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09-15-2007, 06:36 AM
bball fan Wrote:Why is everyone bashing Mullins?? They showed up and beat the team that Pikeville put on the field. Don't take it out on Mullins because they beat you fair and square while you chose to take another royal beating at Sheldon Clark as well. The Panthers went 0-2 for the night. They probably could have gone 1-1 if they would have played full strength in the jr. high game but they chose a different outcome. Get over it and quit running your mouth!!You are right Mullins 8th graders beat Pikeville's 7th graders. If they did play at full strength for the jr. high game then they wouldn't have had enought to play the freshmen game. Meaning, Pikeville would have beat Mullins and not played SC. Ending the night at 1-0. Pikeville may be looking for another game to add to the schedule. Would you play again Mullins, this time at full strength?
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09-15-2007, 05:04 PM
bigpun Wrote:You are right Mullins 8th graders beat Pikeville's 7th graders. If they did play at full strength for the jr. high game then they wouldn't have had enought to play the freshmen game. Meaning, Pikeville would have beat Mullins and not played SC. Ending the night at 1-0. Pikeville may be looking for another game to add to the schedule. Would you play again Mullins, this time at full strength?
i dont think you could've said that any better
09-15-2007, 05:20 PM
bigpun Wrote:You are right Mullins 8th graders beat Pikeville's 7th graders. If they did play at full strength for the jr. high game then they wouldn't have had enought to play the freshmen game. Meaning, Pikeville would have beat Mullins and not played SC. Ending the night at 1-0. Pikeville may be looking for another game to add to the schedule. Would you play again Mullins, this time at full strength?
yes that makes good since. I hope the jr. panthers get another chance to play mullins and show them their for real!
09-18-2007, 07:26 PM
I have one question for mullins players. Would you play Pikevilles team at full strength?
09-27-2007, 04:45 PM
This is Coach Jackson.
Playing the 8th graders "up" was 100% MY decision and had nothing to do with Coach Branham or Coach Sullivan. I gave them a directive and they've followed it loyally -- for better or worse wins-and-losses-wise. I appreciate their loyalty to what is a DIFFICULT-IN-THE-SHORT-TERM, but WORTH-IT-IN-THE-LONG-RUN way to build the program.
Our PRIMARY goal at Pikeville is to build our varsity program into one that once again competes with ANYBODY in the state, at ANY class.
A SECONDARY goal is that our lower-level programs have a great experience playing the game so they want to play later, learn the proper fundamentals, learn our basic offensive/defensive/and special teams systems, and are competitive in the leagues in which they play.
To achieve the PRIMARY goal, it is essential that we don't cut our nose off to spite our face. In other words, if we put all our main efforts toward beating Mullins in a Jr. High game when 8-10 of our 8th graders can be getting more of a challenge by playing OLDER kids, then to me, we're going to feel good about ourselves in JUNIOR HIGH football, but eventually be disappointed down the road when our players haven't been "tested" enough to stand up to what they'll see when they play the Beechwoods, the Mayfields, and even the best local teams (like Hazard last year).
If they win most of their games by 50 points (like our Jr. High did in the '06 season), the OPPOSITE actually starts to happen and they get accustomed to being able to win without playing with proper technique. Further, if they get used to winning constantly in blowouts, when they actually ARE challenged (as they will be in their VARSITY playing days with the schedule we choose to play), they won't have known what it takes to pull out a CLOSE, hard-fought game.
Finally, another aspect of this decision involved the goal of "ensuring a good 'football experience' for as many as possible so they continue to play throughout high school." Many 8th graders are choosing not to play in high school in some part because they know that as Frosh they are going to be "low-man-on-the-totem-pole" on the JV team. To combat this, we wanted to give them a schedule of about 6 games where they could be the "top-dogs" and play against other Frosh. I wish we had enough to do that with JUST frosh but we are a SINGLE-A-sized school and that is difficult.
