[LWC]

Islam, IN THEORY, is one of, if not the, most peaceful religion in the world. However, just as with Christianity, things can be taken out of context.

A few bad apples can spoil a bunch. Westboro Baptist claims to be Christian, just as Al-Qaeda claims to be Muslim. Nobody believes Westboro and hopefully nobody believes that Al-Qaeda is true peaceful Islam.

I always encourage people that come to me with questions about "so-and-so is a Christian but they do *insert immoral thing here*, why should I be one?" I encourage them to open a Bible up and read Matthew 5-7, and see what Jesus teaches. The Sermon on the Mount is full of peace, love, compassion, virtue, holiness. There is no hypocrisy, gossip, hate, scorn, sin, etc... "Christians" that choose to live a life of sin, hate others, etc... are not really Christians at all.

I will say this, after studying so many other religions, Christianity gives the most free-will. This is bad and good for the Gospel message to be spread.
Starting in about 1950, for some strange reason, salvation started being preached and taught as a stepping stone or a 1-time-thing as opposed to a walk, an everyday event. So many people believe that a person can "get saved" and then live however they want to. This has absolutely killed the Gospel witness in America.

While I do believe that a person can be assured of salvation, (Wesley-Armenians AND Calvinists believe that, which means UMC, Nazarene, Baptist, Southern Baptist, etc...) however, if America started looking through their Bibles they would see that while all CAN be saved, and God will never leave us, the definition of salvation has been misconstrued.

In the process of salvation:
1. A person has to have faith in God. Has to believe that God exists, that God sent Jesus to pay the price for the sins that we cannot pay for on our own and be in relationship with God.
2. A person has to repent. Repentance is where, IMO, the message has been so blurred. Repentance is not just being sorry for what you have done. Repentance is not "I'm so sorry, not I will go live however I want again." Repentance is a true sorrow for your sins and a genuine desire to change your life and for God to change your heart. A truly repentant person, while they may still stumble, will not have the same desire to sin. They WANT to live for Jesus and live their life for the Lord. This completes the process of justification.
3. Regeneration or rebirth, is where God changes your heart. He comes into your life and he heals your soul of wrong. For every person that says "I'm saved, now I can live however I want" I turn them to John Chapter 3.

Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.[a]”
4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”
5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You[c] must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”[d]
9 “How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.
10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things? 11 Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? 13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.[e] 14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,[f] 15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”[g]

16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. [B]19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.

Notice the bold verses: We must be born again, we must allow God to change who we are inside. Also, we have to live by the light (the truth, the Gospel, the teachings of Jesus). We cannot live as we please, in terms of sinfulness. If we have been TRULY changed by God, we should no longer want to do those things.

Also,

You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

When we find full and complete salvation, we understand that God has set us free from sin. Sin no longer has power over us. Sometimes we slip up, sometimes we stub our toes and shout curse words, sometimes we get angry and start sinning when we see someone hurting a child, woman or someone we love, it happens. However, that sin no longer holds us down, it no longer enslaves us. We can choose to walk in the light. We can choose to live our lives in peace and love and grace and mercy.
Please do not be put off by the slaves to righteousness terminology. That is basically saying, we are servants, we made the choice to serve righteousness and holiness. It is not saying that we are being forced by God to do his will, we choose to want to do these things.

[Hoot Gibson]

Christians are not "looked down upon" by very many people in this country because most Americans consider themselves to be Christians. Atheists are looked down upon by most Americans because they are a minority whose most vocal members are among the most intolerant members of our society. The hatred of Christianity in this country by a small minority is both irrational and self defeating.

Atheists seek acceptance of society while attempting to rid the landscape of religious displays symbols through the courts. This country was founded by people who (along with their forefathers) fled the religious persecution of Europe and employing religious intolerance to advance a political agenda is no way to win friends and influence people.

There are, of course exceptions, to almost every rule. Christopher Hitchens, a very liberal, talented, and well known writer, who recently died after a long bout with cancer, was probably this country's most famous atheist at the time of his death. Hitchens, unlike most well known atheists, had no trouble in distinguishing between the evil of radical Muslims who want to slaughter Jews and other infidels, and peaceful followers of Christianity and other major religions of this world.

