[Advicegiver74]

Go (Whitley County) Colonels.

Yeah, OK………. 

colonels will never win district again…. you got that 08 team to brag about though….

---

Boyle without a doubt would have won 5A and 6A this year but they where in the same bracket as Boyle and only one was able to advance past the region.

hm

What wrong with supporting a team that just a ugly response to someone be better than that

[Cowboy42]

I heard the Estepp kid from Corbin is going to Boyle County next year.

I guess nothing is impossible, but I think Estep's dad is on the Corbin baseball coaching staff.

Is or WAS

[Old School Hound]

Corbin without a doubt would have won 5A and 6A this year but they where in the same bracket as Boyle and only one was able to advance past the region.

Doubt that.. Bowling Green much better than Corbin. I’d like to see Greer put Bowling Green and Southwestern and Cooper and Trinity on regular season schedule next year so all the quess work will be removed. Schedule tougher competition to prepare for playoffs. Corbin wants a watered down schedule in hopes of keeping all four playoff games at home so it’ll give them 50/50 chance at winning state in final. Good strategy but it don’t work because Boyle will always be waiting in game 3,4,5. So play someone throughout season away from Campbell field..Congrats Boyle County..btw, I didn’t see Corbin in final four so they are somewhere between 5 and 8 and I’ll let you guys decide where while you’re at it..

Did you walk end on the Greer end getting his Twinkie Stinky in Me Lady Cowboy? Your hatred of ol'Tom has you delusional. Corbin was the best team I saw this season. They would have won a neutral field game with Boyle.

[Hatz]

Corbin without a doubt would have won 5A and 6A this year but they where in the same bracket as Boyle and only one was able to advance past the region.

Doubt that.. Bowling Green much better than Corbin. I’d like to see Greer put Bowling Green and Southwestern and Cooper and Trinity on regular season schedule next year so all the quess work will be removed. Schedule tougher competition to prepare for playoffs. Corbin wants a watered down schedule in hopes of keeping all four playoff games at home so it’ll give them 50/50 chance at winning state in final. Good strategy but it don’t work because Boyle will always be waiting in game 3,4,5. So play someone throughout season away from Campbell field..Congrats Boyle County..btw, I didn’t see Corbin in final four so they are somewhere between 5 and 8 and I’ll let you guys decide where while you’re at it..

Did you walk end on the Greer end getting his Twinkie Stinky in Me Lady Cowboy? Your hatred of ol'Tom has you delusional. Corbin was the best team I saw this season. They would have won a neutral field game with Boyle.

What was it at Boyle that gave the Rebels some mysterious edge other than their players?

[Old School Hound]

Corbin without a doubt would have won 5A and 6A this year but they where in the same bracket as Boyle and only one was able to advance past the region.

Doubt that.. Bowling Green much better than Corbin. I’d like to see Greer put Bowling Green and Southwestern and Cooper and Trinity on regular season schedule next year so all the quess work will be removed. Schedule tougher competition to prepare for playoffs. Corbin wants a watered down schedule in hopes of keeping all four playoff games at home so it’ll give them 50/50 chance at winning state in final. Good strategy but it don’t work because Boyle will always be waiting in game 3,4,5. So play someone throughout season away from Campbell field..Congrats Boyle County..btw, I didn’t see Corbin in final four so they are somewhere between 5 and 8 and I’ll let you guys decide where while you’re at it..

Did you walk end on the Greer end getting his Twinkie Stinky in Me Lady Cowboy? Your hatred of ol'Tom has you delusional. Corbin was the best team I saw this season. They would have won a neutral field game with Boyle.

What was it at Boyle that gave the Rebels some mysterious edge other than their players?

Two players helped beat Corbin. One was a Boyle player , the other was a Corbin player.  I doubt the hurdling nonsense gets called at C. Field.  Corbin wins by two scores at home. Wins by at least a score on a neutral field. Even most computer models add a touchdown for HF advantage.

[Cowboy42]

Corbin without a doubt would have won 5A and 6A this year but they where in the same bracket as Boyle and only one was able to advance past the region.