So, to allow for a full Frosh team, we (I) thought it would be a win-win to "promote" several of our more advanced 8th-graders up to playing against older and better competition (which, by the way, is exactly what they'll be doing as SOPHOMORES if they're called on to play in varsity games).
ANOTHER win in this is that many SEVENTH-GRADERS would get more playing time in Jr. High games than they would if all the 8th graders were playing. That gives even MORE kids a "good football experience" since they gain more playing time.
I knew going in (and communicated the same to parents at the first parent meeting) that WINNING the games at BOTH the Frosh and Jr. High levels would be TOUGHER for us this year since we would be playing YOUNGER kids vs. other people's OLDER kids. I tried to convince them that it's NOT all about "winning and losing" but rather improvement over time.
Beside all that, I was thinking with the END in mind -- I knew the 8th graders would eventually ALL come together at the end of the season during their playoffs (the REAL season for us at Pikeville -- regular season games are just PREPARATION for that real season to us) and then they'd actually be a BETTER team for having been "BATTLE-TESTED" against tougher competition than they'd have otherwise faced playing against kids their own age and potentially winning by 40 or more like in '06.
(Johnson Central has been doing something similar now for several years -- asking their 7th GRADE TEAM to play other schools' 8th GRADE teams. Yes, they LOSE more than they win in those games, but they get better because of it, and they're reaping the BENEFITS of it now. They used to be a doormat, and now they're a 5A power. But it didn't happen OVERNIGHT -- and it didn't happen without a few LOSSES at the lower levels against BETTER compeitition.)
The unfortunate thing is that Frosh games and Jr. High games are scheduled for the same night (Thursdays) so we had to SPLIT them to be able to have enough at both levels (again, something I was okay with because I knew it would mean more playing time for more 7th graders who would ALSO be improving more than if they were on the sidelines watching most of the game).
I've not been able to win over all the parents here with my approach, but we did reach somewhat of a compromise in a very productive meeting a few weeks ago. I told them I'd work to try to get all our Frosh games moved from Thursdays (and have been able to with one exception -- Belfry last week) so those kids would get to play as a "full team" for all the Jr. High games.
The downside is that I'm not going to get to see that increased playing time for our 7th graders, but at least the 8th graders that have been playing up will get that "battle-testing" we think is necessary to make you the BEST player you can be (not just a "good" one).
So, please, no more bashing of Coach Branham. If you don't like the policy, blame the HIGH SCHOOL head coach...but before you do that, understand that what needs to happen at a place that's SERIOUS about winning at the HIGHEST level down the road may involve some tough lessons, some "battle testing" that many aren't used to, and yes, even some LOSING at the lower-levels..there's been "good success" here in terms of wins-and-losses and even through the 1st three rounds of the playoffs, but who knows, if this kind of approach had occurred earlier, maybe Pikeville would have even a few MORE banners hanging?
Most things can't withstand the effects of something as destructive as a FIRE. But fire actually makes STEEL stronger. Similarly, not all kids will be able to withstand the CHALLENGE we're asking them to go through, and some will quit because of it. But those that make it THROUGH the fire will be stronger for it. I have GREAT confidence that PIKEVILLE KIDS are the kind that WANT to be challenged want to become their BEST when it matters most and are SMART enough to realize this is what's best in the LONG run. If not, then I've overestimated them and we'll have to go back to the way things have been done for years. But I don't think people around here really think that's "good enough."
Playing the 8th graders "up" was 100% MY decision and had nothing to do with Coach Branham or Coach Sullivan. I gave them a directive and they've followed it loyally -- for better or worse wins-and-losses-wise. I appreciate their loyalty to what is a DIFFICULT-IN-THE-SHORT-TERM, but WORTH-IT-IN-THE-LONG-RUN way to build the program.
Our PRIMARY goal at Pikeville is to build our varsity program into one that once again competes with ANYBODY in the state, at ANY class.
