[Iredata90]

Some interesting information someone was showing me today. Please check for accuracy. Top five according to Blue Grass Rivals, today. This time of year we have heard a lot about records;

Pikeville 14-5
East Ridge 13-3
Betsy Layne 11-5
Johnson Central 11-6
Allen Central 10-3

But what have they done against teams with winning records, throw out all games played against teams with losing records or teams that have a tie record (8-8_etc).

East Ridge 5-2
Allen Central 4-2
Johnson Central 5-4
Pikeville 5-5
Betsy Layne 3-5

Again please check for accuracy. I was told this was right but have not checked it for myself, again I just thought this was interesting. Wish I had time to see what their records are against winning teams if you take out the 14th and 16th regions.

[Iredata90]

Sorry I should have put the date in the title; 9/4/12 not including tonights games.

[BBN4EVER]

Looks accurate. Drop Johnson Central down to 5-5 and Pikeville up to 6-5 now, though. Also, one of East Ridge's losses came to Belfry - a losing record team of which Pikeville has beaten twice. That being said, ER did beat Pikeville, but we all know they were missing a key player. Next Thursday's game should be fun to watch.

[BBN4EVER]

Actually, Johnson Central is 4-7.

[PHSForever]

One of Allen Central's losses came to Scott, a team with a losing record. I understand the gist of this post, but you also have to factor in quality of opponents. I don't think anyone disagrees that 2 of Pikeville's losses (East Ridge and Allen Central) are to quality opponents. Then they also lost to the top record team in the 12th region (Wayne County), Scott County and Lexington Christian account for the other 2 losses, both have winning records in the tough 11th region. Lex Christian was undefeated heading into the Lafayette tourney this past weekend, before falling to Woodford County (I think it was).

So all in all, Pikeville's losses have been to good teams. East Ridge lost to Paintsville and Belfry, as well as Allen Central. Truly, should have won 2 of those 3 games. Allen central has one loss to a team with a losing record in a so-so region. No one in their right mind thinks that means their record is less than Pikeville or East Ridge. I'm just pointing out that looking at records alone can be misleading, you need to look at all opponents, quality of the teams, etc

As a Pikeville fan, I never want to see them lose, but they have generally lost to very good teams this year, including 4 whom could legitimately be regional champs at the end of the year, and one who can if all falls right in their region (Lex Christian). Interesting discussion, for sure. One other thing can be gleaned from looking at all of this.... Pikeville has played more total games against teams with a winning record.

[BBN4EVER]

Here are the standings for the entire region against winning record teams (as KHSAA would sort them):

1. Allen Central (6-2)
2. Pikeville (6-5)
3. East Ridge (5-2)
4. Johnson Central (4-7)
5. Betsy Layne (3-4)
6. Belfry (3-7)
7. Paintsville (1-1)
8. South Floyd (1-5)
9. Phelps (0-3)
10. Piarist (0-4)
11. Lawrence County (0-5)
11. Pike Central (0-5)
11. Prestonsburg (0-5)
11. Sheldon Clark (0-5)
15. Shelby Valley (0-6)
16. Magoffin County (0-7)

[PHSForever]

Here are the standings for the entire region against winning record teams (as KHSAA would sort them):

1. Allen Central (6-2)
2. Pikeville (6-5)
3. East Ridge (5-2)
4. Johnson Central (4-7)
5. Betsy Layne (3-4)
6. Belfry (3-7)
7. Paintsville (1-1)
8. South Floyd (1-5)
9. Phelps (0-3)
10. Piarist (0-4)
11. Lawrence County (0-5)
11. Pike Central (0-5)
11. Prestonsburg (0-5)
11. Sheldon Clark (0-5)
15. Shelby Valley (0-6)
16. Magoffin County (0-7)

Very interesting, but also not surprising. But for the 9-16 teams in the region to have ZERO wins against any teams with a winning record is discouraging for the region as a whole. Considering the size of some of these schools, you would think they have a deeper student pool to draw from and do better. Volleyball is still growing in this area, it is obvious.

