[Wildcat18]

Do you understand that there are twice as many school districts not in the KYMSFA as there are in it? The main issue here was school districts were not following requirements that KDE already had in place at the lower levels before this was put through, the issue was KDE didnt have any way to enforce schools to follow these requirements. Now they do. You would be surprised at how many school districts I have met with that have said, we cant/choose not to do these things to save $$$ or just the hassell.

I now understand your response to my comment you highlighted in bold. Would you care to respond to the rest of my post? My ending comments answer your question directed to Belfry0304. It's not fair to those students CURRENTLY IN MIDDLE SCHOOL who can not be retained for next year because the deadline for the school district has passed PRIOR to the decision to implement these rules for the 2014-15 school year. Students who had plans to do so in the next year or two will be screwed by this decision. Once again, I'm not against the rule. It's a timing issue for me. There should be a waiting period to give those a chance if they so choose. Logically, the rules should have been put into effect when this years 5th graders were in 8th grade.

[BIG TONY]

I now understand your response to my comment you highlighted in bold. Would you care to respond to the rest of my post? My ending comments answer your question directed to Belfry0304. It's not fair to those students CURRENTLY IN MIDDLE SCHOOL who can not be retained for next year because the deadline for the school district has passed PRIOR to the decision to implement these rules for the 2014-15 school year. Students who had plans to do so in the next year or two will be screwed by this decision. Once again, I'm not against the rule. It's a timing issue for me. There should be a waiting period to give those a chance if they so choose. Logically, the rules should have been put into effect when this years 5th graders were in 8th grade.

Please refer to my earlier post. The KHSMSAA and KDE should never be associated with "logically".

[sting7]

What about 7v7 in football? Will this be cancelled due to not being allowed in high school.

[khsgamenight]

One of the questions I have concerning the KHSAA takeover of MS Athletics is this. How long will it be before the High School transfer rules are applied to MS Athletes? After reading the new provisions regarding MS Athletics, I did not see that issue addressed. Does anyone know if there are any plans to apply the transfer rule to MS Athletes?

[Belfry0304]

Why do you feel your school is getting punished? If your district is already following all of the safety standards, than you have nothing to worry about.

Because of these PLAYER SAFETY rules, kids won't have the option to play as a holdback which should be a player choice, therefore won't want to take a year off so will more likely graduate at 17. Which is something I absolutely wouldn't recommend to anyone. It just seems odd they'd want to get involved for player safety and then make a hold back rule. Seems to me like they'd only do that, like high school, so teams wouldn't have a championship advantage (which in my opinion, middle school championships are cool but aren't that big of a deal, especially when every kid has the option to hold back at every school) So I wouldn't be surprised if they get involved with the state playoff and try to make money.

It's a punishment to have to deal with the morons from the KH$AA alone.

[footballfever]

If holding back is SO student/child won't graduate to young then seems like holding back, working on academics, lifting weight and not playing would still be done.
Corbin has held kids back for many many years but the school rule has always been they couldn't participate during holdback year.
KHSAA has also always had the rule students could not participate during holdback year.

[khsgamenight]

I'm not so sure the new rule on holdbacks in MS will make that much of a difference. Coaches will get the word out to parents and they will adjust accordingly. The only change that will be forthcoming is that students will now start repeating 5th grade instead of 6th, 7th or 8th.

Also, there needs to be some clarification on the rule. With the rule taking effect during the 2014-15 school year, does that mean students will be able to stay back next year and participate during the 2014-15 season and students that stay back during the 2014-15 year will be accountable under this rule? Or, is this the last year that students will be able to repeat a grade and be eligible the following school year?

Also, Not all Middle Schools in Kentucky consist of 6th - 8th grade. For the school systems that do not include 6th grade in MS Sports, I'm not sure this will be an issue for students repeating the 6th grade since they do not compete at the MS level.

