Hello everyone from Bluegrass Rivals. If I may, I would like to introduce myself. I am from the NKY area, and have been a member of BGR for a relatively short period of time. I am the culprit of your dislike to the excess of threads to he site. I have meant no harm, and was very careful of taking a step that I knew that would raise the ire of those not used to, nor understanding the reasoning of why I began what I did. Blame no one from the BGR Staff for any inconvenience of what has transpired over the past few weeks. But I have a reason, and hopefully some of the ideas that I have shared BGR staff members, you will understand and hopefully support.
I would first like to thank all or the loyal members of BGR and it’s staff for developing and maintaining this wonderful site. I have been a member of like sites as Bluegrass Rivals as well as other message boards and forum sites. I, looking for an alternative, happened to blindly find BGR by doing a google search for Kentucky High School sport forums. I knew nothing of the sites existence prior to this search. I became a member and immediately liked what I saw. But I certainly felt like an outsider to what was being posted on the site and had nothing much to add. I primarily landed in the non-High School section since it was really the only location that I could add any relevance and make posts. But for me, just as you, I am a tremendous supporter and lover of not only my NKY Alma-Mater and the other local schools in the NKY area, I am a fan and supporter of Kentucky High School sports.
The support that the members of BGR show to their respective schools is admirable. The ability to talk amongst your personal team supporters as well as the friendly banter to your rivals is a tremendous privelage that I think you all realize that you have. I to wish to share in that, however the limited area that the current members on the site does not allow for that. However, that did not warrant me to make or force upon anyone my interest to add members from other areas just for my own selfish reasons. Thus, I took it upon myself to reach out to some of the other Staff and Administrators of the site to determine if BGR is more of a local (EKY) forum site, or truly a STATEWIDE site. Upon learning that the site was intended to be statewide, I began posting threads that were more related to the NKY area, but had minimal response. But that helped me understand that there is not a wide membership from the NKY area. It was obvious that there was not as many members posting from the WKY, South, Lexington and Lousiville areas. This obviously meant that I needed to promote the NKY area, but possibly a method to reach the other areas was needed.
On other like sites, literally every sporting event that took place in the state of KY would be reported upon and posted on the site. All of these posts would have some interest from the supporters of their area. But, I should be clear, all areas of the state were supported. Maybe some of the steps that I started have not sit well with many members, but there was a reason for taking the approach that I did.
When I began posting the scores to games in all areas of the state, I was curious to see who the members were, how long ther had been members, and what areas of the state the replies would come from. Not many came from any of the outside of the EKY and the big school areas, which was not a surprise. So in response I took it upon myself to begin an extensive marketing of the site to potential new members. I have considerable access to Coaches, web administrators for High School sports, and others who may be interested in this site but as I, was not aware of the sites existence. I have pushed out as many as 300 emails to interested parties as well as have attempted to market the site in other ways. I assure you, I receive no reward for this with the exception of growing the sites membership from across the sate, and continuing the process of making your site, BGR, the #1 site Kentucky High Schools sports as well as other forums of interest.
I know of 13 new members who have signed up or shown interest to do so in the last three days. That number I expect to climb, but the only way that they stay active members is to have forums of interest to them. We cannot expect this to spread without the same thought and practice. So, it’s not just getting new members, but retaining them for the long haul
:::: DUE TO THE LENGTH, I HAVE BROKEN INTO 2 MESSAGES – See the continuation in the next post ::::::
Have there been any findings that I have discovered since the start of the process, yes! Interestingly, I have begun to notice more replies for areas that did not appear to be getting posts or comments for in the past. It has introduced everyone to other schools that either you rarely have heard about, and surely never knew existed. One of the most important findings has been a simple report that each of you can see for yourselves on the forum threads in the far right column. The Views column tells us all how many members have gone to that thread and opened it to read. Does not mean everyone will post, but it was of interest to someone just to see what was going on.
I have began to see the VIEWS of other schools posts that did not exist in the past. As example, I have been posting scores for an Australian Travel team that has been touring KY which I knew nothing about until I began posting the scores. That prompted a funny comment in the score thread of last nights game that lead me to look into the team to see why they were here in our state.
http://www.bluegrassrivals.com/forum/sho...hp?t=52892 Thus far, it has drawn 69 views by you, the BGR members. This is as many views as most of the EKY sporting events. I ask you, had no one posted a score for them, would you have ever know, nor cared of their existence?
