Could we eventually see a Pikeville - Shelby Valley series in football ? Shelby Valley is having a good season. I know that they will lose alot of seniors this year, but I believe that they have alot of young players in there program. Participation in football is up on Robinson Creek from the high school all the way down to the grade school level. SV has won 5 to six games a season lately. Anyone have any thoughts?
A series with Shelby Valley doesn't benefit Pikeville. If Pikeville was to lose a game to SV, they would lose further status in football throughout the county. The game would benefit the Wildcats greatly, could possibly start another rivalry between the schools, but I don't see it happening.
Pikeville will schedule the Boyle County's of the world and get thumped before they schedule Shelby Valley and lose to them.
But you know what? I think a SV vs. Pikeville series would be better than Pikeville taking one on the chin every year against Belfry. Sure, the crowd and gate money wouldn't be as good, but at least it would be a competitive game.
I think it would be a great early season matchup. These two teams are very close in a lot of ways, talent, fan bases, etc. This game should replace the annual butt-kickin that Pikeville receives in that bowl game they have been playing in down in Corbin. You wonder if Pikeville would ever play another county school. The argument has been made on here before that Pikeville has too much to lose by playing Shelby Valley or Pike Central or East Ridge. With all due respect to PC and ER, SV should probably be the only team considered in this argument because they would provide the most consistent competition for Pikeville. So, back to the case for this game. What would Pikeville have to lose. They may already have lost the title as second best team in the county. At least for this year. I have seen both SV and Pikeville and right now SV is 1-2 TDS better. Pikeville is no longer considered an elite state program, so that title is not there to be lost. Pikeville, like any program, should play a schedule that will make their team better and get them ready for a playoff run. I think SV fits into that mold. Also, teams like Lawrence County and Sheldon Clark and Prestonsburg are good barometers for the Pikeville team. The fact they already are playing Pburg and SC is great. Pikeville wasn't competitive with Pburg this year, but that series has been a good one. Playing Ashland, Boyle County and LexCath is probably not the best way to build a program back. These teams look good to have on the schedule to increase the SOS, but they are not very practical when it comes to competing or winning games. I really believe that some good days are ahead for both SV and Pikeville and I would like to see them play each other.
bucslover68 Wrote:This game should replace the annual butt-kickin that Pikeville receives in that bowl game they have been playing in down in Corbin.
Yea Corbin kicked our butts 0-34 one year.
hh:
Panther Thunder Wrote:Yea Corbin kicked our butts 0-34 one year. hh:
You know what I am talkin about. Until Pikeville gets built back up, they do not need to be playing Boyle County or any other prominent team in a bowl game. If it was a down Corbin team every year, it would be different. BTW, why not actually respond to the context of the thread instead of getting offended at someone's opininon?
This would be a very beneficial matchup for both teams but I seriously think that the Big Sandy would have to flow in reverse before the Pikeville administration concedes to playing an annual game with SV and takes the chance of losing.
I do know that Shelby Valley is very interested in playing Pikeville.
EKU I absolutely agree with you.
EKUAlum05 Wrote:This would be a very beneficial matchup for both teams but I seriously think that the Big Sandy would have to flow in reverse before the Pikeville administration concedes to playing an annual game with SV and takes the chance of losing.
I agree. There is a prevailing thought that Pikeville still thinks of themselves as an elite program and they are not. They need a dose of humility and they need to get their work clothes back on and build through the youth leagues and middle school. If they do this they will be back to a state competitive level in the next few years.
By starting this thread I am not saying that Shelby Valley would beat Pikeville next year, but SV are doing the things to consistently have a program. But Shelby Valley has earned the right to play Pikeville. For at least this year SV has replaced Pikeville as the second best team in the county.
We always kicked their butts in middle school, and it wasn't any different when we played them in JV, no need to worry about playing them in HS, they were always too scared, thought of themselves too highly, Pikeville and their fan base would be brought back down to Earth from a butt kicking at the hands of Shelby Valley.
SV's last coach begged, pleaded and challenged Pikevilles manhood trying to schedule a game. That is a fact.
5timechamp Wrote:SV's last coach begged, pleaded and challenged Pikevilles manhood trying to schedule a game. That is a fact.
