[ROTC]

I’m curious what are the top five things that have been done to build culture and take programs to the next level; aside from recruiting or just riding one extra loaded class before slumping back to mediocre?

[Gridiron_Raid]

I’m curious what are the top five things that have been done to build culture and take programs to the next level; aside from recruiting or just riding one extra loaded class before slumping back to mediocre?

weight room/ off-season mentality
youth development in practice and games
respect

[Hogsnot]

I’m curious what are the top five things that have been done to build culture and take programs to the next level; aside from recruiting or just riding one extra loaded class before slumping back to mediocre?

How are we defining “next level”? Is it competing for state championships? Becoming a regional power? Or just getting to a point of consistently winning? 

Does anybody go from being perennial bottom dweller to a regular state level contender?

[The Red Eminence]

Administrative support is pivotal. Too many programs end through cannibalization from their district.

[ROTC]

I know what KILLS football. When your Supt. was a trombone player….forget about it( Goodfellas accent)!

I’m talking about going from garbage to competitive to at least REGIONAL FINALS LEVEL RESPECTABLE….

[Orange Blaze]

I’m curious what are the top five things that have been done to build culture and take programs to the next level; aside from recruiting or just riding one extra loaded class before slumping back to mediocre?

1. Have a coach who is a leader first & coach second.  What I mean by this is the coach must be someone who commands respect and knows how to get the most out of people.  If you can do that the X’s and O’s will take care of themselves.

2. Win the parents and the community.   This comes back to point #1.

3.  Have a clean environment and demand organization. This means make keep your weight room organized and don’t allow a trashy locker room.  This might sound like it isn’t important but it may be the most important part of building a strong culture because it is a building block for establishing high standards and expectations.

4.  Coaches need to take continuing coaching education seriously.  This means attending seminars in the offseason and always being a student of the game and not thinking you know it all.

5.  Keep it fun.  A lot of times coaches forget that this is supposed to be a fun game.  If kids don’t enjoy their time there then they won’t buy in and you won’t get their best.  This doesn’t mean trying to be best friends with your players but find ways not to always be serious and create a place that kids want to bring their friends to join.

[RAMDAD50]

I’m curious what are the top five things that have been done to build culture and take programs to the next level; aside from recruiting or just riding one extra loaded class before slumping back to mediocre?

You’re speaking of two different things in this one statement. You ask about culture and taking programs to the next level but you’re gauging success by wins. A lot of people don’t realize you can have a great successful program without winning 8,9 or 10 ball games a year. If a school has a great man in charge of their program and they are turning out great young men year after year then that’s a success, that’s culture and that’s the number one thing that should be achieved in a high school football program. We often lose sight of what football means….it’s not just about wins and losses

[Diablo]

So many things that go into this. Not sure where to start.

[ROTC]

I’m curious what are the top five things that have been done to build culture and take programs to the next level; aside from recruiting or just riding one extra loaded class before slumping back to mediocre?

You’re speaking of two different things in this one statement. You ask about culture and taking programs to the next level but you’re gauging success by wins. A lot of people don’t realize you can have a great successful program without winning 8,9 or 10 ball games a year. If a school has a great man in charge of their program and they are turning out great young men year after year then that’s a success, that’s culture and that’s the number one thing that should be achieved in a high school football program. We often lose sight of what football means….it’s not just about wins and losses

I agree with everything you’re saying.  However, most communities feel like building character is the job of the “townie church youth group”; unless, it also means perennial 8+ win seasons.  Then, it is an important part of “our” football program!??????‍♂️

[Orange Blaze]

I know what KILLS football.  When your Supt. was a trombone player….forget about it( Goodfellas accent)!

I’m talking about going from garbage to competitive to at least REGIONAL FINALS LEVEL RESPECTABLE….

What is going on now at Betsy Layne best fits that criteria.  If someone who is close to that program is reading this thread they would be the best real life source to answer your question.

[KnoxvillesFinest]

Find someone who can recruit

Find someone that can bring in transfers

Find some boosters that has some $$$ for said transfers

Have a basic understanding of football

That’s it. That’s all you need. You may not win it all because somebody is doing those four things better than you, but you’ll usually always be in the conversation.

[ROTC]

Boooooo! F-

Read the original thread post.

---

Boooooo!  F-

Read the original thread post.

I already know the benefits of “no rules” mentality.  Look at Class 4A.

I mean doing it honestly; within the parameters of “the rules”.

[KnoxvillesFinest]

Boooooo!  F-

Read the original thread post.

---

Boooooo!  F-

Read the original thread post.

