps — three in succession, once a minute — that rang out at least three times during President Obama’s address at the climate talks.
[ SNIP ]
Under United Nations rules, each head of government or head of state (for the United States, Mr. Obama is both) was allotted three minutes. Those other leaders kept to the time limit; Mr. Obama did not.

China’s official news agency Xinhua noted Mr. Obama’s loquaciousness, which otherwise largely escaped public notice."
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/proje...mate-talks