[TheRealVille]

Tit for tat.

YOU know as well as I do, if you work for a company and don't join the union that all of the others have you will be harassed, and eventually pushed out. Do not tell me that you wont.

That's the reason for the season. Join or get cut out. Nobody wants to go to work to be ignored all day and being harassed.

No, you can't work for a union company if you don't belong to the union. You wouldn't be "pushed out", because you would never be in.

[RunItUpTheGut]

No, you can't work for a union company if you don't belong to the union. You wouldn't be "pushed out", because you would never be in.

That's my exact point. I was referring to when unions come into the work place.
The right to work laws are needed for the future.

Since when is it American to tell people how to run there businesses anyways. Look at this way. Ill never own the company I work for. Hell, there are only a handful of men in this state that could afford to. That doesn't make me jealous. If you get hired on somewhere and they tell you your making 10 dollars an hour no matter what, that's there purgative. Nobody else's. You should either find a better job, or suck it up.

Ive held three jobs in my entire life. One when I was a kid, one when I graduated high school, and the one I have now. None have been unions.
However, at my second job when I got out of school, it was a factory job. Crappy days, crappy hours, and miniscule pay for hard work. Did I complain? No, because they weren't holding me against my will. I was free to leave and find a better job at anytime, and I did.
The workers threatened them with a union one day. The owners got wind that union stewards had been talking to employees. The very next day they called a meeting for all workers. They gave the employees two options. Forget the union and take a dollar raise. Or they pad lock the doors and shut it down.
Smart move on there part. My point is, they didn't even have to give the raise. They had enough money to shut down and never work or run a company again.

Oh, and A "right-to-work" law is a statute in the United States that prohibits union security agreements, or agreements between labor unions and employers, that govern the extent to which an established union can require employees' membership, payment of union dues, or fees as a condition of employment, either before or after hiring. Right-to-work laws do not aim to provide general guarantee of employment to people seeking work, but rather are a government regulation of the contractual agreements between employers and labor unions that prevents them from excluding non-union workers, or requiring employees to pay a fee to unions that have negotiated the labor contract all the employees work under.

Wouldn't it be smarter to forget a union at the place you work and live under these guidelines under this law? After all, they cannot exclude you from the agreements, but you wont have to pay the greedy unions a dime. Seems to me its a no brainer. When people realize this, it will be the end of unions.
Exactly how am I wrong in this situation?

[TheRealVille]

That's my exact point. I was referring to when unions come into the work place.
The right to work laws are needed for the future.

Since when is it American to tell people how to run there businesses anyways. Look at this way. Ill never own the company I work for. Hell, there are only a handful of men in this state that could afford to. That doesn't make me jealous. If you get hired on somewhere and they tell you your making 10 dollars an hour no matter what, that's there purgative. Nobody else's. You should either find a better job, or suck it up.

Ive held three jobs in my entire life. One when I was a kid, one when I graduated high school, and the one I have now. None have been unions.
However, at my second job when I got out of school, it was a factory job. Crappy days, crappy hours, and miniscule pay for hard work. Did I complain? No, because they weren't holding me against my will. I was free to leave and find a better job at anytime, and I did.
The workers threatened them with a union one day. The owners got wind that union stewards had been talking to employees. The very next day they called a meeting for all workers. They gave the employees two options. Forget the union and take a dollar raise. Or they pad lock the doors and shut it down.
Smart move on there part. My point is, they didn't even have to give the raise. They had enough money to shut down and never work or run a company again.

Oh, and A "right-to-work" law is a statute in the United States that prohibits union security agreements, or agreements between labor unions and employers, that govern the extent to which an established union can require employees' membership, payment of union dues, or fees as a condition of employment, either before or after hiring. Right-to-work laws do not aim to provide general guarantee of employment to people seeking work, but rather are a government regulation of the contractual agreements between employers and labor unions that prevents them from excluding non-union workers, or requiring employees to pay a fee to unions that have negotiated the labor contract all the employees work under.

Wouldn't it be smarter to forget a union at the place you work and live under these guidelines under this law? After all, they cannot exclude you from the agreements, but you wont have to pay the greedy unions a dime. Seems to me its a no brainer. When people realize this, it will be the end of unions.
Exactly how am I wrong in this situation?

