Bluegrassrivals

I know that a refs job is harder than it looks and we all think we could call a game from the bleachers, but is it just me or are most refs just horrible. I dont go to a whole lot of high school basketball games, but the ones I do go to it seems like the officiating is just horrible. When I was in high school I dont remember it being like this. It's like they don't even know the rules of the game anymore. For example, last night at the 15th region tourney, between both games I would say there was 25 or 30 traveling violations called, or more. There may have been 4 or 5 that was actually traveling. Has anyone else noticed this or am I just crazy?

VoR_58 Wrote:I know that a refs job is harder than it looks and we all think we could call a game from the bleachers, but is it just me or are most refs just horrible. I dont go to a whole lot of high school basketball games, but the ones I do go to it seems like the officiating is just horrible. When I was in high school I dont remember it being like this. It's like they don't even know the rules of the game anymore. For example, last night at the 15th region tourney, between both games I would say there was 25 or 30 traveling violations called, or more. There may have been 4 or 5 that was actually traveling. Has anyone else noticed this or am I just crazy?

I'll be the first to admit I haven't been overly happy with their inconsistency this year, but it is a tough job to be a ref in this day and age. The game is faster, the players better, etc. Much more bang-bang type of calls. My biggest problem has been their inconsistency. It's almost as if they ref by memo. What I mean is, one weekend, they will be just dialed in on travels, the next, lane violations, then the travels are ignored, then the next it will be something completely different... It's almost as if they get emails saying that supervisors are noticing this or that isn't being called and they focus on that in the next game. I'm not knocking them at all, just wish they would call the game. Period. If its a walk, call it. If its a charge, call it. But call it the same from game to game.

I wouldn't want to be a ref today, though, I will say that. In the games I've seen at the Expo center, the refs were pretty consistent from beginning to end, thats the way it should be.

With what they are paid and the price of gas these days there is not a lot of incentive to be a referee. Add on to that most all of them work an everyday job then drive a couple hours to show up and listen to a bunch of mommies and daddies who don't half know the rules yell at them all night.

We are probably fortunate they do as good a job as they do all things considered.

If you think these Varsity high school refs are bad and inconsistant, go watch their replacements call a JV game.

Refs have been about the same for me over the last several years.

Willie Turnover Wrote:If you think these Varsity high school refs are bad and inconsistant, go watch their replacements call a JV game.

Heck, I've had TWO of the JV refs call little league games I coach this year. I wear them out THERE too! nicker:

If you think these guys are horrible....
watch me call a game and you will be begging for them lol

Altro Cat Wrote:With what they are paid and the price of gas these days there is not a lot of incentive to be a referee. Add on to that most all of them work an everyday job then drive a couple hours to show up and listen to a bunch of mommies and daddies who don't half know the rules yell at them all night.

We are probably fortunate they do as good a job as they do all things considered.

Well if they aren't paid very well and they must drive hours to get to a game, then what's their incentive to officiate a game at all?

And if they choose to do the job, whether it be for the love of the game or wanting to help with the youth, etc, then they should DO the job!

As far as the mommies and daddies go, they appear to me to know the rules just fine, or they wouldn't know when to protest. Oh, I know THEIR child doesn't foul, and THEIR child gets fouled all the time....bull!! Those kinds of people are a dime a dozen, and they normally are over it by the time the game is over.

I absolutely have serious concerns over the officiating, at least in the games I've seen this year. I never saw one 3 second call in the entire district and regional tournaments games this year, and very few walking calls. I don't think the officials leaned toward one team BUT the consistencey isn't there...it just isn't there!

Truthfully, I've seen countless times where the shooter was fouled to the point of injury and NO call; while in the next seconds "touch" fouls were assessed. I can name games and names, too.. AND the differences in the officials from one region to the next is astounding.

I don't know the answer to this problem, but there is definately a problem...IMO.

I gotta agree with PHS. The games at the Expo have been officiated pretty good. And from what I have seen. All the walks that have been called....ARE Walks.