[Stardust]

If the atheist is right, then I am not a Christian because I have mistaken beliefs, but am rather a Christian because that is what these chemicals would always do in this arrangement and at this temperature. The problem is that this atheistic assumption does the very same thing to the atheist's case for atheism. The atheist gives us an account of all things which makes it impossible for us to believe that any account of all things could possibly be true.

But no account of things can be feasible unless it provides us with the preconditions that make it possible for our "accounting" to represent genuine insight. Atheism fails to do this, and the failure is a biggy. Atheism does not allow us to have any fixed ethical standard.

[LWC]

Like I said, I always try to do the right thing. I'm definitely not an atheist, not even close, but I have been questioning my faith recently. To much bad happening to some of the best guys and family's I know, and not enough good. I just don't understand it, and I'm so sick of hearing people tell me it's "God's plan". If it's God's plan, then why does He take the best people away from their families, and leave the worst here?! I just don't get it. Kills me.

My friend, that is the HARDEST thing to explain or to give an answer that works for people. I am only 24 years old. I have only been a Senior Pastor for 1.5 years, (I have been on staff, Children's Pastor, youth leaders, Sunday school teacher, etc... for many more years). It is VERY difficult to come into someone's home after their family member passes away and give words of wisdom. In those moments, there isn't really anything good to say other than "I'm sorry for your loss, I love you, I am here for you and if you want, I will pray with you." I always try to get the family members to tell me what happened, so they can come to terms with it a little more, even though it is hard.

I do not start quoting scriptures, I do not say it was God's will, I do not even say that things will get better. In all honesty, nobody really wants to hear those things right then. In later talks, when I come back to the home days or weeks later, we can have those conversations if they wish, but not right then. All anyone really wants is someone that cares, loves and will share in their hurt.

I have a friend that is a minister and we were having conversations about how to handle these situations and he told me something that I always carry with me. He said that he and his wife had just found out that they would never be able to have children. There were church members that worked at the doctors office/hospital/clinic they were at and they, naturally, called other church members to tell them about it. I am sure their intentions were good, you know, "keep them in your prayers", "show the pastor and family love" "be sensitive about it" etc...
They received many calls, visits, etc... and heard a lot of people say, "It was God's will" "You can always adopt" "Maybe it wasn't meant to be" "You can babysit my children anytime you want, if it will help you being around kids" and stuff like that. He had a non-believer friend that heard the news and drove many many miles to come see them. He walked in, gave them both a huge hug, cried with them, told them he was sorry that they heard the news told them, I quote, "That really suc*s".
My preacher-friend told me that after all of that happened, he immediately implemented a program teaching people how to care for people experiencing loss, hurt, shame, etc... he told them that the non-believer is the style that should be used. He thanked people for their love, prayers and being there, but he explained that sometimes less is more. The less words we use, the better we are sometimes.

Preach the Gospel at all times, and when necessary, use words."
--St. Francis of Assisi

[vundy33]

My friend, that is the HARDEST thing to explain or to give an answer that works for people. I am only 24 years old. I have only been a Senior Pastor for 1.5 years, (I have been on staff, Children's Pastor, youth leaders, Sunday school teacher, etc... for many more years). It is VERY difficult to come into someone's home after their family member passes away and give words of wisdom. In those moments, there isn't really anything good to say other than "I'm sorry for your loss, I love you, I am here for you and if you want, I will pray with you." I always try to get the family members to tell me what happened, so they can come to terms with it a little more, even though it is hard.

I do not start quoting scriptures, I do not say it was God's will, I do not even say that things will get better. In all honesty, nobody really wants to hear those things right then. In later talks, when I come back to the home days or weeks later, we can have those conversations if they wish, but not right then. All anyone really wants is someone that cares, loves and will share in their hurt.