[Belfry0304]

I'm not so sure the new rule on holdbacks in MS will make that much of a difference. Coaches will get the word out to parents and they will adjust accordingly. The only change that will be forthcoming is that students will now start repeating 5th grade instead of 6th, 7th or 8th.

Also, there needs to be some clarification on the rule. With the rule taking effect during the 2014-15 school year, does that mean students will be able to stay back next year and participate during the 2014-15 season and students that stay back during the 2014-15 year will be accountable under this rule? Or, is this the last year that students will be able to repeat a grade and be eligible the following school year?

Also, Not all Middle Schools in Kentucky consist of 6th - 8th grade. For the school systems that do not include 6th grade in MS Sports, I'm not sure this will be an issue for students repeating the 6th grade since they do not compete at the MS level.

Obviously there are numerous advantages to staying back, while the kids want to stay back for sports the adults are more inclined to it because the advantages of it academically and in maturity. What kid is going to want to stay back, because Daddy says it'll help him later, and not play? Not a single one... and I can count on one hand the number of kids who will agree to stay behind a grade at 10 years old. I agree with not allowing students to hold back in high school but not in middle school.

[khsgamenight]

Obviously there are numerous advantages to staying back, while the kids want to stay back for sports the adults are more inclined to it because the advantages of it academically and in maturity. What kid is going to want to stay back, because Daddy says it'll help him later, and not play? Not a single one... and I can count on one hand the number of kids who will agree to stay behind a grade at 10 years old. I agree with not allowing students to hold back in high school but not in middle school.

You are probably right. However, that is where good parenting steps in. At the age of 10, it shouldn't really matter what the child wants to do. The child will do what the parent tells them they are going to do. (At least that's the way it works at my house)

[Belfry0304]

You are probably right. However, that is where good parenting steps in. At the age of 10, it shouldn't really matter what the child wants to do. The child will do what the parent tells them they are going to do. (At least that's the way it works at my house)

and then your kid resents you for a year and hates his life... why bother when you could just get them to hold back in 7th or 8th grade when they're up for it as well?

[plantmanky]

I now understand your response to my comment you highlighted in bold. Would you care to respond to the rest of my post? My ending comments answer your question directed to Belfry0304. It's not fair to those students CURRENTLY IN MIDDLE SCHOOL who can not be retained for next year because the deadline for the school district has passed PRIOR to the decision to implement these rules for the 2014-15 school year. Students who had plans to do so in the next year or two will be screwed by this decision. Once again, I'm not against the rule. It's a timing issue for me. There should be a waiting period to give those a chance if they so choose. Logically, the rules should have been put into effect when this years 5th graders were in 8th grade.

The rest of your post, unless I missed something, was about holdbacks. I do not think holdbacks should be allowed period. You think they should, what is to discuss?

[Wildcat18]

The rest of your post, unless I missed something, was about holdbacks. I do not think holdbacks should be allowed period. You think they should, what is to discuss?

You definitely missed something. I am obviously pro-holdbacks. However, when the rule goes into effect, it will be followed regardless of your opinion or mine. The problem lies with those currently enrolled in the 6th and 7th grade who may have been planning to hold back in their upcoming 7th or 8th grade year. The deadline for turning in the paperwork for those students/families has already passed prior to the decision to implement a holdback rule for the 2014-15 season. It is too late to for them to be retained for this next school year. If they had known sooner that this rule would be put into place for the 14-15 school year, they would have started the process and done it this coming year. The rule is not the problem. The fact that the rule was put in without enough notice for those select few to have the opportunity to do it this next school year is the problem.

[plantmanky]

You definitely missed something. I am obviously pro-holdbacks. However, when the rule goes into effect, it will be followed regardless of your opinion or mine. The problem lies with those currently enrolled in the 6th and 7th grade who may have been planning to hold back in their upcoming 7th or 8th grade year. The deadline for turning in the paperwork for those students/families has already passed prior to the decision to implement a holdback rule for the 2014-15 season. It is too late to for them to be retained for this next school year. If they had known sooner that this rule would be put into place for the 14-15 school year, they would have started the process and done it this coming year. The rule is not the problem. The fact that the rule was put in without enough notice for those select few to have the opportunity to do it this next school year is the problem.