[Iredata90]

How would it look if you took out the 14th and 16th regions games. Both regions seem to be much weaker that ours. Just curious to see how many teams actually are getting out of town and playing winning programs.

[BBN4EVER]

Sounds like you basically want each teams record against winning 15th region teams. I think Belfry should be included because they will most definitely end the season over .500.

1. Allen Central (6-0)
2. Pikeville (5-2)
3. Betsy Layne (3-1)
4. Paintsville (2-1)
5. East Ridge (2-3)
6. Belfry (2-5)
7. Johnson Central (1-4)

The rest of the region is totally winless.

[BBN4EVER]

Correction, East Ridge is 3-3

[BBN4EVER]

But as far as teams getting out of town and playing, I think only Allen Central, Betsy Layne, Johnson Central, Pikeville, and Pike Central have done that so far this season. East Ridge is going out of town later in the year. I think Belfry and South Floyd are keeping it local. Paintsville looks to be going to Ashland later in the year, but it's a really weak field from what I can tell.

[PHSForever]

Sounds like you basically want each teams record against winning 15th region teams. I think Belfry should be included because they will most definitely end the season over .500.

1. Allen Central (6-0)
2. Pikeville (5-2)
3. Betsy Layne (3-1)
4. Paintsville (2-1)
5. East Ridge (2-3)
6. Belfry (2-5)
7. Johnson Central (1-4)

The rest of the region is totally winless.

Actually, basically anyone BUT the 14th and 16th, based on how I'm understanding Iredata. A good starting point is to look at the thread I posted about 15th region teams at the Thoroughbred Smash this past weekend. Personally, Letcher Central is the only 14th region team I consider a serious player right now. And out of the 16th, I haven't seen Rowan or Greenup, Ashland is a middle of the pack team in the 15th if they were here.

[Panther14]

Pikeville is now 6-2 and Paintsville is 2-2 after the game tonight. What a game? Panthers looked really good! Love watching those girls! Way to go Lady Panthers!!

[BBN4EVER]

I think a more effective way of ranking the teams would be putting them in to tiers rather than 1-2-3-4-5, etc. If it was up to me, I'd say:

(alphabetical order)
Tier 1: Allen Central
Tier 2: Betsy Layne, East Ridge, Pikeville
Tier 3: Belfry, Johnson Central, Paintsville, South Floyd
Tier 4: Magoffin County, Piarist, Pike Central, Shelby Valley
Tier 5: Lawrence County, Phelps, Prestonsburg, Sheldon Clark

What's most impressive about Allen Central is that they're 4-0 against TIER TWO teams. They belong to a tier unto themselves. Betsy Layne's only two losses in the region have come at the hands of Allen Central, but they haven't played East Ridge, Pikeville, or Paintsville yet - it will be interesting to see how they stack up against those teams. East Ridge does have a win against a Tier 2 team in Pikeville, but have also lost two games to Tier 3 teams (Belfry and Paintsville). Pikeville's two losses came to Allen Central and East Ridge - but is also 6-0 against Tier 3 teams, which I have to admit is pretty impressive.

I know there has been some conversation about how teams are performing outside of the region, but ultimately, I think every team's goal is to win region. The only teams you have to worry about in winning a region championship are the teams in your region. Sure it's nice to be able to compete at the state level, but anyone who knows this sport in this state knows it is practically impossible for our region to do that on a serious level. 15th region teams had NEVER won a game at the state tournament until last year when Allen Central was able to take down Corbin. Lucky for us, we received a great draw and got the 13th. Corbin wouldn't have even been a top 5 team in the 15th region last year. We have the 4th this year, which is POSSIBLE for our region to maybe take a game from, but if we are fortunate enough to make the 2nd round again, we have the 11th region (Henry Clay, Lafayette, etc.)... It's not happening.

