[vundy33]

1 and 2.. Yeah any order you want.. But I like your #3 and 4 but I hate your #5... just like this season Rodgers was a system thing, Big Ben's rings are a system thing

Are you seriously trying to say that Manning's isn't "a system thing"?! He's in the biggest, most complex system of them all!

That hardly matters though..not just any QB could come into any of those players shoes and do what they do because it's a "system". Skill matters much, much more.

[vundy33]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Where was that talent at this year???????????

Second best player on ANY of Peyton's team is a DE (Freeney) that can just pass rush

Welker better then Reggie Wayne so don't even try it.....
Gronk better then Clark so don't even try it....



Brady had maybe one of the best Def's in the league when he won the super bowls...........


And lets not forget he had Randy Moss- one of the greatest WR's on all-time

lol...you sure don't remember much if you couldn't even mention the 2nd best Colt of all-time, Marvin Harrison. You realize that most of the players you mention weren't even there in the years I'm talking about, right?

You're so biased I can smell it through the computer man...just admit it..

[LWC]

I have never liked used Championships as the barometer to how incredible of a player someone is.
Are Trent Dilfer, Big Ben, Jeff Hostetler, Brad Johnson or Joe Namath better than:
Dan Marino- 420 TDs, 61,361 YDs
Jim Kelly 237 TDs, 35,467 YDs
Dan Fouts 254 TDs, 43,040 YDs
Warren Moon- 291 TDs, 49,325 YDs
NO!

I would say that all of them are better than Big Ben and he has multiple rings. Two or three of those players have either a 1-1 TD-INT ratio OR WORSE.

We do not judge any other position by championships. Why QB's? We do not say that Steve Largent
OJ Simpson
Barry Sanders 99 TDs, 15,269 YDs
Earl Campbell- 74 TDs, 9,407 YDs
Anthony Munoz, Toni Boselli and other O-Linemen like him
Cris Carter- 130 TDs, 13,899 YDs

[vundy33]

Who's judging by championships?! Can you read man?! None of us are solely using championships or post-season success to judge anyone, we're using that on top of EVERYTHING ELSE. Those guys you named are not better than some of the all-time greats with no championships because everything else by far outweighs those championships! But with Manning and Brady, it doesn't, I would say it's nearly equal. Brady performs great under pressure, Manning doesn't. Brady has 3 championships to Manning's 1. Therefore, with everything else nearly tied in my opinion, that gives Brady the edge.

QB's are judged differently because they are the heart and soul of a team, without at least a good one, you're going nowhere. They are held to a different standard. Hell, championships don't even hold near as much weight for me as the other categories I use to judge QB's...Brady's play under a crazy amount of pressure and his multiple championship rings gives him the edge for me, of course I'm not judging a player's worth by championships alone. What's so hard to understand about that?

[ekff]

lol...you sure don't remember much if you couldn't even mention the 2nd best Colt of all-time, Marvin Harrison. You realize that most of the players you mention weren't even there in the years I'm talking about, right?

You're so biased I can smell it through the computer man...just admit it..

How in the hell am I being "biased" I said Manning or Brady 1A 1B...

You people are just crazy. Manning hasn't had as much help as you all think. Marvin was a pretty good player but lets be real he was never a top 5 WR.. Every time he got the ball he fell to the ground. I think this year shows how good Manning's team really is... I swear to god I hope the Colts keep Manning just so he can come back and win 10-12 games next season. And since we're talking about "help" Manning has never had a good Def. teams have ran all over the Colts Def for the last 6 or 7 years.

[WALL2WALL]

Tom Brady

[WALL2WALL]

It's no question, Tom Brady...but Manning is not far behind and IMO Big Ben is growing fast on him.

Totally agree. 2 rings, and since Ben's rookie year he has had more 4th quarter game winning drives in the NFL. The man is not only called Big Ben just because his size, the man plays big in big games.

Brady is a top 5 QB of all-time, and most defiantly the best of this era.

[vundy33]

How in the hell am I being "biased" I said Manning or Brady 1A 1B...

You people are just crazy. Manning hasn't had as much help as you all think. Marvin was a pretty good player but lets be real he was never a top 5 WR.. Every time he got the ball he fell to the ground. I think this year shows how good Manning's team really is... I swear to god I hope the Colts keep Manning just so he can come back and win 10-12 games next season. And since we're talking about "help" Manning has never had a good Def. teams have ran all over the Colts Def for the last 6 or 7 years.

lol...

[Jarons]

How in the hell am I being "biased" I said Manning or Brady 1A 1B...

You people are just crazy. Manning hasn't had as much help as you all think. Marvin was a pretty good player but lets be real he was never a top 5 WR.. Every time he got the ball he fell to the ground. I think this year shows how good Manning's team really is... I swear to god I hope the Colts keep Manning just so he can come back and win 10-12 games next season. And since we're talking about "help" Manning has never had a good Def. teams have ran all over the Colts Def for the last 6 or 7 years.