Understand your point and I see where your coming from, and perhaps its a valid point. KDE has been reviewing MS athletics with its own committee since 2011, then in 2012 the HCR 155 task force was created to review ms athletics as well. While the regulation was just voted on and approved earlier this month, it has been in discussion for a while now.

[ky playmaker]

We knew this was probably coming since last year. Alot of counties already have the rule that you cant play your holdback year. Laurel co has had it for several years now. From my understanding right now all the khsaa is concerned with is the holdback rule state wide and the safety aspects cpr training, heat index etc. and the number of games some of these kids are playing. I see in the future a kid in the 6th grade will not be able to play 6th 7th and 8th grade all in the same nite. Laurel co already has that rule. You can only play one grade. You can play up but just in that grade. I aint sure if khsaa can make that rule since freshman sometimes play a freshman game jv game and a few min in a varsity game. It will be interesting to see where it goes.

[MeangreeN]

This is my take on the khsaa oversight of MS. Some counties have been following HS rules on coaching credentials, forms, training, and holdback rules anyway, this is just a way (in thier collective mind) to even the playing field, and apply safety precautions for the MS schools, athletes, and coaches. I do agree with a point in an earlier post that there should be a couple years for everyone to get up to speed on the changes, to give programs time to change and parents to make decisions. My opinion on the holdback rules are this, my son is one who was facing a year to set out because we are holding him back for academics, but if you as a parent weigh all options and make a decision to holdback for the right reason(s), sports should be a small varible in the decision, IMO academics and well being should top reason(s).

[Wildcat18]

This is my take on the khsaa oversight of MS. Some counties have been following HS rules on coaching credentials, forms, training, and holdback rules anyway, this is just a way (in thier collective mind) to even the playing field, and apply safety precautions for the MS schools, athletes, and coaches. I do agree with a point in an earlier post that there should be a couple years for everyone to get up to speed on the changes, to give programs time to change and parents to make decisions. My opinion on the holdback rules are this, my son is one who was facing a year to set out because we are holding him back for academics, but if you as a parent weigh all options and make a decision to holdback for the right reason(s), sports should be a small varible in the decision, IMO academics and well being should top reason(s).

Agree 100%.

[Cardfan1]

Like or lump it. I know one thing khsaa won't do is look on this board for advice no matter how valid the argument. I guess I look to uniformity in all sports. I know there are kids in some program aren't getting the care they should. Maybe this will validate middle school sports across the state. Hey I have plenty of gripes too, but it is what it is.

[Mcats10]

Will the KYMSFA still have playoffs, All Kentucky teams, and all star weekend with Khsaa taking over? Last year was our first time at one of those events, and it was great for the kids.

[KMSFA2]

@Mcats10 - yes we have the same plans for this season as we always have. No changes.

[khsgamenight]

Glad to know that The KMSFA will still be in charge of the State Tournament. They do an amazing job with the event!!

[Allsports#1]

Middle school athletics would be overseen for the first time by the Kentucky High School Athletic Association under a proposed regulation approved by the state board of education and now under review by lawmakers.

The lack of statewide oversight over middle school athletics in Kentucky has led to problems that include some schools playing more games during a season than is considered safe, and parents having students repeat a grade solely for athletic reasons, according to KHSAA Commissioner Julian Tackett.

However, Tackett said in an interview that the agency would deal with middle schools using a different model than it uses for high schools. Instead of governing middle schools, the KHSAA would provide staff and coordination for a 21-member regionally balanced committee composed mostly of educators who have expertise in middle school athletics.