In the 33 year history of volleyball in the state, the only schools to have ever won a state championship have been all-girls private schools from Louisville or the Cincy area. It wasn't until just last year that a public school had EVER advanced to the championship game, and the only reason that occurred is because the draw was perfect for them (didn't face a private school until Assumption in the final). 14 of the last 17 state championships have been claimed by Assumption, and they are currently ranked 2nd in the nation by MaxPreps. So it makes no difference if schools from our region can compete on a state level, in my opinion... state championships are currently totally out of reach for any team from our region... Even Allen Central would be lucky to put up double digits in any set against teams like Assumption, Mercy, Notre Dame, St. Henry, Sacred Heart, etc. They are just simply on a completely different level.

I would LOVE to see a restructuring of the postseason. Its very unfortunate the way it is currently set up for our region. In my opinion, some of the best, if not the very best, public school Class A volleyball can be found in the 15th region. I feel like we would have a chance to be able to claim state titles if volleyball was broken in to classes the way football and track & field are.

[Iredata90]

I will have to agree with pretty much everything that you have posted. I would be curious to see what your top 8 looked like. I am seeing it something like this;
Allen Central (Has really been impressive all year, even competitive when playing down state)
East Ridge (East Ridge seems to have it back, we will see what happens at Pikeville Thursday)
Pikeville (this could change after Thursday's game)
Betsy Layne (a big question in my mind until they play the teams you talked about earlier)
Johnson Central (They played Pikeville close both times, just seems to need that one extra something)
Paintsville (solid with solid coaching just not sure that they are talented enough)
South Floyd (OMO a mystery but not yet able to compete with the top three or four)
Belfry (I have said this before and been hammered before, but Belfry IMO is in a rebuilding year, not sure if it is coaching, team chemistry or what.)

Just my opinions what do you think?

[PHSForever]

I think a more effective way of ranking the teams would be putting them in to tiers rather than 1-2-3-4-5, etc. If it was up to me, I'd say:

(alphabetical order)
Tier 1: Allen Central
Tier 2: Betsy Layne, East Ridge, Pikeville
Tier 3: Belfry, Johnson Central, Paintsville, South Floyd
Tier 4: Magoffin County, Piarist, Pike Central, Shelby Valley
Tier 5: Lawrence County, Phelps, Prestonsburg, Sheldon Clark

What's most impressive about Allen Central is that they're 4-0 against TIER TWO teams. They belong to a tier unto themselves. Betsy Layne's only two losses in the region have come at the hands of Allen Central, but they haven't played East Ridge, Pikeville, or Paintsville yet - it will be interesting to see how they stack up against those teams. East Ridge does have a win against a Tier 2 team in Pikeville, but have also lost two games to Tier 3 teams (Belfry and Paintsville). Pikeville's two losses came to Allen Central and East Ridge - but is also 6-0 against Tier 3 teams, which I have to admit is pretty impressive.

I know there has been some conversation about how teams are performing outside of the region, but ultimately, I think every team's goal is to win region. The only teams you have to worry about in winning a region championship are the teams in your region. Sure it's nice to be able to compete at the state level, but anyone who knows this sport in this state knows it is practically impossible for our region to do that on a serious level. 15th region teams had NEVER won a game at the state tournament until last year when Allen Central was able to take down Corbin. Lucky for us, we received a great draw and got the 13th. Corbin wouldn't have even been a top 5 team in the 15th region last year. We have the 4th this year, which is POSSIBLE for our region to maybe take a game from, but if we are fortunate enough to make the 2nd round again, we have the 11th region (Henry Clay, Lafayette, etc.)... It's not happening.

