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02-26-2010, 06:32 PM
hypersport Wrote:I have coached and have seen games from Pikeville to Paducah. i also paid part of my way through school by officiating in western Ky. We have a great group of officials in our region from top to bottom. I have attended the state tournaments since 1971 and the 15th regional officials are among the best there.
I will grant that in all regions there are officials that need to improve, but couldn't we all at our jobs.
The best thing that we can do for officials is to make the position more attractive. If the officials were paid what it is actualy worth to do the games then more people would get involved. More training and better forms of evaluation could be enforced. Games could be assigned based on merit. Young officials could be paired with veterans to learn how to handle tough situations instead of being thrown to the lions. And if they don't make the grade then you can say thanks but no thanks. As it is we have problems because there is too much pressure on the inexperienced.
Another problem is that the schools admin. already choke for having paying 65 dollars a game for officials. Let's break that down. Leave for the game at 4:30. Travel 80 miles round trip, buy the shoes, shirts, pants, whistles, dress professionally just to walk in the gym. study for test, pay the KHSAA a fee, pay for the test, pay the assigning secretary a fee, be called nasty names, hear chants that you should be hung at the nearest tree, stop and eat on your way home, get home at 10:30, lay awake wondering if you were wrong, get up at 4:30 and head for the mines to work all day, grab your clothes and go do it all again.
Great post
02-26-2010, 08:23 PM
Former Cheerleader Wrote:After attending several games this year and reading many posts, I wonder what people think of refereeing in the region. I opinion is that it has bad on both teams. I really think more training or recruitment of new staff. Any way who is good and who is bad? Any thoughts
Cant be worse than the 14th region
02-26-2010, 08:53 PM
RingEMUP-I came on board this evening to apologize to Mr.Paintsville Tiger Fan. I couldn't sleep in the middle of the night which caused me to jump to conclusions, trouble sleeping is a problem I wish I didn't have. I apologize to him. The gentlemen in question was vice-president of officiating. Retired, I don't know? The only person ranting and raving and sounding like a person who doesn't have control of their emotions, is someone who has to have their words bleeped out for their foul language. This is a board for a majority of children and teenagers and not expletives. I hope you can say what you want without all the language.
02-26-2010, 10:31 PM
mrsportsfan Wrote:RingEMUP-I came on board this evening to apologize to Mr.Paintsville Tiger Fan. I couldn't sleep in the middle of the night which caused me to jump to conclusions, trouble sleeping is a problem I wish I didn't have. I apologize to him. The gentlemen in question was vice-president of officiating. Retired, I don't know? The only person ranting and raving and sounding like a person who doesn't have control of their emotions, is someone who has to have their words bleeped out for their foul language. This is a board for a majority of children and teenagers and not expletives. I hope you can say what you want without all the language.Its all good man.
02-27-2010, 01:27 AM
jobforacowboy Wrote:15th refs can't call there mom let alone a foul
their .......not there
02-27-2010, 04:05 AM
Refereeing is difficult since almost all of their calls are judgment calls. Hasn't anyone heard of the NFL changing the facemask rule from a judgment call of 5 or 15 yards to just 15 yards? I heard this is because the NFL wanted to make these calls easier on the referees. In basketball, referees don't have that convenience. You have three referees who judge calls differently and sometimes they stand in places to where they can't see something or they think they see something. To all of those who get angry at referees, I'm sure every fan gets upset. Yet, you have to prevent yourself from getting angry. It's difficult, but it's possible. Remember, it won't help you at all to be angry.
02-27-2010, 08:37 AM
There have been servreal good points made here that I would like to expand on. First to the point one poster made about making the job more attractive. I will correct you a little and tell you the pay for a three man game is $55 dollars not $65. We have guys in this region, that I know are refs, that drive from Phelps to Lawrence Co to call a game or drive from Paintsville to East Ridge to call a game for $55. The gas alone is a huge expense not to mention the uniform,shoes, $40 to KHSAA for licensing every year $40-50 to join the local association it is not a job anybody is getting wealthy doing. The schools really need to get on board and be willing to pay these guys the money they deserve. I have often wondered why most varsity games now are worked with a three man crew but the JV games are all two man. The JV game is a training game for players, why not make it that way for the officials. Make the JV games three man crews as well. Its gonna cost a little more but will help develop younger officials. The second point is the majority of the fans do not know the rules. This is so true. The biggest misconception here is that all contact is a foul. It is not. 10 people running full speed in a 50x85 rectangle are going to have some contact. Officials have to judge the contact if one player gained an advantge by the contact it is a foul if not the play goes on. I know these guys spend a lot of time studing the rules. They are required to attend camps and meetings prior to the season and during the season. I know they have a network were they call or email each other and discuss situations that happen in games to make sure they got the call right or if not to at least get it right the next time. I totally disagree that officials go on the floor thinking one team or another should win the game and then call the game so that team wins. I know these guys will look up a rule at half time of a game to make sure it was properly applied in the first half of a game. Bottom line is the officials try to get it right. Most fans have never seen a rule book have, never played the sport in an organized fashion but feel compelled to tell the officials how screwed up they are. It also amazes me that fans who are sitting 3/4 of the way up in the gym feel they saw something happen better than a guy standing 2feet away from it. If fans and coaches would watch the game a cheer for the tams and coach there players instead of harrasing the refs, they would probably get a better called game. The last point is that refs determine the outcome of games. Whether by cheating or making bad calls the refs cause teams to win or loose. I have in the past and still disagree with this. if some one can bring me stats from a game and show me that there team shot 100% from the floor (made every shot they took), shot 100% from the free throw line, made no turnovers and didnt let the other team do the same and lost the game, I will agree that the refs cost them the game. Untill then I will stick to the fact that players and coaches decide games. I admire guys who put on the stripes. I had a friend who refs tell me that you have to love doing it because there is no money or glory in it and I belive that to be true. I think what needs to change is the mindset of the basketball watching community and I am not sure how to accomplish that. Good luck too the 15th region refs who have been selected to call the 14th regional tournament this year. You earned your spot and you deserve to be there.