I already know the benefits of “no rules” mentality.  Look at Class 4A.

I mean doing it honestly; within the parameters of “the rules”.

Hard to follow the rules here when teams don’t follow the rules out there. Just sayin

[ROTC]

I love you Knoxville’s Finest…in a bro-code kinda way!!!

But I’m curious how to do it; the honest way!!

[jetpilot]

I’m curious what are the top five things that have been done to build culture and take programs to the next level; aside from recruiting or just riding one extra loaded class before slumping back to mediocre?

You’re speaking of two different things in this one statement. You ask about culture and taking programs to the next level but you’re gauging success by wins. A lot of people don’t realize you can have a great successful program without winning 8,9 or 10 ball games a year. If a school has a great man in charge of their program and they are turning out great young men year after year then that’s a success, that’s culture and that’s the number one thing that should be achieved in a high school football program. We often lose sight of what football means….it’s not just about wins and losses

And most people don't realize you can and should do both if you really want to be great.

[ROTC]

I’m just curious about specific actions taken to build. I know what SHOULD be happening in HS football. HOW?

Okay- I’ll give you guys a REAL-hypothetical situation(pardon the oxymoron)!!

In 1967, Coalfield High won a third state title and had 20 or so boys who would knock your D straight! Fast forward to 2023, same school is struggling to dress 20 guys, population has dwindled, tax base is dropping every year, and facilities have changed very little since that last nine win team in 1981.

OKAY- what must happen here to re-build football?

[Orange Blaze]

I’m just curious about specific actions taken to build.  I know what SHOULD be happening in HS football.  HOW?

Okay- I’ll give you guys a REAL-hypothetical situation(pardon the oxymoron)!!

In 1967, Coalfield High won a third state title and had 20 or so boys who would knock your D straight!  Fast forward to 2023, same school is struggling to dress 20 guys, population has dwindled, tax base is dropping every year, and facilities have changed very little since that last nine win team in 1981.

OKAY- what must happen here to re-build football?

You answered your own question.  The population decline and lack of resources make it very difficult to rebuild simply because there really aren’t any people or money available to rebuild it. In the scenario you described I can’t see a rebuild being possible because of the poor economic conditions which in turn led to the talent drying up.

[jetpilot]

If everyone moved out of Coalfield their 1967 team isn't walking through that door ever again.
Not to pick on Raceland by putting this up, Coach McNamee of Pikeville sums it up here - just watch last 30-40 seconds

[Hound05]

I’m curious what are the top five things that have been done to build culture and take programs to the next level; aside from recruiting or just riding one extra loaded class before slumping back to mediocre?

I don’t know about 5 things. But a coach or -I guess we can lump them all together and say- administrators, have to be on the same page. Then need to provide a jolt to the program the way Corbin did originally with Justin haddix. The energy is key! When you have kids looking up to players as role models that in turn gives better numbers and more athletes. 2nd- build a strong youth program that high school, middle school are involved with. Several counties have great feeder programs, but that’s it. Each team is running their own thing just trying to be the champs. Might be good for daddy to brag about to his friends, but doesn’t help the kids that much. Show them the base offense and defense and grow on it each year. The next is have a goal for everyone as a whole, players, coaches, etc. And it’s not just that simple. Most high end programs “want” to win a title. But a few have their own ego and reasons. I can tell you right now with 100% confidence, when haddix was here, it was to win a ring. Honestly I can’t say that now. I want to believe lol Dudley wants to, but I just don’t see the enthusiasm as I did with the previous. I think it’s more about wins, paycheck, and ego. You don’t schedule hazard (no offense) this year in hopes of winning a title. You don’t say, “well I wanted to win this game to, now let’s get off the field and get home” in the state championship. But that’s MHO. Last us adapt to your strengths. If you got a QB a great line and great WRs suited for a spread. Don’t tweak it to 70 run or screens because “that’s what’s comfortable”. You’d think it’s obvious to play to your strengths. But I guess some missed that class

[HighViz]

Is it considered recruiting when your team is constantly winning 12+ wins per season and kids want to come play and be a part of something? Now if you pay the players, pay for their homes and cars I’m saying yes. But. While this happens it’s less than people want to realize.

*Structure/Discipline

*Administration that takes pride in Football and wants to win.

*Coaching fundamentals in grades 9 and below. Winning in middle school and grade school isn’t nearly as important as learning the game. How to tackle, block, gaps, holes. Fine tuning skills are what high school coaches need to work on. Not teaching basics.

* Holding players accountable as coaches. Letting kids go that don’t want to improve or better the team.