I think the majority of inconsitantcy comes from having a different ref every game. If two people see contact occur then one may call that a foul and the other may not. Refing is all a matter of opinion and when you get someone's different opinion every night then inconsistantcy comes into play. Just like in most games, if one ref is under the goal and is calling every contact a foul then on the other end another ref under the goal isn't calling the same contact a foul then inconsistancy is occuring.
The only way you could solve this is make all contact a foul then every stick to it but then scoring would go up and defense would dissapear. There a fine line also thats why refs can make a 10 point swing in the game without anyone even noticing majority of times.

Ok, I had to to respond to this post so those who get on here, post, or just read, know why it is MOST good officials do what they do.

3 seconds is not called, and some fouls, because officials talk to the players and ask them to get out of the lane or watch the pushing or hands. They don't want to call everything and have the game last any longer than they do. Plus, coaches don't want that as well. They talk the players out of a lot of stuff so the game can keep moving. You give players the chance to stop doing something before it is called. If they don't listen after being given a chance, then it gets called.

This goes for all officials who are decent enough to work the big games you see. And if you were an official, you would want to do it as well.

And for those of you who say you know the rules, I would invite you to call the KHSAA, ask for they info to take the officials test to get your license, and come on out and start officiating high school games. Espcecially for those JV games where sometimes there are 2 bad ones on the floor, as has been said. And is true, sometimes.

And not EVERY official in the 15th region is bad or inconsistent. Marc Hall, Mike Hall, Johnny Webb, Jimmie Cecil, Paul Pelphrey, Steve Keene, and a few more, are the same night in and night out. Some of you may disagree with that assessment, but after watching for a couple or more years, that is what I have seen.

daredevil4life Wrote:Ok, I had to to respond to this post so those who get on here, post, or just read, know why it is MOST good officials do what they do.

3 seconds is not called, and some fouls, because officials talk to the players and ask them to get out of the lane or watch the pushing or hands. They don't want to call everything and have the game last any longer than they do. Plus, coaches don't want that as well. They talk the players out of a lot of stuff so the game can keep moving. You give players the chance to stop doing something before it is called. If they don't listen after being given a chance, then it gets called.
This goes for all officials who are decent enough to work the big games you see. And if you were an official, you would want to do it as well.

And for those of you who say you know the rules, I would invite you to call the KHSAA, ask for they info to take the officials test to get your license, and come on out and start officiating high school games. Espcecially for those JV games where sometimes there are 2 bad ones on the floor, as has been said. And is true, sometimes.

And not EVERY official in the 15th region is bad or inconsistent. Marc Hall, Mike Hall, Johnny Webb, Jimmie Cecil, Paul Pelphrey, Steve Keene, and a few more, are the same night in and night out. Some of you may disagree with that assessment, but after watching for a couple or more years, that is what I have seen.

First bold - I couldn't agree more. That is great officiating, and I have no problem with it.

Second bold - I had my officiating license for several years, but not now.

Third bold - I'm from the 13th region.

Granny Bear Wrote:First bold - I couldn't agree more. That is great officiating, and I have no problem with it.

Second bold - I had my officiating license for several years, but not now.

Third bold - I'm from the 13th region.

Your Officials have done a very good job, IMO at the Expo!

As for the telling kids to get out of the paint or keep your hands off. During the Regular Season. IMO, that is fine. BUT, it is now Regional Tourney time and this is VARSITY Basketball and they should ALL know what they can and can't do. If you want them out of the paint. Call it...and they will get the picture.

After enduring the regular season with the 15th region refs I loved the refs at the Expo.I do think they may have overcalled the travel also but at least it was called on both teams.It seemed to me we had anyone but Belfry refs in the regular season.Belfry played out of state and did not have much foul trouble.In our region more than double most times fouls called on Belfry.At east ridge in the season the fouls were amost 40 to 12 at the end of the game.It is my opinion why none of the district winners advanced in the region.Our refs have the teams they are for My opinion.

VoR_58 Wrote:I know that a refs job is harder than it looks and we all think we could call a game from the bleachers, but is it just me or are most refs just horrible. I dont go to a whole lot of high school basketball games, but the ones I do go to it seems like the officiating is just horrible. When I was in high school I dont remember it being like this. It's like they don't even know the rules of the game anymore. For example, last night at the 15th region tourney, between both games I would say there was 25 or 30 traveling violations called, or more. There may have been 4 or 5 that was actually traveling. Has anyone else noticed this or am I just crazy?

