[Granny Bear]

No, no!! I really try to read those things objectively and not form it to fit what I want it to say.

Second Amendment:
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.."

You can have a well regulated Militia without private people bearing arms. I believe that part was placed specifically to address two different scenarios.



District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008), was a landmark case in which the Supreme Court of the United States held in a 5-4 decision that the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution applies to federal enclaves and protects an individual's right to possess a firearm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home. The decision did not address the question of whether the Second Amendment extends beyond federal enclaves to the states,[1] which was addressed later by McDonald v. Chicago (2010). It was the first Supreme Court case to decide whether the Second Amendment protects an individual right to keep and bear arms for self-defense.

SCOTUS interpretation....not mine. It does; however, appear to be the same.

[The Urban Sombrero]

Yes, HELLER is now the law of the land. What I am here suggesting is that the scope of a right is balanced by other Constitutional principles. I am not suggesting that the 2nd Amendment only means a huge cache of weapons be held for each state's militia members only. Members of my family have all manner of pistols and rifles, and one uncle, a collector, has a couple of military style, "mass kill" weapons. This is, in my view, consistent with 2nd Amendment. However, in my view, a stringent, exhaustive process ought to be required for a private citizen to obtain a military style, "mass kill" weapon. And I don't see that as being at odds with the 2nd Amendment.

[TheRealThing]

A "well regulated militia" forms the introductory aspect of the sentence, and, thus, informs the rest of it. That is not semantics or interpretation. That is the English language.

Maybe it's The Language of La-La Land. That is a thread bare liberal talking point and you'll never sell me on it, nor would you anybody who can read for themselves.

[TheRealThing]

You speak of "striking down the 2nd Amendment." I would not agree that the amendment was "struck down" if military style "mass kill" weapons had an extremely stringent regulatory process before an individual citizen could procure. What you are engaging in is argument of the extreme, and that is a logical fallacy. Is the only choice either that family in Pike County cower in the corner, or maw and paw and brother and sister grab an AR-15? I thought we were discussing military style, "mass kill" weaponry, NOT a Nazi style roundup of all weapons.

When are you guys going to get it through your heads that it is only you who buy this bull?

[TheRealThing]

Yes, HELLER is now the law of the land. What I am here suggesting is that the scope of a right is balanced by other Constitutional principles. I am not suggesting that the 2nd Amendment only means a huge cache of weapons be held for each state's militia members only. Members of my family have all manner of pistols and rifles, and one uncle, a collector, has a couple of military style, "mass kill" weapons. This is, in my view, consistent with 2nd Amendment. However, in my view, a stringent, exhaustive process ought to be required for a private citizen to obtain a military style, "mass kill" weapon. And I don't see that as being at odds with the 2nd Amendment.

No, especially if you can be there to throw all the inapplicable professor Irwin Corey style pseudonyms into the blender and see what comes out. You can throw everything but the kitchen sink at it, and smarter guys than you'll ever be have made it their life's work to give it their best. Gun control will never fly.

[The Urban Sombrero]

"Gun control will never fly." Are you at all familiar with the history of jurisprudence on the 2nd Amendment? Pendulums swing. The any citizen any weapon any time idea was 5-4 in HELLER. It hasn't quite reached "established law" just yet. The SCOTUS is not final because it is right; it is right because it is final. At least until the pendulum swings. At this point, we can agree to disagree, and watch the Court. I believe that military style, "mass kill" weapons should be very difficult for a private citizen to procure. If that is some radical, Nazi-ish grab at all the pistols and rifles my relatives have, that is an error on your part, a self-serving distortion of an attempt at rational debate.

[TheRealThing]

"Gun control will never fly." Are you at all familiar with the history of jurisprudence on the 2nd Amendment? Pendulums swing. The any citizen any weapon any time idea was 5-4 in HELLER. It hasn't quite reached "established law" just yet. The SCOTUS is not final because it is right; it is right because it is final. At least until the pendulum swings. At this point, we can agree to disagree, and watch the Court. I believe that military style, "mass kill" weapons should be very difficult for a private citizen to procure. If that is some radical, Nazi-ish grab at all the pistols and rifles my relatives have, that is an error on your part, a self-serving distortion of an attempt at rational debate.

