With the 15th having some pretty good history, where would the Paintsville 2007-08 team rank..Undefeated in the region, all-a state final four, elite eight of the sweet 16, just lost 3 games to in-state teams, final record 30-4...
In my opinion, there has been many teams in the 15th that would have creamed last years Paintsville team. The history of the 15th is bitter sweet. With only a hand full of state championships, but it used to be a very competitive region all across the state.
Shoot, there have been a lot of teams who didn't even get out of the region who could have beat this year's Paintsville team. Not knocking what they accomplished this season, because they had a year they will ALWAYS remember, but as far back as I can remember, the 1975 Allen Central team9first year of consolidation), the 1980 Virgie team, 1981 and 1982 Allen Central teams, 1989 McDowell team, 1995 Allen Central team, just to name a few who didn't make it out of the region.
Throw in all those Virgie teams of the late 70s, early 80s, and all the teams in the 60s, the Paintsville teams of the 80s, and 90s, and they are way down on the totem pole as far as being one of the top teams in 15th region history.
daredevil4life Wrote:Shoot, there have been a lot of teams who didn't even get out of the region who could have beat this year's Paintsville team. Not knocking what they accomplished this season, because they had a year they will ALWAYS remember, but as far back as I can remember, the 1975 Allen Central team9first year of consolidation), the 1980 Virgie team, 1981 and 1982 Allen Central teams, 1989 McDowell team, 1995 Allen Central team, just to name a few who didn't make it out of the region.
Throw in all those Virgie teams of the late 70s, early 80s, and all the teams in the 60s, the Paintsville teams of the 80s, and 90s, and they are way down on the totem pole as far as being one of the top teams in 15th region history.
Well put.
I'd probabily put them top 5 or 6 this decade(excluding 96' Paintsville Tigers team) with teams like the 98' Paintsville,01' SV & AC, and the 03' Paintsville team and the team from JC who won the region in 99' I believe. Note that only two of those teams went on to win the 15th. But this Paintsville team would fit the mode of the Elight "Good" teams this decade...jmo
March Man Wrote:With the 15th having some pretty good history, where would the Paintsville 2007-08 team rank..Undefeated in the region, all-a state final four, elite eight of the sweet 16, just lost 3 games to in-state teams, final record 30-4...
Not even a top 20 Team of all time. This was the weakest the region has ever been. I think there have been past Paintsville teams that would've ran this team out of the gym. Pretty much every team in the late 80's and early 90's. Plus there have been other great teams in the 15th from Inez, Wheelright, Pikeville, and even some Shelby Valley teams.
I don't think you all realize that the game has changed..Now I could see the Paintsville teams of the 90's beating them, but no Allen Central team with the exception of the team that had Jeremy Hall and Thomas Jenkins...No Virgie team or Definitely no JCHS team could beat them..The game has changed alot!
March Man Wrote:I don't think you all realize that the game has changed..Now I could see the Paintsville teams of the 90's beating them, but no Allen Central team with the exception of the team that had Jeremy Hall and Thomas Jenkins...No Virgie team or Definitely no JCHS team could beat them..The game has changed alot!
I am guessing you are to young to remember the great Virgie teams...
Harry Meek would have a lot to say about your JCHS comments...
Are you kidding? No Virgie team? I guess you have never heard of the era of Todd May, all those Newsomes and Rowes he played with. Heck, the team Virgie beat 2 years in a row, Allen Central, in 1981 and 1982 would have run Paintsville out of the gym this season.
And don't get me started on the 1989 McDowell team of Henry Webb, Rady Martin, Dickie Joe Shannon, Marc Hall, Keith Shelton, Stacey Hall, and Jesse Osborne. A boat-load of talent that could shoot with the best of them.
And I totally forgot about the Todd Conley-led Elkhorn City teams of the early-to-mid 90s. Strong inside and outside games.
Again, these are only just a few mentioned of all the great 15th region teams in history.
And the 1984 JC team was a great team. Loved watching that team play.
If you dont know how good the Virgie teams where with Todd May then you have no idea of history. This team had (i might be wrong) 4 or 5 players that played in college and I am guessing low. I seen them play and have played against them when they where much older. I guess the game changed when I seen Todd May hit 17 three points in (i will give you a independ league) but I guess he could not shoot. He was only what 6'9. I guess people may forget that are not older than 20 that they also had Gerald Osborne that was list as one to the top 5 juniors in the STATE and one of the best shooters that I have every seen. Of course this was a time when most teams played zone or trap so it you shot outside, it was more than 19'9. You add the Rowes and Casebolt and so on and i guess they just would be lost in todays game since it has just went so far. Before anyone says something the same Rowe boys have seemed to adjust to the new system OK since they have taken several temas to the state as coaches. Congrats to this years P=ville team but to say that they would have just walked through this region in the past is disrespect. We have what 15-16 teams, back then you had over 20. I guess some people have forgot about consildation. It use to be a BIG thing to just make it to the region because you had 5 or 6 teams in your district. Now you have four and some 3 so somebody gets to go that probably would not have made it past the first round 20 years ago. If you want to question this, please look at the teams that get to play in the regional tourn. each year that don't even have a winning record or are just over 500. I guess I am just old but please prove me wrong "with fact".