I first want to say if 30 traveling calls were made, I'm sure more than just 5 was traveling. That is alot of missed calls and for the games I have seen the travel is least called than all. (without the 3 second call)

Here is the problem; I may call the hand check, you may call traveling, and our partner may call a little bump. I think all officials have their own little violation or foul they watch for more than others. For example; I have seen alot of 12th and 13th region games this year; in the 12th they don't know what a hand check is heck they don't even know what a hold is. In the 13th I have seen alot of no calls on a block/charge and some games you would see some travels and others you would have a travel every other play. So thats where the problem lies, everyone looks for different things.

PHSForever Wrote:Heck, I've had TWO of the JV refs call little league games I coach this year. I wear them out THERE too! nicker:

And this is another reason for "bad reffing"! If I was calling a game and you was yelling at me all night, yeah you would have an early exit.irateSho

Granny Bear Wrote:Well if they aren't paid very well and they must drive hours to get to a game, then what's their incentive to officiate a game at all?

And if they choose to do the job, whether it be for the love of the game or wanting to help with the youth, etc, then they should DO the job!

As far as the mommies and daddies go, they appear to me to know the rules just fine, or they wouldn't know when to protest. Oh, I know THEIR child doesn't foul, and THEIR child gets fouled all the time....bull!! Those kinds of people are a dime a dozen, and they normally are over it by the time the game is over.

I absolutely have serious concerns over the officiating, at least in the games I've seen this year. I never saw one 3 second call in the entire district and regional tournaments games this year, and very few walking calls. I don't think the officials leaned toward one team BUT the consistencey isn't there...it just isn't there!

Truthfully, I've seen countless times where the shooter was fouled to the point of injury and NO call; while in the next seconds "touch" fouls were assessed. I can name games and names, too.. AND the differences in the officials from one region to the next is astounding.

I don't know the answer to this problem, but there is definately a problem...IMO.

I can agree and disagree with the first bold. I was at a 13th region game this year and a couple of fans next to me was yelling 5 seconds, call the 5 seconds ref. The problem was, the players were in back court.:hilarious:
Another example: I heard a fan, again in the 13th, yelling that's a travel. Hey are you blind thats a travel. Yeah, the player was throwing the ball inbounds. There is no travel on an inbounds.

On the last bold, the problem here is maybe Official Johnny didn't see the hard foul or maybe thought he was flopping or whatever. Than on the other end Official Pete sees a kid get slapped across the arm and calls it. Two different officials seeing two different things.

Just made up names by the way.

OffTheHook Wrote:Your Officials have done a very good job, IMO at the Expo!

As for the telling kids to get out of the paint or keep your hands off. During the Regular Season. IMO, that is fine. BUT, it is now Regional Tourney time and this is VARSITY Basketball and they should ALL know what they can and can't do. If you want them out of the paint. Call it...and they will get the picture.

I totally agree. I have seen two calls from the 13th that impressed me. I was sitting in the middle across from the score table at Wayne County this year when Wayne County played Knox Central. Knox Central came down with the ball took a couple shots and on the second shot was clearly fouled, with the ref blowing the whistle the horn goes off. I could count how many times I have seen this on one hand in th past 15 years or so. I was on the same side as the official that called the foul and don't really understand what the fans and coaching staff from Wayne County was yelling about. It was clearly a foul. I really felt bad for the ref but was glad he made the call, it was a foul. The official was a younger guy, I haven't seen him before but thought he did he great job the whole game.

The next call was the call you can still see on youtube. All three officals was vets and to make a call like that on Trinty was a big time call. I don't know if this was a correct call, I wasn' there, but at least the would call the game till the end. I was pretty impressed with the 13th regions refs compared to the 12th.

b1gblu3sports Wrote:And this is another reason for "bad reffing"! If I was calling a game and you was yelling at me all night, yeah you would have an early exit.irateSho

It was a joke. I give them a hard time when they call 75 traveling calls a game in a game where 10 and 11 year olds are playing. Other than that, they know it is good natured ribbing from me. I don't mean I wear them out like the Rupp crowd does. Ease up, every coach rides refs a little, sounds like you would be a "T" bomb. lol

Ive always said that each night their should be a different region officiating the regionals Example 14th region: first night 13th officals second night: 15th region semifinals:12 region Finals: 16 region Thats the only way its going to fair.