Fine, let us disagree. I mean, the 2nd Amendment has only been around since 1791, if that isn't established law there is no such thing.

[The Urban Sombrero]

Fine, let us disagree. I mean, the 2nd Amendment has only been around since 1791, if that isn't established law there is no such thing.

The SCOTUS has a long history dealing with the 2nd Amendment. The Amendment itself, of course, is established. The case law interpreting it exists as something of a pendulum, with its phraseology being interpreted differently, leading to variations in the outcome of cases.

[Pulp Fiction]

When are we going to realize terrorist & criminals ARE NOT GOING TO ABIDE BY THE LAWS!!!!!!! That is why the federal system and state prisons are building new prisons and expanding.
They will not abide by any Gun Control measures..... they will probably throw a party when the next Gun Control measure gets passed.



There are WAY more criminals and terrorist than there are police on every level (local, state, federal) I would say it's a 100-1 ratio, maybe higher.




THE UNITED STATES IS AT WAR WITH RADICAL islam EXTREMEIST!!!!!!!!!!!
There will be another attack on U.S. Soil against United States citizens!!!!!!!!!

What will be the tipping point to see the United States citizens round up their "militia" and go on the offensive?

[Demarcus ware]

When are we going to realize terrorist & criminals ARE NOT GOING TO ABIDE BY THE LAWS!!!!!!! That is why the federal system and state prisons are building new prisons and expanding.
They will not abide by any Gun Control measures..... they will probably throw a party when the next Gun Control measure gets passed.



There are WAY more criminals and terrorist than there are police on every level (local, state, federal) I would say it's a 100-1 ratio, maybe higher.




THE UNITED STATES IS AT WAR WITH RADICAL islam EXTREMEIST!!!!!!!!!!!
There will be another attack on U.S. Soil against United States citizens!!!!!!!!!

What will be the tipping point to see the United States citizens round up their "militia" and go on the offensive?

The US isn't at war with the radicals, the radicals are at war with the US. While i don't get hung up on who calls them what, this administration has failed miserably with regards to it's planning and actions with ISIS. You have to remember this admin called them the JV team, then said they was contained. Trump gave them a plan, Obama and his General's said it won't work and mocked him. Excuse me, but i don't want to take advice from Generals that haven't won a war in such a long time that they forgot how to win. There will be more attacks on US soil, many more unless something is done. Problem is, we are worried more about hurting someone's feelings than defending our citizens. It's not just the radicals, it's Islam period. How many Muslims have you seen come out and speak against the radicals? How many Muslim groups have you seen protesting what is happening on behalf of their faith? Right now in Florida, there are cops stationed at Mosque to prevent retaliation, ever seen churches guarded when a supposed gun toting, white male Christian, NRA card carrying member commits a crime to prevent retaliation? NOPE...

As far as the gun thing, to say we don't need whatever is ludicrous. France has some of the most strict gun laws in the world, still people were slaughtered. Blaming the tool of a madman isn't the answer. If it was, there would be laws against flying planes into buildings killing people, there would be laws against blowing people up at a marathon. Oh wait.....The fact is, the FBI has failed to stop the Boston Bombing, they failed in California, they failed in Orlando. Until the government decides it wants to protect it's citizens, don't give up anything, in fact, go buy more and buy bigger.

[TheRealThing]

The US isn't at war with the radicals, the radicals are at war with the US. While i don't get hung up on who calls them what, this administration has failed miserably with regards to it's planning and actions with ISIS. You have to remember this admin called them the JV team, then said they was contained. Trump gave them a plan, Obama and his General's said it won't work and mocked him. Excuse me, but i don't want to take advice from Generals that haven't won a war in such a long time that they forgot how to win. There will be more attacks on US soil, many more unless something is done. Problem is, we are worried more about hurting someone's feelings than defending our citizens. It's not just the radicals, it's Islam period. How many Muslims have you seen come out and speak against the radicals? How many Muslim groups have you seen protesting what is happening on behalf of their faith? Right now in Florida, there are cops stationed at Mosque to prevent retaliation, ever seen churches guarded when a supposed gun toting, white male Christian, NRA card carrying member commits a crime to prevent retaliation? NOPE...