Doubt that.. Bowling Green much better than Corbin. I’d like to see Greer put Bowling Green and Southwestern and Cooper and Trinity on regular season schedule next year so all the quess work will be removed. Schedule tougher competition to prepare for playoffs. Corbin wants a watered down schedule in hopes of keeping all four playoff games at home so it’ll give them 50/50 chance at winning state in final. Good strategy but it don’t work because Boyle will always be waiting in game 3,4,5. So play someone throughout season away from Campbell field..Congrats Boyle County..btw, I didn’t see Corbin in final four so they are somewhere between 5 and 8 and I’ll let you guys decide where while you’re at it..

Did you walk end on the Greer end getting his Twinkie Stinky in Me Lady Cowboy? Your hatred of ol'Tom has you delusional. Corbin was the best team I saw this season. They would have won a neutral field game with Boyle.

Haha.. someone call the fact checkers in. Corbin made elite 8 not final four nor final two. Just curious where they landed between five and eight. As for delusional I’m not the one putting the cart before the horse every year. Let’s keep it real and just put together a much tougher schedule for regular season and let the RPI do its thing and just maybe Boyle might have to come to Corbin in round three next season. Let me say this with complete honesty, no one wanted Corbin to win anymore than me but I’m like you and everyone else who watches year in and year out and it gets old seeing same ole stuff every year. Won’t schedule good competition and won’t play his best players both ways. Recipe for defeat every year and we’ve all had a front row seat past four years since Haddix left. Btw no one on here dislikes ole Tom anymore than you and it’s proven by your constant post about him and cox and Jewell and Tremaine. Now that football is over I’m thinking of writing a book and believe me you’ve provided enough information to make it a best seller..

[Shogun]

Corbin without a doubt would have won 5A and 6A this year but they where in the same bracket as Boyle and only one was able to advance past the region.

Doubt that.. Bowling Green much better than Corbin. I’d like to see Greer put Bowling Green and Southwestern and Cooper and Trinity on regular season schedule next year so all the quess work will be removed. Schedule tougher competition to prepare for playoffs. Corbin wants a watered down schedule in hopes of keeping all four playoff games at home so it’ll give them 50/50 chance at winning state in final. Good strategy but it don’t work because Boyle will always be waiting in game 3,4,5. So play someone throughout season away from Campbell field..Congrats Boyle County..btw, I didn’t see Corbin in final four so they are somewhere between 5 and 8 and I’ll let you guys decide where while you’re at it..

Did you walk end on the Greer end getting his Twinkie Stinky in Me Lady Cowboy? Your hatred of ol'Tom has you delusional. Corbin was the best team I saw this season. They would have won a neutral field game with Boyle.

What was it at Boyle that gave the Rebels some mysterious edge other than their players?

Two players helped beat Corbin. One was a Boyle player , the other was a Corbin player.  I doubt the hurdling nonsense gets called at C. Field.  Corbin wins by two scores at home. Wins by at least a score on a neutral field. Even most computer models add a touchdown for HF advantage.

Finally we say the quiet part out loud, that being where Corbin’s home field advantage truly comes from.

[Old School Hound]

Doubt that.. Bowling Green much better than Corbin. I’d like to see Greer put Bowling Green and Southwestern and Cooper and Trinity on regular season schedule next year so all the quess work will be removed. Schedule tougher competition to prepare for playoffs. Corbin wants a watered down schedule in hopes of keeping all four playoff games at home so it’ll give them 50/50 chance at winning state in final. Good strategy but it don’t work because Boyle will always be waiting in game 3,4,5. So play someone throughout season away from Campbell field..Congrats Boyle County..btw, I didn’t see Corbin in final four so they are somewhere between 5 and 8 and I’ll let you guys decide where while you’re at it..

Did you walk end on the Greer end getting his Twinkie Stinky in Me Lady Cowboy? Your hatred of ol'Tom has you delusional. Corbin was the best team I saw this season. They would have won a neutral field game with Boyle.

What was it at Boyle that gave the Rebels some mysterious edge other than their players?

Two players helped beat Corbin. One was a Boyle player , the other was a Corbin player.  I doubt the hurdling nonsense gets called at C. Field.  Corbin wins by two scores at home. Wins by at least a score on a neutral field. Even most computer models add a touchdown for HF advantage.

Finally we say the quiet part out loud, that being where Corbin’s home field advantage truly comes from.

And they do get called(against Corbin) at Boyle !!!  That's how home cooking works! It's one factor as to why most computer algorithms add points for home field.