Why would you even want to work for a union company, going by that? Are you willing to go find work at a union company, you being non union, and forgo the benefits the union workers negotiate? Or, from where you find your information, would you be a "free rider", and benefit from my negations? Do you realize that in "right to work" states all worker wages are subpar to non right to work states? Do you also realize that in my trade, we get workers all the time coming up from right to work states, because their wages are so low? Oh, and by the way, it's plain to see that you took words from wiki and added them here.

[Harry Rex Vonner]

Why would you even want to work for a union company, going by that? Are you willing to go find work at a union company, you being non union, and forgo the benefits the union workers negotiate? Or, from where you find your information, would you be a "free rider", and benefit from my negations? Do you realize that in "right to work" states all worker wages are subpar to non right to work states? Do you also realize that in my trade, we get workers all the time coming up from right to work states, because their wages are so low? Oh, and by the way, it's plain to see that you took words from wiki and added them here.

It appears that the heyday of the unions is coming to an end. What would dullards like Richie Trumka do if they actually had to work and produce for a living? I have no problem with unions as such. My problem is with the Neanderthals, like Trumka, who run them. Many union members have nothing in common with their union bosses. The bosses have their heads permanently wedged up the butts of liberal Democrats. There is no "freedom of choice" in those union meetings and elections, either, They are run like the Nazi Gestapo and, if honest, TheRealVille must agree.

[RunItUpTheGut]

Why would you even want to work for a union company, going by that? Are you willing to go find work at a union company, you being non union, and forgo the benefits the union workers negotiate? Or, from where you find your information, would you be a "free rider", and benefit from my negations? Do you realize that in "right to work" states all worker wages are subpar to non right to work states? Do you also realize that in my trade, we get workers all the time coming up from right to work states, because their wages are so low? Oh, and by the way, it's plain to see that you took words from wiki and added them here.

The days of unions are numbered that's easy to see.
And yes I took words from wiki. Do you think anyone would come up with that exact definition? Sorry I didn't take the time to put it in a quote. Personally I don't care about plagiarism even in the slightest. Call me rand Paul if you will.
But back on the subject.
Those people that leave right to work states. Do they talk about there rent going from 350 a month to a 1000 like in most blue states?
I think we've gotten to a point where it's the Dems who are the big money corporate guys. That's all a union is. A big money corporation.

[TheRealThing]

^^Most unions serve no purpose, such as those who represent teachers, public works employees and government employees. Their emergence in the workplace has done more harm than good as they merely wanted to tap in on the success of big labor. A gimmick to help drive up wages and benefits and unfortunately to provide cover to the slugs. Teachers and government clerks and the like get their training in high school and in some cases college. Such training is broadly generic to the professions in which they may wind up. Thus a government applicant with an education which includes computer training, English, and perhaps business can work in any office setting. Obviously a teacher must have a degree in education but once that is achieved, they could find themselves teaching almost any subject the school at which they apply has need.

Now, if one's chosen profession is a steel mill or one of the building trades, a particular skill set is requisite to being able to work in that environment. It would be ridiculous to assume that some knucklehead off the street or fresh out of high school could be expected to report to work some Monday morning, take an elevator up 30 floors on a new high rise, walk out on 8 inch 'I' beams and begin connecting red iron. The men who perform such specialized and challenging feats must be trained over the course of a four year apprenticeship. Preparing them and managing their training and skill development to an exacting standard is the work of those in the trades who having worked a lifetime in the field, and then chose to stay on and teach apprentices. In that environment many will try but, few are chosen. The same is true for every craft, in every setting whether that be building cars or your neighborhood elementary school building.

So, unions provide an indispensable service in training the work force in this nation, which I can tell you is the best in the world. Times have somewhat slowed, construction and industry have changed or the process or product has changed to answer market demands. Where unions have gone completely off their nut, is exactly what Harry Rex is talking about. Union bosses fraternizing with politicians in an attempt to stimulate demand for union labor in a market that is in somewhat of a lull. Guess what guys, the calls for labor will start coming in when folks have need of them. Until that time we should be gracious enough to know that labor contracts don't force owners to do a thing. Sometimes union men must make do working at something else until times get better. That's just the way it is. Layoffs are part and parcel to that life style. So, all these dealings with the devil (candidates) are nothing more than a very expensive flirtation with political types who will tell them anything they want to hear as long as the donations keep coming in.