As far as the gun thing, to say we don't need whatever is ludicrous. France has some of the most strict gun laws in the world, still people were slaughtered. Blaming the tool of a madman isn't the answer. If it was, there would be laws against flying planes into buildings killing people, there would be laws against blowing people up at a marathon. Oh wait.....The fact is, the FBI has failed to stop the Boston Bombing, they failed in California, they failed in Orlando. Until the government decides it wants to protect it's citizens, don't give up anything, in fact, go buy more and buy bigger.

Remember, it is a little hard to NOT agree with your commander-in-chief. And he, thank the Lord above, only has 219 days left in office while the general's careers will go on. I guess the bigger concern right now is what will be left when he finally is gone. Many I know feel the same way about the merciful departure of this President; https://www.amazon.com/BigMouth-Inc-Coun...B004WKQOT0 My impression is that the scene at that point will be surreal and possibly a little like walking through the debris field where a tornado has wiped out all vestiges of normalcy and familiarity of one's hometown.

And you hit on the fact that radical Islam is at war with the US and that that has been on going for so long that most people have become desensitized to it. If you saw Mr Obama's speech yesterday you saw that he was livid, not with radical Islam but with Donald J. Trump. 49 lay dead and 52 were wounded, but it was a potential Trump Presidency to which he directed his ire. That alone, ought to be enough to get those fence straddlers where it comes to supporting the Republican nominee, down off their perches and doing what they can to unite the party.

So in what may well prove to have been an historically pivotal opportunity for our nation, and while most Americans anxiously await Nov. 8, Republican elites and many of the so-called conservative press have formed a circular firing squad inside the tent, that threatens to take the whole place down. It is incredible to think what is happening to the GOP. The hope to me, lies with the good graces and good sense of the people. And one can throw all the hyperbole and what ifs at this thing that they want, this fall, no matter what may unfold, one of only two people will be president.

Hillary, or Trump.

[TheRealThing]

The SCOTUS has a long history dealing with the 2nd Amendment. The Amendment itself, of course, is established. The case law interpreting it exists as something of a pendulum, with its phraseology being interpreted differently, leading to variations in the outcome of cases.

Or, it may be that the left, in their never ending mania to dispatch reality, use law suits to attack the 2nd Amendment and other laws with which they disagree at every occasion in ever more beguiling and clever ways. Using phrases of the text and even single words such as when federal funding for ObamaCare was upheld based on the meaning of the word state, to change the meaning into something else. They do it all the time.

[Demarcus ware]

Remember, it is a little hard to NOT agree with your commander-in-chief. And he, thank the Lord above, only has 219 days left in office while the general's careers will go on. I guess the bigger concern right now is what will be left when he finally is gone. Many I know feel the same way about the merciful departure of this President; https://www.amazon.com/BigMouth-Inc-Coun...B004WKQOT0 My impression is that the scene at that point will be surreal and possibly a little like walking through the debris field where a tornado has wiped out all vestiges of normalcy and familiarity of one's hometown.

And you hit on the fact that radical Islam is at war with the US and that that has been on going for so long that most people have become desensitized to it. If you saw Mr Obama's speech yesterday you saw that he was livid, not with radical Islam but with Donald J. Trump. 49 lay dead and 52 were wounded, but it was a potential Trump Presidency to which he directed his ire. That alone, ought to be enough to get those fence straddlers where it comes to supporting the Republican nominee, down off their perches and doing what they can to unite the party.

