[nannook]

Larkin came up short once again in his bid to be elected to the Baseball HOF. This year he got 62% of the vote. Last year he got 55%. It takes 75% to be elected.

IMO Larkin is a HOF. IMO a HOF is a player who was one of the best at his position during his era.

Here are some facts provided by espn...

Won 9 Silver Slugger awards. Only 3 players in the history of Baseball have won more, A-Rod with 10, Bonds 12, Piazza 10.

The only shortstop to steal 50 bases in any season in the '90s, and the first shortstop ever to join the 30-30 Club. He was safe 83.1 percent of the time, anyway -- which is merely the fifth-best stolen-base success rate since the invention of the caught-stealing stat, among members of the 200-SB Society.

Won three consecutive Gold Gloves (1994 to 1996) while Ozzie Smith was still playing.

One MVP award (1995)

More All-Star teams (12) than any shortstop in history except Ozzie and Ripken.

Career batting average over 19 seasons, was .295. The average shortstop in that time hit .256. That's a difference of 39 points -- or 15 percent.

Career on-base percentage was .371. The average shortstop's OBP was .317. So Larkin beat that by 54 points or 17 percent.

Career slugging percentage was .444. The average shortstop slugged .361. So that's an 83-point gap or 23 percent.

Career OPS (.815) was 137 points -- or 20 percent -- better than the average shortstop of his time (.678). The only two shortstops in the past 35 years who had an OPS that much better than the rest of their generation were A-Rod (31 percent) and Nomar Garciaparra (25 percent). But both of them moved to other positions before end-of-career declines shrunk those gaps. Larkin only played SS.

I say yes and hope the voters give him the 13% next year he will need to be elected.

Go Reds!

[Jarons]

Without a doubt he is a Hall of Famer, should have been elected in last year. Larkin is one of the most underrated players in MLB history. If he had played for a large market team, he would have been already selected.

[Stardust]

I believe he does qualify as a HOF'er, but Larkin regrettably played during the Steroid era. His numbers are incredible, especially when compared to other SS's in the HOF. But unfortunately voters lump guys like Larkin into that mix of players with artificially inflated numbers. Over his career, I would take him over Alomar's numbers, but Alomar had a couple of those huge years that put the sparkle in the voers eyes. I think he gets in eventually, but probably not until he is off the ballot and he is voted in by the Old Timers association.

[LeeCoUKFan]

I think that Larkin should finally get the 75.0% of the vote needed to get in next year!

[Stardust]

I think that Larkin should finally get the 75.0% of the vote needed to get in next year!

If he does not get in next year, which is the best chance that I see in the foreseeable future, he will not get in in the eligible years he can be on the ballot. Below, I highlighted the guys I think have a better chance of getting the votes, or taking votes away from Barry, who either get elected over him that won't get penalized for Steroid controversy.

2012: Edgardo Alfonzo, Pedro Astacio, David Bell, Jeromy Burnitz, Vinny Castilla, Scott Erickson, Carl Everett, Jeff Fassero, Alex S. Gonzalez, Danny Graves, Rick Helling, Dustin Hermanson, Jose Hernandez, Brian Jordan, Matt Lawton, Javy Lopez, Bill Mueller, Terry Mulholland, Jeff Nelson, Phil Nevin, Brad Radke, Joe Randa, Tim Salmon, Ruben Sierra, Jose Vizcaino, Bernie Williams, Eric Young

2013: Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Craig Biggio, Curt Schilling, Sammy Sosa, Mike Piazza, Kenny Lofton, David Wells, Julio Franco, Shawn Green, Steve Finley, Roberto Hernandez, Jeff Cirillo, Jose Valentin, Reggie Sanders, Jeff Conine, Jose Mesa, Royce Clayton, Bob Wickman, Ryan Klesko, Aaron Sele, Woody Williams, Rondell White, Mike Lieberthal, Tony Batista, Mike Stanton, Sandy Alomar Jr., Damian Miller, Todd Walker

2014: Moises Alou, Armando Benitez, Sean Casey, Jose Cruz Jr., Ray Durham, Damion Easley, Jim Edmonds, Keith Foulke, Eric Gagne, Tom Glavine, Luis Gonzalez, Mark Grudzielanek, Scott Hatteberg, Jacque Jones, Todd Jones, Jeff Kent, Jon Lieber, Esteban Loaiza, Paul Lo Duca, Greg Maddux, Matt Morris, Mike Mussina, Trot Nixon, Hideo Nomo, Jay Payton, Kenny Rogers, Richie Sexson, J.T. Snow, Shannon Stewart, Frank Thomas, Mike Timlin, Steve Trachsel, Jose Vidro

2015: Nomar Garciaparra, Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, John Smoltz

2016: Brad Ausmus, Ken Griffey Jr.

[Jarons]

If he does not get in next year, which is the best chance that I see in the foreseeable future, he will not get in in the eligible years he can be on the ballot. Below, I highlighted the guys I think have a better chance of getting the votes, or taking votes away from Barry, who either get elected over him that won't get penalized for Steroid controversy.