In the 33 year history of volleyball in the state, the only schools to have ever won a state championship have been all-girls private schools from Louisville or the Cincy area. It wasn't until just last year that a public school had EVER advanced to the championship game, and the only reason that occurred is because the draw was perfect for them (didn't face a private school until Assumption in the final). 14 of the last 17 state championships have been claimed by Assumption, and they are currently ranked 2nd in the nation by MaxPreps. So it makes no difference if schools from our region can compete on a state level, in my opinion... state championships are currently totally out of reach for any team from our region... Even Allen Central would be lucky to put up double digits in any set against teams like Assumption, Mercy, Notre Dame, St. Henry, Sacred Heart, etc. They are just simply on a completely different level.

I would LOVE to see a restructuring of the postseason. Its very unfortunate the way it is currently set up for our region. In my opinion, some of the best, if not the very best, public school Class A volleyball can be found in the 15th region. I feel like we would have a chance to be able to claim state titles if volleyball was broken in to classes the way football and track & field are.

Completely agree with your post except one thing. I happen to think playing games against higher competition speeds up (or slows down, really) the game for them. When you've faced, for example, a Henry Clay, a Johnson Central, Betys Layne, even East Ridge and Allen Central isn't as "scary" for want of a better term. Do I think you need to load up on those? No. But need to play enough to better yourselves. I happen to think it will prepare them for the 15th region better. Just have to find that balance.

[BBN4EVER]

Yeah, I would pretty much agree with that. I'd go with

1. Allen Central
2. East Ridge/Pikeville (whoever wins Thu. would be my #2 and the loser my #3)
4. Betsy Layne
5. Paintsville (I put them ahead of Johnson Central, mainly because they were able to beat East Ridge, and JC is 0-2 against them)
6. Johnson Central
7. South Floyd
8. Belfry (no doubt Belfry is not the team they once were, but I think it's more of an unstoppable downward slope rather than rebuilding... the good news is, they have a LONG way to go to drop to #9, IMO)


Truthfully, any one of these eight could get hot and win region this year, but my money would be on one of the top 4. Allen Central has to be the favorite.

Allen Central plays three seniors and two juniors (5 upperclassmen), East Ridge plays three seniors and three juniors (6 upperclassmen), Betsy Layne plays one senior and three juniors (4 upperclassmen).... Pikeville plays no seniors and one junior (one upperclassman)... that is what absolutely blows my mind about that Pikeville team. The fact that they are undoubtedly a top four team this year and going to have the exact same team returning next year, and all but one back the following year... really scary stuff. I'm afraid East Ridge's only chance for a while at a region title will be this year or next year. It's going to be really tough this year with Allen Central - then they lose their two setters and libero after this year while Pikeville loses nobody. Then the year after, East Ridge will lose their all-state middle and both outsides, while Pikeville will only lose one outside (granted, a very good outside). My gut tells me it's region title or bust for East Ridge this year.

[PHSForever]

Yeah, I would pretty much agree with that. I'd go with

1. Allen Central
2. East Ridge/Pikeville (whoever wins Thu. would be my #2 and the loser my #3)
4. Betsy Layne
5. Paintsville (I put them ahead of Johnson Central, mainly because they were able to beat East Ridge, and JC is 0-2 against them)
6. Johnson Central
7. South Floyd
8. Belfry (no doubt Belfry is not the team they once were, but I think it's more of an unstoppable downward slope rather than rebuilding... the good news is, they have a LONG way to go to drop to #9, IMO)


Truthfully, any one of these eight could get hot and win region this year, but my money would be on one of the top 4. Allen Central has to be the favorite.

Allen Central plays three seniors and two juniors (5 upperclassmen), East Ridge plays three seniors and three juniors (6 upperclassmen), Betsy Layne plays one senior and three juniors (4 upperclassmen).... Pikeville plays no seniors and one junior (one upperclassman)... that is what absolutely blows my mind about that Pikeville team. The fact that they are undoubtedly a top four team this year and going to have the exact same team returning next year, and all but one back the following year... really scary stuff. I'm afraid East Ridge's only chance for a while at a region title will be this year or next year. It's going to be really tough this year with Allen Central - then they lose their two setters and libero after this year while Pikeville loses nobody. Then the year after, East Ridge will lose their all-state middle and both outsides, while Pikeville will only lose one outside (granted, a very good outside). My gut tells me it's region title or bust for East Ridge this year.