So in what may well prove to have been an historically pivotal opportunity for our nation, and while most Americans anxiously await Nov. 8, Republican elites and many of the so-called conservative press have formed a circular firing squad inside the tent, that threatens to take the whole place down. It is incredible to think what is happening to the GOP. The hope to me, lies with the good graces and good sense of the people. And one can throw all the hyperbole and what ifs at this thing that they want, this fall, no matter what may unfold, one of only two people will be president.

Hillary, or Trump.

Yes sir, i did see his speech, that was the most emotions i've seen from him i think. Sadly, his anger was aimed in the wrong direction...After seeing Paul Ryan and Mitch Mcconnell speak the last few day, i've lost all hope for the GOP in Washington. They will reap what they sow. Ryan has a tough election coming up. I can only hope Wisconsin sees what he is doing, i like his opponent as well. If Hillary wins, all hope is lost and we will have to wait another 4 or 8 years before order can be restored. If we are still alive then.

[Granny Bear]

I just happened upon an interview the other day on Fox news, with a college professor who was Muslim. He said he was very frustrated with his Muslim community because they do not express more outrage about what is happening caused by the part of their faith that has become extreme.

He went even further by saying that they should speak out against that radicalized portion of the Muslim community, and if they do nothing, then they are just as guilty.

That's all I remember; I think I fainted for a while.

[WideRight05]

You guys know I can't stand Trump, but that's just crazy that Barack Obama had the nerve to jump on him like that when he should have been jumping on the person/people involved in that awful shooting. Donald Trump did not commit that horrific act.

I think of George Bush, he would have never made this an issue about gun control or the election. He would have been requesting prayer and action taken to help the families and need and made that his main points of emphasis. That is how you unite. Instead, Barack Obama continues to break our country off into these little groups and sub-groups.

[Demarcus ware]

I just happened upon an interview the other day on Fox news, with a college professor who was Muslim. He said he was very frustrated with his Muslim community because they do not express more outrage about what is happening caused by the part of their faith that has become extreme.

He went even further by saying that they should speak out against that radicalized portion of the Muslim community, and if they do nothing, then they are just as guilty.

That's all I remember; I think I fainted for a while.

Maybe they are afraid? who knows why they don't. Polls suggest that even moderates love Sharia law. It's not just a radical problem, it's an Islam problem. But hey, we have to protect our Muslim American communities or so our Government keeps telling us :biggrin:

[Demarcus ware]

You guys know I can't stand Trump, but that's just crazy that Barack Obama had the nerve to jump on him like that when he should have been jumping on the person/people involved in that awful shooting. Donald Trump did not commit that horrific act.

I think of George Bush, he would have never made this an issue about gun control or the election. He would have been requesting prayer and action taken to help the families and need and made that his main points of emphasis. That is how you unite. Instead, Barack Obama continues to break our country off into these little groups and sub-groups.

That's the thing, people don't have to be a Trump supporter to see how wrong this was. He found an opportunity to attack Trump, while at the same time to push his agenda for gun control. While I'm on this subject, did anyone see the three Democrats walk out of Congress yesterday during the moment of silence for Orlando? Over gun control. Keepin' it classy i see.

[The Urban Sombrero]

The sitting President of the United States is, basically, accused of coddling terrorists, with a near insinuation that he goes easy on extremists, by the presumptive Republican nominee for President, so he vigorously defends himself. Geez, that's just awful. Right wing homers.

[Demarcus ware]

The sitting President of the United States is, basically, accused of coddling terrorists, with a near insinuation that he goes easy on extremists, by the presumptive Republican nominee for President, so he vigorously defends himself. Geez, that's just awful. Right wing homers.

I didn't see him really defended himself though. He trashed trump for his views, he defended muslims, but never really seen him defend himself. If he was going to defend himself, maybe he should have started with why he called them a JV team, why he said they was contained a mere hours before the slaughter in France, why he still doesn't have a plan for ISIS, why he doesn't have a better plan to Vet all these TB carrying refugees, the list could go on for days. I'd still rather be a right wing homer than a Muslim terrorist sympathizing liberal.