[Shogun]

Did you walk end on the Greer end getting his Twinkie Stinky in Me Lady Cowboy? Your hatred of ol'Tom has you delusional. Corbin was the best team I saw this season. They would have won a neutral field game with Boyle.

What was it at Boyle that gave the Rebels some mysterious edge other than their players?

Two players helped beat Corbin. One was a Boyle player , the other was a Corbin player.  I doubt the hurdling nonsense gets called at C. Field.  Corbin wins by two scores at home. Wins by at least a score on a neutral field. Even most computer models add a touchdown for HF advantage.

Finally we say the quiet part out loud, that being where Corbin’s home field advantage truly comes from.

And they do get called(against Corbin) at Boyle !!!  That's how home cooking works! It's one factor as to why most computer algorithms add points for home field.

So the rules are enforced at Boyle County, but not at Corbin. I can understand how that would make things tougher for the Hounds on the road.

[Old School Hound]

What was it at Boyle that gave the Rebels some mysterious edge other than their players?

Two players helped beat Corbin. One was a Boyle player , the other was a Corbin player.  I doubt the hurdling nonsense gets called at C. Field.  Corbin wins by two scores at home. Wins by at least a score on a neutral field. Even most computer models add a touchdown for HF advantage.

Finally we say the quiet part out loud, that being where Corbin’s home field advantage truly comes from.

And they do get called(against Corbin) at Boyle !!!  That's how home cooking works! It's one factor as to why most computer algorithms add points for home field.

So the rules are enforced at Boyle County, but not at Corbin. I can understand how that would make things tougher for the Hounds on the road.

Home teams get the edge in calls. It's not just Campbell Field.

[Hatz]

Corbin without a doubt would have won 5A and 6A this year but they where in the same bracket as Boyle and only one was able to advance past the region.

Doubt that.. Bowling Green much better than Corbin. I’d like to see Greer put Bowling Green and Southwestern and Cooper and Trinity on regular season schedule next year so all the quess work will be removed. Schedule tougher competition to prepare for playoffs. Corbin wants a watered down schedule in hopes of keeping all four playoff games at home so it’ll give them 50/50 chance at winning state in final. Good strategy but it don’t work because Boyle will always be waiting in game 3,4,5. So play someone throughout season away from Campbell field..Congrats Boyle County..btw, I didn’t see Corbin in final four so they are somewhere between 5 and 8 and I’ll let you guys decide where while you’re at it..

Did you walk end on the Greer end getting his Twinkie Stinky in Me Lady Cowboy? Your hatred of ol'Tom has you delusional. Corbin was the best team I saw this season. They would have won a neutral field game with Boyle.

What was it at Boyle that gave the Rebels some mysterious edge other than their players?

Two players helped beat Corbin. One was a Boyle player , the other was a Corbin player.  I doubt the hurdling nonsense gets called at C. Field.  Corbin wins by two scores at home. Wins by at least a score on a neutral field. Even most computer models add a touchdown for HF advantage.

The hurdling nonsense, as you call it, is an illegal move in high school. Nothing you say changes that. If it wasn’t called elsewhere that is on those officials and the Corbin coaches who did not teach the rule. Do you somehow think only Corbin players are athletic enough to hurdle?  Don’t think Quissenberry or Dawson or Geo Brown couldn’t?  Of course they could. But they’ve been taught not to. It’s called discipline. 

There is no measurable, quantitative fact that you can point to that supports Corbin as obviously superior. The game is played on the field. Corbin played a great game but was a TD short. I will say you are consistently argumentative.

[fansville]

Two players helped beat Corbin. One was a Boyle player , the other was a Corbin player.  I doubt the hurdling nonsense gets called at C. Field.  Corbin wins by two scores at home. Wins by at least a score on a neutral field. Even most computer models add a touchdown for HF advantage.

Finally we say the quiet part out loud, that being where Corbin’s home field advantage truly comes from.

And they do get called(against Corbin) at Boyle !!!  That's how home cooking works! It's one factor as to why most computer algorithms add points for home field.

So the rules are enforced at Boyle County, but not at Corbin. I can understand how that would make things tougher for the Hounds on the road.

Home teams get the edge in calls. It's not just Campbell Field.