* Running the program without outside influence from parents, administrators, politics. Playing your best players. In control! Including hiring staff!

It’s safe to say, Haywood, Hilton, Smith, Holcomb, Mac, Haddix, Scroggins and a few more are legend status in recent 10-15+years. They consistently fielded teams that demanded respect. I think they did everything listed above. Maybe I am wrong.

[KnoxvillesFinest]

I love you Knoxville’s Finest…in a bro-code kinda way!!!

But I’m curious how to do it; the honest way!!

in the honest world where kids play where they should be playing…

find a coach who can recruit the hallways. I don’t care if it’s a senior that’s never played, get him out there. Chances are he won’t have the strength or be in shape enough but sometimes natural talent takes over, especially for smaller schools. Get as many kids possible in that locker room.

second, feeder programs. You cannot be a successful program year after year if your players haven’t been playing together before they get to high school. Even middle school usually isn’t enough. Get them on the same page. Get your basic playbooks into the hands of those elementary coaches. By 5th grade kids should know how to run trap plays, etc. 

third, infrastructure. You have to have the resources. Those weight rooms and conditioning programs have to be too notch. Get someone hired that knows nutrition. Who knows actual speed and strength training. Someone who has a degree in it. Not your oline coach who never went to college and diet plan consists of a nightly six pack. Set the example and be the example.

and last… And this is the most important. don’t be a dick. Kids today aren’t the same as kids 20 years ago. The world has changed. I’m not going to argue if it’s for better or worse but all I do know is these kids do not have the same type or interest and ways of thinking we did 25 years ago. Water breaks are no longer something that’s earned. That old school mentality will win you games. But you’ll find yourself falling behind the times. These kids want to see themselves on highlight tapes. Their parent want them to go to a school where their coach will get them recruited and scholarships. All of this is something that wasn’t really well thought out for a lot of coaches back then. It’s a must now to build a culture where kids want to play for you.

[#GoCougs]

I think one thing that might not be a popular answer, but I think it is essential to turning a program around is scheduling (and patience).

If you're losing and losing and losing, you're going to have trouble getting kids to come out & play. But, if you're putting together consecutive winning seasons year-after-year, you're going to get more and more kids out. So, when you're down, you have to do you're best to schedule games you can win. Even if that means you win 6 or 7 meaningless games against bad competition and lose a first round playoff game. I realize most don't see that as success, but when you've seen multiple 0 win seasons, a 6-5 season with a first round playoff loss is a great season. You put a few of those kinds of seasons together and the attitude of the community changes a bit toward the football program. You get more talent out to play and then you start to be more competitive in your district. Then you can start building a regular season schedule that is a bit more challenging. Now, I'm not a coach, I've never put a schedule together, so I don't know how difficult that is or isn't, but from the stands it seems pretty relevant.

[Old School Hound]

Boooooo!  F-

Read the original thread post.

---

Boooooo!  F-

Read the original thread post.

I already know the benefits of “no rules” mentality.  Look at Class 4A.

I mean doing it honestly; within the parameters of “the rules”.

Hard to follow the rules here when teams don’t follow the rules out there. Just sayin

Are you implying my Corbin school doesn't follow the rules?  Wasn't it you that said Dave and Tommy were good guys?

[pjdoug]

Boooooo!  F-

Read the original thread post.

---

Boooooo!  F-

Read the original thread post.

I already know the benefits of “no rules” mentality.  Look at Class 4A.

I mean doing it honestly; within the parameters of “the rules”.

Do you really believe schools that compete for state every year are honest?

[pjdoug]

I’m just curious about specific actions taken to build.  I know what SHOULD be happening in HS football.  HOW?

Okay- I’ll give you guys a REAL-hypothetical situation(pardon the oxymoron)!!

In 1967, Coalfield High won a third state title and had 20 or so boys who would knock your D straight!  Fast forward to 2023, same school is struggling to dress 20 guys, population has dwindled, tax base is dropping every year, and facilities have changed very little since that last nine win team in 1981.

OKAY- what must happen here to re-build football?

is that Coalfield Tennessee?

[pjdoug]

I’m just curious about specific actions taken to build.  I know what SHOULD be happening in HS football.  HOW?

Okay- I’ll give you guys a REAL-hypothetical situation(pardon the oxymoron)!!

In 1967, Coalfield High won a third state title and had 20 or so boys who would knock your D straight!  Fast forward to 2023, same school is struggling to dress 20 guys, population has dwindled, tax base is dropping every year, and facilities have changed very little since that last nine win team in 1981.