Just another tought!!! Who on P-ville team would've been able to stop Mr. Basketball at 6'9 or more and could shoot. I seen them play several times this year and i am interested.
This group of Tigers were a good group and represented the region well at state. Just looking at the recent history of this group there were a lot of expectations since the appearance in the regional tournament since their freshman years and to finally achieve their team goal of getting to the big show "hats off" to this group.
when you look at comparing them to other teams in the regions history. due to height advantage many teams in the past would have given this team "fits". I can think of many teams that had a good guard and post combination that would have given this team some serious match-up problems.
Just a view from the seat behind the bench,
March Man Wrote:I don't think you all realize that the game has changed..Now I could see the Paintsville teams of the 90's beating them, but no Allen Central team with the exception of the team that had Jeremy Hall and Thomas Jenkins...No Virgie team or Definitely no JCHS team could beat them..The game has changed alot!
You must definately be wet behind the ears. The 1969 team fron JC was ranked third in the state and would have annihilated this team. That was one of the best teams to ever come out of this region. Also the 1975 Johnson Cental team would have beaten them, as they closed out the season ranked #7.
And by the way the game has not changed from the way those JC teams played. Who in the heck do you think invented the fast break style transition style of game? It was Aldolph Rupp, and that was exactly the way that Wendall Wallen ran his teams. The 75 JC team was maybe one of the best defensive teams to come out of this region as well. This Paintsville team couldn't play a lick of defense. The Belfry teams during the JJ Hylton years would have worn them out too.
And as far as some of the great Virgie teams, they could have beat this bunch by 30 points with no problems. Those Todd May teams rank right up there with the best that ever played in this region including the Paintsville teams.
I get amused at how many of these kids know so much about something they never saw. One of the most ridiculous statments in the history of BGR.
Chuck Taylor Wrote:I am guessing you are to young to remember the great Virgie teams...
Harry Meek would have a lot to say about your JCHS comments...
Harry might have a lot to say, but the 84 teams was maybe the 3rd or 4th best team to come out of JC. I would rank the 69 team #1 followed by the '75 team and possibly the 2000 team. They (and Harry) were a very good team though.
daredevil4life Wrote:Are you kidding? No Virgie team? I guess you have never heard of the era of Todd May, all those Newsomes and Rowes he played with. Heck, the team Virgie beat 2 years in a row, Allen Central, in 1981 and 1982 would have run Paintsville out of the gym this season.
And don't get me started on the 1989 McDowell team of Henry Webb, Rady Martin, Dickie Joe Shannon, Marc Hall, Keith Shelton, Stacey Hall, and Jesse Osborne. A boat-load of talent that could shoot with the best of them.
And I totally forgot about the Todd Conley-led Elkhorn City teams of the early-to-mid 90s. Strong inside and outside games.
Again, these are only just a few mentioned of all the great 15th region teams in history.
And the 1984 JC team was a great team. Loved watching that team play.
Those Elkhorn City teams were very underrated in my opinion.
Captain_44 Wrote:Those Elkhorn City teams were very underrated in my opinion.
From 1990-98 this Paintsville team had a very tough time with the top 3-4 in the region. You had some very tough Paintsville, Belfry, Allen Central, P-burg, Elkhorn City, Shelby Valley, Feds Creek, and Magoffin Co. teams that didn't even make it out the region. They would have gave Paintsville fits because of -1) Multiple big time scorers and 2) Superior post play.
Mr.Kimball Wrote:You must definately be wet behind the ears. The 1969 team fron JC was ranked third in the state and would have annihilated this team. That was one of the best teams to ever come out of this region. Also the 1975 Johnson Cental team would have beaten them, as they closed out the season ranked #7.
And by the way the game has not changed from the way those JC teams played. Who in the heck do you think invented the fast break style transition style of game? It was Aldolph Rupp, and that was exactly the way that Wendall Wallen ran his teams. The 75 JC team was maybe one of the best defensive teams to come out of this region as well. This Paintsville team couldn't play a lick of defense. The Belfry teams during the JJ Hylton years would have worn them out too.
And as far as some of the great Virgie teams, they could have beat this bunch by 30 points with no problems. Those Todd May teams rank right up there with the best that ever played in this region including the Paintsville teams.
I get amused at how many of these kids know so much about something they never saw. One of the most ridiculous statments in the history of BGR.