I was there the first year he came in when he was on the phone contacting them, he had a few nice words for them when they declined to play.
i think this would be a great rivalry.would love to see this game every year.would be a great matchup as players come and go.this kind of game could be great for years to come.
The only why I see Pikeville Playing Valley is they think Valley will have a down year or two . If Pikeville dont fell like they can win it easily they wont play Valley. Saunders begged to play them for three years.
By no means am I bringing Belfry into this thread BUT, if Pikeville and SV will do as Belfry does and have someone who is consistent and dedicated to a pee wee, youth, and middle school teams program and build your youth from that and teach them they way need to be taught instead of something different every year, it would vastly improve their programs. Building it from the ground up (or flag team up) and getting the young men ready to do what they need to do when they get to the varsity level would be a great help! BOTH teams have tons of potential and could make their mark but their respective coaches have to have the time to do just that as well. Let the varsity coach get in, settle, get his program on it's feet, work with the middle school coach and collaborate with him on plays and such so that when varsity time comes, he will be enlightened as to who he has and what talent pool he is dealing with. This as well as having some kids come in who already get the gist of what is going to be happening when they hit the turf at the high school level might make it easier to make something work!!! I honestly think that too much is expected from new coaches as they are working with a program and trying to make it a positive. Give the men time to adjust and get the wheels rolling on the programs and make something of them!
The SV/Pikeville contest IMHO would be a great one would it ever happen. Do they play JV or Jr. High against one another?
SV would beat Pikeville this year and its pathetic that Pikeville thinks by not playing SV that they remain the second best team in Pike County. Trust me..I've seen both teams play and SV is 3 TD's better right now.
phs1986 Wrote:By no means am I bringing Belfry into this thread BUT, if Pikeville and SV will do as Belfry does and have someone who is consistent and dedicated to a pee wee, youth, and middle school teams program and build your youth from that and teach them they way need to be taught instead of something different every year, it would vastly improve their programs. Building it from the ground up (or flag team up) and getting the young men ready to do what they need to do when they get to the varsity level would be a great help! BOTH teams have tons of potential and could make their mark but their respective coaches have to have the time to do just that as well. Let the varsity coach get in, settle, get his program on it's feet, work with the middle school coach and collaborate with him on plays and such so that when varsity time comes, he will be enlightened as to who he has and what talent pool he is dealing with. This as well as having some kids come in who already get the gist of what is going to be happening when they hit the turf at the high school level might make it easier to make something work!!! I honestly think that too much is expected from new coaches as they are working with a program and trying to make it a positive. Give the men time to adjust and get the wheels rolling on the programs and make something of them!
The SV/Pikeville contest IMHO would be a great one would it ever happen. Do they play JV or Jr. High against one another?
We are honestly getting better at this. Valley has a good flag league for 4,5,6 and 7 year olds. They have about 50 kids out. At the elementary level they have vastly improved in organization and keeping the kids together. The biggest thing now is using these improvements to pull the community, kids and parents into football. These improvements really started happening a couple of years ago. SV has some really good young football players.
The only thing that matters in building a GREAT HS program is teaching the Flag and Pee-Wee Leagues the fundamentals of the game. Records dont matter and once you establish that then the Varsity program will reap the benefits.
I am impressed about the hard work that the coaching staff is doing at Shelby Valley. Coach Norman knows what a winning program is all about. He played for Belfry . They are getting the kiids interested in football in the Virgie and Dorton areas. They are doing the right things to go forward in the future
EKU Shelby Valley freshman and jv teams have played alot against Belfry this year. That alone makes you better
I respectfully disagree with the statement that Pikeville would be afraid to loose. If that were the case why doesn't their schedule reflect that over the years. They are locked in to several games in district play that in the past have not been very competive. The out of district opponents are usually very tough. The thought being that playing those teams will make you stronger in the post season. Also a Pike County Bowl and Belfry game make scheduling another local team more difficult.
I want SV to as sucessful as anyone. I think they should play each other. I think that it would be great from a fan stand point. There would be people at that game that normally don't attend football games.