You may very well be right. To be honest, based on what i have seen, I truly think the only teams that can really get hot and even possibly make a run at Allen Central are East Ridge, Pikeville and Paintsville. BUT I haven't seen Betsy Layne play this year, so they could be the POTENTIAL 4th challenger. I'm afraid that South Floyd and Belfry are teams that can get hot and only hang around with the second tier you mention, really. I don't mean that as an insult, because they DO have some good players on those teams. South Floyd, for example, has shown, in the games I've watched them play (not just against Pikeville) practically ZERO interest in going after loose balls. I quit keeping count in one game of how many balls they shanked and everyone just stood there watching it instead of going after it. Spend WAY too much time standing around waiting for one or two other players to make a play.

Shelby Valley has good defense, and they hustle, but what kills them is almost all of their set attacks come from the back. They have some good servers, but half the time they don't know where the ball is going to go when they serve it. Their lack of accuracy KILLS their chances of moving into the 3rd tier.

[bobcatfan8]

AC is beatable!! Watched them
Several times nothing impressive to me!!!

[PHSForever]

AC is beatable!! Watched them
Several times nothing impressive to me!!!

Yes, they are beatable. I've seen them several times this year as well. But the fact remains, until someone DOES beat them here in the 15th, they are "Queens of the hills". When they are "on", they're an impressive team to watch. They've struggled some this year compared to past years (dropping sets they shouldn't, etc), but the competition is getting better year by year here in the 15th as well, so that is to be expected because it means now, there are nights when they actually have to fight for some points versus years past when they only lost points (against some teams) because of mistakes on their own part. So if you're not "impressed", I'm surprised... They are definitely an impressive team, don't let one or two sets of a match shade your impression. Still a scary good team.

[Panther14]

Betsy Layne put up a fight against Allen Central in the All A. I agree, they can beat. A lot of good players but they just have that intimidation factor going for them right now in our region!

[Iredata90]

Over the last ten games;
Allen Central 10-0
East Ridge 8-2
Betsy Layne 8-2
Paintsville 7-3
Pikeville 5-5
Johnson Central 5-5
Belfry 3-7

[Iredata90]

Over the last ten games;
Allen Central 10-0
East Ridge 8-2
Betsy Layne 8-2
Paintsville 7-3
Pikeville 5-5
Johnson Central 5-5
Belfry 3-7

correction Belfry 4-6

[left tacckel #65]

come tourney time I don't believe ER will be intimidated by anyone. It will be a war between ER and AC...

[Iredata90]

East Ridge and Allen Central are the favorites, but Pikeville, Betsy Layne, Johnson Central and Paintsville could pull the upset if the two top teams are not focused, it’s happened before. Betsy Layne gave Allen Central all they could handle, Johnson Central every time I have seen them play you just know that they will cut loose and just dominate and then they seem to fall apart. Paintsville has some of the most talented coaches around, and a very solid and fundamentally sound team, but I am not sure the talent is there this year. Pikeville has one of the most talented teams in the region from top to bottom when it comes to the players. Then who knows maybe one of the other teams just might slip in and knock someone out. One thing that you can count on at tournament time is there is no guarantees that is why they play the games!

[BBN4EVER]

I would agree on your take on AC, ER, JC, and BL. However, I would disagree with your view on Paintsville and Pikeville. I do think Paintsville has a good coach and I have absolutely nothing against her, but based on the times I've seen them play, I wouldn't consider them to be very fundamentally sound. They have two exceptionally talented players (the setter and outside), but the rest, I believe, are learning. You can see major struggles in serve receive and a breakdown when setter gets first ball for them. Also, all hitting is weak outside of their go-to hitter. Pikeville I agree with you is talented, but not sure I would rank them as "one of the most talented" teams yet. I would venture to say AC, ER, JC, BL, and possibly even Belfry is more talented in terms of just pure and basic natural ability. But Pikeville tends to play with a LOT of passion (at least the two times I've seen them - champions classic and the reg season ER v. Pikeville game).