If everybody was a union member what distinction or particular honor would that confer? I submit that it would be nada. If everybody was an astronaut, going to space wouldn't mean much and if everybody becomes a union member the significance becomes moot. Such is the pursuit of today's union bosses. The reason they want union membership to be bursting at the seams is to help control the government. The idea is simplistic and wrong but, plainly stated. Elect a Democrat to every post and they will help labor. I got 3 words for all union members. SUPPLY AND DEMAND

[Mr. Onion Head]

Obviously a teacher must have a degree in education but once that is achieved, they could find themselves teaching almost any subject the school at which they apply has need.

Will you expand on this?

[TheRealThing]

Will you expand on this?

Sure, if you're a former athlete of lore returning home with an education major your school system just might help you out.

[TheRealVille]

^^Most unions serve no purpose, such as those who represent teachers, public works employees and government employees. Their emergence in the workplace has done more harm than good as they merely wanted to tap in on the success of big labor. A gimmick to help drive up wages and benefits and unfortunately to provide cover to the slugs. Teachers and government clerks and the like get their training in high school and in some cases college. Such training is broadly generic to the professions in which they may wind up. Thus a government applicant with an education which includes computer training, English, and perhaps business can work in any office setting. Obviously a teacher must have a degree in education but once that is achieved, they could find themselves teaching almost any subject the school at which they apply has need.

Now, if one's chosen profession is a steel mill or one of the building trades, a particular skill set is requisite to being able to work in that environment. It would be ridiculous to assume that some knucklehead off the street or fresh out of high school could be expected to report to work some Monday morning, take an elevator up 30 floors on a new high rise, walk out on 8 inch 'I' beams and begin connecting red iron. The men who perform such specialized and challenging feats must be trained over the course of a four year apprenticeship. Preparing them and managing their training and skill development to an exacting standard is the work of those in the trades who having worked a lifetime in the field, and then chose to stay on and teach apprentices. In that environment many will try but, few are chosen. The same is true for every craft, in every setting whether that be building cars or your neighborhood elementary school building.

So, unions provide an indispensable service in training the work force in this nation, which I can tell you is the best in the world. Times have somewhat slowed, construction and industry have changed or the process or product has changed to answer market demands. Where unions have gone completely off their nut, is exactly what Harry Rex is talking about. Union bosses fraternizing with politicians in an attempt to stimulate demand for union labor in a market that is in somewhat of a lull. Guess what guys, the calls for labor will start coming in when folks have need of them. Until that time we should be gracious enough to know that labor contracts don't force owners to do a thing. Sometimes union men must make do working at something else until times get better. That's just the way it is. Layoffs are part and parcel to that life style. So, all these dealings with the devil (candidates) are nothing more than a very expensive flirtation with political types who will tell them anything they want to hear as long as the donations keep coming in.

If everybody was a union member what distinction or particular honor would that confer? I submit that it would be nada. If everybody was an astronaut, going to space wouldn't mean much and if everybody becomes a union member the significance becomes moot. Such is the pursuit of today's union bosses. The reason they want union membership to be bursting at the seams is to help control the government. The idea is simplistic and wrong but, plainly stated. Elect a Democrat to every post and they will help labor. I got 3 words for all union members. SUPPLY AND DEMAND

What do you think about right to work laws? FTR, the apprenticeship program is 5 years for my trade nowadays, I'm not sure about yours though. Ours used to be 4, but they upped it to 5.

[TheRealThing]

What do you think about right to work laws? FTR, the apprenticeship program is 5 years for my trade nowadays, I'm not sure about yours though. Ours used to be 4, but they upped it to 5.

In the mid 70's I was in Houston, Texas when the nonunion contractor known as Brown & Root got a firm foothold there. The talk was that due to right to work laws, union tradesmen were about to see the demise of their way of life. The jobs would go to the scabs, hasta la vista baby. It never happened and Texas is a booming union market to this day. Brown and Root and all the rest will never unseat the union craftsman. Like Rome, the only way unions at that level will crumble is by their own hand. So, am I worried about the big ballyhoo about RTW? In a word, no.

An interesting little side bar here. In that day (1975) it was common knowledge that Lady Bird Johnson was a major stock holder of Brown & Root which was bought out by and became Halliburton in which, Lady Bird held major interest to the day of her death, July 12, 2007. It was a medium sized construction company in Texas. They got all of the contracts to build all of the bases, roads, and airports in Vietnam. Not mentioning that Houston Control was built by B&R and ordered by Johnson. It soon became the largest construction company in the USA.

