[cuppett777]

so wanted to throw this out there from what maxpreps thought of th football this year.
1.MEMPHIS UNV.=DIV 2 AA
2.OAKLAND=6A
3.ENSWORTH=DIV 2 AA
4.KNOXVILLE CENTRAL=5A
5.FARRAGUT=6A
6.BRENTWOOD ACADEMY=DIV 2 AA
7.OOLTEWAH=6A
8.FRANKLIN=6A
9.TROUSDALE COUNTY=2A
10.HENRY COUNTY=5A
11.MITCHELL=5A
12.SMYRNA=6A
13.BAYLOR=DIV 2 AA
14.BELL ACADEMY=DIV 2 AA
15.ALOCA=3A (I KNOW TN IS CHANGING THINGS THIS YEAR AND HAS ALOCA AS 3A)
16.MARYSVILLE=6A

[AlcoasPaintedBridge]

This is laughable....Lets revisit this thread in about 6 weeks and see what it says then.....Knox Central? are you joking?[Image: http://smashsouthsports.org/forums/image...dumber.gif]
And mix in a spell check while your at it...ALCOA.

[cuppett777]

yea sorry, hit the wrong button ,but thats what its got go check it out..

[easyM]

yea sorry, hit the wrong button ,but thats what its got go check it out..

Thanks for the info.
I think painted bridge is :HitWall:

[Amped 88]

I don't see how Alcoa is ahead of Maryville they haven't beat them in how long.:Cheerlead

[Bobcat_Dad]

Knoxville Central suuprise's me some but not much. If Helton is back coaching I am buying. I always thought he did a good job.

Maybe this will finally be Alcoa's year to beat Maryville???

[EKUAlum05]

For the record.

Since in another thread an Alcoa fan who will remain nameless was up in arms that no KY team has ever been ranked ahead of Alcoa in a National Poll, then challenged someone to prove it.

I present last year's Rivals 100:

http://highschool.rivals.com/viewrankhs.asp?ra_key=457

Not only was St. X and Trinity ahead of Alcoa, they were ahead of everyone in the state of Tennessee.

[Stardust]

For the record.

Since in another thread an Alcoa fan who will remain nameless was up in arms that no KY team has ever been ranked ahead of Alcoa in a National Poll, then challenged someone to prove it.

I present last year's Rivals 100:

http://highschool.rivals.com/viewrankhs.asp?ra_key=457

Not only was St. X and Trinity ahead of Alcoa, they were ahead of everyone in the state of Tennessee.

:Cheerlead

[Bobcat_Dad]

Boy can't wait for the pop can band (Alcoa fans) to see this.

[cuppett777]

For the record.

Since in another thread an Alcoa fan who will remain nameless was up in arms that no KY team has ever been ranked ahead of Alcoa in a National Poll, then challenged someone to prove it.

I present last year's Rivals 100:

http://highschool.rivals.com/viewrankhs.asp?ra_key=457

Not only was St. X and Trinity ahead of Alcoa, they were ahead of everyone in the state of Tennessee.

well dont look like alcoa or maryville made that list

[EKUAlum05]

Not to be the bearer of bad news but that weak football state known as KY also made a statement in the final USA Today poll last year ranking the Top 25 teams.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/preps/foo...uper25.htm

At #13 is Louisville Trinity... a representative form that powerhouse state of Tennessee? Nowhere to be found.

[AlcoasPaintedBridge]

I wouldn't expect Alcoa to make that list...they shouldn't.
Maryville was there until the last week of the season, but you are only as good as your last game.
Trinity is deserving. next.

[AlcoasPaintedBridge]

But at least our little school of under 400 kids at that time DID make the USA Today top 25.

1989
1. Cleveland St. Ignatius (13-0)
2. Odessa, Texas Permian (16-0)
3. Fontana, Calif. (14-0)
4. Pittsburgh Upper St. Clair (15-0)
5. Rockingham, N.C. Richmond Co. (15-0)
6. East St. Louis, Ill. (14-0)
7. Hazelwood, Mo. East (14-0)
8. Farmington Hills, Mich. Harrison (13-0)
9. Anniston, Ala. (15-0)
10. Bradenton, Fla. Manatee (13-1)
11. Valdosta, Ga. (14-1)
12. Oak Lawn, Ill. Richards (14-0)
13. Middletown, N.J. South (12-0)
14. Pittsburgh Perry (13-0)
15. Walpole, Mass. (11-0)
16. Alexandria, Va. West Potomac (14-0)
17. Bakersfield, Calif. (13-0)
c 18. Honolulu St. Louis (13-0)
19. Endicott, N.Y. Union-Endicott (11-0)
20. Charleston, W. Va. Capital (12-0)
21. Louisville Trinity (14-0)
22. Baltimore Poly (10-0)
23. West Point, Miss. (13-0)
24. Alcoa, Tenn. (15-0)
25. Portsmouth, Va. Woodrow Wilson (14-0)

