[Hoot Gibson]

I recall somebody criticizing those of us who were predicting the shutdown of the Big Sandy power plant a few months ago. We were assured that only one generating unit would be replaced because it was antiquated. A lot seems to have changed in less than a year. I wonder if it has anything to do with Obama's reelection? Are the major utilities just throwing in the towel and passing the cost of Obama's misguided policies directly to consumers?

[TheRealVille]

I recall somebody criticizing those of us who were predicting the shutdown of the Big Sandy power plant a few months ago. We were assured that only one generating unit would be replaced because it was antiquated. A lot seems to have changed in less than a year. I wonder if it has anything to do with Obama's reelection? Are the major utilities just throwing in the towel and passing the cost of Obama's misguided policies directly to consumers?

One is converting to gas. There are two units there, number 1 is shutting down. The big one is staying open.

Here is a list of the closures:

Conesville Plant Unit 3, Conesville, Ohio – 165 MW;
Big Sandy Plant Unit 1, Louisa, Ky. – 278 MW;
Clinch River Plant Unit 3, Cleveland, Va. – 235 MW;
Glen Lyn Plant (two units), Glen Lyn, W.Va. – 335 MW;
Kammer Plant (three units), Moundsville, W.Va. – 630 MW;
Kanawha River Plant (two units), Glasgow, W.Va. – 400 MW;
Muskingum River Plant Units 1, 2, 3 and 4, Beverly, Ohio – 840 MW;
Picway Plant (one unit), Lockbourne, Ohio – 100 MW;
Philip Sporn Plant (four units), New Haven, W.Va. – 600 MW;
Tanners Creek Plant Units 1, 2 and 3, Lawrenceburg, Ind. – 495 MW; and
Welsh Plant Unit 2, Pittsburg, Texas – 528 MW.

It is probably worth noting that AEP said this plan is different from the near-6,000 megawatts of anticipated retirements that it announced last June, due to the retirement of the 450-MW Sporn Unit 5 in February 2012 and due to AEP’s decision to request regulatory approval in Kentucky to retrofit the 800-MW Big Sandy Unit 2 with environmental control equipment rather than retiring the unit.




Read more: AEP Formalizes Plant Closures, Power Grid Trouble Ahead? (AEP) - 24/7 Wall St. http://247wallst.com/2012/03/22/aep-form...z2LmJUByur

[Hoot Gibson]

One is converting to gas. There are two units there, number 1 is shutting down.

So all of the coal-fired units are being scrapped. Is that right? If so, what has changed? Congress has passed no new laws that would have forced the recently announced closures, have they? I wonder if there are any details languishing in EPA Sec. Jackson's private email account, which was being used for official EPA business to elude FOIA requests.

[TheRealVille]

So all of the coal-fired units are being scrapped. Is that right? If so, what has changed? Congress has passed no new laws that would have forced the recently announced closures, have they? I wonder if there are any details languishing in EPA Sec. Jackson's private email account, which was being used for official EPA business to elude FOIA requests.

All units, at all of those plants are coal units. Some are being converted to gas, some closed.

[Hoot Gibson]

All units, at all of those plants are coal units. Some are being converted to gas, some closed.

So, what has changed in the past few months? AEP attributes their decision to the regulatory environment. Congress has passed no new laws that have impacted the industry because Republicans control the House. So do you agree that changes in the enforcement of regulations by Obama's EPA is responsible, or is AEP lying?

[TheRealVille]

So, what has changed in the past few months? AEP attributes their decision to the regulatory environment. Congress has passed no new laws that have impacted the industry because Republicans control the House. So do you agree that changes in the enforcement of regulations by Obama's EPA is responsible, or is AEP lying?

New EPA regulations have been set to go into effect for several years, even from the Bush years. Do your homework. Some of these news regulations have been set way before Obama.

[Hoot Gibson]

New EPA regulations have been set to go into effect for several years, even from the Bush years. Do your homework. Some of these news regulations have been set way before Obama.

So, it's Bush's fault :biglmao:

If new regulations had been written during the Bush years and scheduled to go into effect this year, then why did AEP change its plan to maintain coal-fired units at the Louisa plant and claim that changes in enforcement by the Obama administration prompted their change in plans?

Face it, RV. Obama is making good on his declaration of war on the coal industry. The EPA is making controversial changes to enforcement policies and it has worked hard to hide its anti-coal agenda from the public.

Will you at least agree that it is illegal and immoral to use private email accounts to avoid complying with the Freedom of Information Act, or would that only be wrong in a Republican administration?

[TheRealThing]

Why do BS AEP people say the life of it is over, then? You are a "commercial" construction guy, leave the big stuff to the big boys.

Sorry, I took a break from the RealVille presided over 'comedy hour' to go watch a movie with my wife. I sat across the lunch table from guys like you and I've also handed them their check. You want to delude yourself into thinking you're a construction "big boy" that suits me to a T.