Good Post....but let's not forget about the teams from the 40's thru 70's, Inez won the state twice in 1941 and 1954. Wayland high school with Kelly Coleman or Flat Gap high school with Charlie Osborne both players are currently ranked 1-2 as all-time scorers,
the Virgie teams as others have mentioned and several others teams from the past were better than this years Paintsville team.
I would have loved to seen King Kelly and the Wayland Wasps play.
NEXT Wrote:From 1990-98 this Paintsville team had a very tough time with the top 3-4 in the region. You had some very tough Paintsville, Belfry, Allen Central, P-burg, Elkhorn City, Shelby Valley, Feds Creek, and Magoffin Co. teams that didn't even make it out the region. They would have gave Paintsville fits because of -1) Multiple big time scorers and 2) Superior post play.
Correct. Post play is a very good point because of so many good big men that played in the region during those years. As a matter of fact I dont think they could have even beaten the Paintsville team of '99 or the Johnson Central teams of '99 and 2000.
Old School Wrote:Good Post....but let's not forget about the teams from the 40's thru 70's, Inez won the state twice in 1941 and 1954. Wayland high school with Kelly Coleman or Flat Gap high school with Charlie Osborne both players are currently ranked 1-2 as all-time scorers,
the Virgie teams as others have mentioned and several others teams from the past were better than this years Paintsville team.
You also cannot forget the very good Meade Memorial teams with Alvin Ratliff and with those of Donis Butcher and the Oil Springs teams with Richard Conley and as well as the Flat Gap teams with Carrol Burchett. Right there I just named 3 players that were signed by UK and 2 that had brief stints in the NBA and one that coached in the NBA.
daredevil4life Wrote:Shoot, there have been a lot of teams who didn't even get out of the region who could have beat this year's Paintsville team. Not knocking what they accomplished this season, because they had a year they will ALWAYS remember, but as far back as I can remember, the 1975 Allen Central team9first year of consolidation), the 1980 Virgie team, 1981 and 1982 Allen Central teams, 1989 McDowell team, 1995 Allen Central team, just to name a few who didn't make it out of the region.
Throw in all those Virgie teams of the late 70s, early 80s, and all the teams in the 60s, the Paintsville teams of the 80s, and 90s, and they are way down on the totem pole as far as being one of the top teams in 15th region history.
That Allen Central team was far from even being in contention for a regional championship that year. In fact I dont think that was even their first year. I think it was more like in '73, with Howard Wallen making his coaching debut with that team. The best team in the region in '75 was very easily Johnson Central as they steamrolled through the regional finals by beating a very talented Virgie team by 32 points in the regional championship game and ended up ranked 7th in the state. Prestonsburg and Virgie were both very good, as was Belfry. I dont think that Allen Central in '75 would have been a top 5 team in the region as I would rank Mullins (with Jackie Fyffe, and Jack Gibson) above them, as well as the other 4 teams that I mentioned.
The 78 Virgie team should be talked about in this forum.....probably one of the region's better shooting guards in "Stoney" Newsome and what a season this group had....and not only dominated regional play yet, went on down to the big city and competed...
Agree with earlier statements concerning the Johnson Central teams of the ole school years with Howard Wallen and Paul Lemaster who both went on and experienced great careers at Morehead State University. Wallen's jumpshot from the top of the key and his deft passing ability would have had Bill Mike out on the court himself trying to figure out what Wallen was going to do next. Lemaster just took it so personal when someone scored on him I would have a front row seat to him and Landon going against each other.
Speaking of Landon Slone what a match-up of he would have with his father's team at Allen Central (80) which should have been a state tournament team.
the Feds Creek team would have given this team "fits" with the combo of Fuller and Thompson...
Then you have to think how would this team defended the good teams that Bill Mike had in the mid and late 90's..
BondJamesBond Wrote:The 78 Virgie team should be talked about in this forum.....probably one of the region's better shooting guards in "Stoney" Newsome and what a season this group had....and not only dominated regional play yet, went on down to the big city and competed...
Agree with earlier statements concerning the Johnson Central teams of the ole school years with Howard Wallen and Paul Lemaster who both went on and experienced great careers at Morehead State University. Wallen's jumpshot from the top of the key and his deft passing ability would have had Bill Mike out on the court himself trying to figure out what Wallen was going to do next. Lemaster just took it so personal when someone scored on him I would have a front row seat to him and Landon going against each other.
Speaking of Landon Slone what a match-up of he would have with his father's team at Allen Central (80) which should have been a state tournament team.
the Feds Creek team would have given this team "fits" with the combo of Fuller and Thompson...
Then you have to think how would this team defended the good teams that Bill Mike had in the mid and late 90's..
LeMaster would have eaten Landon alive. Paul Bradley and Phillip Wireman were the two most tenacious defensive players I ever watched in this region. I've got practice battle scars to prove it. It was all out war every single day. Nobody gave an inch .