I have a friend that is a minister and we were having conversations about how to handle these situations and he told me something that I always carry with me. He said that he and his wife had just found out that they would never be able to have children. There were church members that worked at the doctors office/hospital/clinic they were at and they, naturally, called other church members to tell them about it. I am sure their intentions were good, you know, "keep them in your prayers", "show the pastor and family love" "be sensitive about it" etc...
They received many calls, visits, etc... and heard a lot of people say, "It was God's will" "You can always adopt" "Maybe it wasn't meant to be" "You can babysit my children anytime you want, if it will help you being around kids" and stuff like that. He had a non-believer friend that heard the news and drove many many miles to come see them. He walked in, gave them both a huge hug, cried with them, told them he was sorry that they heard the news told them, I quote, "That really suc*s".
My preacher-friend told me that after all of that happened, he immediately implemented a program teaching people how to care for people experiencing loss, hurt, shame, etc... he told them that the non-believer is the style that should be used. He thanked people for their love, prayers and being there, but he explained that sometimes less is more. The less words we use, the better we are sometimes.

Preach the Gospel at all times, and when necessary, use words."
--St. Francis of Assisi

I don't mind it at all when people give their condolences when a family member or friend dies, don't mind it a bit. Even if it's what I don't want to hear, I'm courteous and always thank them...I know there's not much someone can say to it.

Only thing that gets me is when someone tells me they'll pray for me, because I haven't "found God" or whatever. Most of the time, they couldn't be more wrong.

[Jarons]

My story is very similar to wide right's. I spent much of my youth in a small church. I was very active in the church until I was having a conversation with my Sunday school teacher. She asked me if my dad went to church. I told her "no my dad has to work", he worked midnights and his off days were Thursday and Friday at the time. She started telling me how horrible of a man my dad was that he was putting work before God "he is going to Hell" is what she told me. She said this not knowing that he would rather be off and be able to go to at least one service per week. Her granddaughter was an active member of that church when she was a child, she is now and atheist. I often wonder if my Sunday school teacher's attitude toward the church make her want to believe in God. Much like wide right, that church preached salvation through guilt, "If you don't do this you're going to Hell" kind of attitude. In a strange way, I am glad I never got baptized in that church. It would have been for all the wrong reasons.
I was really angered and did not want to be around any church. Everytime I was in church I felt "judged" wondering what they were going to say about my dad or me because I didn't go to church "dressed up". For many years after that I did not even like driving by a church.
It was my wife who got me back into church. Ironically, she grew up in an agnostic/atheist family. She had never really been around a church and talked about going to church. She did not feel comfortable going without me, she knew that I used to go to church. I really did not want to go. Finally, one week I decided to go with her to shut her up. It was the best decision that I had ever made. It was a large, but I felt at home there. People made me feel welcome. I was in my happy place. Ultimately, both of us got baptized and when I left KY I was a Sunday school teacher.

To answer the question, I think people lose their belief in God and the church because of people like my Sunday school teacher. People would ask me why didn't go to church, I would tell them that I did not want to be around a bunch of hypocrites. My former preacher in Shelbyville often said that satan uses the church to keep people away from Jesus. After reading some of these posts and my experience, I can see that. I just wish that all non believers would understand that not all Christians are judgemental. I wish that I had believed that sooner.

I know it is a long post. I hope it makes sense.

[Crossbones]

I would like to say that I am a Christian. I chose to be one for me and me alone. It was a choice between me and my Lord. I chose to worship in the Freewill Baptist denomination, because I feel that is where the Lord has led me. I have a hard enough time taking care of me and my salvation and my walk with the Lord. I do not force my religion on anyone and I will sit down and talk with anyone of any faith or no faith at all. You will not change my mind and I will not try to change yours. I have met many people of many different faiths and religions, I personally believe mine to be right for me. Muslims, buddist, atheist or whatever you chose is between you and your lord. I believe everyone has judgemental personalities, for example the few that judge Christians by the way a select group act. I struggle enough daily worring about me to have to worry how someone else is living their life. I am blessed to have the right to pray and no atheist or anyone else will take that right from me. They have the right to not believe and good for them. I try to live my life by Biblical standards, first and foremost because I feel that is the way the Lord intended for me. I will not tell anyone they are going to hell because of how they live. God did not give me that authority, He is the ulitmate Judge and that is his job. I have read all post word for word and I know that some say they are not judging all Christians by the way a few hollier than thou bunch acts, but it sounds as if you all have held us all to that standard. As for the reply about if a town should be wet or dry. I do not drink, but I also have no problem with a town being wet, I understand the economics of it and it does not effect me whatsoever. More later

[vundy33]

lol man, you can think what you want, but the only Christians I hold to that crappy standard are the ones who show me they deserve to be there. I've heard those same Christians say the exact same things you're saying and every other Christian has said in this thread, but I don't decide you're the same as them unless you show me that.