Like I've said on a number of occassions, I prefer to take my cues from a little higher up the food chain. But I know you'll keep trying. :biggrin:

[TheRealThing]

So, it's Bush's fault :biglmao:

If new regulations had been written during the Bush years and scheduled to go into effect this year, then why did AEP change its plan to maintain coal-fired units at the Louisa plant and claim that changes in enforcement by the Obama administration prompted their change in plans?

Face it, RV. Obama is making good on his declaration of war on the coal industry. The EPA is making controversial changes to enforcement policies and it has worked hard to hide its anti-coal agenda from the public.

Will you at least agree that it is illegal and immoral to use private email accounts to avoid complying with the Freedom of Information Act, or would that only be wrong in a Republican administration?

Ooh, that's gonna be hard to explain. Cancelling a billion dollar project because of EPA mandates that have been on the books since before Bush left office? :dudecomeon:

[Downtown10]

The bad news is that my "coal" buddy says that the Justice guys are crooks that won't pay,and treat their workers like crap, and will go belly up at the slightest hint of trouble.

Your coal buddy is right. I worked for Justice for about a year and a half. He's worth over a billion dollars. You wouldn't know it by working for him, or by the way he don't pay his bills; but I guess that's why he's worth a billion dollars.

[TheRealVille]

So, it's Bush's fault :biglmao:

If new regulations had been written during the Bush years and scheduled to go into effect this year, then why did AEP change its plan to maintain coal-fired units at the Louisa plant and claim that changes in enforcement by the Obama administration prompted their change in plans?

Face it, RV. Obama is making good on his declaration of war on the coal industry. The EPA is making controversial changes to enforcement policies and it has worked hard to hide its anti-coal agenda from the public.

Will you at least agree that it is illegal and immoral to use private email accounts to avoid complying with the Freedom of Information Act, or would that only be wrong in a Republican administration?

Ooh, that's gonna be hard to explain. Cancelling a billion dollar project because of EPA mandates that have been on the books since before Bush left office? :dudecomeon:

Read up on the Clean Air Act and you might find that different standards start at different years. Of course, you two already knew this, but it doesn't play into your "blame Obama" game. nicker:

[vector]

http://mediamatters.org/research/2012/09...oal/190041

[Hoot Gibson]

Read up on the Clean Air Act and you might find that different standards start at different years. Of course, you two already knew this, but it doesn't play into your "blame Obama" game. nicker:

Once again you demonstrate that you do not know what you are talking about and don't really want to know. The Clean Air Act was last amended in 1990. The Act itself is the same as it was under Bill Clinton and the same as it was under George W. Bush. More importantly, and more to the point, it is the same as it was when Barack Obama took office, the same as it was when Barack Obama was reelected, and the same as it was when AEP had no plan to permanently shut down any part of its Louisa power plant.

You do not seem to know how the regulatory process works in Washington. All that has changed, and what is causing panic and chaos in the coal industry and among utilities that burn coal to generate electricity is that Barack Obama declared war on coal in 2008 and has ordered the EPA to modify regulations that will drive up the cost of burning coal to the point that it will become unaffordable in many cases.

Now, resume your mindless filibuster. You have made it clear that it is you who do not understand the role that the Clean Air Act played in AEP's change in plans (none). You just cannot handle the truth.

[vector]

http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0403/p01s01-usju.html

[Hoot Gibson]

http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0403/p01s01-usju.html

AEP's decision was made within the past few months. The Supreme Court decision reported in the article that you linked was announced nearly six years ago. Did you bother to read it, or did you just cut and paste the link from one of the Obama apologists' websites?

(However, I am impressed that you have learned to cut and paste url links. Most people who feel the need use small, misspelled words for their clone accounts prefer to avoid using links.) :biglmao:

[TheRealThing]

Read up on the Clean Air Act and you might find that different standards start at different years. Of course, you two already knew this, but it doesn't play into your "blame Obama" game. nicker:

The word is overregulation. Not laws or acts. Regulations come out of the EPA daily. Just like ObamaCare, the basic framework is there but there are literally thousands upon thousands of regs coming down that nobody has seen because they haven't been written yet. Fair minded folks shudder to think of the consequences both sets of regulationss represent to the Amerian public, and rightly so since they have limitless potential to further screw things up. LOL, sir, you need to put the kool aid down and walk away!

[Hoot Gibson]

The word is overregulation. Not laws or acts. Regulations come out of the EPA daily. Just like ObamaCare, the basic framework is there but there are literally thousands upon thousands of regs coming down that nobody has seen because they haven't been written yet. Fair minded folks shudder to think of the consequences both sets of regulationss represent to the Amerian public, and rightly so since they have limitless potential to further screw things up. LOL, sir, you need to put the kool aid down and walk away!