[grimsrud]

Not to be the bearer of bad news but that weak football state known as KY also made a statement in the final USA Today poll last year ranking the Top 25 teams.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/preps/foo...uper25.htm

At #13 is Louisville Trinity... a representative form that powerhouse state of Tennessee? Nowhere to be found.

Ever lurked on a message board before joining, and then there was that one post that got you to join? This is the one.

I’ll preface the following by saying that, when it comes to comparing Tennessee and Kentucky high school football, there is not much difference. While there is a population gap, that gap is not as great as comparing either state to a Texas, Florida, etc.

With that said, I have found it quite interesting the past few years that Kentuckians have pointed to the last few TN-KY All-Star matchups, or, in this case, last year’s national rankings, as a proxy of the quality of football in each state. Granted, we live in a what-have-you-done-for-me lately society, not to mention that message boards are contained with people of all ages, allowing each person to have his/her own definition of what “historical” means. As such, I can understand this perspective somewhat.

Nevertheless, when you get to the core of the debate, over time, and over pretty much any metric, Tennessee high school football has trumped Kentucky high school football. Whether you look at all-time all-star game results, head-to-head matchups, high school All-Americans, Division I college signees, players in the NFL, etc., there is not one metric in which Kentucky would be deemed a superior high school football state. While the top teams in each state are somewhat comparable, population is contributing largely to that small, yet apparent, disparity. Tennessee, quite frankly, has more breadth of quality programs; i.e., Tennessee has more so-called powerhouse programs, whereas Kentucky has “The Big 3” (T, X, and Male) and a couple of others (Highlands being the most prominent of that bunch). Just take a subject – albeit a fuzzy one – such as national rankings. Over the past 50 years, Kentucky has had 6 different programs make some sort of final national poll; Tennessee has had 18 different programs. Even accounting for the difference in the number of football-playing schools in each state, the ratio is heavily tilted in Tennessee’s favor.

Once again, do I think there is a big difference between the two states? No. And I do I think that bringing up current/recent results is without some merit? No. But, at the end of the day, I like to think of a theory used often in real estate or finance (the stock market in particular) called “reverting to the mean”. One’s house may have gone down in value in the past year, or one’s stock portfolio may have recently tanked in this horrible bear market we are currently experiencing. However, over the long term, real estate increases in value; stocks/mutual funds will produce returns that exceed bank savings rates over time. And, similarly, while Kentucky may have had some success in an all-star game or two recently, or had more nationally ranked programs last year, the test of time has shown that these “events” are more the exception than the rule.

Of course, all of this doesn’t amount to much when it comes to Alcoa vs. Bell County or any other future matchups between the two states, head-to-head or otherwise. But, I think cherry-picking a small segment of a time over a long period of results isn’t exactly a fair assessment of the two states. Still, great football has been played between these two states. While there are feathers in Tennessee’s cap on a more recent basis (the MBA-Trinity series comes to mind), Kentucky has had a few itself. I remember, in 1991, when Tennessee had three classes, Tennessee’s eventual AA (Brentwood Academy) and AAA (Oak Ridge) champs each only had one loss – to a Paducah Tilghman squad that wasn’t even state champs in Kentucky that year.

One more note – the early MaxPreps ratings are seriously flawed. While the first three are fairly legitimate candidates for Tennessee, there is some serious overrating occurring, particularly with Knoxville Central and Trousdale County, and some likely underrating as well (Alcoa, among others).

[Benchwarmer]

What happened to the Tenn. and KY high school all star football games that was played every year?

[EKUAlum05]

Ever lurked on a message board before joining, and then there was that one post that got you to join? This is the one.

grimsrud,
First of all thank you for the very intelligent and thought out post. I know you said you have only been lurking, but after work like this I can only hope that you will continue to post more often and bring some much needed perspective into on-going debates.

With that said I think you missed the intention of the point I was making. I totally agree with your statement that the two states are very close, in fact I would probably go so far as to give Tennessee a slight advantage as evident with the larger number of D-1 prospects the state has produced. The reason I posted this was due to an Alcoa fan on another thread who openly asked for someone to prove that ANY Kentucky team has been ranked ahead of their beloved F5 at any time. Not only did I then attempt to disprove their viewpoint that "Kentucky football is weak", but I did it by producing the most recent national ranking from the season's end last year.