2012: Edgardo Alfonzo, Pedro Astacio, David Bell, Jeromy Burnitz, Vinny Castilla, Scott Erickson, Carl Everett, Jeff Fassero, Alex S. Gonzalez, Danny Graves, Rick Helling, Dustin Hermanson, Jose Hernandez, Brian Jordan, Matt Lawton, Javy Lopez, Bill Mueller, Terry Mulholland, Jeff Nelson, Phil Nevin, Brad Radke, Joe Randa, Tim Salmon, Ruben Sierra, Jose Vizcaino, Bernie Williams, Eric Young

2013: Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Craig Biggio, Curt Schilling, Sammy Sosa, Mike Piazza, Kenny Lofton, David Wells, Julio Franco, Shawn Green, Steve Finley, Roberto Hernandez, Jeff Cirillo, Jose Valentin, Reggie Sanders, Jeff Conine, Jose Mesa, Royce Clayton, Bob Wickman, Ryan Klesko, Aaron Sele, Woody Williams, Rondell White, Mike Lieberthal, Tony Batista, Mike Stanton, Sandy Alomar Jr., Damian Miller, Todd Walker

2014: Moises Alou, Armando Benitez, Sean Casey, Jose Cruz Jr., Ray Durham, Damion Easley, Jim Edmonds, Keith Foulke, Eric Gagne, Tom Glavine, Luis Gonzalez, Mark Grudzielanek, Scott Hatteberg, Jacque Jones, Todd Jones, Jeff Kent, Jon Lieber, Esteban Loaiza, Paul Lo Duca, Greg Maddux, Matt Morris, Mike Mussina, Trot Nixon, Hideo Nomo, Jay Payton, Kenny Rogers, Richie Sexson, J.T. Snow, Shannon Stewart, Frank Thomas, Mike Timlin, Steve Trachsel, Jose Vidro

2015: Nomar Garciaparra, Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, John Smoltz

2016: Brad Ausmus, Ken Griffey Jr.

Are the bolded the players you predict to be voted in for that ballot?

[Stardust]

Are the bolded the players you predict to be voted in for that ballot?

I'm not necessarily saying they will be elected, but it's who Barry has to compete against to get votes. I believe these guys will get significant votes from the committee, and it requires 75% of the vote to get elected. So, these guys could take votes away from Barry that could keep him from getting 75%. Next year, I believe the only player who will likely get the 75% as a definite is Bernie Williams, especially since he is so loved by the media. Then a guy like Sierra should garner considerable votes because of his number of years played. Thus, Bernie may be the only guy who gets the 75% leaving everyone else out.

[Jarons]

I'm not necessarily saying they will be elected, but it's who Barry has to compete against to get votes. I believe these guys will get significant votes from the committee, and it requires 75% of the vote to get elected. So, these guys could take votes away from Barry that could keep him from getting 75%. Next year, I believe the only player who will likely get the 75% as a definite is Bernie Williams, especially since he is so loved by the media. Then a guy like Sierra should garner considerable votes because of his number of years played. Thus, Bernie may be the only guy who gets the 75% leaving everyone else out.

Gotcha. Unfortunatly Williams will be selected just because he was loved so much by the media. IMO Williams is not worthy of the HOF. He was a good player on a good team and he was a Yankee most of his career. Everyone knows how the media loves the Yankees.
Larkin is more deserving of the HOF than Williams.

[Truth]

If he does not get in next year, which is the best chance that I see in the foreseeable future, he will not get in in the eligible years he can be on the ballot. Below, I highlighted the guys I think have a better chance of getting the votes, or taking votes away from Barry, who either get elected over him that won't get penalized for Steroid controversy.

2012: Edgardo Alfonzo, Pedro Astacio, David Bell, Jeromy Burnitz, Vinny Castilla, Scott Erickson, Carl Everett, Jeff Fassero, Alex S. Gonzalez, Danny Graves, Rick Helling, Dustin Hermanson, Jose Hernandez, Brian Jordan, Matt Lawton, Javy Lopez, Bill Mueller, Terry Mulholland, Jeff Nelson, Phil Nevin, Brad Radke, Joe Randa, Tim Salmon, Ruben Sierra, Jose Vizcaino, Bernie Williams, Eric Young

2013: Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Craig Biggio, Curt Schilling, Sammy Sosa, Mike Piazza, Kenny Lofton, David Wells, Julio Franco, Shawn Green, Steve Finley, Roberto Hernandez, Jeff Cirillo, Jose Valentin, Reggie Sanders, Jeff Conine, Jose Mesa, Royce Clayton, Bob Wickman, Ryan Klesko, Aaron Sele, Woody Williams, Rondell White, Mike Lieberthal, Tony Batista, Mike Stanton, Sandy Alomar Jr., Damian Miller, Todd Walker

2014: Moises Alou, Armando Benitez, Sean Casey, Jose Cruz Jr., Ray Durham, Damion Easley, Jim Edmonds, Keith Foulke, Eric Gagne, Tom Glavine, Luis Gonzalez, Mark Grudzielanek, Scott Hatteberg, Jacque Jones, Todd Jones, Jeff Kent, Jon Lieber, Esteban Loaiza, Paul Lo Duca, Greg Maddux, Matt Morris, Mike Mussina, Trot Nixon, Hideo Nomo, Jay Payton, Kenny Rogers, Richie Sexson, J.T. Snow, Shannon Stewart, Frank Thomas, Mike Timlin, Steve Trachsel, Jose Vidro

2015: Nomar Garciaparra, Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, John Smoltz

2016: Brad Ausmus, Ken Griffey Jr.

