[torQQue]

Why am I against it? If the schools system is not good enough for certain children then why should it be good enough for them to be active in those school systems sports program? I asked this same question earlier and know one answered. Most of us know that so many kids are being home schooled by parents that can't even function on their own. I'm not trying tick anyone of here.

I ask you this, how do you determine whether or not a child is good enough for a particular school system? We are not talking about social status here. Because we are definitely not the type of people that think we are better, or have more money than others. The KEYWORD here is school/education. How do we, or I should say the state of Kentucky, measure the quality and effectiveness of an education? With testscores.

I would be willing to bet any amount of money, that my two homeschooled kids testscores, would greatly exceed the average KCCT, CAT, ACT, etc, scores. Furthermore, since we have to measure a school's effectiveness by testscores, and not by social status, I ask you, why aren't my kids good enough to participate in public athletics? It's definitely not because of their lack of education. If education isn't the deciding factor, then exactly what is? Isn't education the most important factor, and athletics are just a bonus? My kids deserve the bonus.

Also, no where in my post did I ever say the public schools system weren't good enough for my kids. I haven't had one issue with the teachers and/or faculty members from our district. The ones I know personally are certainly qualified and dedicated to the students. However, there simply isn't enough them.

I attended public school systems my entire life, and many of the same teachers then, are still teachers now. I received a quality education, however, it could have been better if the public schools didn't stretch teachers so thin.

The problem isn't the teachers at all, as mentioned, public school systems just need more of them, so they can decrease the size of the classrooms. Smaller classrooms equate to better student and teacher productivity. I challenge you to prove me otherwise. Take a look at the average public teacher to student ratio which is 17:1, compared to the private which is 6:1.
Then compare the Test scores. You will then understand where I am coming from.

Public school systems don't have the adequate funding to give more academic individualization to meet the needs of slower, average, and/or gifted children. For example, my kid is academically gifted, their solution is to throw him into a classroom, 2 or 3 grade levels higher. I am not going to do that, and run the possibility that the older kids may tease and pick on him because he is different from them. Self esteem and confidence is easily damaged at such a young age, and those problems can affect a person for a lifetime. Do you agree?

Another thing, why should I be satisfied with just "good" enough? What if my son wants a "great" education? My son loves to learn, and wants to be challenge academically. When he masters one subject and/or area of interest, he moves on to the next. There are no academic time frames/guidelines/teacher planners like you see in public school systems holding him back. If he completes the 5th grade math textbook in two months at home, he can move on to 6th grade at home. In a public school, he would have to move at the teachers pace. At home, we can work with him at "his" own academic pace.

In my opinion, the public school systems simply don’t have enough "people resources" to allow him to excel at that level. They have the quality, just not enough quantity to go around..

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[Benchwarmer]

I do realize that.
We have a few GREAT, hard working teachers.

Do you realize that some hard working PARENTS spend their life trying to help and teach their children? And give them the individual advanced education that a public school cannot?

I am sorry, many school districts simply are average and are too concerned about test scores. Plus they spend more time trying to bring up the score of the struggling student rather than give the gifted or even above average student the individual attention they need and deserve also to prepare them for a secondary education.

I have spoken with college professors from KY, WV, and VA.
They all speak of eastern KY kids, as a whole, being unprepared for a college curriculum.
Some students with excellent grades in high school even end up in remedial college classes to "catch up" before entering traditional college classes.

I'm assuming that you could imply that some kids from all area struggle in college not just Eastern Kentucky. thanks to the Knott County public school system I scored a 24 on my ACT.

[torQQue]

I do realize that.
We have a few GREAT, hard working teachers.

Do you realize that some hard working PARENTS spend their life trying to help and teach their children? And give them the individual advanced education that a public school cannot?

I am sorry, many school districts simply are average and are too concerned about test scores. Plus they spend more time trying to bring up the score of the struggling student rather than give the gifted or even above average student the individual attention they need and deserve also to prepare them for a secondary education.

I have spoken with college professors from KY, WV, and VA.
They all speak of eastern KY kids, as a whole, being unprepared for a college curriculum.
Some students with excellent grades in high school even end up in remedial college classes to "catch up" before entering traditional college classes.