A SECONDARY goal is that our lower-level programs have a great experience playing the game so they want to play later, learn the proper fundamentals, learn our basic offensive/defensive/and special teams systems, and are competitive in the leagues in which they play.
To achieve the PRIMARY goal, it is essential that we don't cut our nose off to spite our face. In other words, if we put all our main efforts toward beating Mullins in a Jr. High game when 8-10 of our 8th graders can be getting more of a challenge by playing OLDER kids, then to me, we're going to feel good about ourselves in JUNIOR HIGH football, but eventually be disappointed down the road when our players haven't been "tested" enough to stand up to what they'll see when they play the Beechwoods, the Mayfields, and even the best local teams (like Hazard last year).
If they win most of their games by 50 points (like our Jr. High did in the '06 season), the OPPOSITE actually starts to happen and they get accustomed to being able to win without playing with proper technique. Further, if they get used to winning constantly in blowouts, when they actually ARE challenged (as they will be in their VARSITY playing days with the schedule we choose to play), they won't have known what it takes to pull out a CLOSE, hard-fought game.
Finally, another aspect of this decision involved the goal of "ensuring a good 'football experience' for as many as possible so they continue to play throughout high school." Many 8th graders are choosing not to play in high school in some part because they know that as Frosh they are going to be "low-man-on-the-totem-pole" on the JV team. To combat this, we wanted to give them a schedule of about 6 games where they could be the "top-dogs" and play against other Frosh. I wish we had enough to do that with JUST frosh but we are a SINGLE-A-sized school and that is difficult.
So, to allow for a full Frosh team, we (I) thought it would be a win-win to "promote" several of our more advanced 8th-graders up to playing against older and better competition (which, by the way, is exactly what they'll be doing as SOPHOMORES if they're called on to play in varsity games).
ANOTHER win in this is that many SEVENTH-GRADERS would get more playing time in Jr. High games than they would if all the 8th graders were playing. That gives even MORE kids a "good football experience" since they gain more playing time.
I knew going in (and communicated the same to parents at the first parent meeting) that WINNING the games at BOTH the Frosh and Jr. High levels would be TOUGHER for us this year since we would be playing YOUNGER kids vs. other people's OLDER kids. I tried to convince them that it's NOT all about "winning and losing" but rather improvement over time.
Beside all that, I was thinking with the END in mind -- I knew the 8th graders would eventually ALL come together at the end of the season during their playoffs (the REAL season for us at Pikeville -- regular season games are just PREPARATION for that real season to us) and then they'd actually be a BETTER team for having been "BATTLE-TESTED" against tougher competition than they'd have otherwise faced playing against kids their own age and potentially winning by 40 or more like in '06.
(Johnson Central has been doing something similar now for several years -- asking their 7th GRADE TEAM to play other schools' 8th GRADE teams. Yes, they LOSE more than they win in those games, but they get better because of it, and they're reaping the BENEFITS of it now. They used to be a doormat, and now they're a 5A power. But it didn't happen OVERNIGHT -- and it didn't happen without a few LOSSES at the lower levels against BETTER compeitition.)
The unfortunate thing is that Frosh games and Jr. High games are scheduled for the same night (Thursdays) so we had to SPLIT them to be able to have enough at both levels (again, something I was okay with because I knew it would mean more playing time for more 7th graders who would ALSO be improving more than if they were on the sidelines watching most of the game).
I've not been able to win over all the parents here with my approach, but we did reach somewhat of a compromise in a very productive meeting a few weeks ago. I told them I'd work to try to get all our Frosh games moved from Thursdays (and have been able to with one exception -- Belfry last week) so those kids would get to play as a "full team" for all the Jr. High games.
The downside is that I'm not going to get to see that increased playing time for our 7th graders, but at least the 8th graders that have been playing up will get that "battle-testing" we think is necessary to make you the BEST player you can be (not just a "good" one).