In 1962, Brown & Root sold out to Halliburton, a booming oil-well construction-and-services firm, and in the following years the conglomerate grew spectacularly. According to Dan Briody, who has written a book on the subject, Brown & Root was part of a consortium of four companies that built about eighty-five per cent of the infrastructure needed by the Army during the Vietnam War. [All Politics is Local]

Considering the amount of character assassination Dick Chaney has endured over his role in Halliburton, is it not ironic that Dem's version of the historical record does not include mention of the Johnsons? Could it be that if one has an R after his name it's open season and if he has a D he gets a pass?

At any rate, the need for world class tradesmen will surge again due to a redefining US industry and the effects the ravages of time have had on our infrastructure. At that time all will be well, as long as the unions do their job and train the world's best. Carpenters, millwrights, pile drivers all 4.

[Mr. Onion Head]

Sure, if you're a former athlete of lore returning home with an education major your school system just might help you out.

I don't think it happens as often as you think. Schools are required to hire candidates that have the required degrees first or they face lawsuits of the applicants who were more qualified. The only way to emergency hire someone is based on if no one else applied for the job that had the degree. Former athletes of lore may get hired, but it doesn't mean they don't have a specific education in Special Ed, or a certain field.

[TheRealThing]

I don't think it happens as often as you think. Schools are required to hire candidates that have the required degrees first or they face lawsuits of the applicants who were more qualified. The only way to emergency hire someone is based on if no one else applied for the job that had the degree. Former athletes of lore may get hired, but it doesn't mean they don't have a specific education in Special Ed, or a certain field.

Okay I concede the point, perhaps my post was too broad as I know degrees are tailored to the various fields, though I know it happens. My intent was to call out professional fields that have opted to bargain collectively. Especially silly in cases where the state has carved out jurisdiction due to the fact that such professions are taxpayer funded entities.

[RunItUpTheGut]

I don't know if you guys know this or not, but in TN, at least a couple of schools I know, doesn't require teachers to have a teaching certificate.

[TheRealThing]

I don't know if you guys know this or not, but in TN, at least a couple of schools I know, doesn't require teachers to have a teaching certificate.

Not hard for me to believe at all.

[TheRealVille]

Did everybody get their "ELECTION VIOLATION NOTICE" in the mail from Mitch. I know I did, and others have contacted election officials, and complained about voter intimidation. Alison has filed an injunction on the matter. This is the guy you all want to elect.

http://www.politicususa.com/2014/10/31/a...ctics.html

[TheRealThing]

Did everybody get their "ELECTION VIOLATION NOTICE" in the mail from Mitch. I know I did, and others have contacted election officials, and complained about voter intimidation. Alison has filed an injunction on the matter. This is the guy you all want to elect.

http://www.politicususa.com/2014/10/31/a...ctics.html

LOL, Republicans used to just sit on their hands while Dems were out concocting any tall tale they could dream up. Alison has been busted time after time for running campaign ads that were patently untrue. And that not from any Kentucky based media, it was from the Washington Post. No anti coal concerns have been giving McConnell money. It was a lie and she got called out for it. At least Mitch has right on his side.

[Harry Rex Vonner]

Did everybody get their "ELECTION VIOLATION NOTICE" in the mail from Mitch. I know I did, and others have contacted election officials, and complained about voter intimidation. Alison has filed an injunction on the matter. This is the guy you all want to elect.

http://www.politicususa.com/2014/10/31/a...ctics.html

Well, since he is a Republican he couldn't use the Democrat trick of telling blacks that Republicans would bring back slavery or telling the elderly that Republicans would end Social Security or telling minks that Republicans would cut out their free birth control, so I guess he had to use a different approach. And, guess what, unlike you liars, his mailing told the truth.

Any voters too dumb to see that it is a political mailing shouldn't be voting anyway. Of course, history proves that nearly all of those dumb voters are Democrats anyway.

Bottom line: the mailing is factual.

[Bob Seger]

VOTER INTIMIDATION!!!

Seems like I've heard of that stuff before..Didn't that crime fighter Eric Holder lay the wood down on the New Black Panthers for pulling that stunt in Philadelphia?

You can bet stuff like that wasn't gonna happen under his watch.:redboxer:

[RunItUpTheGut]

Whats funny about the little mailers is ive gotten 55 pieces of mail from both candidates since this election started. Like the majority of voters, my mind was made up before I even knew who Mcconnells opponent would be.