There is much truth to this statement, at least in my experience. For example, my wife and I graduated among the top of our High School class. My wife was in the Top 10 and she received a full academic scholarship. I was ranked somewhere in the top 30 percent and received a partial academic scholarship. Both of us had exceptional grades and we completed everything required of us. However, we still had to take remedial math classes during college. The fact is we were simply were not taught the appropriate math curriculum, and our ACT math scores reflected that fact.

I know now, the public schools in Floyd County do offer some college preparation courses., as compared to virtually zero in years past. However, I don't have any research to backup their effectiveness. And I agree with you, that too much emphasis and competition is being placed on achieving higher post tests scores. In my opinion, that money being invested into improving test scores should be used for funding smaller classrooms, and improving college preparation. But, that is just my opinion.

[Benchwarmer]

I ask you this, how do you determine whether or not a child is good enough for a particular school system? We are not talking about social status here. Because we are definitely not the type of people that think we are better, or have more money than others. The KEYWORD here is school/education. How do we, or I should say the state of Kentucky, measure the quality and effectiveness of an education? With testscores.

I would be willing to bet any amount of money, that my two homeschooled kids testscores, would greatly exceed the average KCCT, CAT, ACT, etc, scores. Furthermore, since we have to measure a school's effectiveness by testscores, and not by social status, I ask you, why aren't my kids good enough to participate in public athletics? It's definitely not because of their lack of education. If education isn't the deciding factor, then exactly what is? Isn't education the most important factor, and athletics are just a bonus? My kids deserve the bonus.

Also, no where in my post did I ever say the public schools system weren't good enough for my kids. I haven't had one issue with the teachers and/or faculty members from our district. The ones I know personally are certainly qualified and dedicated to the students. However, there simply isn't enough them.

I attended public school systems my entire life, and many of the same teachers then, are still teachers now. I received a quality education, however, it could have been better if the public schools didn't stretch teachers so thin.

The problem isn't the teachers at all, as mentioned, public school systems just need more of them, so they can decrease the size of the classrooms. Smaller classrooms equate to better student and teacher productivity. I challenge you to prove me otherwise. Take a look at the average public teacher to student ratio which is 17:1, compared to the private which is 6:1.
Then compare the Test scores. You will then understand where I am coming from.

Public school systems don't have the adequate funding to give more academic individualization to meet the needs of slower, average, and/or gifted children. For example, my kid is academically gifted, their solution is to throw him into a classroom, 2 or 3 grade levels higher. I am not going to do that, and run the possibility that the older kids may tease and pick on him because he is different from them. Self esteem and confidence is easily damaged at such a young age, and those problems can affect a person for a lifetime. Do you agree?

Another thing, why should I be satisfied with just "good" enough? What if my son wants a "great" education? My son loves to learn, and wants to be challenge academically. When he masters one subject and/or area of interest, he moves on to the next. There are no academic time frames/guidelines/teacher planners like you see in public school systems holding him back. If he completes the 5th grade math textbook in two months at home, he can move on to 6th grade at home. In a public school, he would have to move at the teachers pace. At home, we can work with him at "his" own academic pace.

In my opinion, the public school systems simply don’t have enough "people resources" to allow him to excel at that level. They have the quality, just not enough quantity to go around..

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I was not talking about your kids in general. And, also agree that there is not enough teachers in most school system. Are all parents as qualified as you or your wife to home school their children? No. But, I believe you will have more people trying this process that has no idea how to run a program like yours. You will see more of the lower achieving kids that need a public school education being home schooled by parents that have a 5th grade education. Let me see getting up at 7:00 and go to school and play sports or get up at 12:00 and still play sports. What do you think will happen?
Yes I do believe that self-esteem can be damaged at a young age. But thee are so many things in life that can destroy kids confidence. I was teased at a young age and survived. What kid is not faced with a little teasing sometime in their life. Listen, I want you to understand that I'm not trying to say you are doing anything wrong by home schooling your child. That is great that you do this for him and I applaud you for it. but I disagree about playing sports. That's all. I'm sure every teacher in Kentucky would love to have and be challenged by having you child in their classroom.