Marvin is a future HOFer. Manning also had Marshall Faulk, HOF, E. James best all around RB in the NFL until he got lazy. Reggie Wayne in his prime would have been a #1 receiver on most teams in the NFL. Manning also had a great line for about 5-6 years.

[Aslan]

How many games did the Colts win last season? How many did they win this season? Isn't that an 7-8 win drop?

Even Manning and Brady have not been able to repeat a perfect regular season, so Cassel cannot be expected to be perfect. You say did not make the playoffs, while true, is a little skewed. How many teams win 11 games and do not make the playoffs? The last two seasons an 8-8 team and a 7-9 team made the playoffs. Almost any season a team with 11 wins, gets in. He played well enough to get in.

In most sports, 5 wins is not that big a difference.
In football, with just 16 regular season games, it's huge. A win or two drop off in the NFL is huge. It makes the difference between being the wildcard and going on a SB run, like the Packers last year, and potentially Giants this year. Or Sitting at the house watching. Five less wins usually means you have a top pick and need to reevaluate your situation.
Going from undefeated, in the SB, to not even making the playoffs is a big drop off. And it's because Cassel was QB, not Brady.

[Aslan]

Championships matter. If you think they don't, you think that because the player you're partial to has none or few championships. Go ahead and deny it, but it's the truth and we all know it. The point of the game is to win when it counts. If you don't do that, how in the world can you be considered better than another guy that is as close to equal as it gets in every other category?

You guys are acting like I am judging QB's or anyone else by only championships...of course I'm not, but I take it into account. And when you take the championships into account with how close they are in skill, Brady wins. He made the plays to get past Manning and the Colts and win those Superbowls...Manning hasn't. Saying championships don't matter when talking about the greatest QB of all-time is as dumb as saying only championships matter...

I don't know how anyone could think Manning is better. "The best regular season QB" is much better of an award than I thought it'd be, I guess..

The voice of reason, thank you.
And no it's not based solely on championships(whoever said that). But leading your team and making key plays in championship runs is a huge part of your legacy. After all, that's the objective of any sport.
And throwing Trent Dilfer out there is the weakest argument I've ever heard. He had one of the best defenses in NFL history packing him. I know the argument you was trying to make, but you're reaching, BIG TIME.

[ekff]

Marvin is a future HOFer. Manning also had Marshall Faulk, HOF, E. James best all around RB in the NFL until he got lazy. Reggie Wayne in his prime would have been a #1 receiver on most teams in the NFL. Manning also had a great line for about 5-6 years.

First off, did you ever watch E. James, he wasn't a top RB. What happen when he left Indy? The guy fell off the face of the earth. Manning didn't have a good Marshall Faulk like you all think and Manning was young when Faulk was there.
Manning made Marvin a HOF...
Reggie Wayne wouldn't be #1 on: Lions, Texans, Cardinals, Patriots, Falcons, Dolphins, Giants, Rams, Packers, and maybe even Bengals..

Marvin and Reggie both are pretty good WR's but come on, they're small and can't break tackles. They aren't going to out jump people or anything. Manning has to throw a good ball for them to even catch it... Big physical WR bell QBs out a lot and Manning has never had that.

[Jarons]

First off, did you ever watch E. James, he wasn't a top RB. What happen when he left Indy? The guy fell off the face of the earth. Manning didn't have a good Marshall Faulk like you all think and Manning was young when Faulk was there.
Manning made Marvin a HOF...
Reggie Wayne wouldn't be #1 on: Lions, Texans, Cardinals, Patriots, Falcons, Dolphins, Giants, Rams, Packers, and maybe even Bengals..

Marvin and Reggie both are pretty good WR's but come on, they're small and can't break tackles. They aren't going to out jump people or anything. Manning has to throw a good ball for them to even catch it... Big physical WR bell QBs out a lot and Manning has never had that.

Now he would not. In his prime he was one of the leagues top recievers.
E. James got lazy after his big contract.
How can you say Faulk was not good when he was with the Colts? I remember the Colts getting ripped for trading him and getting E. James. Faulk was one of the leagues best until the end of his career.
Maybe Marvin made Manning HOF:biggrin:

Look Manning is a great QB, top 10 all time. To say he never had talent is crazy. I admit there is not much support right now in Indy. Manning has had more talent around him than you like to admit.

[ekff]

Now he would not. In his prime he was one of the leagues top recievers.
E. James got lazy after his big contract.
How can you say Faulk was not good when he was with the Colts? I remember the Colts getting ripped for trading him and getting E. James. Faulk was one of the leagues best until the end of his career.
Maybe Marvin made Manning HOF:biggrin:

Look Manning is a great QB, top 10 all time. To say he never had talent is crazy. I admit there is not much support right now in Indy. Manning has had more talent around him than you like to admit.

I never said he didn't have talent around him... Everyone has to have talent around them to win a super bowl, but alot of people have had more talent around them.


Funniest thing I've ever heard.... Marvin made Manning HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.... Thats a good one.