So, please, no more bashing of Coach Branham. If you don't like the policy, blame the HIGH SCHOOL head coach...but before you do that, understand that what needs to happen at a place that's SERIOUS about winning at the HIGHEST level down the road may involve some tough lessons, some "battle testing" that many aren't used to, and yes, even some LOSING at the lower-levels..there's been "good success" here in terms of wins-and-losses and even through the 1st three rounds of the playoffs, but who knows, if this kind of approach had occurred earlier, maybe Pikeville would have even a few MORE banners hanging?
Most things can't withstand the effects of something as destructive as a FIRE. But fire actually makes STEEL stronger. Similarly, not all kids will be able to withstand the CHALLENGE we're asking them to go through, and some will quit because of it. But those that make it THROUGH the fire will be stronger for it. I have GREAT confidence that PIKEVILLE KIDS are the kind that WANT to be challenged want to become their BEST when it matters most and are SMART enough to realize this is what's best in the LONG run. If not, then I've overestimated them and we'll have to go back to the way things have been done for years. But I don't think people around here really think that's "good enough."
09-27-2007, 05:44 PM
I'm just an outsider looking in on this. I think that just because Mullins defeated Pikeville doesn't mean that the future is bright for the Hawks. Congrats on the win, not trying to take anything away from you with this post. Back when I played middle school football our Paintsville team was probably 3-17 over the course of the two seasons I played. Was that a direct indication on how we were going to do during high school? Heck no. Players are developed and reach their max potential from their high school coaches. When we came in as freshmen no one was saying that the Tiger football team was going to be horrible by the time we became juniors and seniors. We grew up, learned a lot more about the game from our coaches, and matured more as both football players and individuals. Most of the kids on the 1 win 8th grade team that I played for ended up starting their sophomore season. Our worst season was an 8-4 record during our freshman campaign.. After that we averaged 9 wins a season over the course of the next 3 seasons including a Regional Runner-Up, Regional Title, and a State Semi-Final appearance. Middle school football and high school football are two totally different worlds. I applaud Coach J for bringing up the advanced middle school players for action against kids that are similar or better as far as skill level is concerned. Those kids sure aren't getting anything out of playing against weaker competition, you get better by playing against tougher competition. I think it is a good move on your part and it will pay off in the near future. Best of luck coach to you and your team this year and in the future.
09-27-2007, 11:46 PM
CoachJ Wrote:This is Coach Jackson.
Playing the 8th graders "up" was 100% MY decision and had nothing to do with Coach Branham or Coach Sullivan. I gave them a directive and they've followed it loyally -- for better or worse wins-and-losses-wise. I appreciate their loyalty to what is a DIFFICULT-IN-THE-SHORT-TERM, but WORTH-IT-IN-THE-LONG-RUN way to build the program.
Our PRIMARY goal at Pikeville is to build our varsity program into one that once again competes with ANYBODY in the state, at ANY class.
A SECONDARY goal is that our lower-level programs have a great experience playing the game so they want to play later, learn the proper fundamentals, learn our basic offensive/defensive/and special teams systems, and are competitive in the leagues in which they play.
To achieve the PRIMARY goal, it is essential that we don't cut our nose off to spite our face. In other words, if we put all our main efforts toward beating Mullins in a Jr. High game when 8-10 of our 8th graders can be getting more of a challenge by playing OLDER kids, then to me, we're going to feel good about ourselves in JUNIOR HIGH football, but eventually be disappointed down the road when our players haven't been "tested" enough to stand up to what they'll see when they play the Beechwoods, the Mayfields, and even the best local teams (like Hazard last year).
If they win most of their games by 50 points (like our Jr. High did in the '06 season), the OPPOSITE actually starts to happen and they get accustomed to being able to win without playing with proper technique. Further, if they get used to winning constantly in blowouts, when they actually ARE challenged (as they will be in their VARSITY playing days with the schedule we choose to play), they won't have known what it takes to pull out a CLOSE, hard-fought game.