[Benchwarmer]

There is much truth to this statement, at least in my experience. For example, my wife and I graduated among the top of our High School class. My wife was in the Top 10 and she received a full academic scholarship. I was ranked somewhere in the top 30 percent and received a partial academic scholarship. Both of us had exceptional grades and we completed everything required of us. However, we still had to take remedial math classes during college. The fact is we were simply were not taught the appropriate math curriculum, and our ACT math scores reflected that fact.

I know now, the public schools in Floyd County do offer some college preparation courses., as compared to virtually zero in years past. However, I don't have any research to backup their effectiveness. And I agree with you, that too much emphasis and competition is being placed on achieving higher post tests scores. In my opinion, that money being invested into improving test scores should be used for funding smaller classrooms, and improving college preparation. But, that is just my opinion.

I agree with that the state puts to much in the test scores and I felt that pain as a student but learned from it. I'm guessing within the next 2 to 3 years the testing system will be gone. I know at Knott central you can start taking college classes you Jr. year instead of taking your electives.

[torQQue]

I'm assuming that you could imply that some kids from all area struggle in college not just Eastern Kentucky. thanks to the Knott County public school system I scored a 24 on my ACT.

There is always going to be exceptions to rules. Now, if that was Knott Countys average ACT score you would have stronge argument. However, a very small percentage of people are born exceptional learners, and don't need much preparation and guidance. Are you one of those people. Or are you like many of us who need more guidance, preparation and attention in order to excel, and meet our full potential.

I think Fox was implying that the majority of students fall into the lower average. If you scored a 24 then you are definitely in the minority compared to Eastern Kentucky average ACT scores. You are either an exceptional learner and/or someone somewhere offered you wonderful guidance.

BTW. congratulations on the ACT score. My questions to you are, Do you owe all the credit to the Knott County public school system? Did your parents not have any part in providing you with guidance, and did they push you to excel academically. If not you are very lucky, because some teacher/counselor cared very much about you, and devoted extra time to you so that you would excel academically.

[torQQue]

I was not talking about your kids in general. And, also agree that there is not enough teachers in most school system. Are all parents as qualified as you or your wife to home school their children? No. But, I believe you will have more people trying this process that has no idea how to run a program like yours. You will see more of the lower achieving kids that need a public school education being home schooled by parents that have a 5th grade education. Let me see getting up at 7:00 and go to school and play sports or get up at 12:00 and still play sports. What do you think will happen?
Yes I do believe that self-esteem can be damaged at a young age. But thee are so many things in life that can destroy kids confidence. I was teased at a young age and survived. What kid is not faced with a little teasing sometime in their life. Listen, I want you to understand that I'm not trying to say you are doing anything wrong by home schooling your child. That is great that you do this for him and I applaud you for it. but I disagree about playing sports. That's all. I'm sure every teacher in Kentucky would love to have and be challenged by having you child in their classroom.

Benchwarmer, I know you weren’t specifically referring to my children. And I do respect your opinions and you provide some nice insight and valid considerations that I never thought about. Parents that care more about their sons/daughters excelling in athletics than in academics have their priorities backwards and really need a reality check. I hate to tell them, but their little Johnny has a better chance hitting the Powerball lottery twice in one week, than making millions playing pro ball.

You are also correct, that all parents are not qualified enough to run their own private education system. With that said, shouldn't the state pre-screen the parents with educational background checks, work history/ethics, criminal backgrounds, etc., before they allow them the authority to homeschool? If then, they (the parents) meet the guidelines, and the kids show satisfactory academic progress comparable to public schools, should they be allowed to participate in athletic programs within the same district? After all, we are a Kentucky state licensed school just like the public school, and have to adhere to same governance/policies issued by the state of Kentucky. The only difference is we don’t have the resources available to offer our kids competitive athletic programs. Why should the state deny them (those qualifying homeschools) entrance to their public athletic programs if they want to participate, and are qualified academically? Florida doesn’t, and if Tim Tebow would have lived in Kentucky we would of never witness his "on the field" and "off the field" greatness. It seems like our state guidelines have more/stricter athletic policies in place than they do academic policies. Talk about having priorities backwards.