[bobcatfan8]

When BL comes to play they are hard to handle!!! They have give AC all they can handle and then some, yes they lost to them but is has been by 2 points in several sets!! Now if BL does not come to play they get beat with this team is varies from set to set they will be on fire and win a set and then come out for the next one and look like a totally different team!! BL weakness is there back line 4 players can not win a game it takes 6 and if BL can tweak their weakness they will be a top contender when it comes tournament time!!! They have beaten paintsville, JC, Belfry, and South Floyd and taken AC to 5 sets!!! In my opinion Awesome team and with adjustments they could be your region champs!!!

[Iredata90]

I would agree on your take on AC, ER, JC, and BL. However, I would disagree with your view on Paintsville and Pikeville. I do think Paintsville has a good coach and I have absolutely nothing against her, but based on the times I've seen them play, I wouldn't consider them to be very fundamentally sound. They have two exceptionally talented players (the setter and outside), but the rest, I believe, are learning. You can see major struggles in serve receive and a breakdown when setter gets first ball for them. Also, all hitting is weak outside of their go-to hitter. Pikeville I agree with you is talented, but not sure I would rank them as "one of the most talented" teams yet. I would venture to say AC, ER, JC, BL, and possibly even Belfry is more talented in terms of just pure and basic natural ability. But Pikeville tends to play with a LOT of passion (at least the two times I've seen them - champions classic and the reg season ER v. Pikeville game).

I have been impressed with Paintsville's coaches the last two years I have seen them play. You are correct as they have two main players, but I really like what I see out of their coaches. From where they were just three years ago I am impressed as they seem to be getting better with the talent they have and it is showing. Pikeville has as much talent as any team in the region IMO, but they do have some things going on internally that I feel is holding the back, playing with passion as you say is not one of them.

[Iredata90]

When BL comes to play they are hard to handle!!! They have give AC all they can handle and then some, yes they lost to them but is has been by 2 points in several sets!! Now if BL does not come to play they get beat with this team is varies from set to set they will be on fire and win a set and then come out for the next one and look like a totally different team!! BL weakness is there back line 4 players can not win a game it takes 6 and if BL can tweak their weakness they will be a top contender when it comes tournament time!!! They have beaten paintsville, JC, Belfry, and South Floyd and taken AC to 5 sets!!! In my opinion Awesome team and with adjustments they could be your region champs!!!

I have not really gotten to set down and see Betsy Layne play this year, but I have followed them the KHSAA site. I will hold my opinion on them till after I see them play Betsy Layne Saturday, I was really looking forward to the Pikeville-Allen Central matchup also, but the first game was canceled and rescheduled for Monday and now that game has also been also canceled. Pikeville should have fresh legs as they have not really played since their loss to East Ridge. They did play Phelps Monday, but way to much talent for Phelps.

[BBN4EVER]

Holding them back? Holding them back from what exactly? Pikeville is at least the 4th best team in the region, possibly 3rd (we'll see Saturday). They are going to shatter their school record for wins in a season. The only teams in region that have beaten them are the class of the region (AC and ER). All of this with a roster comprised of ONE upperclassmen and nearly half the girls they play this year, to my knowledge, had no varsity experience coming in to this season. Your criticisms of whatever it is at Pikeville is very obviously biased for some reason. You seem to be the only one on here that has something against the team. I'm sure there are other critics out there, I would suggest just keeping your conversations about Pikeville volleyball with them because having to read it on BGR all the time is getting a little old. Pikeville is a good team, Iredata90... Get over it. Maybe not the very best in the region (which I have to assume are your standards), but they are very good.

Here I am saying all this and I am an EAST RIDGE guy for crying out loud!