Finally, another aspect of this decision involved the goal of "ensuring a good 'football experience' for as many as possible so they continue to play throughout high school." Many 8th graders are choosing not to play in high school in some part because they know that as Frosh they are going to be "low-man-on-the-totem-pole" on the JV team. To combat this, we wanted to give them a schedule of about 6 games where they could be the "top-dogs" and play against other Frosh. I wish we had enough to do that with JUST frosh but we are a SINGLE-A-sized school and that is difficult.
So, to allow for a full Frosh team, we (I) thought it would be a win-win to "promote" several of our more advanced 8th-graders up to playing against older and better competition (which, by the way, is exactly what they'll be doing as SOPHOMORES if they're called on to play in varsity games).
ANOTHER win in this is that many SEVENTH-GRADERS would get more playing time in Jr. High games than they would if all the 8th graders were playing. That gives even MORE kids a "good football experience" since they gain more playing time.
I knew going in (and communicated the same to parents at the first parent meeting) that WINNING the games at BOTH the Frosh and Jr. High levels would be TOUGHER for us this year since we would be playing YOUNGER kids vs. other people's OLDER kids. I tried to convince them that it's NOT all about "winning and losing" but rather improvement over time.
Beside all that, I was thinking with the END in mind -- I knew the 8th graders would eventually ALL come together at the end of the season during their playoffs (the REAL season for us at Pikeville -- regular season games are just PREPARATION for that real season to us) and then they'd actually be a BETTER team for having been "BATTLE-TESTED" against tougher competition than they'd have otherwise faced playing against kids their own age and potentially winning by 40 or more like in '06.
(Johnson Central has been doing something similar now for several years -- asking their 7th GRADE TEAM to play other schools' 8th GRADE teams. Yes, they LOSE more than they win in those games, but they get better because of it, and they're reaping the BENEFITS of it now. They used to be a doormat, and now they're a 5A power. But it didn't happen OVERNIGHT -- and it didn't happen without a few LOSSES at the lower levels against BETTER compeitition.)
The unfortunate thing is that Frosh games and Jr. High games are scheduled for the same night (Thursdays) so we had to SPLIT them to be able to have enough at both levels (again, something I was okay with because I knew it would mean more playing time for more 7th graders who would ALSO be improving more than if they were on the sidelines watching most of the game).
I've not been able to win over all the parents here with my approach, but we did reach somewhat of a compromise in a very productive meeting a few weeks ago. I told them I'd work to try to get all our Frosh games moved from Thursdays (and have been able to with one exception -- Belfry last week) so those kids would get to play as a "full team" for all the Jr. High games.
The downside is that I'm not going to get to see that increased playing time for our 7th graders, but at least the 8th graders that have been playing up will get that "battle-testing" we think is necessary to make you the BEST player you can be (not just a "good" one).
So, please, no more bashing of Coach Branham. If you don't like the policy, blame the HIGH SCHOOL head coach...but before you do that, understand that what needs to happen at a place that's SERIOUS about winning at the HIGHEST level down the road may involve some tough lessons, some "battle testing" that many aren't used to, and yes, even some LOSING at the lower-levels..there's been "good success" here in terms of wins-and-losses and even through the 1st three rounds of the playoffs, but who knows, if this kind of approach had occurred earlier, maybe Pikeville would have even a few MORE banners hanging?
Most things can't withstand the effects of something as destructive as a FIRE. But fire actually makes STEEL stronger. Similarly, not all kids will be able to withstand the CHALLENGE we're asking them to go through, and some will quit because of it. But those that make it THROUGH the fire will be stronger for it. I have GREAT confidence that PIKEVILLE KIDS are the kind that WANT to be challenged want to become their BEST when it matters most and are SMART enough to realize this is what's best in the LONG run. If not, then I've overestimated them and we'll have to go back to the way things have been done for years. But I don't think people around here really think that's "good enough."