[The Urban Sombrero]

"...a Muslim terrorist sympathizing liberal"... and there it is. If one is waiting for an idiot to reveal his idiocy, one won't wait long.

[Demarcus ware]

"...a Muslim terrorist sympathizing liberal"... and there it is. If one is waiting for an idiot to reveal his idiocy, one won't wait long.

So exactly which part of his speech was defending himself? Talk about an idiot..LOL Everyone look and point at the Urban Sombrero the village liberal nut job.

[The Urban Sombrero]

Of course, "himself" would extend to policy (drone strikes, bombing sorties, etc.). Of course, calling Randall Terry and other women's health clinic killers "Christian extremists" upset other Christians, as they suggested Christians do not commit murder. Of course, Islam has well over a billion adherents world wide, only a small fraction of which pursue jihad. A terrorist will fly a plane into a building for a cause. Who doesn't condemn that? Other terrorists. It is one thing to blast President Obama for his policies, his judicial appointments, etc. But to question his loyalty to America? Right wing homer.

[TheRealThing]

Of course, "himself" would extend to policy (drone strikes, bombing sorties, etc.). Of course, calling Randall Terry and other women's health clinic killers "Christian extremists" upset other Christians, as they suggested Christians do not commit murder. Of course, Islam has well over a billion adherents world wide, only a small fraction of which pursue jihad. A terrorist will fly a plane into a building for a cause. Who doesn't condemn that? Other terrorists. It is one thing to blast President Obama for his policies, his judicial appointments, etc. But to question his loyalty to America? Right wing homer.

There is no excuse for any form of terror within US borders owing to any reason including ideology or as it applies to the responsibilities of the President to keep Americans safe. And yet, things did change here on 9/11/2001. No American prior to that day could imagine any sort of act of war or terror on US soil because in modern history it had not happened, even during WW2.

Still we know that radical Islam is a very real and present danger here now, and it is incumbent upon the President as part of his sworn oath of office, to do everything possible to protect the citizenry. Immigrating to America is a privilege, not a right. We don't necessarily have to let anybody in here if there is any form of threat associated with same, and that includes disease. Even liberals cannot deny that. But right now, the US taxpayer if being forced to fund the transportation needs, educational needs, all life necessity needs in fact, of a portion of the Muslim peoples of the world. News reports tell us that amid those immigrants are embedded a radical Islamic fifth column. Only one person killed 50 and maimed 50 more in a scant few minutes of terror a few nights ago, and he was an amateur in comparison to a trained and possibly even battle hardened fighter.

Donald Trump doesn't understand the President's insistence that we must endure these incidents of terror as the new normal, and why we must accept the horror because supposedly, US authorities know what is best for us and are doing everything they can to keep up with terror plots. Meanwhile, again down in Florida, Governor Scott has been told that the White House will not divulge the identities of 10,000 incoming Syrian refugees, when they're coming, or where they will be located. How many on here really think that any rational American taxpayer wants his money to be spent in such a manner?

John Bolton recently said that the FBI has a time limit affixed to any terror investigation. They have precious few days to build a case and prosecute it, or they must drop it. Administration guidelines govern in such cases so, for liberals to be on air saying that there is some credible argument to gun control because the FBI didn't prosecute this monster when they had him, is incredibly disingenuous.

[The Urban Sombrero]

⬆⬆ I do not disagree with you here, TRT, and am no real fan of President Obama. I do think we ought to be able to disagree, and strongly, without calling into question love of country or visceral disgust at acts of terrorism. The United States, in my view, cannot solve the divide in Islam itself, and a lot of our soldiers will continue to die and be maimed if we keep getting in the middle. I support a radical reassessment of what constitues vital U.S. interests in the entire region, including Saudi Arabia.

[TheRealThing]

⬆⬆ I do not disagree with you here, TRT, and am no real fan of President Obama. I do think we ought to be able to disagree, and strongly, without calling into question love of country or visceral disgust at acts of terrorism. The United States, in my view, cannot solve the divide in Islam itself, and a lot of our soldiers will continue to die and be maimed if we keep getting in the middle. I support a radical reassessment of what constitues vital U.S. interests in the entire region, including Saudi Arabia.