What pisses the dems off about the mailer is that its true. Grimes may have run one of the worst campaigns in the history of Ky politics. Then again, when you agree and love Obama in this state, youre never going to win. She would have been better off running as an independent.

[TheRealThing]

Whats funny about the little mailers is ive gotten 55 pieces of mail from both candidates since this election started. Like the majority of voters, my mind was made up before I even knew who Mcconnells opponent would be.


What pisses the dems off about the mailer is that its true. Grimes may have run one of the worst campaigns in the history of Ky politics. Then again, when you agree and love Obama in this state, youre never going to win. She would have been better off running as an independent.

They don't call them lieberals for nothing. :biggrin:

[Smokey Hayes]

If I understand correctly, Allison Grimes has requested an injunction to stop McConnell from sending campaign mail. That is hilarious! :hilarious:

She is definitely not ready for the big stage of Washington politics. If she gets elected, she will be eaten alive and all Kentuckians will suffer from her weakness.

[TheRealVille]

^It is in the process of maybe bringing 2 felony charges against him, as well as 2 state charges. He mailed out official looking mailers, and committed voter intimidation. He might have disqualified himself from office, and get charged also. The state attorney is looking into the case. He may have melted his campaign down, when he appeared to have it won.

http://www.politicususa.com/2014/11/01/f...eaker.html

[Smokey Hayes]

^It is in the process of maybe bringing 2 felony charges against him, as well as 2 state charges. He mailed out official looking mailers, and committed voter intimidation. He might have disqualified himself from office, and get charged also. The state attorney is looking into the case.

http://www.politicususa.com/2014/11/01/f...eaker.html

:thatsfunn Is this your attempt at political satire or are you serious?

If you are serious, then I say it is mighty nice of Demoncrat Jack Conway to take time to look into bringing unfounded criminal charges against Republican Senate candidate Mitch McConnell so close to an important election. I am sure that voters will give these charges all of the attention that they deserve.

[TheRealVille]

:thatsfunn Is this your attempt at political satire or are you serious?

If you are serious, then I say it is mighty nice of Demoncrat Jack Conway to take time to look into bringing unfounded criminal charges against Republican Senate candidate Mitch McConnell so close to an important election. I am sure that voters will give these charges all of the attention that they deserve.

If he committed those felonies, the voters will not matter.

[Smokey Hayes]

If he committed those felonies, the voters will not matter.

AL Grimes needs to put her big boy britches on if she wants to be a successful politician. Nobody likes a weak, whining woman candidate who cannot fight her own battles.

[TheRealThing]

^It is in the process of maybe bringing 2 felony charges against him, as well as 2 state charges. He mailed out official looking mailers, and committed voter intimidation. He might have disqualified himself from office, and get charged also. The state attorney is looking into the case. He may have melted his campaign down, when he appeared to have it won.

http://www.politicususa.com/2014/11/01/f...eaker.html

If he committed those felonies, the voters will not matter.

All that amounts to is a last ditch attempt to blow enough smoke so as to confuse voters who may be teetering. If there were very many fitting that description, and I submit that there are not, maybe it would have been worth the effort.

Obama's policies have come back to bite him and deservedly so. Contrary to conventional Democrat wisdom, all voters aren't idiots who need to be told what they think.

I doubt that Mitch is quaking in his boots for worry about what Grimes and Jack Conway can do to him.

[Smokey Hayes]

If my hard working, morally correct democrat grandfather were alive today he would be appalled and sickened to be associated with anything that resembles todays democratic party.

Can anyone pinpoint in time exactly when this party drifted off course to what it has become today? Was it during the Bill Clinton era? It just seems like all of a sudden I looked up and "Bam" here it is. I could never have imagined 20 years ago that this nation would be doing the stuff that's going on now...As an example this stuff going on in Houston is not only mind boggling, but frightening to the point that it should have even the most liberal person in this country alarmed.

Bob Seger, I don't think that anybody can pinpoint an exact time when the Democratic Party began its warm embrace of the world's most extreme left wing ideologies. I place much of the blame on Republicans for letting the Democratic Party to deteriorate to the corrupt institution that we see today. More specifically, the blame belongs to what Mark Levin and others call the "Ratchet Republicans.