I hear what your saying and understand........BUT..... I have to ask..... IS what your doing with your "8th" graders (allowing them to play up) fair to all the other teams in this county that are TRUE 8th grade only teams? I mean... if they play up in a "freshman" championship then, should they be allowed to play down in an 8th grade county championship? I'm sure if the other teams in the county were ALLOWED to do this it would be bucked on. I don't mean to be disrespectful as your post was VERY knowledgeable and made several people aware of what you have been doing with the program BUT can you see what I am saying as well??
09-28-2007, 12:54 AM
phs1986 Wrote:I hear what your saying and understand........BUT..... I have to ask..... IS what your doing with your "8th" graders (allowing them to play up) fair to all the other teams in this county that are TRUE 8th grade only teams? I mean... if they play up in a "freshman" championship then, should they be allowed to play down in an 8th grade county championship? I'm sure if the other teams in the county were ALLOWED to do this it would be bucked on. I don't mean to be disrespectful as your post was VERY knowledgeable and made several people aware of what you have been doing with the program BUT can you see what I am saying as well??
As long as when they play "back down" they're all STILL 8th graders (which they would be), it would be 8th graders against 8th graders. I'm failing to understand why that could be in any way unfair. They wouldn't be "playing down" -- they'd be exactly where their grade-level FITS for them to play.
They may be playing WITH 9th graders in 5 games during the season, but that doesn't MAKE them 9th graders.
Ancie Casey at the Pike Co. Bd. of Ed. and the other middle school coaches were made aware of what we were doing and there was not one person that mentioned anything to me about it being "unfair" to them in any way.
09-28-2007, 07:40 AM
CoachJ Wrote:As long as when they play "back down" they're all STILL 8th graders (which they would be), it would be 8th graders against 8th graders. I'm failing to understand why that could be in any way unfair. They wouldn't be "playing down" -- they'd be exactly where their grade-level FITS for them to play.
They may be playing WITH 9th graders in 5 games during the season, but that doesn't MAKE them 9th graders.
Ancie Casey at the Pike Co. Bd. of Ed. and the other middle school coaches were made aware of what we were doing and there was not one person that mentioned anything to me about it being "unfair" to them in any way.
Thanks for your reply... I was just curious on your take on it..... I could really PERSONALLY care less but I have heard several people ask why P'ville does it and NO one else in the county can. I understand also that the other schools are controlled by the county board and P'ville is independent..... Thank you again for your reply.
09-28-2007, 07:41 AM
phs1986 Wrote:I hear what your saying and understand........BUT..... I have to ask..... IS what your doing with your "8th" graders (allowing them to play up) fair to all the other teams in this county that are TRUE 8th grade only teams? I mean... if they play up in a "freshman" championship then, should they be allowed to play down in an 8th grade county championship? I'm sure if the other teams in the county were ALLOWED to do this it would be bucked on. I don't mean to be disrespectful as your post was VERY knowledgeable and made several people aware of what you have been doing with the program BUT can you see what I am saying as well??That makes absolutely no sense!! How in the world could it be unfair for 8th graders to play 8th graders???
09-28-2007, 07:45 AM
IN my world they would have a gained advantage of EXTRA play time that the other kids (8th graders playing 8th grade games ONLY) in the county don't. BUT.... like I said in my reply to Coach.... PERSONALLY.. I could care less either way. I have heard others make statements about why P'ville can do it and NO ONE else in the county can. BTW... Coach already answered my question!!
09-28-2007, 07:49 AM
phs1986 Wrote:IN my world they would have a gained advantage of EXTRA play time that the other kids (8th graders playing 8th grade games ONLY) in the county don't. BUT.... like I said in my reply to Coach.... PERSONALLY.. I could care less either way. I have heard others make statements about why P'ville can do it and NO ONE else in the county can. BTW... Coach already answered my question!!The county can do it if they want to!!
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