Maybe if SV gets to a regional semifinal or final and be more consistent year in and year out during the regular season a Panther v. Wildcat might happen in the future.
phs1986 Wrote:By no means am I bringing Belfry into this thread BUT, if Pikeville and SV will do as Belfry does and have someone who is consistent and dedicated to a pee wee, youth, and middle school teams program and build your youth from that and teach them they way need to be taught instead of something different every year, it would vastly improve their programs. Building it from the ground up (or flag team up) and getting the young men ready to do what they need to do when they get to the varsity level would be a great help! BOTH teams have tons of potential and could make their mark but their respective coaches have to have the time to do just that as well. Let the varsity coach get in, settle, get his program on it's feet, work with the middle school coach and collaborate with him on plays and such so that when varsity time comes, he will be enlightened as to who he has and what talent pool he is dealing with. This as well as having some kids come in who already get the gist of what is going to be happening when they hit the turf at the high school level might make it easier to make something work!!! I honestly think that too much is expected from new coaches as they are working with a program and trying to make it a positive. Give the men time to adjust and get the wheels rolling on the programs and make something of them!
The SV/Pikeville contest IMHO would be a great one would it ever happen. Do they play JV or Jr. High against one another?
When I was coming through(2008 graduate), we played Pikeville in middle school and JV.
Every team in the county except ER and Phelps IMO would beat Pikeville.
hypersport Wrote:I respectfully disagree with the statement that Pikeville would be afraid to loose. If that were the case why doesn't their schedule reflect that over the years.
There is a BIG difference in losing to a noted powerhouse from out of the area that everyone expects to beat you, and losing to a "county" school with hardly any history of success. ESPECIALLY, when a nmber of the kids in your school district could very easily choose to attend high school at that school, instead of your own.
For decades now the only "County" school that Pikeville would put in the same ballpark as them (pun fully intended) was Belfry, and even then it took Belfry owning the 2000's before Pikeville fans even accepted their program as an equal. We are talking about Belfry, a mountain powerhouse with a noted history of state success and playoff tradition.
Shelby Valley's only sustained success in the school's hisory has came in the past 3 or 4 years, heck they hadn't even advanced to the 2nd Round of the playoffs until a couple seasons ago. If Pikeville scheduled and lost to Valley it would truly put a nail in the coffin of Pikeville being a true "state power" and it would also cement the belief that they are not only no longer the best team in the county, but not even the 2nd best.
The last point especially rings true because of the Pike County Bowl. For years it has been Belfry and Pikeville carrying the flag. In recent years, thanks to the expanding format (which I bet Pikeville wishes never happened) and the move to having the remaining County schools play each other (which certainly doesn't help Pikeville in hindsight either) it has put a premium on who deserves to play the out of area teams. This was further compounded when Valley's facilities superceded that of Hambley, and when the committee unexplicably chose to let SV host instead of Belfry last season. If SV were to beat Pikeville, they would have a legitimate case that
THEY deserve to be the flagship team, along with Belfry, and have the rights to host the game against an out of area team. Better facilities, just as large of a fan turnout, geographically a wash, and coupled with a victory over the Panthers, it would be a tough arguement to ignore.
bucslover68 Wrote:I think it would be a great early season matchup. These two teams are very close in a lot of ways, talent, fan bases, etc. This game should replace the annual butt-kickin that Pikeville receives in that bowl game they have been playing in down in Corbin. You wonder if Pikeville would ever play another county school. The argument has been made on here before that Pikeville has too much to lose by playing Shelby Valley or Pike Central or East Ridge. With all due respect to PC and ER, SV should probably be the only team considered in this argument because they would provide the most consistent competition for Pikeville. So, back to the case for this game. What would Pikeville have to lose. They may already have lost the title as second best team in the county. At least for this year. I have seen both SV and Pikeville and right now SV is 1-2 TDS better. Pikeville is no longer considered an elite state program, so that title is not there to be lost. Pikeville, like any program, should play a schedule that will make their team better and get them ready for a playoff run. I think SV fits into that mold. Also, teams like Lawrence County and Sheldon Clark and Prestonsburg are good barometers for the Pikeville team. The fact they already are playing Pburg and SC is great. Pikeville wasn't competitive with Pburg this year, but that series has been a good one. Playing Ashland, Boyle County and LexCath is probably not the best way to build a program back. These teams look good to have on the schedule to increase the SOS, but they are not very practical when it comes to competing or winning games. I really believe that some good days are ahead for both SV and Pikeville and I would like to see them play each other.