OKAY- what must happen here to re-build football?

You answered your own question.  The population decline and lack of resources make it very difficult to rebuild simply because there really aren’t any people or money available to rebuild it. In the scenario you described I can’t see a rebuild being possible because of the poor economic conditions which in turn led to the talent drying up.

Coalfield and Raceland are probably similar?

[ROTC]

Boooooo!  F-

Read the original thread post.

---

Boooooo!  F-

Read the original thread post.

I already know the benefits of “no rules” mentality.  Look at Class 4A.

I mean doing it honestly; within the parameters of “the rules”.

Do you really believe schools that compete for state every year are honest?

Duh, no- I know they are not.  Being competitive may not mean actually being in the finals.  You know only six teams end their season with a W.

[Orange Blaze]

I’m just curious about specific actions taken to build.  I know what SHOULD be happening in HS football.  HOW?

Okay- I’ll give you guys a REAL-hypothetical situation(pardon the oxymoron)!!

In 1967, Coalfield High won a third state title and had 20 or so boys who would knock your D straight!  Fast forward to 2023, same school is struggling to dress 20 guys, population has dwindled, tax base is dropping every year, and facilities have changed very little since that last nine win team in 1981.

OKAY- what must happen here to re-build football?

You answered your own question.  The population decline and lack of resources make it very difficult to rebuild simply because there really aren’t any people or money available to rebuild it. In the scenario you described I can’t see a rebuild being possible because of the poor economic conditions which in turn led to the talent drying up.

Coalfield and Raceland are probably similar?

Raceland is closer to areas with more job opportunities than Coalfield.  The majority of people in this area work in Ashland, Huntington, or in Ohio.  If Raceland wasn’t close to areas like that then they wouldn’t be successful and wouldn’t be able to pull kids from other districts.

[pjdoug]

I love you Knoxville’s Finest…in a bro-code kinda way!!!

But I’m curious how to do it; the honest way!!

in the honest world where kids play where they should be playing…

find a coach who can recruit the hallways. I don’t care if it’s a senior that’s never played, get him out there. Chances are he won’t have the strength or be in shape enough but sometimes natural talent takes over, especially for smaller schools. Get as many kids possible in that locker room.

second, feeder programs. You cannot be a successful program year after year if your players haven’t been playing together before they get to high school. Even middle school usually isn’t enough. Get them on the same page. Get your basic playbooks into the hands of those elementary coaches. By 5th grade kids should know how to run trap plays, etc. 

third, infrastructure. You have to have the resources. Those weight rooms and conditioning programs have to be too notch. Get someone hired that knows nutrition. Who knows actual speed and strength training. Someone who has a degree in it. Not your oline coach who never went to college and diet plan consists of a nightly six pack. Set the example and be the example.

and last… And this is the most important. don’t be a dick. Kids today aren’t the same as kids 20 years ago. The world has changed. I’m not going to argue if it’s for better or worse but all I do know is these kids do not have the same type or interest and ways of thinking we did 25 years ago. Water breaks are no longer something that’s earned. That old school mentality will win you games. But you’ll find yourself falling behind the times. These kids want to see themselves on highlight tapes. Their parent want them to go to a school where their coach will get them recruited and scholarships. All of this is something that wasn’t really well thought out for a lot of coaches back then. It’s a must now to build a culture where kids want to play for you.

I always thought it was stupid to be told to run 5 more laps and  be near  death before you could get a drink of water. lol

[pjdoug]

I’m just curious about specific actions taken to build.  I know what SHOULD be happening in HS football.  HOW?

Okay- I’ll give you guys a REAL-hypothetical situation(pardon the oxymoron)!!

In 1967, Coalfield High won a third state title and had 20 or so boys who would knock your D straight!  Fast forward to 2023, same school is struggling to dress 20 guys, population has dwindled, tax base is dropping every year, and facilities have changed very little since that last nine win team in 1981.

OKAY- what must happen here to re-build football?

You answered your own question.  The population decline and lack of resources make it very difficult to rebuild simply because there really aren’t any people or money available to rebuild it. In the scenario you described I can’t see a rebuild being possible because of the poor economic conditions which in turn led to the talent drying up.

Coalfield and Raceland are probably similar?

Raceland is closer to areas with more job opportunities than Coalfield.  The majority of people in this area work in Ashland, Huntington, or in Ohio.  If Raceland wasn’t close to areas like that then they wouldn’t be successful and wouldn’t be able to pull kids from other districts.

Majority of people in Coalfield probably work in Oak Ridge and Knoxville. I don't see the disadvantage.