I think that the Kool-Aid is being pumped through an IV (or a garden hose). :biggrin:

[Hoot Gibson]

http://mediamatters.org/research/2012/09...oal/190041

Media Matters? Seriously?:dudecomeon:

[TheRealThing]

I think that the Kool-Aid is being pumped through an IV (or a garden hose). :biggrin:

LOL, or a Rose Garden hose.

[zaga_fan]

Has anyone heard speculation that these job offers are scams?

[RunItUpTheGut]

^
Most likely.
There were a 150 jobs lost this week that i know of.

My life depends on the coal market.
IMHO, if the Repubs keep control of the house in 2014, and barring any dramatic changes, they should, then coal should start booming again next year.

Most people dont realize that after a coal boom, like we had in late 2010, and throughout 2011, there is always a coal bust. This one was just hit specifically hard, and had lasted longer than projected. Most coal companies profit margins were less than budget for 2012 and it took a hit, but ill admit weather had a lot to do with that. Another misconception is more coal goes out during the winter to heat homes, when the fact is more coal is used during the summer time, a lot more actually. Too many people have changed to gas to heat there homes.

[TheRealVille]

^
Most likely.
There were a 150 jobs lost this week that i know of.

My life depends on the coal market.
IMHO, if the Repubs keep control of the house in 2014, and barring any dramatic changes, they should, then coal should start booming again next year.

Most people dont realize that after a coal boom, like we had in late 2010, and throughout 2011, there is always a coal bust. This one was just hit specifically hard, and had lasted longer than projected. Most coal companies profit margins were less than budget for 2012 and it took a hit, but ill admit weather had a lot to do with that. Another misconception is more coal goes out during the winter to heat homes, when the fact is more coal is used during the summer time, a lot more actually. Too many people have changed to gas to heat there homes.

:biggrin:


2nd bold: Selling price Vs. mining price?

[RunItUpTheGut]

^
:biggrin:

[crazytaxidriver]

Weather has had a lot to do with it the past few years. In a good winter we don't need to burn as much to heat homes. A/C does use more. But it's still no enough to cut in to the stockpiles.

I work for the justice corporation. I have for 4 years now. At our last layoff we were mining coal at 60 dollars a ton. But we could only sell for 40.

[RunItUpTheGut]

^
Ive seen that in several cases.

Just back in the summer of 2011 coal was around 115-120 a ton if im not mistaken.

[Old School]

Has anyone heard speculation that these job offers are scams?

Alpha said they are not working with Professional Contracting, and the Better Business Bureau confirmed they are investigating Professional Contracting.


http://www.wkyt.com/yourtown/locations/h...?site=full


[url=http://ad.doubleclick.net/click%3Bh%3Dv8/3d9f/3/0/%2a/s%3B268215484%3B0-0%3B1%3B46263085%3B2321-160/600%3B50915482/50886660/1%3B%3B~sscs%3D%3fhttp://www.wsaz.com/closings][/url]
RICHMOND, Va. (AP/WSAZ) -- A coal company with operations in Kentucky, West Virginia and Indiana announced Thursday it is closing mines and reducing coal production by 3 million tons.

Richmond-based, James River Coal says it has idled five underground mines ( Abner Branch, Mine 16, Mine 6A, Mine 31,and Jellico), two preparation plants (BL1 Plant and Burke, and one load-out facility(Sunny Knot). It also has reduced production at three surface mines (Frasure, Buckeye, and Montgomery Creek).

The company says the moves impact about 400 employees and contractors.
http://www.wsaz.com/news/headlines/james...28151.html

[RunItUpTheGut]

James Rivers downsize will hit Hazard hard.

[Hoot Gibson]

James River has always been a well managed company with a top notch work force. The fact that the company is closing mines and seems to be in contraction mode does not bode well for the coal industry.

I wonder if Obama has found a way to take credit for creating the 800 apparently bogus jobs in the OP? Bogus jobs seems to be one of his few areas of expertise.

[crazytaxidriver]

^if what I hear is true then James river won't be the only one hurt. If I remember correctly the got a contract with an India based company to mine 9 or so million to a year. The workload they had wash enough to cover all that so they bought some off of revelation minin I think (don't quote me but I think that's who it was). So with James rivers shutting down that has to mean that they are unable to either fill the order or sell the coal. And that is bad news all around

[TheRealVille]

^if what I hear is true then James river won't be the only one hurt. If I remember correctly the got a contract with an India based company to mine 9 or so million to a year. The workload they had wash enough to cover all that so they bought some off of revelation minin I think (don't quote me but I think that's who it was). So with James rivers shutting down that has to mean that they are unable to either fill the order or sell the coal. And that is bad news all around

That wasn't James River, it was Jim Booth.