I don't want my kids competing in sports because I think they will go pro. Nor do I want them to compete, so daddy can try to relive his life through his son. I just want them to learn sportsmanship and gain that strong mental character and toughness that competitive sports provide. And most importantly, it is healthy for their bodies to be active.

[sstack]

Obviously, you are stereotyping homeschooled children when you say they have "problems." Could you please back that statement up with some peer reviewed research and facts? What exactly was the "bigger problems" Tim Tebow had/has? Your argument is weak, and you seem like the one with the problems? I guess you must of been homeschooled too.

You present no facts, no research to back up your ridiculous claims. I find it offensive to my two sons that you just assume homeschooled kids have problems.

Did you read my post about why my children are homeschooled? The "problem" my oldest son has is that he is intellectually and academically gifted. At 7 soon to be 8, he has the academic equivalence of a typical 6th grader. The public schools thought he should be promoted a minimum of two grade levels because that's the only way they could stimulate him academically. The problem with that is, he is not mature enough socially to be thrown in with 5th or 6th graders. I don't want to risk his self esteem and confidence simply because he academically gifted. His mom and I can challenge and meet his academic requirements here at home without running the risk of socially damaging him. He may be smarter than most kids his age, but he is still just 7 years old, that enjoys interacting/playing with children his age. He has participated in city league sports since he has been 3 yeas old. He has many friends in his age group that he interacts/plays with. He has no problems whatsover. A very typical 7 year old, other than be gifted academically.

My youngest son is homeschooled, not because he is academically gifted, but because he has severe food allergies and an esophagus disorder. We are not going to run the risk that he is given a food at school that could make extremely sick and/or worsen his condition. However, because he is sick and requires special attention doesn't mean he is handicapped. He should be able to participate in sports if he meets the KHSAA academic guidelines for sports participation. Why penalize the homeschooled children if they are on par academically with the public schooled children?

Also, why do you assume homeschooling is bad? Do you assume that all parents are not qualified to teach their children? My wife and I both are 4.0 Masters degree graduates. I have earned ABD status toward my doctorate, and have taught as an adjunct at the college level. I think we are more than qualified enough to teach our children. Our kids get more one on one time that they would ever get in a school system. The average teacher to student ratio for a primary education teacher in Kentucky is 17:1 for public schools, 6:1 for private schools, and 1:1 or 1:2 for homeschooled, depending whether or not both parents participate. I rest easier at night, knowing my kids are receiving quality "one on one" academic instruction and guidance.

I don't anticipate you replying back to this post because obviously you have a "personal agenda," without any facts to back up your ridiculous claim concerning homeschooled children.

You said you did not want to move your child up in grade partly for social reasons, don't you think home schooling will affect him socially? I do. It also sounds like you are in a bad school system. My daughter was reading on the 9th grade level in 4th grade, the school adjusted her work level according to her abilities. Each kid is taught to their abilties at our school and are challenged. If your childs school is not able to do this, I give you credit for home schooling. But, I do think your kids miss out on alot of social interaction. As for playing sports, I am not sure how I feel about it, but I probably favor letting them play for the district they live in.

[sstack]

Do what? What a ridiculous post!
Do you realize that some hard working teachers spend their life trying to help and teach children?

Yes, and many do not really care or work hard to teach the children the way they need to be.

[sstack]

I do realize that.
We have a few GREAT, hard working teachers.

Do you realize that some hard working PARENTS spend their life trying to help and teach their children? And give them the individual advanced education that a public school cannot?

I am sorry, many school districts simply are average and are too concerned about test scores. Plus they spend more time trying to bring up the score of the struggling student rather than give the gifted or even above average student the individual attention they need and deserve also to prepare them for a secondary education.

I have spoken with college professors from KY, WV, and VA.
They all speak of eastern KY kids, as a whole, being unprepared for a college curriculum.
Some students with excellent grades in high school even end up in remedial college classes to "catch up" before entering traditional college classes.