Kentucky football, in terms of National spotlight, is very top heavy. Trinity and St. X have dominated Kentucky large school football for years, and even though Kentuckians talk about "The Big 3", Male has only been in the same league of X and T in sporadic bursts. Ft. Thomas Highlands is as good as it gets IMO, pound for poud. Highlands has an enrollment less than 700 students (3A in KY), yet they typically are a Top 25 calibur team Nationally. After those three teams Kentucky has several top tier programs for their classification, schools that would dominate in less talent rich states, but schools who would be less competitive then they are in other states (Bowling Green, Bell County, Belfry, Newport Central Catholic, Danville, Covington Catholic, Ft. Campbell, Louisville Central, Breathitt County, Male, Henry Clay, etc).

The Kentuvky/Tennessee game has never been a good indicator of state's individual power. Usually the elite level prospects did not participate, and plus on the whole it wasn't representative of the state's "better teams". When I think of Alcoa, Maryville, Montgomery Bell, Highlands, Trinity, and St. X, it isn't the number of college prospects the schools produce (which for the most part the KY-TENN game was predicated on), I think about teams who win with discipline, balance, and players who are properly developed by coaches. Memphis White Station or Knoxville Catholic has probably produced more D-1 players then any team in the state of Kentucky, but as evident by their trophy cases, that doesn't translate to being an "Elite team".

[EKUAlum05]

What happened to the Tenn. and KY high school all star football games that was played every year?

Financially didn't make sense. Attenence down + Higher cost= Financial Loss.

[Benchwarmer]

Financially didn't make sense. Attenence down + Higher cost= Financial Loss.

Wasn't it Tenn. that didn't sign the contract?

[EKUAlum05]

Wasn't it Tenn. that didn't sign the contract?

That may be the case, but the writing has been on the wall for a decade. I think it was just a matter of who would make the first move and take the criticism.

[grimsrud]

grimsrud,
First of all thank you for the very intelligent and thought out post. I know you said you have only been lurking, but after work like this I can only hope that you will continue to post more often and bring some much needed perspective into on-going debates.............

Good stuff. I may not get into too many specific team discussions (the Alcoa/Bell County thread is certainly entertaining though), but I'll look around for awhile. I joined the "other" KY site six years ago but am disappointed I didn't find this one sooner; this board is much more lively and not as vanilla.

For what it's worth, I have done quite a bit of research of national rankings. While I think they have to be taken with a grain of salt, considering the sheer number of teams one would have to rank/rate to get a Top 25, I do enjoy seeing how the so-called experts have rated teams from different states over the the past half-century. Maybe you have seen these, but if not...

National Rankings
Tennessee Facts and Figures
Kentucky Facts and Figures

[Fiftyishfootballmom]

From an Alcoa fan: I wish for a great, injury free game on Friday between Bell County and Alcoa. I know that all of us parents and fans of players which a great effort by all. To me, all these stat's don't matter, I hope that each player (Bell Co and Alcoa) is able to give their best effort and be proud of what they accomplished at the end of the game so they can hold their heads high. Looking forward to a great game.

[jetpilot]

Ever lurked on a message board before joining, and then there was that one post that got you to join? This is the one.

I’ll preface the following by saying that, when it comes to comparing Tennessee and Kentucky high school football, there is not much difference. While there is a population gap, that gap is not as great as comparing either state to a Texas, Florida, etc.

With that said, I have found it quite interesting the past few years that Kentuckians have pointed to the last few TN-KY All-Star matchups, or, in this case, last year’s national rankings, as a proxy of the quality of football in each state. Granted, we live in a what-have-you-done-for-me lately society, not to mention that message boards are contained with people of all ages, allowing each person to have his/her own definition of what “historical” means. As such, I can understand this perspective somewhat.

Nevertheless, when you get to the core of the debate, over time, and over pretty much any metric, Tennessee high school football has trumped Kentucky high school football. Whether you look at all-time all-star game results, head-to-head matchups, high school All-Americans, Division I college signees, players in the NFL, etc., there is not one metric in which Kentucky would be deemed a superior high school football state. While the top teams in each state are somewhat comparable, population is contributing largely to that small, yet apparent, disparity. Tennessee, quite frankly, has more breadth of quality programs; i.e., Tennessee has more so-called powerhouse programs, whereas Kentucky has “The Big 3” (T, X, and Male) and a couple of others (Highlands being the most prominent of that bunch). Just take a subject – albeit a fuzzy one – such as national rankings. Over the past 50 years, Kentucky has had 6 different programs make some sort of final national poll; Tennessee has had 18 different programs. Even accounting for the difference in the number of football-playing schools in each state, the ratio is heavily tilted in Tennessee’s favor.