Look, I am not trying to sabotage your site. I do not want to make it cumbersome for you by adding members from across the state. My hope for you, myself now that I am a member, as well as anyone who now joins the site from henceforth – is to make this the #1 resource for mine, yours and everyone elses for Kentucky High School and other sports news and information. I would love to share banter with you and brag to you about my school or area and why it is equal to your area, but if you know nothing of my area, we hardly can have that banter. To only post on schools or areas that are more known, then I feel we continue to limit ourselves in reaching out to other areas.
For those I have offended, I apologize. For those who I have made your access to information more cumbersome, please understand it was not to deter you, but to draw in someone else. It’s sad for some of the PM’s that I have received today. Three of you PM’s me to say stop posting about scores that no one cares about. The short sightedness of that is that you are the only one who does not care, but somewhere, someone else does. Do we want to draw those members in, or keep them away? Will other new members be as forward as I to begin posting threads about my area that I knew you would not care about, in hopes that as new members from NKY at least see a post that they could potentially reply to. That should snowball into making that new member an ACTIVE member. I honestly believe that is the interest of the staff and administrators of BGR. Should we not all help to support that?
I have no interest in continuing the process if not supported. I have received feedback from many of you both supportive and non-supportive. I welcome your ideas of how to draw interest to the site. I know no other way to measure it without us posting information on the other areas and then checking out the VIEWS column to see if really anyone cares. Obviously, those areas that have no views, then it is the hope that we can get into those areas someone how and introduce them to OUR site. How do we do that, I look forward to your suggestions. This is free for all of us. We should all be appreciative to the owner and staff members of this site to give us an equal opportunity to share our School Pride, thoughts and comments to all, and better yet do it for FREE!
For some of you, I hope this provided you an understanding of the WHY . For those of you who still dislike it, but can appreciate the effort and can support it’s short term approach, I say THANK YOU for your understanding and farsighted view that can help this site grow. For those of you who wish the site to stay the same, and not welcome other areas by any means possible, then my sincere apologies for making this attempt. In either case, I appreciate you all for taking the time to read my babblings, and fighting through the threads that are of no interest to you. But please remember, there is someone out there who does care about the thread, we just have to see how to draw them to the site.
I welcome any comments, both in posts or PM’s.
Thank you all,
Sincerely,
Stardust
Well said. I look forward to new members, more discussion, and expanding into NKY. I personally try to follow the best girls teams in the state and posting scores after their games give me better oppurtunity to do so instead of having to check KHSAA for every team individually. I agree with not posting EVERY score to EVERY game but the effort you mention to cater to those games/teams that do draw interest is wonderful.
I say keep posting your scores! This site is a statewide site and I for one like seeing the scores you post from around the state. I also like your enthusiasm for KY highschool basketball!
Stardust you have my full support.
I for one am very interested in highschool sports from all across the state.
Who knows, your team may end up playing one of these teams from another region. This is an opportunity to learn more about them.
I would love to be able to find informaiton on every team in the state of Kentucky without leaving BGR. Its the mall theory. Everything you need in one convenient location.
I like having all of the scores there and available to comment on if I want to. If no interest is shown, then like others said, the thread will quickly fall back. Also as Stardust has stated maybe a new member will see them, stay intersted and expand all of out outlooks.
Too much information is not a bad thing.
Could be the longest post ever!
Blessed be Stardust!
Keep up as long as you can. I like hearing about other areas and their teams/kids. That way when I get a chance to see them in person...well, it kinda makes me feel I know a little about them.
Stardust wins,
Definitely the longest post I've ever read on this site (just joking).
Feel free to post whatever, whenever you wish in my opinion. If someone does not like it they can just pass it over. I for one like to hear about other regions and teams. Have fun posting.
I believe that was one of the goals when BGR was started that it not only be a free site and one that was a little more understanding of peoples views but also to reach out to the state. We have many that are very loyal to their local teams and that show little interest in other schools from out of their region. I think that if we see and become familarized with northern, southern and western teams we can respond more. The little team that I try and support has played over the years alot of schools over the state and I enjoy myself in seeing how those teams do each year. I know coaches from across the state and if they are involved in a game then that interests me. It is reality though that some will never show an interest for another team or especially some from different areas and that is true for many all over the state. There is nothing wrong with that either and if we don't like seeing posts about scores or news from other teams from out of the districts or regions then we don't have to acknowledge them. If you see any scores from paintball Stardust try and keep us informed, That does interest some of us. And welcome here, We're 99.5%( Johnny Ringo )
pretty good people that love our schools and the kids that represent them.