Excellent post, I found this to be true with some friends in college who were tops in their class in high school from Eastern KY.

[sstack]

I ask you this, how do you determine whether or not a child is good enough for a particular school system? We are not talking about social status here. Because we are definitely not the type of people that think we are better, or have more money than others. The KEYWORD here is school/education. How do we, or I should say the state of Kentucky, measure the quality and effectiveness of an education? With testscores.

I would be willing to bet any amount of money, that my two homeschooled kids testscores, would greatly exceed the average KCCT, CAT, ACT, etc, scores. Furthermore, since we have to measure a school's effectiveness by testscores, and not by social status, I ask you, why aren't my kids good enough to participate in public athletics? It's definitely not because of their lack of education. If education isn't the deciding factor, then exactly what is? Isn't education the most important factor, and athletics are just a bonus? My kids deserve the bonus.

Also, no where in my post did I ever say the public schools system weren't good enough for my kids. I haven't had one issue with the teachers and/or faculty members from our district. The ones I know personally are certainly qualified and dedicated to the students. However, there simply isn't enough them.

I attended public school systems my entire life, and many of the same teachers then, are still teachers now. I received a quality education, however, it could have been better if the public schools didn't stretch teachers so thin.

The problem isn't the teachers at all, as mentioned, public school systems just need more of them, so they can decrease the size of the classrooms. Smaller classrooms equate to better student and teacher productivity. I challenge you to prove me otherwise. Take a look at the average public teacher to student ratio which is 17:1, compared to the private which is 6:1.
Then compare the Test scores. You will then understand where I am coming from.

Public school systems don't have the adequate funding to give more academic individualization to meet the needs of slower, average, and/or gifted children. For example, my kid is academically gifted, their solution is to throw him into a classroom, 2 or 3 grade levels higher. I am not going to do that, and run the possibility that the older kids may tease and pick on him because he is different from them. Self esteem and confidence is easily damaged at such a young age, and those problems can affect a person for a lifetime. Do you agree?

Another thing, why should I be satisfied with just "good" enough? What if my son wants a "great" education? My son loves to learn, and wants to be challenge academically. When he masters one subject and/or area of interest, he moves on to the next. There are no academic time frames/guidelines/teacher planners like you see in public school systems holding him back. If he completes the 5th grade math textbook in two months at home, he can move on to 6th grade at home. In a public school, he would have to move at the teachers pace. At home, we can work with him at "his" own academic pace.

In my opinion, the public school systems simply don’t have enough "people resources" to allow him to excel at that level. They have the quality, just not enough quantity to go around..

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Once agian, my kids school in not run that way. Each child is taught at their level of learning and not an academic time frame. It is sad to think the rest of the state is not like our school system. I guess that is why our school is always rated top in the state. Makes me feel better about the high housing cost to live in this district.

[torQQue]

You said you did not want to move your child up in grade partly for social reasons, don't you think home schooling will affect him socially? I do. It also sounds like you are in a bad school system. My daughter was reading on the 9th grade level in 4th grade, the school adjusted her work level according to her abilities. Each kid is taught to their abilties at our school and are challenged. If your childs school is not able to do this, I give you credit for home schooling. But, I do think your kids miss out on alot of social interaction. As for playing sports, I am not sure how I feel about it, but I probably favor letting them play for the district they live in.

Our sons do get social interaction, but no where near what a kid attending a public/private school daily receives. They have several friends and family members around the neighborhood from their age group that they interact/play with. They also play city league sports. Another bonus for us is they are brothers, and are constantly interacting together as well. We (as an entire family) attend almost every Elementary and High School sporting event at our home town, and they interact well with kids there too.
For example, they attend sleepovers, go bowling, parties, swimming at public pools, play at parks, attend movies, fish, roller skate, play bingo, attend carnivals, cookouts, go hiking, go to church events, trick or treat, hide eggs, take friends on vacation, play city sports, have bake sales, etc,

We do have some concerns, but as of now, they seem to be developing just fine socially. It also helps that my wife was a psychology major; she will/can recognize and correct any social development issues, before they lead to any social psychological problems. However, we (as parents) are involved with their social development, and I don't think we will ever have any problems. I can see problems arising when parents that homeschool fail to get their kids involved in social events and activities because kids and even adults need social stimulation.

