[Truth]

Obama seems to want, or at least he seems to preach (whether sincere or not), not just equality of opportunity but equality of result. Of course, many would define the latter as, at the least, quasi-socialism. It is also impossible in a free (I said "free") society.

Freedom of opportunity sounds good. However, it is not remotely possible. I can cite many facts indicating that that is the case. However, to cut down on the oration, I'll take a simple example.

Let's take the healthy child from a well-to-do family (not necessarily millionaires but a mother and father are both present in the home) who has an IQ of 120 (not brilliant but pretty good) and whose parents discipline him/her, love him/her, love each other, and motivate him/her to succeed. He/She will attend a good college, probably a graduate school, and will graduate from both.

Now, let's take a poor sickly minority child who doesn't have a father in the home, has an IQ of around 75, has no positive motivation, has no positive influences, and is the member of a third generation welfare family. He/She doesn't attend school on a remotely regular basis and will likely quit school as soon as possible. He/She will, most likely, excel over the first child only in number of offspring.

Now, just how are these two individuals, both of whom are actually very typical examples of our population, going to have an equal chance to succeed?

It is not possible. I know it. You know it. And, Obama knows it (but he wants votes and this latter group is his core constituency).

I won't get into Obama's pipe dream (probably an applicable term) of equality of result. If equality of result were remotely attainable, I'd be pitching today for the Texas Rangers and some of you may have just signed with Calipari and UK. Silly? Of course. But this is Obama's "line"- not mine. I live in the real world.

And, the above is, though not politically correct, the truth.

[Memo Luna]

Obama seems to want, or at least he seems to preach (whether sincere or not), not just equality of opportunity but equality of result. Of course, many would define the latter as, at the least, quasi-socialism. It is also impossible in a free (I said "free") society.

Freedom of opportunity sounds good. However, it is not remotely possible. I can cite many facts indicating that that is the case. However, to cut down on the oration, I'll take a simple example.

Let's take the healthy child from a well-to-do family (not necessarily millionaires but a mother and father are both present in the home) who has an IQ of 120 (not brilliant but pretty good) and whose parents discipline him/her, love him/her, love each other, and motivate him/her to succeed. He/She will attend a good college, probably a graduate school, and will graduate from both.

Now, let's take a poor sickly minority child who doesn't have a father in the home, has an IQ of around 75, has no positive motivation, has no positive influences, and is the member of a third generation welfare family. He/She doesn't attend school on a remotely regular basis and will likely quit school as soon as possible. He/She will, most likely, excel over the first child only in number of offspring.

Now, just how are these two individuals, both of whom are actually very typical examples of our population, going to have an equal chance to succeed?

It is not possible. I know it. You know it. And, Obama knows it (but he wants votes and this latter group is his core constituency).

I won't get into Obama's pipe dream (probably an applicable term) of equality of result. If equality of result were remotely attainable, I'd be pitching today for the Texas Rangers and some of you may have just signed with Calipari and UK. Silly? Of course. But this is Obama's "line"- not mine. I live in the real world.

And, the above is, though not politically correct, the truth.

Amen. The truth is often not politically correct. Unfortunately, we live in a time where political correctness wins out over truth. But it doesn't change the reality.

[nky]

Kind of like no child left behind .............. Schools can open many doors for students not all of them will be motivated enough to walk though

[Truth]

Kind of like no child left behind .............. Schools can open many doors for students not all of them will be motivated enough to walk though

Good analogy. Several years ago the superintendent of a fairly large Kentucky school district told me that, given enough time, any student can master anything.

With this kind of leadership, it is no wonder that our public schools are in the shape they are in.

[Beetle01]

IQ of 75? Thats borderline mental retardation.

That's 1/3 of what most people on here think their IQ is.

[Granny Bear]

^
what?

[LWC]

I believe in equality of opportunity, not forced outcome. HOWEVER, it is very obvious that if SOME were not forced into certain outcomes, that prejudice, sexism and racism would prevail.

With that said, I still do not ever want to force outcomes.

[TheRealThing]

Good analogy. Several years ago the superintendent of a fairly large Kentucky school district told me that, given enough time, any student can master anything.