I am a fan...I was thinking about all of the posts that Stardust has been making and I knew it wasn't a post padder. Seeing all of the negativity that people has been leaving, what they don't realize is the time that it takes, night in and night out for us readers and fans to see. Thank You Stardust for all that you have already done on this site!
Is this guy a Saint OR WHAT???
Stardust...
You are a great asset to the site and I'm glad you have decided to give so much of your free time to the site's growth.
I'll be honest. I've not said much about your score posting threads until yesterday when I saw threads about schools that are not competing in the KHSAA. I understand your experiment and your effort has not been in vain. I also openly question who you are because anyone can be anybody on this site and there are certain people who DON'T want this site to grow and want to gouge $15 membership fews to control people's opinions. I hope you are who you say you are and truly respect other members of this site and make a positive change to BGR.
Keep posting scores. I for one would like to see more opinion threads about teams/players from NKY. You have contacts to schools, coaches, administrators? Then let's see more opinion threads rather than score threads. Tell me who are the Top 5 players in the 37th District? Tell me something special about Campbell County's top rival that only fans would know? Give me something more about the teams/players/coaches in your area that I can't get from KHSAA.org...Stir up those opinions, more established members will respond wanting to know more details and I believe more folks from your area will chime in to discuss and give their own opinions as well. That will grow this site...Because everyone (believe me everyone) has an opinion.
As for the shortsighted people that have sent you PM's that weren't very kind, don't worry, their 16 years old and still made to go to bed before 10pm weeknights and don't have the guts to share their real thoughts in an open forum.
Just my humble opinion. Welcome to bluegrassrivals.com! Stay as long as you like.
I am sorta with Jammin J. I think it's an inside job from another forum.
What's this world coming to? :yikes:
Joe the Plumber Wrote:I am sorta with Jammin J. I think it's an inside job from another forum.
What's this world coming to? :yikes:
I didn't say it was an inside job. Whats someone going to do about a site that offers free membership? Entice our people by promising them a pack of JTMs to leave here and join them?
I just don't want people from other sites coming here to start trouble and I DON'T think stardust is doing that.
Keep up the good work! I would love to see this site expand beyond the 14th, 15th and a little of the 16th Regions!
jammin' jamey Wrote:Stardust...
You are a great asset to the site and I'm glad you have decided to give so much of your free time to the site's growth.
I'll be honest. I've not said much about your score posting threads until yesterday when I saw threads about schools that are not competing in the KHSAA. I understand your experiment and your effort has not been in vain. I also openly question who you are because anyone can be anybody on this site and there are certain people who DON'T want this site to grow and want to gouge $15 membership fews to control people's opinions. I hope you are who you say you are and truly respect other members of this site and make a positive change to BGR.
Keep posting scores. I for one would like to see more opinion threads about teams/players from NKY. You have contacts to schools, coaches, administrators? Then let's see more opinion threads rather than score threads. Tell me who are the Top 5 players in the 37th District? Tell me something special about Campbell County's top rival that only fans would know? Give me something more about the teams/players/coaches in your area that I can't get from KHSAA.org...Stir up those opinions, more established members will respond wanting to know more details and I believe more folks from your area will chime in to discuss and give their own opinions as well. That will grow this site...Because everyone (believe me everyone) has an opinion.
As for the shortsighted people that have sent you PM's that weren't very kind, don't worry, their 16 years old and still made to go to bed before 10pm weeknights and don't have the guts to share their real thoughts in an open forum.
Just my humble opinion. Welcome to bluegrassrivals.com! Stay as long as you like.
Thank you Jammin' jamey, your reply to the post was enlightening and refreshing. I appreciate you comments. If you have paid attention to my posts, you will see that I have been putting info about NKY sports from the beginning.
Not sure I understand your comment about hoping I am who I say I am, but the last time that I checked, I think I am who I am :confused:
My goal is to post as much about the NKY schools as possilbe in hopes of getting those who have recently joined to post more. I have seen the new members already, many of which you may have seen yourself as they have yet to post enough times to be full fledged members themselves.