Good gosh man give it up, every topic on here doesn’t have to include some BS about how Corbin was the best or their coaches suck or that kids hurdling lost it. Corbin got beat fair and square. The hurdle penalties were 100% correct as called. The hurdles hurt bad but the bad/missed passes for easy TDs were costly, the blocked punt was killer, the list goes on and on, Boyle just made less mistakes and got the win.

Also, if the hurdles weren’t called at a mythical game that “should” have been at Corbin if not for the evil RPI then that is called cheating, not home field advantage. Just leave it alone. Congrats Boyle County this yea, we will be back next year to fight again is the right answer.

[Shogun]

Two players helped beat Corbin. One was a Boyle player , the other was a Corbin player.  I doubt the hurdling nonsense gets called at C. Field.  Corbin wins by two scores at home. Wins by at least a score on a neutral field. Even most computer models add a touchdown for HF advantage.

Finally we say the quiet part out loud, that being where Corbin’s home field advantage truly comes from.

And they do get called(against Corbin) at Boyle !!!  That's how home cooking works! It's one factor as to why most computer algorithms add points for home field.

So the rules are enforced at Boyle County, but not at Corbin. I can understand how that would make things tougher for the Hounds on the road.

Home teams get the edge in calls. It's not just Campbell Field.

Sure but you’re suggesting that Boyle had the edge at home because the right call was made, while Corbin would have had the edge at Campbell because the officials wouldn’t have made the right call, which doesn’t support your argument that Corbin was the better team.

[CC117]

Alcoa treatment. Wink wink

[Holy Bull]

What was it at Boyle that gave the Rebels some mysterious edge other than their players?

Two players helped beat Corbin. One was a Boyle player , the other was a Corbin player.  I doubt the hurdling nonsense gets called at C. Field.  Corbin wins by two scores at home. Wins by at least a score on a neutral field. Even most computer models add a touchdown for HF advantage.

Finally we say the quiet part out loud, that being where Corbin’s home field advantage truly comes from.

And they do get called(against Corbin) at Boyle !!!  That's how home cooking works! It's one factor as to why most computer algorithms add points for home field.

So the rules are enforced at Boyle County, but not at Corbin. I can understand how that would make things tougher for the Hounds on the road.

That's what I said after the game, Corbin likely has been doing it all year and not getting it called. It is a 15 yard penalty and should be called regardless where you play. That is why they won't go outside home field for tough games. Home cooking there apparently is at another level.

[UK1]

Who will be Boyle’s QB next year? Murphy was back up this year and will be a Jr. Turner 3rd string and will be a sophomore. Does Boyle go to the portal to get a better QB? If Boyle goes to portal do these two guys stay and never play QB in high school? There last two QB’s have come from the portal.

[CarzyRock]

Corbin without a doubt would have won 5A and 6A this year

Lol, sure buddy.

[Old School Hound]

Doubt that.. Bowling Green much better than Corbin. I’d like to see Greer put Bowling Green and Southwestern and Cooper and Trinity on regular season schedule next year so all the quess work will be removed. Schedule tougher competition to prepare for playoffs. Corbin wants a watered down schedule in hopes of keeping all four playoff games at home so it’ll give them 50/50 chance at winning state in final. Good strategy but it don’t work because Boyle will always be waiting in game 3,4,5. So play someone throughout season away from Campbell field..Congrats Boyle County..btw, I didn’t see Corbin in final four so they are somewhere between 5 and 8 and I’ll let you guys decide where while you’re at it..

Did you walk end on the Greer end getting his Twinkie Stinky in Me Lady Cowboy? Your hatred of ol'Tom has you delusional. Corbin was the best team I saw this season. They would have won a neutral field game with Boyle.

What was it at Boyle that gave the Rebels some mysterious edge other than their players?

Two players helped beat Corbin. One was a Boyle player , the other was a Corbin player.  I doubt the hurdling nonsense gets called at C. Field.  Corbin wins by two scores at home. Wins by at least a score on a neutral field. Even most computer models add a touchdown for HF advantage.

The hurdling nonsense, as you call it, is an illegal move in high school. Nothing you say changes that. If it wasn’t called elsewhere that is on those officials and the Corbin coaches who did not teach the rule. Do you somehow think only Corbin players are athletic enough to hurdle?  Don’t think Quissenberry or Dawson or Geo Brown couldn’t?  Of course they could. But they’ve been taught not to. It’s called discipline. 