With this kind of leadership, it is no wonder that our public schools are in the shape they are in.

Here's the way I heard it put today; "You can't legislate behavior." That quote is in reference to NYC Mayor Bloomberg's proposal to eliminate surgary drinks in excess of 16 ounces there in New York City. People are going to make choices and very often those choices will be destructive. Unfortunately that is human nature. For example, I have often heard the bleeding hearts advocating for reaching out to the unfortunates among us with all manner of gifts, from food to lodging to cell phones, while many times bringing up the homeless problem we have in America.

I have always wondered why folks don't realize the fact that the 'homeless' could suddenly find themselves in the 'welfare lap of luxury' mere minutes after a visit to a social services office. So, the question to me is, why are they out there on the street? Answer, because that's where they want to be. People are going to make choices no rational line of thought can justify or even understand. We shouldn't be trying to regulate how much pop people drink. Further, the federal government is not an all encompassing, social insurance policy that guarantees happiness to every citizen. In other words, we can't pass legislation that guarantees one's very own slice of the American Pie. You have to work for that. We shouldn't be trying to legislate morality either, but we're doing it anyway.

We are witnessing America's decent into madness, majoring in minors, while China is stealing the company store. As we borrow nearly .50 cents of every dollar we spend, Henry Kissinger said the following; "China will be drafted into leadership at an accelerating pace because of the ongoing paralysis in the West. America," he put it politely, "is absorbed in a debate over the role of government and the sources of vitality in the United States; over how much government we should have and who should pay for it." Europe is gripped by both "a financial and conceptual crisis, suspended between a national framework and its substitute."

When our economy collapses, our system of finance and ALL wealth, will collapse with it. Everything associated with the dollar would no longer exist. Our position with China has flip-flopped, China is now the world's major creditor and as a result finds itself ready to assume the leadership role. And America, up to it's eyeballs in astromonic debt, when military pensions, social security, government pensions, medicare/medicade, student loans and aid and ObamaCare etc. are factored in.

The NFL team that wins the Super Bowl doesn't extend "equal opportunity" to all players because the coaches know they cannot expect "equality of result."
The more I see what is coming toward our nation, the more I am convinced that 4 more years of the Obama nightmare will end it for us.

[TheRealVille]

Here's the way I heard it put today; "You can't legislate behavior." That quote is in reference to NYC Mayor Bloomberg's proposal to eliminate surgary drinks in excess of 16 ounces there in New York City. People are going to make choices and very often those choices will be destructive. Unfortunately that is human nature. For example, I have often heard the bleeding hearts advocating for reaching out to the unfortunates among us with all manner of gifts, from food to lodging to cell phones, while many times bringing up the homeless problem we have in America.

I have always wondered why folks don't realize the fact that the 'homeless' could suddenly find themselves in the 'welfare lap of luxury' mere minutes after a visit to a social services office. So, the question to me is, why are they out there on the street? Answer, because that's where they want to be. People are going to make choices no rational line of thought can justify or even understand. We shouldn't be trying to regulate how much pop people drink. Further, the federal government is not an all encompassing, social insurance policy that guarantees happiness to every citizen. In other words, we can't pass legislation that guarantees one's very own slice of the American Pie. You have to work for that. We shouldn't be trying to legislate morality either, but we're doing it anyway.

We are witnessing America's decent into madness, majoring in minors, while China is stealing the company store. As we borrow nearly .50 cents of every dollar we spend, Henry Kissinger said the following; "China will be drafted into leadership at an accelerating pace because of the ongoing paralysis in the West. America," he put it politely, "is absorbed in a debate over the role of government and the sources of vitality in the United States; over how much government we should have and who should pay for it." Europe is gripped by both "a financial and conceptual crisis, suspended between a national framework and its substitute."

When our economy collapses, our system of finance and ALL wealth, will collapse with it. Everything associated with the dollar would no longer exist. Our position with China has flip-flopped, China is now the world's major creditor and as a result finds itself ready to assume the leadership role. And America, up to it's eyeballs in astromonic debt, when military pensions, social security, government pensions, medicare/medicade, student loans and aid and ObamaCare etc. are factored in.