But, it's not just NKY. The hope is for someone else in a new region of the state to do the same. I'm no martyr. I have no interest in trying to take the lead for everyone. But stir the pot and hopefully generate a snowball that carries itself around the state, then let me be the one to roll the first one
EKY Sportster Wrote:Keep up the good work! I would love to see this site expand beyond the 14th, 15th and a little of the 16th Regions!
A funny PM came a few days ago that they would love to see the site expand, but please not to WKY
Am I missing something there
Joe the Plumber Wrote:I am sorta with Jammin J. I think it's an inside job from another forum.
What's this world coming to? :yikes:
C'mon, look at the rest of my posts and threads besides the scores. I would hope you nor anyone else would seriously believe that :confused: I would get what out of that? It would be pretty easy to suspend an abuser. I plan to win you over with charm, OR :ChairHit:
Stardust Wrote:C'mon, look at the rest of my posts and threads besides the scores. I would hope you nor anyone else would seriously believe that :confused: I would get what out of that? It would be pretty easy to suspend an abuser. I plan to win you over with charm, OR :ChairHit:
:o Aww shucks, quit, you're embarrassing me.
You were beginning to win me over, until the post about rolling one and then the "reindeer smoking a doobie" icon. :eek:
I even tried to draw some interest into a few of the scores.
Stardust Wrote:Thank you Jammin' jamey, your reply to the post was enlightening and refreshing. I appreciate you comments. If you have paid attention to my posts, you will see that I have been putting info about NKY sports from the beginning.
Not sure I understand your comment about hoping I am who I say I am, but the last time that I checked, I think I am who I am :confused:
My goal is to post as much about the NKY schools as possilbe in hopes of getting those who have recently joined to post more. I have seen the new members already, many of which you may have seen yourself as they have yet to post enough times to be full fledged members themselves.
But, it's not just NKY. The hope is for someone else in a new region of the state to do the same. I'm no martyr. I have no interest in trying to take the lead for everyone. But stir the pot and hopefully generate a snowball that carries itself around the state, then let me be the one to roll the first one
Good deal...
The score posting has gotten on some people's nerves because people in general don't like change. There are things as staff we can do from a technical aspect to change that and it's being discussed.
I'm asking for less scoring threads about schools that aren't receiving the desired number of hits and more threads about opinions. My theory is this: Once those opinion threads grow, gaining more members from outside EKY and more from the bluegrass, then those scoring threads that were less desirable before will begin to develop from new members and become more relevant. That takes time - lots of time.
jammin' jamey Wrote:Good deal...
The score posting has gotten on some people's nerves because people in general don't like change. There are things as staff we can do from a technical aspect to change that and it's being discussed.
I'm asking for less scoring threads about schools that aren't receiving the desired number of hits and more threads about opinions. My theory is this: Once those opinion threads grow, gaining more members from outside EKY and more from the bluegrass, then those scoring threads that were less desirable before will begin to develop from new members and become more relevant. That takes time - lots of time.
Agreed, and I understand. But how do you measure whether you even have members in those areas. It's not as easy as you may wish to think that every with an opinion will start an opinion thread. That takes courage from someone to step outside their box and offer an opinion only to open themselves to criticism.
The easiest post to make is to comment on a game that was played in your area. Those are cake. Then, when someone else comments about the game in question, that is likely to create an opinion which then snowballs into a full dialog.
I agree that not every game should be posted, but how else do you begin drawing the interest. Look at the score posts to see if there are any VIEWS. If zero, then how do we as the BGR family (not just the Staff), find a way to then reach out to those areas. Soon, you will begin seeing those views, then comments, then ultimately opinions.
Agree? Disagree? What is your opinion?
I like seeing the scores to teams in NKY even though I don't post on very many of them. I appreciate everything Stardust!
jammin' jamey Wrote:Good deal...
The score posting has gotten on some people's nerves because people in general don't like change. There are things as staff we can do from a technical aspect to change that and it's being discussed.
I'm asking for less scoring threads about schools that aren't receiving the desired number of hits and more threads about opinions. My theory is this: Once those opinion threads grow, gaining more members from outside EKY and more from the bluegrass, then those scoring threads that were less desirable before will begin to develop from new members and become more relevant. That takes time - lots of time.
I totally agree with your view Jamey!