02-27-2010, 05:24 PM
runninrebs21 Wrote:I agree, some refs get all into it and think they look cool I guess, even though they look like idiots. I think that refs should have to be able to get up and down the floor, which most around here can't. There are a few good refs around here, but most of them are TERRIBLE. The Hall brothers are 2 of the worst. I know that refereeing isn't easy, and questionable calls can go either way, and refs can't get every call right. BUT, a lot of refs around here have their favorites, and they don't make OBVIOUS calls.
You base this on what? Your total number of years officiating or coaching or playing? Being a basketball player is very different from being a referee. Fans, players, and coaches look at a game through TEAM-COLORED Glasses. Mike Hall was rated Number One BY THE COACHES in the15th Region and will represent the region at the Boys State Basketball Tournament this year. He has worked hard to achieve this milestone and this honor is not given lightly by the coaches. So, again, your years of experience far out weigh all the years of experience the coaches of the 15th Region cumulatively have?!
02-27-2010, 06:23 PM
Having read this thread and having posted something already about referees on the Girlsâ Basketball Forum â this gets a bit old and redundant. All referees know â no one misses a call from the stands! It is always a good thing when teams have their fans cheering them on but referring to officials as âtrash, cheats, terrible, and etc.â does not add anything to the game of basketball. It is, in my opinion, ways for those who are completely ignorant of the rules to feel that they had a say in the gameâs outcome! It is always the same â âwalk, 3 seconds, 5 seconds, over-the-back, foul, keep his hands offâ¦â Someone who doesnât referee, explain the 5 second rule, heck, explain the 3 second rule, verticality as it applies to rebounding and block/charge! :rules: Quick now, you have less than a split second to determine the block / charge! In addition, you are not sitting in the bleachers with popcorn in one hand :popcorn:, a hot dog in the other, and your drink between your legs, you just finished running 52 feet, stopped to make the call, and, by the way, this time it counts.
Some have said that referees need more training, others say pay them what they deserve; so, first, JV games are used to teach players how to play at the high school level. JV referees are also learning how to referee at the high school level â you donât move to varsity until you show you are good enough â the same applies to referees. More training costs money and if schools had to pay more money to the referees, the schools have to raise the money â are the fans willing to pay more at the door? :lmao:
Referees in the 15th Region have for over 15 years paid for the pleasure to attend summer officiating camps in the local area and go to a hot gym and referee two or three games in a row for three days in order to better their craft. Notice I say the referees pay to officiate summer games / tournaments â they are not paid for their time or travel.
The best thing I can tell you is â donât judge an official until you have actually refereed a basketball game in his / her shoes! You would then see, it isnât as easy when you are the one responsible for enforcing and administering the rules of the gameâ¦
Some have said that referees need more training, others say pay them what they deserve; so, first, JV games are used to teach players how to play at the high school level. JV referees are also learning how to referee at the high school level â you donât move to varsity until you show you are good enough â the same applies to referees. More training costs money and if schools had to pay more money to the referees, the schools have to raise the money â are the fans willing to pay more at the door? :lmao:
Referees in the 15th Region have for over 15 years paid for the pleasure to attend summer officiating camps in the local area and go to a hot gym and referee two or three games in a row for three days in order to better their craft. Notice I say the referees pay to officiate summer games / tournaments â they are not paid for their time or travel.
The best thing I can tell you is â donât judge an official until you have actually refereed a basketball game in his / her shoes! You would then see, it isnât as easy when you are the one responsible for enforcing and administering the rules of the gameâ¦
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