The Ratchet Republicans, beginning with George H. W. Bush's term, or maybe earlier with Nixon or Ford, have stopped articulating and advocating traditional conservative positions that involve undoing the damage that socialist programs have inflicted on this nation. Instead, they oppose new programs when they are powerless to stop them, and then do nothing to reverse them when they gain the power to get rid of the programs. The result is a ratcheting effect where the nation becomes more socialist when Democrats are in control, and maintains the status quo when Republicans are in power.

Ronald Reagan is the last Republican president who actively worked to undo the damage that liberals have been inflicting on this country.

Today, Democrats are lining up behind Hillary Clinton, who would no doubt drag the country even further to the left with Harry Reid's help. We can expect no different from today's Democrat Party. What is more disturbing is that even if Republicans regain control of the Senate and win the White House in 2016, if the national GOP shot-callers have their way, this country will not move back to the right, it will be put in a holding pattern until the next time that the socialist wing of the Democratic Party, which is in fact nearly the entire Democratic Party, regains control.

Socialists' grip on this country is being tightened thanks to the Ratchet Republicans, as well as the socialist Democrats. They are two parts of the same tool and the tool is working in harmony to destroy all that we hold dear.

John Warner and the Ratchet Republicans

[TheRealThing]

Bob Seger, I don't think that anybody can pinpoint an exact time when the Democratic Party began its warm embrace of the world's most extreme left wing ideologies. I place much of the blame on Republicans for letting the Democratic Party to deteriorate to the corrupt institution that we see today. More specifically, the blame belongs to what Mark Levin and others call the "Ratchet Republicans.

The Ratchet Republicans, beginning with George H. W. Bush's term, or maybe earlier with Nixon or Ford, have stopped articulating and advocating traditional conservative positions that involve undoing the damage that socialist programs have inflicted on this nation. Instead, they oppose new programs when they are powerless to stop them, and then do nothing to reverse them when they gain the power to get rid of the programs. The result is a ratcheting effect where the nation becomes more socialist when Democrats are in control, and maintains the status quo when Republicans are in power.

Ronald Reagan is the last Republican president who actively worked to undo the damage that liberals have been inflicting on this country.

Today, Democrats are lining up behind Hillary Clinton, who would no doubt drag the country even further to the left with Harry Reid's help. We can expect no different from today's Democrat Party. What is more disturbing is that even if Republicans regain control of the Senate and win the White House in 2016, if the national GOP shot-callers have their way, this country will not move back to the right, it will be put in a holding pattern until the next time that the socialist wing of the Democratic Party, which is in fact nearly the entire Democratic Party, regains control.

Socialists' grip on this country is being tightened thanks to the Ratchet Republicans, as well as the socialist Democrats. They are two parts of the same tool and the tool is working in harmony to destroy all that we hold dear.

John Warner and the Ratchet Republicans

We agree on everything you have said here. However, I believe I can remember when political spin first began to turn American justice into wormwood. What made it so effective was the medium in which it was delivered, that of the trusted nightly news programs. You mention Ronald Reagan's work to overcome the erosive effects that liberal ideas had wreaked on our society in his day. Believe me when I tell you, the media was no friend of Ronald Reagan. And through their nightly tirades and unfair characterizations, in the same manner in which a small rudder turns great ships, the faith America had in her politicians began to be ever so slowly but unmistakably diverted off course. If you were old enough to be observant during the Reagan era, you know how incredibly different a comparison between say, 1985 and 2014 really is, is.

To me, liberals began to assert their influence in a meaningful way back in 1948 when ACLU lawyer Leo Pfeffer argued a novel constitutional view before the SCOTUS. The idea known as the "separation of Church and state" was his brain child and effectively stood the conventional understanding of protection for the Church against government intrusion on it's head. Nowadays, in a blatant twist of irony, the government claims the high ground as deriving from an authority which is above question, that being itself!

Our founding fathers openly submitted themselves in subjection to the "Creator", thusly deriving their moral authority to govern from His precepts and accountable to Him for what they had set forth as our way of governance within the texts of the founding documents. So, what we have now is an authority (government) which recognizes no authority higher than itself for guidance. Even to the exclusion of "the people." The result of which has been a long and sad procession of ill conceived legislation. Starting with the afore mentioned "Everson versus Board of Education of Ewing Township" to Johnson's "Great Society", to "Roe v Wade", to the repeal of DADT, to the string of legislation which has had no Republican support for the last 6 years. So, this ship of state we call America is asea with no rudder, or at least one that only goes one way, left.