Alot of the things I've said are only found in a few bad apples, but, alot of the things I mentioned are found in alot of Christians...this kind of explains it to me, seen it on Facebook.

"You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about Gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who the gave birth to a man-god who was killed, came back to life and then ascended into Heaven"

"You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of Gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of your God"

Those two quotes probably sum most Christians up for me from my experiences...there is no problem in thinking your God is the only God, or thinking that radical Muslims are evil and all that...but what gets me is when those Christians get so shook up and mad when anyone even hints at another God, or try and shrug off how many people have been absolutely destroyed because of Christianity, and religion as a whole.

I mean really, what good has religion done the world besides cause us to fight?? All I've seen it do is make a Taliban yell out "Allahu Akbar" before they blow themselves up, and make them call us dirty Jews when we're loading them in a bird for medical treatment when I'm clearly not a Jew..or be a reason behind an American troop deciding to open up on a group of civilians because they were at the wrong place at the wrong time and because they were "those damn Muslims are goin to hell anyway". That's not even to mention all of the other wars and atrocities that I haven't witnessed committed against other people all over the world in the name of religion. I'm really, really trying to find something good in it all, but I'm having a hard time at it.

[TheRealVille]

lol man, you can think what you want, but the only Christians I hold to that crappy standard are the ones who show me they deserve to be there. I've heard those same Christians say the exact same things you're saying and every other Christian has said in this thread, but I don't decide you're the same as them unless you show me that.

Alot of the things I've said are only found in a few bad apples, but, alot of the things I mentioned are found in alot of Christians...this kind of explains it to me, seen it on Facebook.

"You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about Gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who the gave birth to a man-god who was killed, came back to life and then ascended into Heaven"

"You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of Gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of your God"

Those two quotes probably sum most Christians up for me from my experiences...there is no problem in thinking your God is the only God, or thinking that radical Muslims are evil and all that...but what gets me is when those Christians get so shook up and mad when anyone even hints at another God, or try and shrug off how many people have been absolutely destroyed because of Christianity, and religion as a whole.

I mean really, what good has religion done the world besides cause us to fight?? All I've seen it do is make a Taliban yell out "Allahu Akbar" before they blow themselves up, and make them call us dirty Jews when we're loading them in a bird for medical treatment when I'm clearly not a Jew..or be a reason behind an American troop deciding to open up on a group of civilians because they were at the wrong place at the wrong time and because they were "those damn Muslims are goin to hell anyway". That's not even to mention all of the other wars and atrocities that I haven't witnessed committed against other people all over the world in the name of religion. I'm really, really trying to find something good in it all, but I'm having a hard time at it.

That reminds me of a couple of atheist quotes I have heard before.



"We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further. ” —Richard Dawkins

"If god doesn't like the way I live, Let him tell me, not you." unknown

"The Christian god makes man human, then burns him when he acts like one."

[LWC]

Vundy, you seem like a guy that likes things straight, so I will shoot straight with you.

If you can honestly claim:

I mean really, what good has religion done the world besides cause us to fight?? All I've seen it do is make a Taliban yell out "Allahu Akbar" before they blow themselves up, and make them call us dirty Jews when we're loading them in a bird for medical treatment when I'm clearly not a Jew..or be a reason behind an American troop deciding to open up on a group of civilians because they were at the wrong place at the wrong time and because they were "those **** Muslims are goin to **** anyway". That's not even to mention all of the other wars and atrocities that I haven't witnessed committed against other people all over the world in the name of religion. I'm really, really trying to find something good in it all, but I'm having a hard time at it.

....then you must be choosing to put on blinders to all the good done all over the world by Christians everyday. As I stated before, for every Westboro Baptist, there is a missionary living on crackers, risking their life to improve the lives of others and share the Gospel. For every person that puts on a fine pressed suit on Sunday and then lives like the world Mon.-Sat., there is a person that loves the Lord with all their heart, mind, soul and strength and loves their neighbor as much as they love themselves.