I would agree that Larkin needs to get the votes next year or he could wait for a while. As I stated in another thread, I hope the voters get a lot more selective in the future. The Hall should be for only the absolute best.

Using that standard, I don't think any of those becoming eligible in 2012 should ever be elected. That opens the door for Larkin.

For those becoming eligible in 2013, Piazza and Biggio stand out. Bonds and Clemens also stand out but the voters may exclude them because of drugs which is fine with me. I personally like Schilling but he isn't in the same class with the pitchers (other than Martinez) who should and will be elected in 2014 and 2015.

As for 2014, Glavine and Maddux (one of the six best pitchers of all time) are obvious Hall of Famers. Only Kent of the rest deserves serious consideration. He will get in sooner or later with my preference being much later.

Smoltz, Johnson, and Martinez (least of the three) should be elected in 2015.

Griffey is obvious in 2016.

I am a traditionalist. I think first year election should be limited to only the exceptional. Remember, the great Denton True Young wasn't elected until his second year on the ballot. And, surely we all can agree that the greatest record in all of sport is his career 511 wins.

[Truth]

Gotcha. Unfortunatly Williams just because he was loved so much by the media. IMO Williams is not worthy of the HOF. He was a good player on a good team and he was a Yankee most of his career. Everyone knows how the media loves the Yankees.
Larkin is more deserving of the HOF than Williams.

Bernie Williams was a good player. He was never a great player- over the short haul or over the long haul. To add him to the HoF would be a travesty. Of course, he was a Yankee and that is worth a lot of bonus votes and he does play the guitar well.

[Stardust]

This is an excellent post and I can agree with everything you have here. But I do think that this is still based on popularity. This year is a perfect example. Lee Smith and John Franco. Lee Smith has 50 more saves than Franco, but he did it in considerbly more years. Smith was a feel good story for many years, where Franco played for the Mets, or the New York Stepchild. Franco is the all-time saves leader for a lefthander, yet the more popular Smith got close to 60% and Franco got just over 20%. I'm not saying either deserve to be in, but there is NO WAY that the disparity in voting should have been as big as what it was.

In the case of Bernie Williams, his stats were not HOF stats, but he was what the voters want now, clean and nice guys. (Though I'd argue that the spitting Alomar is not a nice guy). Bernie by most every media person was conisdered the guy who was the glue and the true leader of the Yankees during there run in the late 90's. He not only played for the Yankees, but most Yankee fans adore Bernie as much as they do Jeter. That will mean a lot to voters.

I'm with you, it should be about who was the best during their days of playing. But if that was the case, why did Jim Rice never get voted in? It took the old-timers to finally give that guy his justice.

I would agree that Larkin needs to get the votes next year or he could wait for a while. As I stated in another thread, I hope the voters get a lot more selective in the future. The Hall should be for only the absolute best.

Using that standard, I don't think any of those becoming eligible in 2012 should ever be elected. That opens the door for Larkin.

For those becoming eligible in 2013, Piazza and Biggio stand out. Bonds and Clemens also stand out but the voters may exclude them because of drugs which is fine with me. I personally like Schilling but he isn't in the same class with the pitchers (other than Martinez) who should and will be elected in 2014 and 2015.

As for 2014, Glavine and Maddux (one of the six best pitchers of all time) are obvious Hall of Famers. Only Kent of the rest deserves serious consideration. He will get in sooner or later with my preference being much later.

Smoltz, Johnson, and Martinez (least of the three) should be elected in 2015.

Griffey is obvious in 2016.

I am a traditionalist. I think first year election should be limited to only the exceptional. Remember, the great Denton True Young wasn't elected until his second year on the ballot. And, surely we all can agree that the greatest record in all of sport is his career 511 wins.

[MVP2]

Uhh...Yes without a doubt.

[LWC]

Probably.

Reds fans: If you could only vote for one Red to be in the Hall-of-Fame, who do you choose? Conception (sp?) or Larkin?

[Westside]

Probably.

Reds fans: If you could only vote for one Red to be in the Hall-of-Fame, who do you choose? Conception (sp?) or Larkin?

That's a tough one. I'll say Concepcion.

[Jarons]

Larkin

[Mr. Pike Central]

Larkin should definately get inducted next year.

[alfus21]

I'm too distracted by Stardust saying that Julio Franco is going to still votes from Larkin. Geez...:igiveup:

[Stardust]

I'm too distracted by Stardust saying that Julio Franco is going to still votes from Larkin. Geez...:igiveup:

What I said was you have guys that will be put on voters ballots that will pull from others. Julio is one of those players who was loved by the media, he had over 2,500 hits. He will get votes from the writers.

[SaveUK]

Larkin should be in no doubt about it.