The NFL team that wins the Super Bowl doesn't extend "equal opportunity" to all players because the coaches know they cannot expect "equality of result."
The more I see what is coming toward our nation, the more I am convinced that 4 more years of the Obama nightmare will end it for us.

Kind of odd hearing this come from you. You are for regulating some behavior, but not for regulating other behaviors..

[Truth]

Life does not provide a "level playing field" (whatever that means) for everyone. The truth is that, due to heredity and/or environment and/or family status , there are great disparities in opportunity and result. That can not be legislated away by congress nor charmed away by Obama. That is just reality.

Surely no one believes that a poor minority child, with a low IQ, with (at most) one parent in the home, with no motivation or encouragement to get educated and to succeed, and living in a neighborhood filled with drug users, thieves, and prostitutes can have an equal chance as a caucasian with a family that is well to do, with a mother and father both in the home, with a superior IQ, and with an abundance of educational opportunity and "connections".

It isn't going to happen. Never. Obama can "preach" equality of opportunity but he is merely doing so because lower socio-economic group is his core constituency and he must have their votes.

We may all wish that opportunities were more equitable. However, that isn't going to happen unless we become a socialist nation. Then everyone can be equal. Everyone will have nothing. And, since everyone has the same, why work? We can all lay around in our ghettos and rot.

[vundy33]

It's not about an equal chance. Just because a kid grows up in a shitty home and neighborhood, doesn't mean he can't excel to the same position or even better than a kid who had a great childhood and plenty of money.

Of course the poor kid doesn't have an equal chance, it's obvious he has a tougher and more expensive road. Everyone can see that. It's not about having an equal chance, because that will never happen...it's about having some kind of chance, no matter how big or small.

[TheRealVille]

Obama seems to want, or at least he seems to preach (whether sincere or not), not just equality of opportunity but equality of result. Of course, many would define the latter as, at the least, quasi-socialism. It is also impossible in a free (I said "free") society.

Freedom of opportunity sounds good. However, it is not remotely possible. I can cite many facts indicating that that is the case. However, to cut down on the oration, I'll take a simple example.

Let's take the healthy child from a well-to-do family (not necessarily millionaires but a mother and father are both present in the home) who has an IQ of 120 (not brilliant but pretty good) and whose parents discipline him/her, love him/her, love each other, and motivate him/her to succeed. He/She will attend a good college, probably a graduate school, and will graduate from both.

Now, let's take a poor sickly minority child who doesn't have a father in the home, has an IQ of around 75, has no positive motivation, has no positive influences, and is the member of a third generation welfare family. He/She doesn't attend school on a remotely regular basis and will likely quit school as soon as possible. He/She will, most likely, excel over the first child only in number of offspring.

Now, just how are these two individuals, both of whom are actually very typical examples of our population, going to have an equal chance to succeed?

It is not possible. I know it. You know it. And, Obama knows it (but he wants votes and this latter group is his core constituency).

I won't get into Obama's pipe dream (probably an applicable term) of equality of result. If equality of result were remotely attainable, I'd be pitching today for the Texas Rangers and some of you may have just signed with Calipari and UK. Silly? Of course. But this is Obama's "line"- not mine. I live in the real world.

And, the above is, though not politically correct, the truth.

Truth has to be true to be truth.

[vundy33]

If we can get to the point where everyone has an equal chance, then that'd be great and God bless us. But until then, there's going to be those who are handed everything, and those who have to work their ass off for everything they have, like I've had to do.

[Hoot Gibson]

If we can get to the point where everyone has an equal chance, then that'd be great and God bless us. But until then, there's going to be those who are handed everything, and those who have to work their ass off for everything they have, like I've had to do.

:Thumbs: Great post, Vundy. The government should strive to treat all of us fairly but aside from that, people have no right to be treated or expect to be treated equally by other people. There is a sense of satisfaction of knowing that you have overcome the odds to succeed on your own merit that being born with a silver spoon in your mouth or benefiting from some government set-aside program cannot provide.

[vundy33]

Yep.