I could rattle off a bunch of charities that work all over the world, I could give stats about missionaries, I could talk about Gideons putting Bibles all over the world, I could talk about ministers that go into prisons to minister and show love to the people that nobody else seems to care about. I could even talk about the sweet old ladies in the churches that we all know that would give you the shirt off their back if you needed it.

Again, the true message of the Bible is the love that God has for us, and that we are supposed to share with each other. I often ask the question about how the world would look with no religion? I believe that it wouldn't exist. We would be killing each other, sharing diseases with each other, have no welfare system whatsoever, have no charities, etc... Everyone talks about stripping away all the morality talk and such, if we lived completely free to and from each other, who would stop rapists? Who would stop drug dealers?

We cannot simply assume that we would even know that those things are wrong. Where did we come up with what is right and wrong? Would anything be right? Would anything be wrong? Where would we come up with the law? Would we have law?

I read a book one time that talked about how governments all over the world are based off of various religious teachings. Religion, whichever dominated the particular region shaped and/or started the law and governments. Like it or not, a true sense of right and wrong has been ingrained in us, we are just choosing to want to change it.

I went off topic a little but I wrapped it all together. I have had several family members and friends serve in various branches of the military, it always seems like their morals tend to stray a bit off-course from where they previously were at home. When they come home and are honorably discharged, after a while they seem to come back a little, but they are never the same. I hear stories from them about how after being shot at a man needs a cold beer, a pretty woman and a good time. I am not trying to be an over-arching judge of what is right or wrong, I am just using their experiences to gauge where you currently are. (Please understand that I know everyone's military story is different, and I have uber-respect for service men and women.)

One buddy of mine, use to never even say the other form of dang, and now the f-word is in every sentence. He used to never drink a drop and now he gets hammered every weekend. He used to love and respect women, and now he runs around on his wife. I ask him why and he says, "I learned how truly short that life is. I better enjoy it while I am here!"

Again, I am probably allowing a few bad apples to spoil a whole bunch. I can be bad for that sometimes. I also have a friend and associate that joined the military with the intent to use the Armed Forces to be a mission field. He served his either 6 or 8 years and came back nearly the same.

I have also learned from family and friends experiences that it seems to be very tough to adjust to life after a medium-long military career. Many family and friends that I have served at least 10-12 years, some even pulled their 20. They really struggled with what do I do now that I am a 42 year old retiree? An uncle of mine that served 12 years is trying to find a mail-route to do for 8 years to get full retirement.

[LWC]

^I must be the BGR squirrel. My mind just wanders into 2-3 subjects while posting on 1 thread, lol. Sorry.

[vundy33]

lol...from what I can tell, more wrong and death and pain is caused than more right and helping people. It may be because it's not as publicized as the bad things that happen, because that's usually how everything is..only the bad is talked about and noticed. But I can't imagine any charity being able to do enough good to come even close to equaling the bad, or evening it out. Why is it possible for millions of people to die and wars to be started as a result of religion, but that same religion offers no ending to it?

Society has created the basics of what we know as right and wrong.

The military doesn't have much to do with my views, besides my views on how pathetic the average American has become, caring more for ridiculous fake things than life. My views on God come from just sitting back and watching...the things people do in the name of God, the people close to me who've died..it's just gotten worse with every year that passes. Can't get over the feeling that even if I have faith, which I do, that no matter how much I have, it won't help because as a society, we're screwed...based on what I've seen of people's actions, of course. And I can't get by the feeling that religion just gives us another "just" reason to fight and disagree with others as a whole.

Also, of course someone that's just home from deployment would like a good beer and to get laid. Everyone's tastes are different, but those are usually around the top of the list. I just wanted to get shitfaced to forget and not worry, like I always do, and because I hadn't in so long. I couldn't care less what anyone says, there's nothing wrong with it.

I agree with your friend to an extent...life is short, and so many people, especially Americans, really have no idea how quick it can be over or how much life is worth until it personally effects them. And even then, it's forgotten with time. I don't agree with being reckless, like screwing around on a girlfriend or wife and drinking like crazy..I don't consider that living life. Trust me, it gets old and will hollow you out quick. I do try and live life to it's fullest and enjoy myself because of those reasons..it's just to short, and can be over in a second. The definition of living your life to it's fullest differs alot from person to person, though.