Wow. Couldn't have put it any better myself. I believe a certain place down below would freeze over before Pikeville would EVER agree to play SV in football.
The whole athletics staff is probably afraid they would all be ran out of town if they happened to actually lose to
Shelby Valley...
More Cowbell Wrote:Wow. Couldn't have put it any better myself. I believe a certain place down below would freeze over before Pikeville would EVER agree to play SV in football.
The whole athletics staff is probably afraid they would all be ran out of town if they happened to actually lose to Shelby Valley...
Dunno why they would really be so worried about it, Valley has beat them at some point in every other sport haven't they?
PC_You_Know Wrote:Dunno why they would really be so worried about it, Valley has beat them at some point in every other sport haven't they?
Yeah....but every other sport is not football.....and Football is King at Pikeville...just as it is at Belfry. Football is a distant...and I mean distant 2nd to basketball at Shelby Valley.
I would have to agree with other posters...in that...I simply can't see P-ville willing to put SV on the schedule while the program is in a full blown rebuilding mode. Maybe....if and when the ship's been righted....they may agree to a short home and home series.......but I can't see that in the near future.
I'm of the mindset that the Belfry/P-ville series should take a hiatus....similar to the Belfry/P-burg series.
Most programs the size of P-ville, Belfry, P-burg, Breathitt, SC...etc,etc....are going to go thru periods of diminished talent. And...unfortunately, with the advent of increased numbers of Middle School/Junior Highs in place......the odds of diminsihed talent or returns are greater....due to lower participation rates.
So sometimes you've got to drop back and punt...
Take a break....re-structure, re-prioritize and rebuild.....then resume.
PC_You_Know Wrote:Dunno why they would really be so worried about it, Valley has beat them at some point in every other sport haven't they?
Sorry I was a little vague in my earlier post, I just meant they are afraid of losing to SV in football, not in other sports. I'm sure they would feel equally horrified at the thought of losing to Pike Central as well, which is why I don't see them ever agreeing to play the Hawks either.
Honestly, the only way this will probably ever happen is if SV's enrollment drops so much that they end up being 1A in football, in which case they would be in the same district and thus required to play.
EKUAlum05 Wrote:Shelby Valley's only sustained success in the school's hisory has came in the past 3 or 4 years, heck they hadn't even advanced to the 2nd Round of the playoffs until a couple seasons ago. If Pikeville scheduled and lost to Valley it would truly put a nail in the coffin of Pikeville being a true "state power" and it would also cement the belief that they are not only no longer the best team in the county, but not even the 2nd best.
The last point especially rings true because of the Pike County Bowl. For years it has been Belfry and Pikeville carrying the flag. In recent years, thanks to the expanding format (which I bet Pikeville wishes never happened) and the move to having the remaining County schools play each other (which certainly doesn't help Pikeville in hindsight either) it has put a premium on who deserves to play the out of area teams. This was further compounded when Valley's facilities superceded that of Hambley, and when the committee unexplicably chose to let SV host instead of Belfry last season. If SV were to beat Pikeville, they would have a legitimate case that THEY deserve to be the flagship team, along with Belfry, and have the rights to host the game against an out of area team. Better facilities, just as large of a fan turnout, geographically a wash, and coupled with a victory over the Panthers, it would be a tough arguement to ignore.
First off, I would like to say that it was completely ridiculous that Shelby Valley hosted the PCB a couple years ago instead of Belfry. That was an insult to Belfry's tradition and their recent success, and I hope it never happens again.
That said, maybe Pikeville needs to be the one to have their hosting duties usurped for a year, if for no other reason than their unwillingness to meet SV on the football field. They certainly aren't in the same league with Pikeville concerning tradition, but their current teams are probably equal in talent. Plus, as you mentioned, Valley has superior facilities and surprisingly good fan support considering their lack of sustained success through the years.