I wasn't poor, but we weren't rich. Lived decent and got what I needed. I was just raised that I had to work for what I wanted as a kid, and for both as an adult.

Im confident that when I was a kid, I could now be anything I wanted to be back then if I wanted to. I'm smart enough, had good family support, and have decent morals. But no matter how well I was raised, and I had a great father and do has a great mother, it didn't stop me from being a dumbass as a kid and only wanting to screw around. I thought that I could just pick up and start caring when I got out out of high school. But it wasn't that easy, and since I've been 18, life hasnt been that great. Even though I excelled in the military, you can only do so much in 4 years doing that, and I got out...and now its hitting me that my friends who are graduating all around me with Bachelor's degrees can't even find jobs, when all I have is barely two years of school and Infantry experience. Which hardly any job uses, lol.

Now, I'm trying to get back in because of how crappy the job market is, even though I have a decent one. Plus I just miss it. The point is, I could've been a huge pile of shit or be a college graduate with a 4.0 GPA, but not because of what I came up with...but because of my own, individual decisions, I am the man I'm in now. Even though my life isn't hard right now, and I don't regret doing what I've done with the military, I just regret not going to college first and trying the normal life out first. Might have avoided all the shit that's ailing me now.

So, I don't really buy into the whole "born into it" thing. Yes, it happens, but on the bigger scale, most have the chance to chase whatever occupation they want in life. Hopefully we always are so fortunate.

[Truth]

Truth has to be true to be truth.

Where am I wrong?

[Truth]

It's not about an equal chance. Just because a kid grows up in a shitty home and neighborhood, doesn't mean he can't excel to the same position or even better than a kid who had a great childhood and plenty of money.

Of course the poor kid doesn't have an equal chance, it's obvious he has a tougher and more expensive road. Everyone can see that. It's not about having an equal chance, because that will never happen...it's about having some kind of chance, no matter how big or small.

I believe you are splitting hairs. In your analogy, it is not entirely impossible for a child from the excrement home to excel to the same extent or better than the well to do child. However, it is extremely improbable.

However, you are correct in stating that everyone cannot have an equal chance. Nor, without socialism, can they have an equal outcome. The little boy in the White House cannot "perform" the former. On the other hand, give him four more years and he may get us close to the latter.

[Truth]

Yep.

I wasn't poor, but we weren't rich. Lived decent and got what I needed. I was just raised that I had to work for what I wanted as a kid, and for both as an adult.

Im confident that when I was a kid, I could now be anything I wanted to be back then if I wanted to. I'm smart enough, had good family support, and have decent morals. But no matter how well I was raised, and I had a great father and do has a great mother, it didn't stop me from being a dumbass as a kid and only wanting to screw around. I thought that I could just pick up and start caring when I got out out of high school. But it wasn't that easy, and since I've been 18, life hasnt been that great. Even though I excelled in the military, you can only do so much in 4 years doing that, and I got out...and now its hitting me that my friends who are graduating all around me with Bachelor's degrees can't even find jobs, when all I have is barely two years of school and Infantry experience. Which hardly any job uses, lol.

Now, I'm trying to get back in because of how crappy the job market is, even though I have a decent one. Plus I just miss it. The point is, I could've been a huge pile of shit or be a college graduate with a 4.0 GPA, but not because of what I came up with...but because of my own, individual decisions, I am the man I'm in now. Even though my life isn't hard right now, and I don't regret doing what I've done with the military, I just regret not going to college first and trying the normal life out first. Might have avoided all the shit that's ailing me now.

So, I don't really buy into the whole "born into it" thing. Yes, it happens, but on the bigger scale, most have the chance to chase whatever occupation they want in life. Hopefully we always are so fortunate.

Good and revealing post. Whatever you are and whereever you are, you appear to have taken responsibility for yourself and made your own decisions.

Assuming that that is the case, you are to be commended. Wouldn't it be a positive development if all those who whine about their status (or lack thereof) in life, got off their fat butts and took responsibility for their own situations?

Not all will thrive. However, most can reach their potential- even if it is limited as is the case with millions of people. Compassion requires that we take care of those who really and truly cannot support themselves because of physical or mental handicaps. We owe absolutely nothing to the others.