[TheRealVille]

lol...from what I can tell, more wrong and death and pain is caused than more right and helping people. It may be because it's not as publicized as the bad things that happen, because that's usually how everything is..only the bad is talked about and noticed. But I can't imagine any charity being able to do enough good to come even close to equaling the bad, or evening it out. Why is it possible for millions of people to die and wars to be started as a result of religion, but that same religion offers no ending to it?

Society has created the basics of what we know as right and wrong.

The military doesn't have much to do with my views, besides my views on how pathetic the average American has become, caring more for ridiculous fake things than life. My views on God come from just sitting back and watching...the things people do in the name of God, the people close to me who've died..it's just gotten worse with every year that passes. Can't get over the feeling that even if I have faith, which I do, that no matter how much I have, it won't help because as a society, we're screwed...based on what I've seen of people's actions, of course. And I can't get by the feeling that religion just gives us another "just" reason to fight and disagree with others as a whole.

Also, of course someone that's just home from deployment would like a good beer and to get laid. Everyone's tastes are different, but those are usually around the top of the list. I just wanted to get shitfaced to forget and not worry, like I always do, and because I hadn't in so long. I couldn't care less what anyone says, there's nothing wrong with it.

I agree with your friend to an extent...life is short, and so many people, especially Americans, really have no idea how quick it can be over or how much life is worth until it personally effects them. And even then, it's forgotten with time. I don't agree with being reckless, like screwing around on a girlfriend or wife and drinking like crazy..I don't consider that living life. Trust me, it gets old and will hollow you out quick. I do try and live life to it's fullest and enjoy myself because of those reasons..it's just to short, and can be over in a second. The definition of living your life to it's fullest differs alot from person to person, though.

"History teaches us that no other cause has brought more death than the word of god." Giulian Buzila

[vundy33]

^^^Sadly, it's the truth. It can't be denied. I try to hope for an end to that pattern someday though.

Also, meant to add this above. I choose not to even touch the whole problem with Genesis and dinosaurs...and other things that relate.

[Crossbones]

lol man, you can think what you want, but the only Christians I hold to that crappy standard are the ones who show me they deserve to be there. I've heard those same Christians say the exact same things you're saying and every other Christian has said in this thread, but I don't decide you're the same as them unless you show me that.

Alot of the things I've said are only found in a few bad apples, but, alot of the things I mentioned are found in alot of Christians...this kind of explains it to me, seen it on Facebook.

"You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about Gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who the gave birth to a man-god who was killed, came back to life and then ascended into Heaven"

"You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of Gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of your God"

Those two quotes probably sum most Christians up for me from my experiences...there is no problem in thinking your God is the only God, or thinking that radical Muslims are evil and all that...but what gets me is when those Christians get so shook up and mad when anyone even hints at another God, or try and shrug off how many people have been absolutely destroyed because of Christianity, and religion as a whole.

I mean really, what good has religion done the world besides cause us to fight?? All I've seen it do is make a Taliban yell out "Allahu Akbar" before they blow themselves up, and make them call us dirty Jews when we're loading them in a bird for medical treatment when I'm clearly not a Jew..or be a reason behind an American troop deciding to open up on a group of civilians because they were at the wrong place at the wrong time and because they were "those damn Muslims are goin to hell anyway". That's not even to mention all of the other wars and atrocities that I haven't witnessed committed against other people all over the world in the name of religion. I'm really, really trying to find something good in it all, but I'm having a hard time at it.

As I said in my previous post. Whom ever anyone picks to be their god is their choice. I have no problem with muslims, buddist, hindo's, greeks or any other religion. My Bible speaks of the sons of god having relations with women, so I won't deny that it happened. I personally do not get outraged at other religions, I do get upset with any and all that take it to the extreme, even Christianity. There is good and bad in this ole world and in ever sector of society. I try to be the best man I can be and chose to base it off of the Holy Bible, If it is wrong, what damage could have come from it? It could have done nothing but helped me live a better life and maybe become a better person for it. From reading your post, I can see and understand that a "church" left a bad taste in your mouth. None of us are perfect, even the ones I have attended. So I let God lead me to where I felt comfortable and safe. I do hope that you find the good in it and I know that its hard, but there is good out there.

[vundy33]

^Good post. Gracias for the reply.