There is no measurable, quantitative fact that you can point to that supports Corbin as obviously superior. The game is played on the field. Corbin played a great game but was a TD short. I will say you are consistently argumentative.

My eyeball test never fails. Corbin was the better team.  Boyle finished with more points and had a couple of long runs and a punt block. They finished ahead on the scoreboard, like Appy St.  did against Michigan, like Centre did against Harvard. You , nor any Boyle fan, would be overly confident if you had to play that Hound team again, especially at Campbell Field. Boyle absolutely deserves their title. They are a fine team. They scored more points. Doesn't mean they would outscore my Hounds if the two met again. I'd wager a month's salary on my Hounds in a rematch. There wouldn't be a Boyle fan that would wager as much as a C-note. I'd pay a thousand bucks for a ticket(proceeds to charity) to see a rematch at EKU in Richmond.

[Hatz]

Did you walk end on the Greer end getting his Twinkie Stinky in Me Lady Cowboy? Your hatred of ol'Tom has you delusional. Corbin was the best team I saw this season. They would have won a neutral field game with Boyle.

What was it at Boyle that gave the Rebels some mysterious edge other than their players?

Two players helped beat Corbin. One was a Boyle player , the other was a Corbin player.  I doubt the hurdling nonsense gets called at C. Field.  Corbin wins by two scores at home. Wins by at least a score on a neutral field. Even most computer models add a touchdown for HF advantage.

The hurdling nonsense, as you call it, is an illegal move in high school. Nothing you say changes that. If it wasn’t called elsewhere that is on those officials and the Corbin coaches who did not teach the rule. Do you somehow think only Corbin players are athletic enough to hurdle?  Don’t think Quissenberry or Dawson or Geo Brown couldn’t?  Of course they could. But they’ve been taught not to. It’s called discipline. 

There is no measurable, quantitative fact that you can point to that supports Corbin as obviously superior. The game is played on the field. Corbin played a great game but was a TD short. I will say you are consistently argumentative.

My eyeball test never fails. Corbin was the better team.  Boyle finished with more points and had a couple of long runs and a punt block. They finished ahead on the scoreboard, like Appy St.  did against Michigan, like Centre did against Harvard. You , nor any Boyle fan, would be overly confident if you had to play that Hound team again, especially at Campbell Field. Boyle absolutely deserves their title. They are a fine team. They scored more points. Doesn't mean they would outscore my Hounds if the two met again. I'd wager a month's salary on my Hounds in a rematch. There wouldn't be a Boyle fan that would wager as much as a C-note. I'd pay a thousand bucks for a ticket(proceeds to charity) to see a rematch at EKU in Richmond.

Pretty easy to bet big money on a game that will not take place.

[pjdoug]

Go (Whitley County) Colonels.

Yeah, OK………. 

colonels will never win district again…. you got that 08 team to brag about though….

---

Boyle without a doubt would have won 5A and 6A this year but they where in the same bracket as Boyle and only one was able to advance past the region.

hm

That has to be true since a dumba$$ said it. I'm glad I let negativity fly on  by these days

[pjdoug]

Championship weekend and the games are still going on, but we have to start a bunch of 2024 threads already. No patience whatsoever.

I started the threads upon completion of the games. You don’t have to read or reply if you don’t enjoy looking forward. Didn’t know there was a time and date we should wait before having some fun speculation.

She is a well known whiner. lol

What would people on here say you were well known for? My guess is it had nothing to do with actual football knowledge.

I'm glad I stopped caring what most people say, whinebag

[Corbin]

Boyle again and it won't be close next year.

[FastScreen435]

According to final KSR rankings, Boyle and Corbin weren't the best two teams in the state. It's actually Boyle and Trinity.

[Old School Hound]

According to final KSR rankings, Boyle and Corbin weren't the best two teams in the state. It's actually Boyle and Trinity.

Since when did you or any other SE Kentuckian agree with what Matt Jones says?  My final rankings is all that matters to me:  1. Corbin  2. Boyle  3. Trinity

[back country]

Who will be Boyle’s QB next year?  Murphy was back up this year and will be a Jr.  Turner 3rd string and will be a sophomore.  Does Boyle go to the portal to get a better QB?  If Boyle goes to portal do these two guys stay and never play QB in high school? There last two QB’s have come from the portal.