That will work for me. I am not certain that Mr Obama's love of this country, is greatly different from his boyhood love of country and his home in Kenya however.

[RunItUpTheGut]

I just happened upon an interview the other day on Fox news, with a college professor who was Muslim. He said he was very frustrated with his Muslim community because they do not express more outrage about what is happening caused by the part of their faith that has become extreme.

He went even further by saying that they should speak out against that radicalized portion of the Muslim community, and if they do nothing, then they are just as guilty.

That's all I remember; I think I fainted for a while.

This is where the guy you seen on TV is wrong.
The same religion that he follows, according to Quran, is closely aligned with exactly what the jihadist are doing.
If he doesn't agree with extremism, then he shouldn't be a muslim. There teachings tell them to do so. He's not a "true" believer as they say if he doesn't believe in killing us "infidels".
That's why this isn't a terror problem or radical Islam problem. It just an islam problem. It's that faith in general that should be considered wrong and condemned. Until we eradicate that religion from our borders it will always be a problem.

[The Urban Sombrero]

This is where the guy you seen on TV is wrong.
The same religion that he follows, according to Quran, is closely aligned with exactly what the jihadist are doing.
If he doesn't agree with extremism, then he shouldn't be a muslim. There teachings tell them to do so. He's not a "true" believer as they say if he doesn't believe in killing us "infidels".
That's why this isn't a terror problem or radical Islam problem. It just an islam problem. It's that faith in general that should be considered wrong and condemned. Until we eradicate that religion from our borders it will always be a problem.

⬆⬆ This is a drastically misleading post about a religion with well over one billion adherents across the globe.

[TheRealThing]

⬆⬆ This is a drastically misleading post about a religion with well over one billion adherents across the globe.

No, not really. What would you suppose to be the true reason that Muslims just cannot seem to motivate themselves to in any meaningful fashion, condemn the violence and jihad? Could it be maybe their beliefs tell them that though as you point out, billions of them are not trigger pullers or bomb throwers, they still see all this as an acceptable means to an end? Which end BTW, is to gain the goal common to all Muslims, that being total world dominance of the Islamic faith as clearly defined in the Quran. And regardless of the liberal drivel on the matter, any movement in that direction is not necessarily a bad thing in their eyes?

Ever read the Quran? Brigitte Gabriel has; "Called a "radical Islamophobe" in The New York Times, Gabriel travels the country giving talks about how she endured persecution in Lebanon as a Christian at the hands of radical Muslim terrorists. Every “practicing Muslim who believes in the teaching of the Quran… cannot be a loyal citizen to the United States of America,” says Gabriel." https://islamophobianetwork.com/echo-cha...te-gabriel And who would you suppose are among Mrs Gabriel's most extreme critics? American, white boy, ivy league educated liberals of course! The college classroom has become a fantasy land for the sublimely naïve.

The threat of jihad is in itself menace enough however, the liberal ostriches who can effectively make the world go away within the comfortable confines of their particular delusion are no slouches to that end themselves. There are true authorities on the subject of Islam and it's teachings, and they aren't the flag waving tolerant-to-a-fault youth of America, or their liberal college prof mentors. I tend to listen to those reared and baptized in the fire of one or another of the various cultures of the Arab World. Ben Rhodes and Valerie Jarrett, not so much.

[The Urban Sombrero]

Just as the prosperity gospel has infected Christianity, by use of vagabonding through the Bible prooftexting, so has jihadism infected Islam. Now, granted, the doctrine of jihad produces terrorists, while word-faith produces Creflo Dollar$, but both are bastardizations in my view.

[TheRealThing]

Just as the prosperity gospel has infected Christianity, by use of vagabonding through the Bible prooftexting, so has jihadism infected Islam. Now, granted, the doctrine of jihad produces terrorists, while word-faith produces Creflo Dollar$, but both are bastardizations in my view.

Now that was a sidestep in a class by itself.