To those who want to gripe over referees, do this. Call the KHSAA and get your credentials to call a basketball game. After you call One heated game, let's see where you stand or sit on officiating. I bet you have a totally different respect for officials. KHSAA 2280 Executive Drive, Lexington, KY 40505 They're looking for GOOD officials all the time.

b1gblu3sports Wrote:I can agree and disagree with the first bold. I was at a 13th region game this year and a couple of fans next to me was yelling 5 seconds, call the 5 seconds ref. The problem was, the players were in back court.:hilarious:
Another example: I heard a fan, again in the 13th, yelling that's a travel. Hey are you blind thats a travel. Yeah, the player was throwing the ball inbounds. There is no travel on an inbounds.

On the last bold, the problem here is maybe Official Johnny didn't see the hard foul or maybe thought he was flopping or whatever. Than on the other end Official Pete sees a kid get slapped across the arm and calls it. Two different officials seeing two different things.

Just made up names by the way.

Ummmm, you can only move or run the baseline after a basket is made. Or following a timeout directly after a basket You must stay set just like youve picked up your dribble any other time. Otherwise, its called as a walk.

What were you all saying about fans yelling the wrong rules?

Wrong, when you are taking ball out of bounds on the "spot" you actually CAN move. You have three feet to either your left and right, plus as far as you want to move forward or backwards. Just dont cross the line. Also the defender doesn't have to give three feet, now some official may have them move back if it's really tight on a sideline.

14 the Region finals. Breathitt vs. Knott. What kind of fool calls a blocking foul with 8 tenths of a second left in the game? You let the kids decide the outcome in OT. Yes a foul is a foul I know but if your team was done this way, you would feel the same way. Another case of injustice to kids. One fool can take everything away from you. :lame:

The_Rock Wrote:14 the Region finals. Breathitt vs. Knott. What kind of fool calls a blocking foul with 8 tenths of a second left in the game? You let the kids decide the outcome in OT. Yes a foul is a foul I know but if your team was done this way, you would feel the same way. Another case of injustice to kids. One fool can take everything away from you. :lame:

No..You can't punish the ref for making a call of an obvious foul. Granted the situation being tied and the importance of the game, he made the call and it was the right call whether it decided the game or not. You say let the kids decide the outcome of the game, they did, the player from Breathitt decided to foul Camron Justice on the inbounds. Looking back on the video, the player that fouled him must have thought they were down or something and he needed to foul to stop the clock, because he mugged Justice who almost fell to the ground after the foul. As a player you have to know the score of the game and be aware of the clock, Breathitt players should have gotten away from Justice and let him throw a full court heave which had very little chance of going in.

Dont agree with you. As much flopping as Justice does, how can you tell if he really gets fouled. I dont see Cox doing to much damage. He's 5'3 buck o five tops. You dont call a fould with 8 tenths of a second on the clock. Dont care if Trent form tackled Davis. You let it go.

Have to agree it was a foul and the kid was very torn up while Justice was at the line shooting his free throws. He was over apologizing to Coach Fugate during the shots. Really feel bad for the kid, BUT, after all the stuff that was let go during this game, what is 4 minutes more going to hurt letting them play. I feel as in most cases except when the 15th region refs are around, this type of situation is handled differently and the kids decide the game in overtime. Not arguing that it wasn't a foul, but there were a lot worse ones just not called the whole game, and some of those were even on shots, this one wasn't even a shot, it was 80 ft from the basket with less than a second to go. Just sad to see such a great game end like this.

OffTheHook Wrote:

When the referee hands the ball to the inbounder, the player must stay within three feet of that spot. If the player moves beyond three feet, then possession reverts to the opposing team. And that's left, right or backwards.

Just left and right for the 3 ft. You can back up as far as you want too if there is room.irateSho

^May be. The version of the rule I read stated just what I posted. "within three feet of that spot". So my interpretation was, in any direction. It didn't state anything about backwards. But, this is a mute argument. No where in the nation can you move more than three feet backwards any ways.