The regulation, approved by the state board of education in April, sets some fundamental guidelines, but many specific rules would be decided by the middle school committee and local school districts.

The regulation was filed with the Legislative Research Commission on Friday. After a monthlong public comment period and a public hearing, which probably will be in July, the General Assembly's Administrative Regulation Review Subcommittee and the Interim Joint Committee on Education will give the regulation a final review, said Nancy Rodriguez, a spokeswoman for the Kentucky Department of Education.

Although the regulation could take effect later this year, changes would not begin until the 2014-15 school year, with some provisions phased in, Tackett said. The committee overseeing middle schools won't be named until the legislative review is complete.

Explaining the different tack that will be taken with middle schools, Tackett said, "We're governing high school sports, we are overseeing this middle school project ... I hope this leads to the development of a strong middle school program."

Because middle school athletes have needs that are different from high school athletes, the yet-to-be-named committee members "can't just Xerox the high school rules," Tackett said.

High school sports in the state are governed by the bylaws of the KHSAA, but there is no similar organization for middle school athletics, for which local school boards make their own rules. Also, private citizens have established nonprofit organizations to establish playoffs and championships in some areas of the state for middle school sports such as football and wrestling.

The issue of how to regulate and oversee middle school athletics has been discussed for several years in Kentucky. In 1993, a task force recommended that the KHSAA expand its scope to include middle school athletics, but that was never done because of finances and lack of manpower. Tackett said the KHSAA can now handle the oversight of health and safety rules.

Late last year, a panel called the Task Force on Middle School Athletics, commissioned by the legislature, made recommendations concerning the health and safety of the students, and many are included in the regulation.

Specific regulations

Under the proposal, paid and unpaid coaches would have to be 21 and submit to criminal background checks. All middle school students would have to adhere to the same sports medicine policies as high school athletes.

The new committee formed to oversee middle school sports would have to provide an opportunity for nonprofit athletic groups, parents and others to provide input on sports, athletic events and other school district issues regarding middle school sports.

It would have to meet at least twice a year to review policies and make recommendations.

The committee would have to report regularly to the KHSAA and work in conjunction with Tackett on a formal written annual report to the Kentucky Board of Education.

Under the regulation, an organization conducting a school-based event at the middle school level would have to submit financial reports, which would be published on the KHSAA website.

One provision in the regulation addresses parents who ask that students be retained instead of being promoted to the next grade for athletic reasons.

"There's no denying that it happens. Everybody thinks their kid is the next scholarship player at Kentucky," Tackett said.

Beginning with the 2014-15 school year, students would not be able to compete in middle school during a year in which they are repeating a grade for any reason, under the regulation. Students could compete in later middle school years, Tackett said.

A similar rule has been in place for high school students for years, Tackett said.

The regulation also calls for local school districts to set limits on student participation and constraints on pre-season practices and how many games are played in a season. Middle school students wouldn't be able to play more games than high school students are allowed to play.

Tackett said the legislature's middle school task force heard testimony that two middle school basketball teams had played 50 games, when high schools may play only 30 during the regular season.

Playing at high school level

Under Kentucky law, seventh- and eighth-grade students may play at the high school level in most sports except soccer, wrestling and football. That wouldn't change under the new regulation.

Currently, there is no statewide rule prohibiting students in the sixth grade and below from participating at the high school level. fewer than 400 of the more than 65,000 students who play on Kentucky high school teams are in sixth grade or below, Tackett said. Most compete in sports such as golf, tennis and cross country.

Under the new regulation, only students in seventh grade and above would be able to play on high school teams as of the 2014-15 school year. Students in sixth grade and below who are playing for a high school at that time would be allowed to continue.

Tackett said the legislative task force heard testimony last year that indicated the mingling of students below sixth grade and high school students in an athletic environment was not in the younger students' best interests.