Their last two QB's both lived in Boyle County. Dawson lived in the Boyle district when he played at Danville his freshman year. Gillis moved here with his mother in the summer before his Jr. yr. I think Murphy is the next Rebel QB until someone beats him out. He throws it well, tough runner and is hard nosed. You never know until the first game. I trust Coach Haddix to make that right decision. I don't think he reads this junk to make any of his decisions.

[Bull got out!]

Who will be Boyle’s QB next year?  Murphy was back up this year and will be a Jr.  Turner 3rd string and will be a sophomore.  Does Boyle go to the portal to get a better QB?  If Boyle goes to portal do these two guys stay and never play QB in high school? There last two QB’s have come from the portal.

Their last two QB's both lived in Boyle County. Dawson lived in the Boyle district when he played at Danville his freshman year. Gillis moved here with his mother in the summer before his Jr. yr. I think Murphy is the next Rebel QB until someone beats him out. He throws it well, tough runner and is hard nosed. You never know until the first game. I trust Coach Haddix to make that right decision. I don't think he reads this junk to make any of his decisions.

One thing I like is how Haddix in such a short time utilized 2 different QBS to win 4 Titles. No doubt he is one coach that can see talent and make a decision for what is best for the team.

[pjdoug]

Coach Haddix will get his 5th straight title in 2024.........  as new coach of the Corbin Redhounds!!!     


I don't think there was any doubt that Corbin and Boyle were the best two teams in KY in '23.  Boyle certainly deserved their state title. They(I mean Quis') made the big plays two weeks ago when they needed them and Corbin didn't.  I still feel like if the two teams played on a neutral field Corbin would win by a score or two.  Boyle is well deserving of their trophy, though.

Old School bubby he ain’t coming back, Bull Got Out will tell you I told him this a few years ago, the old guard won’t step aside and allow it to happen, even if you could convince him to come…. 

A lot of where Corbin stands next year depends on who’s coaching the team and what talent we’re able to keep, I’ve heard of several kids maybe transferring…The junior class is pretty loaded but I don’t think there is enough talent to compete with and beat Boyle or even make it the game that it’s been the last couple years, hope I’m wrong and you never know what kids may move in during the off season….

Merry CHRISTmas to all of BGR if I don’t get a chance to wish it again before it gets here…Hopefully everyone on here is blessed to have one of the best ever…

Merry CHRISTmas to you and your family.

[pjdoug]

I heard the Estepp kid from Corbin is going to Boyle County next year.

I guess nothing is impossible, but I think Estep's dad is on the Corbin baseball coaching staff.

He probably should go to Goldbug then

[16 special]

Who will be Boyle’s QB next year?  Murphy was back up this year and will be a Jr.  Turner 3rd string and will be a sophomore.  Does Boyle go to the portal to get a better QB?  If Boyle goes to portal do these two guys stay and never play QB in high school? There last two QB’s have come from the portal.

Their last two QB's both lived in Boyle County. Dawson lived in the Boyle district when he played at Danville his freshman year. Gillis moved here with his mother in the summer before his Jr. yr. I think Murphy is the next Rebel QB until someone beats him out. He throws it well, tough runner and is hard nosed. You never know until the first game. I trust Coach Haddix to make that right decision. I don't think he reads this junk to make any of his decisions.

I’ll bet Boyle QB it’s a transfer from Woodford county.

[Advicegiver74]

Did you walk end on the Greer end getting his Twinkie Stinky in Me Lady Cowboy? Your hatred of ol'Tom has you delusional. Corbin was the best team I saw this season. They would have won a neutral field game with Boyle.

What was it at Boyle that gave the Rebels some mysterious edge other than their players?

Two players helped beat Corbin. One was a Boyle player , the other was a Corbin player.  I doubt the hurdling nonsense gets called at C. Field.  Corbin wins by two scores at home. Wins by at least a score on a neutral field. Even most computer models add a touchdown for HF advantage.

Finally we say the quiet part out loud, that being where Corbin’s home field advantage truly comes from.

And they do get called(against Corbin) at Boyle !!!  That's how home cooking works! It's one factor as to why most computer algorithms add points for home field.

Yeah if someone breaks a rule it a flag just not called at Corbin proves the point Corbin doesn't have what it takes to win the big one it seems. Then you go hypothetically to try and say your team can have true success but we both know they just can't seem to get over the hump and I doubt next year they will either