Once again, do I think there is a big difference between the two states? No. And I do I think that bringing up current/recent results is without some merit? No. But, at the end of the day, I like to think of a theory used often in real estate or finance (the stock market in particular) called “reverting to the mean”. One’s house may have gone down in value in the past year, or one’s stock portfolio may have recently tanked in this horrible bear market we are currently experiencing. However, over the long term, real estate increases in value; stocks/mutual funds will produce returns that exceed bank savings rates over time. And, similarly, while Kentucky may have had some success in an all-star game or two recently, or had more nationally ranked programs last year, the test of time has shown that these “events” are more the exception than the rule.

Of course, all of this doesn’t amount to much when it comes to Alcoa vs. Bell County or any other future matchups between the two states, head-to-head or otherwise. But, I think cherry-picking a small segment of a time over a long period of results isn’t exactly a fair assessment of the two states. Still, great football has been played between these two states. While there are feathers in Tennessee’s cap on a more recent basis (the MBA-Trinity series comes to mind), Kentucky has had a few itself. I remember, in 1991, when Tennessee had three classes, Tennessee’s eventual AA (Brentwood Academy) and AAA (Oak Ridge) champs each only had one loss – to a Paducah Tilghman squad that wasn’t even state champs in Kentucky that year.

One more note – the early MaxPreps ratings are seriously flawed. While the first three are fairly legitimate candidates for Tennessee, there is some serious overrating occurring, particularly with Knoxville Central and Trousdale County, and some likely underrating as well (Alcoa, among others).

Excellent! :Thumbs:

[EKUAlum05]

Good stuff. I may not get into too many specific team discussions (the Alcoa/Bell County thread is certainly entertaining though), but I'll look around for awhile. I joined the "other" KY site six years ago but am disappointed I didn't find this one sooner; this board is much more lively and not as vanilla.

For what it's worth, I have done quite a bit of research of national rankings. While I think they have to be taken with a grain of salt, considering the sheer number of teams one would have to rank/rate to get a Top 25, I do enjoy seeing how the so-called experts have rated teams from different states over the the past half-century. Maybe you have seen these, but if not...

National Rankings
Tennessee Facts and Figures
Kentucky Facts and Figures

Thanks for the links! I have not actually seen this site but it is very helpful.

Is there a specific ranking system you put more stock into then others? Nationally it seems that USA Today's Super 25 seems to be the Holy Grail.

On a "state" basis I have always been a fan of the Massey Ratings (although his site isn't nearly as navigable as it used to be). Kentucky primarily has 3 ranking systems (Lit, Cantrall, and AP) and all three are severly flawed due to either human error (AP) or a skewed "magical number" in the computer ratings. Massey seems to take the bias out that causes the inherant problems with the other systems.

[grimsrud]

Thanks for the links! I have not actually seen this site but it is very helpful.

Is there a specific ranking system you put more stock into then others? Nationally it seems that USA Today's Super 25 seems to be the Holy Grail.

On a "state" basis I have always been a fan of the Massey Ratings (although his site isn't nearly as navigable as it used to be). Kentucky primarily has 3 ranking systems (Lit, Cantrall, and AP) and all three are severly flawed due to either human error (AP) or a skewed "magical number" in the computer ratings. Massey seems to take the bias out that causes the inherant problems with the other systems.

I think Massey is the best, too. Any of them can have holes that can be poked, but such is the nature of ratings. I mean, if there is controversy surrounding the BCS for 120 college teams, there is going to be uproar about the ratings for 10,000+ high school teams on a national basis. My contention about national polls/ratings is, while the Top 25 (or whatever number) across the country can easily be questioned, they all do a pretty good job of identifying the best teams in each of the states.

The one thing that can be said about ratings, though, as they have to be getting better, given the increase in number of intra-state matchups. You have your natural border wars (such as TN-KY) that have always occurred, and now we have events like the Herbstreit Ohio vs USA Challenege, made-for-ESPN games (e.g., Hoover vs. Nease, De La Salle vs. Evangel Christian), etc. With all of these teams playing each other, it gives the ratings a little more credibility, as the relative powers of each state can be quantified by such matchups.