Stardust Wrote:A funny PM came a few days ago that they would love to see the site expand, but please not to WKY Am I missing something there
That was me, I was just kidding around
You know how us Eastern Kentucky people are about the Western end of the state!
goodguy Wrote:That was me, I was just kidding around You know how us Eastern Kentucky people are about the Western end of the state!
Oh, I know you were, I thought it was funny
Stardust Wrote:Agreed, and I understand. But how do you measure whether you even have members in those areas. It's not as easy as you may wish to think that every with an opinion will start an opinion thread. That takes courage from someone to step outside their box and offer an opinion only to open themselves to criticism.
The easiest post to make is to comment on a game that was played in your area. Those are cake. Then, when someone else comments about the game in question, that is likely to create an opinion which then snowballs into a full dialog.
I agree that not every game should be posted, but how else do you begin drawing the interest. Look at the score posts to see if there are any VIEWS. If zero, then how do we as the BGR family (not just the Staff), find a way to then reach out to those areas. Soon, you will begin seeing those views, then comments, then ultimately opinions.
Agree? Disagree? What is your opinion?
I think if you concentrate on the more popular programs from a region that the site is trying to grow more members from, your chances of receiving comments from informed fans in that area along with opinions from members outside the region are greater.
For example: Bishop Brossart and University Heights have had success in the upcoming state All "A" Classic. Thread idea: "Will University Heights make the All "A"?" "Will Bishop Brossart Make the All A?" LCA has had a good run..."Top 5 State All "A" Favorites."
It's pretty much a given that we don't have the member support from most areas outside of EKY and your experiment proved it. This site is for opinions to be heard and we as staff do our best to curtail folks who don't respect other people's thoughts - that should give new members a since of confidence knowing that if they create a thread or post their comments, they're not going to be ragged on.
No one should be afraid to post anything reasonable on this site.
jammin' jamey Wrote:I think if you concentrate on the more popular programs from a region that the site is trying to grow more members from, your chances of receiving comments from informed fans in that area along with opinions from members outside the region are greater.
For example: Bishop Brossart and University Heights have had success in the upcoming state All "A" Classic. Thread idea: "Will University Heights make the All "A"?" "Will Bishop Brossart Make the All A?" LCA has had a good run..."Top 5 State All "A" Favorites."
It's pretty much a given that we don't have the member support from most areas outside of EKY and your experiment proved it. This site is for opinions to be heard and we as staff do our best to curtail folks who don't respect other people's thoughts - that should give new members a since of confidence knowing that if they create a thread or post their comments, they're not going to be ragged on.
No one should be afraid to post anything reasonable on this site.
Your idea works and could prove to be the best way, but how do you accomplish your idea? Do you think that maybe the best alternative is to find a way to assign within the BGR staff a different region within state begin posting threads on that area. It would require research and work, but would prove fruitful in building interest in those area's of the state that minimal or no support is at.
I think that if you worked with the rest of the BGR staff to make that happen, then that would help us build this into a true statewide site. Each member could take each of the regions, choose the schools and begin opinion threads or game predication threads. By simply creating the game prediction threads, which have been prominent on this site for a limited area of the state, this could create the interest in those areas in which you speak.
I truly believe that you are onto something, but it's going to take someone with the foresight to get this going. If no one is willing to take that approach, then how do you expect to grow the site statewide. If there is nothing on the site, including game finals posts, for games played in every region of the state, then we are putting absolutely noting on here for those folks to add comment to.
I don't feel it is as easy as you think for new members to just begin logging opinion columns/threads. For many new members to forums, they no nothing of the protocol. Thus, we the experienced must help promote that and begin by putting the words into their mouth. By doing that, you get a reply. Once a new member feels they can reply without hesitation, they become more active.
You are looking at this as an experienced forum's user. No disrespect, but I truly feel you need to step back and look at this as a new member venturing into an unknown land. You say that no one should be afraid to post anything. Easy for you who knows the site, not easy for those who know nothing o the site.
I think this is excellent banter, I truly appreciate you views and opinions. I think that you may be overlooking the complexity of how to drive growth may not be looking at this from it's most elemental position. I'm on your side to grow this site. I have brought an idea and a means to attempt that and to get the rest of the BGR staff and current members to think outside the box. I am an extremely new member to this site. You have been a member since 2005, can I ask what you and the rest of the long term members have done as an approach to grow the site. I certainly do not want to start something that may have failed in the past. But if this in new and has yet to be tried, why would you, a long term member wish to limit it without even seeing it merits anything.