I think the younger people forget that this region use to be made up of over 20 teams ( and i am just guessing). To make it to the state is a great deal but in the past you had to play a great deal more teams. We have districts now that have 3 teams and two get in. In the past you NEVER had lest than four teama and usually more like 5 or 6 to just make it our of the district. So to say tha todays teams could play with the past is to me a slap in the face. I guess i am old but you had more kids playing, more teams in envolved, ect. Now you are lucky if you have 5 for 6 kids on the team that LOVE the game because they have a thousand things to do besides play basketball. We did not have that. Most kids today want to be on the team and be seen but they dont want to do want it takes to be a great player. I may be wrong, but please list any player in the last 15 years that has went to a D-I school AND STAYED. We have some players that have been able but they dont stay. I also think that is why it is hard for our kids to get looked at because they usually dont staly.
Mr.Kimball Wrote:Correct. Post play is a very good point because of so many good big men that played in the region during those years. As a matter of fact I dont think they could have even beaten the Paintsville team of '99 or the Johnson Central teams of '99 and 2000.
What year did Mitchel Coleman play for JC?
The year Pikeville won it they were also a very good, balanced team
BillSelf Wrote:I would have loved to seen King Kelly and the Wayland Wasps play.
So would I. I think those were the days of great players from the "Mountain".
I would also like to see some records of when Pete Jr. coached at McDowell. From what i hear the late 60's early 70's teams. from all schools, made a statement in the 15th. I think the kids these days do not have a "Coach" to drive them like Pete and the other 15th coachs from the days of old. I think today's coachs are more interested in making a name for themselves than for the kids, their school, and a team as one. I would love for these kids today to see tapes of "old school ball" and see how they compare. Take away the 3 point line, the showboat player, and put your heart into the game. I know it would be a rare film, but anyone with any "old school tapes" please post them.
NEXT Wrote:What year did Mitchel Coleman play for JC?
The year Pikeville won it they were also a very good, balanced team
Mitchel graduated in 2000.
Mr.Kimball Wrote:That Allen Central team was far from even being in contention for a regional championship that year. In fact I dont think that was even their first year. I think it was more like in '73, with Howard Wallen making his coaching debut with that team. The best team in the region in '75 was very easily Johnson Central as they steamrolled through the regional finals by beating a very talented Virgie team by 32 points in the regional championship game and ended up ranked 7th in the state. Prestonsburg and Virgie were both very good, as was Belfry. I dont think that Allen Central in '75 would have been a top 5 team in the region as I would rank Mullins (with Jackie Fyffe, and Jack Gibson) above them, as well as the other 4 teams that I mentioned.
73-74 was the first year for Allen Central Basketball but the coach was Gene Frasure. Howard Wallen didn't become coach until the 76-77 team. But in those mid 70's team more teams were competitive with Allen Central having a good big man in Stretch Gearheart, Betsy Layne having Dan Hall who signed with UK and transfering to Marshall after his first year and Wheelwright having Riley who I think played for Georgia Tech(But not real sure) so just about everyone had really good teams back then and there were a lot more teams in the region also.
slingblade93 Wrote:73-74 was the first year for Allen Central Basketball but the coach was Gene Frasure. Howard Wallen didn't become coach until the 76-77 team. But in those mid 70's team more teams were competitive with Allen Central having a good big man in Stretch Gearheart, Betsy Layne having Dan Hall who signed with UK and transfering to Marshall after his first year and Wheelwright having Riley who I think played for Georgia Tech(But not real sure) so just about everyone had really good teams back then and there were a lot more teams in the region also.
I'm not so sure about that because Johnson Central beat Maytown in the '72 finals and I was pretty sure that was the last year for Maytown/ Martin/ Garrett/ and Wayland. Maybe you are correct on that. I could be off a year. Sheldon Clark did originate beginning the '72-'73 season though. But I dont think that you are correct at all about Howard starting in the '76-'77 season. In fact, I know that's wrong because Howard was coaching there while I was still playing, and I graduated in '76. Perhaps he started in the 75-76 season? I remember we beat Allen Central in a father/son matchup in a game that Wendall Wallen did not really want to play to begin with. It was a bittersweet victory for him. I am pretty sure we played that game in the Jenny Wiley Invitational Tournament at PBurg. Allen Central did have a Slone boy that was really good, he had blond, almost white hair and could jump out of the gym. I cant remember his first name though. Perhaps someone else can remember that. Seems like in the 75-76 season Allen Central got a new Tartan surface on their floor. That was the big thing going on at that time.
I am correct about the '75 season though in that all 5 of the teams that I mentioned were the top 5 teams in the 15th.
As far as Danny Hall, he graduated in '74, and you are correct went to UK and then transferred to Marshall.
Jeff Riley went to Georgia Tech and then later transferred to Morehead.
This was a average team in a below average region. The 15th will be even weaker next year Besides SV.