None the less, it is to me far better to slow down the rush for the iceberg than to steam mindlessly on toward destruction. I think Levin and others are pretty spot on with their analysis, however, though we have admittedly lost our way our journey started with one small step. I'll take small steps in the right direction over steaming unabashed into the iceberg any day! I pray we will see a Republican Senate and House, and I pray more Republicans will wake up.

TEAM MITCH

[Hoot Gibson]

We agree on everything you have said here. However, I believe I can remember when political spin first began to turn American justice into wormwood. What made it so effective was the medium in which it was delivered, that of the trusted nightly news programs. You mention Ronald Reagan's work to overcome the erosive effects that liberal ideas had wreaked on our society in his day. Believe me when I tell you, the media was no friend of Ronald Reagan. And through their nightly tirades and unfair characterizations, in the same manner in which a small rudder turns great ships, the faith America had in her politicians began to be ever so slowly but unmistakably diverted off course. If you were old enough to be observant during the Reagan era, you know how incredibly different a comparison between say, 1985 and 2014 really is, is.

To me, liberals began to assert their influence in a meaningful way back in 1948 when ACLU lawyer Leo Pfeffer argued a novel constitutional view before the SCOTUS. The idea known as the "separation of Church and state" was his brain child and effectively stood the conventional understanding of protection for the Church against government intrusion on it's head. Nowadays, in a blatant twist of irony, the government claims the high ground as deriving from an authority which is above question, that being itself!

Our founding fathers openly submitted themselves in subjection to the "Creator", thusly deriving their moral authority to govern from His precepts and accountable to Him for what they had set forth as our way of governance within the texts of the founding documents. So, what we have now is an authority (government) which recognizes no authority higher than itself for guidance. Even to the exclusion of "the people." The result of which has been a long and sad procession of ill conceived legislation. Starting with the afore mentioned "Everson versus Board of Education of Ewing Township" to Johnson's "Great Society", to "Roe v Wade", to the repeal of DADT, to the string of legislation which has had no Republican support for the last 6 years. So, this ship of state we call America is asea with no rudder, or at least one that only goes one way, left.

None the less, it is to me far better to slow down the rush for the iceberg than to steam mindlessly on toward destruction. I think Levin and others are pretty spot on with their analysis, however, though we have admittedly lost our way our journey started with one small step. I'll take small steps in the right direction over steaming unabashed into the iceberg any day! I pray we will see a Republican Senate and House, and I pray more Republicans will wake up.

TEAM MITCH

I agree with everything you said above, TRT, but Woodrow Wilson may be the father of today's toxic Democratic Party. Wilson actually advocated limiting the education of most students to just the knowledge that was required for factory work. That idea has evolved into the liberal's notion that students just need enough knowledge to collect a welfare check and recognize the letter "D" on the ballot. I am no fan of Glen Beck but he deserves credit for fingering Wilson as the source of much of what ails this country. He pioneered the role of the liberal academic destroying our once great public school system.

[TheRealThing]

I agree with everything you said above, TRT, but Woodrow Wilson may be the father of today's toxic Democratic Party. Wilson actually advocated limiting the education of most students to just the knowledge that was required for factory work. That idea has evolved into the liberal's notion that students just need enough knowledge to collect a welfare check and recognize the letter "D" on the ballot. I am no fan of Glen Beck but he deserves credit for fingering Wilson as the source of much of what ails this country. He pioneered the role of the liberal academic destroying our once great public school system.

And I didn't even know who you were yet. LOL Beck does deserve credit for calling out Wilson, I hadn't realized all that stuff until I saw it while Beck was still on FOX. So, in that light, maybe I should say that I remember when liberals managed to bang second gear.

The founders knew all about basic liberalism. Which if I had to boil down to one sentence would be man's tendency to bow before government. And in their minds the only antidote was self governance by diligent and responsible citizens who understand what an enormous gift freedom really poses. The comments many of them made during and after the constitutional convention reflect their concerns and their misgivings about whether it would last very long in the hands of their successors. Seriously, even if one considers how far we have strayed just in the last 60 years, and was not alive (and cognizant) during that time to see it, he has no basis to make an adequate comparison. But, to say America is in decline is an understatement of epic proportion IMO.

All I can say is keep stacking up those sand bags and maybe we can keep hope alive.