[Kosar]

If the school system doesnt get anything from them, why should they be allowed to show up and use the facilitys and take advantage of the athletic programs?

[15th region slamdunk]

If the school system doesnt get anything from them, why should they be allowed to show up and use the facilitys and take advantage of the athletic programs?

The schools get our tax money.

[torQQue]

If the school system doesnt get anything from them, why should they be allowed to show up and use the facilitys and take advantage of the athletic programs?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't we all pay the same Kentucky state/city taxes, which funds these public schools?

[Kosar]

But they dont get the funding from the state for your children attending school every day.

[sstack]

Our sons do get social interaction, but no where near what a kid attending a public/private school daily receives. They have several friends and family members around the neighborhood from their age group that they interact/play with. They also play city league sports. Another bonus for us is they are brothers, and are constantly interacting together as well. We (as an entire family) attend almost every Elementary and High School sporting event at our home town, and they interact well with kids there too.
For example, they attend sleepovers, go bowling, parties, swimming at public pools, play at parks, attend movies, fish, roller skate, play bingo, attend carnivals, cookouts, go hiking, go to church events, trick or treat, hide eggs, take friends on vacation, play city sports, have bake sales, etc,

We do have some concerns, but as of now, they seem to be developing just fine socially. It also helps that my wife was a psychology major; she will/can recognize and correct any social development issues, before they lead to any social psychological problems. However, we (as parents) are involved with their social development, and I don't think we will ever have any problems. I can see problems arising when parents that homeschool fail to get their kids involved in social events and activities because kids and even adults need social stimulation.

sounds like you are doing all the right things, keep up the good work!

[blitzingback]

But they dont get the funding from the state for your children attending school every day.

They don't get tax money from parents who don't work either, but they don't keep those kids from participating.

[charlie22]

I say no because home schooling is much easier than attending classes on a regular day basis. As someone said there would or could be transfer problems. Too have this is the state of Kentucky there would be a lot of guidelines and it would probably be more problems then what it would be worth.

There would not be any different transfer problems than currently exists, would there? If a home schooler plays one second of varsity sports at one high school and decides he/she wanted to play at another high school, he/she would be required to sit out for a year under By Law 6.

[charlie22]

But they dont get the funding from the state for your children attending school every day.

True, but the state, while collecting the taxes from all tax payers in the state, doesn't have to pay for the cost of educating the home schoolers, which means the state has more dollars per student to distribute under the SEEK formula. For example (an extreme one I know) if everyone was paying their taxes into the state and all but a hundred students were schooled, the state would have a boat load of money to pay for the education of those 100 non-home schoolers. Every kid that gets home schooled (or attends private school for that matter) enables the kids at the public schools to get more money because the pot of dollars gets split amongst fewer students. Just stop and think of what the financial burden would be if there were no kids attending private schools or being home schooled. It would make the existing terrible underfunding situation even worse. Plus most school districts also receive some direct local taxes that aren't funneled through the state, so that it an additional windfall for the school districts that don't have to incur the cost of educating home schoolers and private schoolers.

[15th region slamdunk]

here would be my plan. Homeschoolers can only play in there district. And once they play for 1 school, they cant switch the next season, without sitting out a season. And same for kids in HS who would switch to homeschool, have them sit out a season also.

[15th region slamdunk]

Everyone that is keeping up with this, check out this article.. It tells exactly what the bill says and etc..http://www.gainesville.com/article/20090...1/0/SPORTs

[15th region slamdunk]

So has anybody heard any new news on this?

[Breathitt Bobcat]

Only if they play in the same school district that they live in.

[blitzingback]

Only if they play in the same school district that they live in.

I don't think that would be any harder to govern than kids that go to public schools.

[C.Clair]

If kids wanna play, let them play. Whats the big deal?

[15th region slamdunk]

anybody have any new news or updates on this?