Don Adkins, Fayette County Public Schools' athletic director for middle and high schools, said he expected few changes as a result of the regulation because Fayette County middle schools already are required to follow KHSAA health and safety rules. Fayette County has had a rule for a few years that middle school students who are being held back can't play athletics during the year that they repeat, he said.

Read more here: http://www.kentucky.com/2013/06/16/26812...rylink=cpy

[Cardfan1]

It's amazing the primary concern is on holdbacks like these kids pose a danger. Tells where this is coming from.

Looks like this is gonna give us a bunch of rules but no benefit like districts and playoffs.

[Blackwater]

So, student safety and physical and mental development is not a benefit. All this talk about "hold backs" is disgusting. It is not for academic development, it is for pure athletic gain, if ther is any gain. You have a group of potential athletes at a certain grade level, hold them back and beat the snot out of everyone for a couple years. Then, when they get to high school the group never seems to hold together. One or more transfers because mom and dad does't like the direction the program is going, usually as it relates to their child. If you want your child to be more mature and academic ready, start them in kindergarten a year later. That would solve all your concerns, bigger, stronger, and will graduate at 18 or 19 years of age. Benefit, they will go through school with their peers and friends they have made when they first entered school. They won't have to sit in class and hear the same content being taught over again and be bored out of their brains.

[Cardfan1]

Teams that participate in KYMSFA have been doing things that ensure student safety: limited games and medically certified coaches.

Why is it ok for me to hold back my kid in kindergarten so he will be 19 when graduates and not the 6th or 7th grade? People are concerned with my child's friends and their level of boredom in class... Is that it?

Funny my kid who stayed back in the 6th grade had a much better experience than the one who stayed back in kindergarten.

Rules are rules, but like I said earlier it seems we will get more governance with few benefits from this, but thank God nobody will ever get three years of middle school eligibility again.

[SWHS future]

Just curious to know what grades are defined as "middle school"? Some middle schools are 7th/8th, some are 6th/7th/8th, and others are 5th/6th/7th/8th. Will middle schools that are 5th-8th be held to the same rules as a 7th-8th grade? What about elementary schools 5th and 6th grades that feed a 7th/8th grade middle school? It sounds like "middle school will be defined as 7th/8th from the article. Just curious if anyone knows.

[Newjacket]

I decided to hold my child back due to immaturity during his sixth grade year, but chose to wait another year because of football. My thinking was if I was going to hold him back anyway, why. Not wait til middle school where he would get an extra year of being coached by high school assistants that would teach him the high school system instead of another year in little league being coached by patent volunteers.

[Blackwater]

Read my post. I said, why not start them a year later. Not hold them back in Kindergarten. I'm not saying anyone is wrong in how they guide their children. That is up to each parent to decide hopefully with their child's input. However, educational research shows that it is better to start them a year later than to hold them back.

[Belfry0304]

I refuse to believe this has anything to do with anything besides money. I've seen 12 year old true 8th graders and I've seen 14-15 year old true 8th graders... there's already an age rule in place that works just fine (birthdate)... holdback players are not a safety issue, but a competition issue, which leads me to believe they will try to introduce districts and do their own playoffs and make money... I may be wrong, but I don't think I will be.

[Cardfan1]

I hope you are right, Belfry. Khsaa wants the money so they will organize something. Football is actually ok in that aspect other than crazy conferences but basketball and baseball need work.

Blackwater:
"All this talk about "hold backs" is disgusting. It is not for academic development, it is for pure athletic gain, if ther is any gain."

Post was pretty clear. I just find the logic flawed, and narrow minded.

[Blackwater]

II don't argue with research unless I have the data to defend my position. I also won't argue with you on a blog service. The KHSAA will not get involved with post season tournaments and play-offs. They do not have the authority from the state BOE or legislature to set up such a system. If you will notice the state BOE gave them a directive to do what they have outlined so far. Everyone is so concerned about retention, the biggest change will be Title IX compliance at the middle school level. Some parents, coaches, and even school sdminisrators will be in a state of shock.