You make the call

rojas · 03-11-2014, 10:55 PM

This happened in the regional final I attended tonight. The call could of easily decided the game.

Team A is throwing the ball in under their own basket. The ball grazes the fingertip of a team A player and goes into the backcourt where Team A retrieves it. Is this over and back?

**BlackcatAlum** · 03-11-2014, 10:57 PM

Sounds like over and back to me.

**Strikeout King** · 03-11-2014, 11:02 PM

Yeah, that's over and back. If a team has possession of the ball inside halfcourt and lose it, without it touching a player from the other team and goes over into the back court, that's over and back, including on out of bounds plays like mentioned.

rojas · 03-11-2014, 11:14 PM

Sorry Blackcat Alum and Strikeout King. You are both mistaken. This is a common misconception. Don't be hard on yourselves. The supposedly top 3 in the 16th region apparently didn't know the rule either. Nor did I.

This happened tonight when Scott County inbounded the ball in the front court. The ball grazed a SC players finger and bounced into the back court where SC retrieved it. The officials called over and back. I thought it was a good call too. SC coach Hicks called time out to inform the officials that SC would have had to have possession, not just a touch, to be over and back. We looked up the rule after the game. Coach Hicks was correct and couldn't believe none of the officials knew the rule. Below is the rule:

Player A1 has the ball for a throw-in under his basket. He tosses the ball to A2 who first touches the ball in his front
court. But he's unable to control the ball. It goes off his hand and into the back court where he retrieves it. Contrary
to popular belief, this is a legal play. One key element of the four requirements is missing: The ball was not controlled
by A2 before going into the back court. Therefore, this is not a back-court violation.

**Strikeout King** · 03-11-2014, 11:16 PM

Any time someone from the same team touches the ball in the front court and it goes to the back court, it's over and back. Ask any coach that and they'll tell you the same thing.

rojas · 03-11-2014, 11:18 PM

Strikeout King Wrote:Any time someone from the same team touches the ball in the front court and it goes to the back court, it's over and back. Ask any coach that and they'll tell you the same thing.

But those coaches would be wrong. Not every coach would tell you that. Billy Hicks knew the rule. Below is the rule again straight from the rule book.

Player A1 has the ball for a throw-in under his basket. He tosses the ball to A2 who first touches the ball in his front
court. But he's unable to control the ball. It goes off his hand and into the back court where he retrieves it. Contrary
to popular belief, this is a legal play. One key element of the four requirements is missing: The ball was not controlled
by A2 before going into the back court. Therefore, this is not a back-court violation.

**Strikeout King** · 03-11-2014, 11:23 PM

I've never heard anything like it. You'll have to ask some officials about that one.

If I'm an official (which I'm not) and that play happened, I'd call it over and back too.

rojas · 03-11-2014, 11:24 PM

Strikeout King Wrote:I've never heard anything like it. You'll have to ask some officials about that one.

If I'm an official (which I'm not) and that play happened, I'd call it over and back too.

That's what they called tonight, but they were dead wrong. Did you read the rule?

**Panther Thunder** · 03-11-2014, 11:25 PM

You have to possess the ball in the front court before over and back can be called. The ball starting out of bounds in the front court does nothing to change that, all that matters is where possession begins in play. That is why I hate seeing players run back towards midcourt for an inbound pass and look down quickly like they couldn't let their momentum carry them in the back court. It is the same idea as the goal line in football on an interception. A player can pick a pass off and let their momentum carry them into the endzone without fear of a safety being called.

D IT UP · 03-11-2014, 11:29 PM

Pretty easy to understand considering the ball is being inbounded. No possession has been made until the ball is retrieved. Pretty good comparison too, by P.T.

rojas · 03-11-2014, 11:35 PM

Panther and D are 100% correct. Why did neither of the top 3 officials in the 16th know the rule is the big question.

**Strikeout King** · 03-11-2014, 11:36 PM

rojas Wrote:That's what they called tonight, but they were dead wrong. Did you read the rule?

Yeah I read the rule. I've never seen this type of play happen before

rojas · 03-11-2014, 11:38 PM

Not knowing the rule could have easily changed the outcome of the game.

Bolt · 03-12-2014, 12:18 AM

rojas is right.
When inbounding the ball, you have to possess it before and over and back is ruled.
I might be mistaken, but its different in college or NBA one.

pugsley79 · 03-12-2014, 12:27 AM

No player has to have possession and when ball is thrown in a player has to have control. This is not over and back. Go Knott County. Find another reason you lost. Rupp Arena Bound

pugsley79 · 03-12-2014, 12:29 AM

Its not over and back. read rule book. You people who lost tonight can't change a rule so you will have a reason for your loss

rojas · 03-12-2014, 04:44 AM

pugsley79 Wrote:Its not over and back. read rule book. You people who lost tonight can't change a rule so you will have a reason for your loss

You are correct. The 16the region officials made the wrong call in the 11th region finals. Even after the officials conferred they still got it wrong.

**RavenBoy** · 03-12-2014, 04:48 AM

This happens in almost every game(over and back) refs are not perfect and don't see everything. Get over it!

rojas · 03-12-2014, 06:06 AM

RavenBoy Wrote:This happens in almost every game(over and back) refs are not perfect and don't see everything. Get over it!

The officials are not perfect. However, they did see this play perfectly. They were just ignorant of the rule. I was too at the time.

**PHSForever** · 03-12-2014, 07:05 AM

pugsley79 Wrote:Its not over and back. read rule book. You people who lost tonight can't change a rule so you will have a reason for your loss

Ummm, in fairness, I believe they said it COULD affect the outcome of a game. Sounds like they didn't lose, just were pointing out the refs didn't know the rule, and even after conferring, still got it wrong.

rojas · 03-12-2014, 07:06 AM

PHSForever Wrote:Ummm, in fairness, I believe they said it COULD affect the outcome of a game. Sounds like they didn't lose, just were pointing out the refs didn't know the rule, and even after conferring, still got it wrong.

Good call. That's exactly what I was saying.

***zaga_fan*** · 03-12-2014, 09:05 AM

Gotta maintain control of the ball for it to be over and back.