[TheRealThing]

Kind of odd hearing this come from you. You are for regulating some behavior, but not for regulating other behaviors..

You know better. You just don't have any respectable argument for my stated position. I say, as men, we don't have the right to redefine God's law, which, is the ultimate and only authority to establish reasonable and honorable behavior among men. I say, the courts have no business making law that contradicts God's law.

You, on the other hand, come down on the liberal side of every discussion. In your mind it's totally okey-doke to legislate me into submission, by activist judges and liberal law makers. I prefer to build my life and my opinions on a sound foundation, the "Rock of Ages". Not the sands of public opinion which change every day. I can't break the law of the land, but, I will never oppose God's law. If he says "a man shall earn his living by the sweat of his brow" and "homosexuality is an abomination to Him" and "marriage is between and man and a woman" that suits me to a T.

Matthew 7:24-27 (KJV)

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

[TheRealVille]

You know better. You just don't have any respectable argument for my stated position. I say, as men, we don't have the right to redefine God's law, which, is the ultimate and only authority to establish reasonable and honorable behavior among men. I say, the courts have no business making law that contradicts God's law.

You, on the other hand, come down on the liberal side of every discussion. In your mind it's totally okey-doke to legislate me into submission, by activist judges and liberal law makers. I prefer to build my life and my opinions on a sound foundation, the "Rock of Ages". Not the sands of public opinion which change every day. I can't break the law of the land, but, I will never oppose God's law. If he says "a man shall earn his living by the sweat of his brow" and "homosexuality is an abomination to Him" and "marriage is between and man and a woman" that suits me to a T.

Matthew 7:24-27 (KJV)

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

When are you going to understand that the US isn't governed by God's law. Christians aren't the only people with American citizenship, and able to make the rules. A bigger percentage of the voting public could care less about God's law, and want no part of it in the US government. You want to regulate laws that prohibit things that go against your lifestyle, and then in the same breath say "you can't regulate peoples' behavior. Republicans would have a hard time getting beat if they weren't in the bed with christians. If you don't want to regulate how much pop someone drinks, quit trying to regulate other behavior.

[Truth]

When are you going to understand that the US isn't governed by God's law. Christians aren't the only people with American citizenship, and able to make the rules. A bigger percentage of the voting public could care less about God's law, and want no part of it in the US government. You want to regulate laws that prohibit things that go against your lifestyle, and then in the same breath say "you can't regulate peoples' behavior. Republicans would have a hard time getting beat if they weren't in the bed with christians. If you don't want to regulate how much pop someone drinks, quit trying to regulate other behavior.

With each post, you more and more reveal your philosophy of life. Although I agree with nothing you say, I salute you for your honesty. Still, with your beliefs, you must be somewhat of an outcast in Paintsville.

I am not nearly as concerned about you as I am about the cafeteria Christians who rationalize the moral issues that are non-negotiable (at least for a Christian). We know where you stand. The "holier than thou pulpit fillers" with their possum grins and their "amens" are the ones who worry me.

[TheRealThing]

When are you going to understand that the US isn't governed by God's law. Christians aren't the only people with American citizenship, and able to make the rules. A bigger percentage of the voting public could care less about God's law, and want no part of it in the US government. You want to regulate laws that prohibit things that go against your lifestyle, and then in the same breath say "you can't regulate peoples' behavior. Republicans would have a hard time getting beat if they weren't in the bed with christians. If you don't want to regulate how much pop someone drinks, quit trying to regulate other behavior.

As to the bolded- you can't come up with a single example of any statement I have ever made on here to support your rediculous claim. Actually, you're looking in the mirror and seeing yourself. The liberal is the one who is using the courts and the congress to CHANGE laws that have been on the books for over 230 years. God's law and folks who honor it are in the way, and liberals don't like it. You and your ilk are the ones stirring up the muddy water. We're just doing our best to stop the headlong rush to destroy what so many have lived, fought, and died for in the past. Why are they, liberals, doing this? Because of the contempt (which you seem to share) for the traditional values upon which this land was founded, and have carried us through the dark days of world war and various other woes the past two centuries, as well as the days of glory and plenty. The things I love about America are the very things the liberals want to change.