This has happened for a week. What have we learned in a week, that it's not comfortable. Well is growth a challenge? Aren't challenges meant to be uncomfortable. Look, as mentioned before, I do not have to be the martyr. If this is something that the BGR staff does not feel comfortable from a new site member and you feel someone so new to the site may be doing something to undermine the site, then I ask that you work with the rest of the members who have been long term and divvy up what I have started. If this is not the approach, that's fine, but it's an idea that I brought to the table and one that I have been taking inordinate amounts of time to try to help this site.
I like this Jammin Jimmy, I beleive this is healthy for all of us to be challenged to do better or learn from our failures. But it's not a failure if it's not even tried!
I feel comfortable with it.
I also appreciate the amount of time it takes to do it.
Stardust Wrote:Your idea works and could prove to be the best way, but how do you accomplish your idea? Do you think that maybe the best alternative is to find a way to assign within the BGR staff a different region within state begin posting threads on that area. It would require research and work, but would prove fruitful in building interest in those area's of the state that minimal or no support is at.
I think that if you worked with the rest of the BGR staff to make that happen, then that would help us build this into a true statewide site. Each member could take each of the regions, choose the schools and begin opinion threads or game predication threads. By simply creating the game prediction threads, which have been prominent on this site for a limited area of the state, this could create the interest in those areas in which you speak.
I truly believe that you are onto something, but it's going to take someone with the foresight to get this going. If no one is willing to take that approach, then how do you expect to grow the site statewide. If there is nothing on the site, including game finals posts, for games played in every region of the state, then we are putting absolutely noting on here for those folks to add comment to.
I don't feel it is as easy as you think for new members to just begin logging opinion columns/threads. For many new members to forums, they no nothing of the protocol. Thus, we the experienced must help promote that and begin by putting the words into their mouth. By doing that, you get a reply. Once a new member feels they can reply without hesitation, they become more active.
You are looking at this as an experienced forum's user. No disrespect, but I truly feel you need to step back and look at this as a new member venturing into an unknown land. You say that no one should be afraid to post anything. Easy for you who knows the site, not easy for those who know nothing o the site.
I think this is excellent banter, I truly appreciate you views and opinions. I think that you may be overlooking the complexity of how to drive growth may not be looking at this from it's most elemental position. I'm on your side to grow this site. I have brought an idea and a means to attempt that and to get the rest of the BGR staff and current members to think outside the box. I am an extremely new member to this site. You have been a member since 2005, can I ask what you and the rest of the long term members have done as an approach to grow the site. I certainly do not want to start something that may have failed in the past. But if this in new and has yet to be tried, why would you, a long term member wish to limit it without even seeing it merits anything.
This has happened for a week. What have we learned in a week, that it's not comfortable. Well is growth a challenge? Aren't challenges meant to be uncomfortable. Look, as mentioned before, I do not have to be the martyr. If this is something that the BGR staff does not feel comfortable from a new site member and you feel someone so new to the site may be doing something to undermine the site, then I ask that you work with the rest of the members who have been long term and divvy up what I have started. If this is not the approach, that's fine, but it's an idea that I brought to the table and one that I have been taking inordinate amounts of time to try to help this site.
I like this Jammin Jimmy, I beleive this is healthy for all of us to be challenged to do better or learn from our failures. But it's not a failure if it's not even tried!
I think you're reading too much into this from my post. Most of my comments have been directed at you. If you do the leg-work just be telling us more about your region and starting more open forum threads about that region's sports scene - it will grow. That's the process. We didn't have anyone in your area that knew/understood enough about the sports scene there to expand honestly into the area. Now we have you and it will begin to grow.
We don't have the time or financial resources to truly market the site and expand ambitiously into the entire state in the right manner. We as staff have discussed ways to market the site through advertising before, the only problem is money. And honestly, no matter how much research and time I put in to learning about basketball in Region 2, I'll never know enough to realistically make a truly insightful post that's fair to that area.
Let's take it one place/one district/one school at a time through word of mouth. We saw that happen at Powell County, Estill County and Harlan County the past couple of seasons and things have begun to move and grow there. It just takes time.