It's the redefinition of everything from the constitution, to morality that I hate and oppose. Our laws served us well up until the last decade but, if I didn't know better by the way you tell it, I'd think just the opposite. No, I've been here the whole time, and I remember clearly how things were versus how they are now. The more we change the idea of Americanism the more things go awry. I've never advocated for a theocratic approach to governance. However, there is no question that Godly men in positions of leadership, over the length of our nation's history have made choices because of their perspective, that have served the people very well. When are YOU going to understand that RV?

[TheRealVille]

As to the bolded- you can't come up with a single example of any statement I have ever made on here to support your rediculous claim. Actually, you're looking in the mirror and seeing yourself. The liberal is the one who is using the courts and the congress to CHANGE laws that have been on the books for over 230 years. God's law and folks who honor it are in the way, and liberals don't like it. You and your ilk are the ones stirring up the muddy water. We're just doing our best to stop the headlong rush to destroy what so many have lived, fought, and died for in the past. Why are they, liberals, doing this? Because of the contempt (which you seem to share) for the traditional values upon which this land was founded, and have carried us through the dark days of world war and various other woes the past two centuries, as well as the days of glory and plenty. The things I love about America are the very things the liberals want to change.

It's the redefinition of everything from the constitution, to morality that I hate and oppose. Our laws served us well up until the last decade but, if I didn't know better by the way you tell it, I'd think just the opposite. No, I've been here the whole time, and I remember clearly how things were versus how they are now. The more we change the idea of Americanism the more things go awry. I've never advocated for a theocratic approach to governance. However, there is no question that Godly men in positions of leadership, over the length of our nation's history have made choices because of their perspective, that have served the people very well. When are YOU going to understand that RV?

In other words, you want to regulate laws that go against your religion, but not other regulations. The US is finally changing the way things were run by your type of people, and it's about time.

[TheRealThing]

In other words, you want to regulate laws that go against your religion, but not other regulations. The US is finally changing the way things were run by your type of people, and it's about time.

"Other" words are your specialty when you can't come up with anything closely resembling a reasonable rebuff. This is the best you can do? Or am I shooting that far over your head?

[TheRealVille]

"Other" words are your specialty when you can't come up with anything closely resembling a reasonable rebuff. This is the best you can do? Or am I shooting that far over your head?

If the shoe fits. You know what I stated is exactly how you think.

[TheRealThing]

If the shoe fits. You know what I stated is exactly how you think.

I know you don't have the first clue what you're talking about, but what the heck, why change now, right?

[fmohan]

People seem to be engrossed with the idea that the world could still be fair and equal but in reality, though harsh and straight to the point, Obama's statement is true indeed.

With different unions and currency in play, it would not be possible for it to be fair. And though people are driving for something like that, it would just not be something that is workable at the moment. I even bet that you would not be willing to share your resources just to prove that its doable.

[TheRealThing]

People seem to be engrossed with the idea that the world could still be fair and equal but in reality, though harsh and straight to the point, Obama's statement is true indeed.

With different unions and currency in play, it would not be possible for it to be fair. And though people are driving for something like that, it would just not be something that is workable at the moment. I even bet that you would not be willing to share your resources just to prove that its doable.

Not quite sure what you're saying here. Liberals, progressives and quasi-socialists (many times one in the same) are the ones who see the world in the same terms as John Lennon suggested in his hit record Imagine, where "all the people live as one." Realists and folks who think for themselves know life could never be that way. That's why we have the strife that exists in government circles and among those that actually pay taxes. Taxpayers don't like the fact that government is forcing them through extorted taxation, to pay for the non-productive "dreamers" who are too lazy to work but, not too lazy to father as many as 30 children out of wedlock with various 'girl friends', according to one news story of late.

Obama, is a liberal extremist and therefore a staunch advocate for the listless dregs that drain society's pocket book to the point of bankruptcy. So, if you don't mind, would you post the statement Obama made which is straight and to the point? I for one, would like to see an example of such candor out of him. :biggrin: