[TheRealThing]

Good question...

However, IMO the current system is not working.

The system could work, I know this because it once did. When folks started putting party over country, became all too willing to lie, ala Bill Clinton, began trying to divorce themselves from the foundation of morality which, is the Holy Scriptures, and when voters started voting strictly down party lines for the most part, is when we left the path. If voters held candidates honest by not voting for scoundrels things would change overnight.

[TheRealVille]

The system could work, I know this because it once did. When folks started putting party over country, became all too willing to lie, ala Bill Clinton, began trying to divorce themselves from the foundation of morality which, is the Holy Scriptures, and when voters started voting strictly down party lines for the most part, is when we left the path. If voters held candidates honest by not voting for scoundrels things would change overnight.

Bill started the lying? :hilarious:

[nky]

[YOUTUBE="That's a lie"]KiIP_KDQmXs[/YOUTUBE]:problemgirl:

[nky]

[YOUTUBE="But then again"]sh163n1lJ4M[/YOUTUBE]:happytear:

[nky]

The 24 hour hyperbole news cycle where you have to gin up your comments to cut though the fog of the blogs has gotten us where we are today. The reality is politic - the dirty nasty name calling your momma wears combat boots politics is no different than in years past even generations past.
In the 1800 election a pro-Adams newspaper predicted that if Jefferson were elected, “murder, robbery, rape, adultery, and incest will be openly taught and practiced, the air will be rent with the cries of the distressed, the soil will be soaked with blood, and the nation black with crimes.”
[YOUTUBE="yep"]Y_zTN4BXvYI[/YOUTUBE]

[nky]

[YOUTUBE="Jefferson knew"]B93yn0O35Cw[/YOUTUBE]

[TheRealVille]

What party started the great depression? Nuff said....

[TheRealThing]

Bill started the lying? :hilarious:

Prior to William Jefferson Clinton, we had the following republican presidents in descending order; George H Bush, Ronald Reagan,Gerald Ford, Richard Nixon, Dwight D Eisenhower. Out of all those guys, the best anyone can pin on them is that Bush said there would be no new taxes during his campaign, at some point Bush raised taxes as a way to reduce the national budget deficit. Bush refused many times but was making no progress with a Senate and House that was controlled by Democrats. Bush eventually agreed to a compromise with Congressional Democrats to raise several taxes as part of a 1990 budget agreement. Although technically there were no new taxes in this agreement. [Wiki] So, if a president does bite the bullet and work with congress like George H did, he gets torpedoed for decades for such a small compromise, such actions these days are what is referred to as being a uniter. All things considered, not much there in the way of rolling over on the American public that I can see.

Nixon's inner circle illegally eavesdropped on doings in the DNC (planting bugs) for the purposes of learning what stategy they were planning for the coming presidential election. Embarrassing but not exactly high treason. Nixon lied about any knowledge of the affair after trying to help members of his inner circle avoid the full blunt of the trouble they got themselves into. Sort of like when Obama execised executive priviledge to insulate Eric Holder from the prying eyes of Darrell Issa and Chuck Grassley, LOL.

Five presidents, and 24 years of service and this is the extent of the lying. Clinton told more lies than that to Hillary before he brushed his teeth in the morning. nicker:

[nky]

What party started the great depression? Nuff said....

Which party made it last longer than it should of with it's Keynesian economics policies? Nuff saidnicker:

[TheRealVille]

Which party made it last longer than it should of with it's Keynesian economics policies? Nuff saidnicker:

Recovery started in early 1933, under which President? Ironically, it began to recover in his first year in office. Nuff said.....

[Hoot Gibson]

Recovery started in early 1933, under which President? Ironically, it began to recover in his first year in office. Nuff said.....

The unemployment rate in 1938 rose to 19 percent. That sounds a lot like an Obama recovery.

In 1932, under Hoover, the top marginal income tax rate was raised from 25 percent to 63 percent. Spending on the welfare state exploded under FDR and the country did not emerge from the Great Depression until WWII.

Spending on the welfare state has exploded under Obama and the unemployment rate has remained over 8 percent for 42 straight months. Now, Obama wants to impose a sharp increase in the top marginal federal income tax rate on job producers. With Obama, we got the worst of Hoover and the worst of FDR. We got a twofer.

[TheRealVille]

The unemployment rate in 1938 rose to 19 percent. That sounds a lot like an Obama recovery.

In 1932, under Hoover, the top marginal income tax rate was raised from 25 percent to 63 percent. Spending on the welfare state exploded under FDR and the country did not emerge from the Great Depression until WWII.

Spending on the welfare state has exploded under Obama and the unemployment rate has remained over 8 percent for 42 straight months. Now, Obama wants to impose a sharp increase in the top marginal federal income tax rate on job producers. With Obama, we got the worst of Hoover and the worst of FDR. We got a twofer.

Notice where the unemployment recovery started. Btw, in the late 30's(37-39), it was the start of a depression. Look at the slide in unemployment from the beginning of his term until the end. It is mostly going down. throughout FDR's terms.

http://eh.net/encyclopedia/article/Steindl.GD.Recovery
[Image: http://eh.net/files/graphics/encyclopedi...age002.gif]

[TheRealVille]

I find it odd.....not, that republicans won't even give props to one of the greatest Presidents ever, which btw, helped to bring the US out of it's darkest days. :hilarious:

Add that to the list of why I left the party, TRT.

[Harry Rex Vonner]

WWII had far, far more to do with the recovery of our country than did Frank and all his socialist programs. Kardashian seems to be a combination of Frank (socialist policies) and Carter (incompetence) with more than a dash of Karl Marx.

[TheRealVille]

WWII had far, far more to do with the recovery of our country than did Frank and all his socialist programs. Kardashian seems to be a combination of Frank (socialist policies) and Carter (incompetence) with more than a dash of Karl Marx.

The war was the last major factor, but all of history gives FDR credit for getting the recovery going, all of history, except the red party.

[Hoot Gibson]

I find it odd.....not, that republicans won't even give props to one of the greatest Presidents ever, which btw, helped to bring the US out of it's darkest days. :hilarious:

Add that to the list of why I left the party, TRT.

I find it hard to believe, given your socialist view of the world, that you were ever a Republican. I am not saying that you were not a Republican, just that it is very hard to see how any Republican who actually understood the two parties' positions would ever make the switch and support a clown like Obama in two elections.

BTW, the Great Depression ended with the outbreak of World War II. FDR really had nothing to do with ending it and arguably, his welfare programs extended its duration. Most of the fiscal crisis that this country faces today has its roots in FDR's new entitlement programs. FDR and LBJ sowed the seeds for this country's destruction.

[Harry Rex Vonner]

The war was the last major factor, but all of history gives FDR credit for getting the recovery going, all of history, except the red party.

Do you really believe that? Maybe you should not depend on the "works" of Doris Kearns Goodwin.

[TheRealVille]

Notice where the unemployment recovery started. Btw, in the late 30's(37-39), it was the start of a depression. Look at the slide in unemployment from the beginning of his term until the end. It is mostly going down. throughout FDR's terms.

http://eh.net/encyclopedia/article/Steindl.GD.Recovery
[Image: http://eh.net/files/graphics/encyclopedi...age002.gif]

Recession, that is.

[TheRealVille]

Do you really believe that? Maybe you should not depend on the "works" of Doris Kearns Goodwin.

Only hardcore reds, with their red colored glasses, don't. The Sarah Palins', Michelle Bachmans', Rand Pauls' of the world, you might say.

[Harry Rex Vonner]

Only hardcore reds, with their red colored glasses, don't. The Sarah Palins', Michelle Bachmans', Rand Pauls' of the world, you might say.

I don't think you want to start comparing oddballs, fairies, deadbeats, freeloaders, liars, weirdos, etc. You would lose. Your list is endless because your ilk can't win an election without these various and sundry fruits and nuts.

Who is the face of your party? Try Sandra Fluke. No one symbolizes your constituency better. Who else would have the audacity to expect actual taxpayers (those are my people) to pay for her promiscuity? You have a real dandy there, TheRealVille and I understand that she will speak at your convention. Hopefully, she won't solicit while in Charlotte.

[TheRealThing]

I find it odd.....not, that republicans won't even give props to one of the greatest Presidents ever, which btw, helped to bring the US out of it's darkest days. :hilarious:

Add that to the list of why I left the party, TRT.

If I had just made a statement like this you'd be hollering that I was lying. In fact I have given props to FDR on several occassions. I said he was the leader we needed during the dark days of depression and world war. I don't agree that his fiscal policies worked. But I surely do agree that he led this nation out of a time when every American felt their life was threatened. And for good reason, every life actually was in jeopardy, if Hitler had developed the atom bomb before we did he would have laid waste to us. No, he was our Winston Churchill, and he inspired the folks of this land in a unique way. Again, that doesn't make his fiscal policies right and history teaches us that they didn't work well enough to bring us out of the great depression. The American industrial giant was awakened out of necessity before and during WWII. That's what brought us out of the grip of the great depression. We've enjoyed an expanding economy since those days. That expansion has collapsed under the economic policies of Obama. Which, are taken right out of the FDR playbook. FDR was a great president but he wasn't a great economist.

You left the party of folks that put country over party, for the party that puts party over country. You're a reasonable guy in several ways, it's hard to accept the possiblility that you would rather see America brought down through the selfishness of the left, as to embrace your traditional roots. Johnson's "Great Society" is a flop, history clearly teaches us this fact as surely as it does the lessons of the FDR era. I don't understand the big deal. If it works let's do it, if it doesn't let's not. Heck, our kids have to live in this country after we move out of the way. Let's leave things at least as good as we found them. Fundamentally changing America is ludacris, we have left enough history in our wake to be able to see what works and what doesn't. Obama's ideas are flawed.

[TheRealVille]

If I had just made a statement like this you'd be hollering that I was lying. In fact I have given props to FDR on several occassions. I said he was the leader we needed during the dark days of depression and world war. I don't agree that his fiscal policies worked. But I surely do agree that he led this nation out of a time when every American felt their life was threatened. And for good reason, every life actually was in jeopardy, if Hitler had developed the atom bomb before we did he would have laid waste to us. No, he was our Winston Churchill, and he inspired the folks of this land in a unique way. Again, that doesn't make his fiscal policies right and history teaches us that they didn't work well enough to bring us out of the great depression. The American industrial giant was awakened out of necessity before and during WWII. That brought us out of the grip of the great depression. We've enjoyed an expanding economy since those days. That expansion has collapsed under the economic policies of Obama. Which, are taken right out of the FDR playbook. FDR was a great president but he wasn't a great economist.

You left the party of folks that put country over party, for the party that puts party over country. You're a reasonable guy in several ways, it's hard to accept the possiblility that you would rather see America brought down through the selfishness of the left, as to embrace your traditional roots. Johnson's "Great Society" is a flop, history clearly teaches us this fact as surely as it does the lessons of the FDR era. I don't understand the big deal. If it works let's do it, if it doesn't let's not. Heck, our kids have to live in this country after we move out of the way. Let's leave things at least as good as we found them. Fundamentally changing America is ludacris, we have left enough history in our wake to be able to see what works and what doesn't. Obama's ideas are flawed.

I was addressing other posters(Hoot and nky) in the first sentence, and only naming you in the latter, as a way to tell you to add that reason as another of the reasons why I left the party, republicans that won't give democrats credit, when credit is due.

[TheRealThing]

I was addressing another poster in the first sentence, and only naming you in the latter, as a way to tell you to add that reason as another of the reasons why I left the party, republicans that won't give democrats credit, when credit is due.

Okay well, I want to counter your position anyway. Many republicans admire Jack Kennedy for some (not all) of his positions as they do other great dems who have gone on. The party of our grandfathers has mutated into a giant welfare agency whose employees, (democrats) find the rush of power delivered by holding public office intoxicating. BTW, bashing business men who have succeeded in making money employ most of the American work force. Isn't the official position the Obama administration has taken characterizing them as evil rich folks a little counter productive? Let me ask you something, who are you going to work for, if people with money don't hire you? When your boss hands you your check you gonna punch him in the mouth? If you vote for Obama again you might as well do just that.

[Hoot Gibson]

Okay well, I want to counter your position anyway. Many republicans admire Jack Kennedy for some (not all) of his positions as they do other great dems who have gone on. The party of our grandfathers has mutated into a giant welfare agency whose employees, (democrats) find the rush of power delivered by holding public office intoxicating. BTW, bashing business men who have succeeded in making money employ most of the American work force. Isn't the official position the Obama administration has taken characterizing them as evil rich folks a little counter productive? Let me ask you something, who are you going to work for, if people with money don't hire you? When your boss hands you your check you gonna punch him in the mouth? If you vote for Obama again you might as well do just that.

Your wasting your time, TRT. I have repeatedly given Kennedy credit for cutting taxes (the legislation was actually signed by LBJ after Kennedy's assassination, but it was Kennedy's initiative) and spurring economic growth. I have also repeatedly given Clinton credit for working with Republicans in Congress to balance the budget and reform welfare. RV is not concerned with the facts, which is what makes him a perfect Obama puppet.

If FDR deserved credit for ending the Great Depression, then I would give him his due. FDR's best work came as a wartime president. He screwed up the peacetime federal government for generations to come.

[nky]

FDR was a reassuring force on the American people during the 1930's. He gave hope to many in their darkest hours including the frightening period of WWII. But his policies and expansion of the government wasted many dollars with limited success prolonging the Great Depression.

[nky]

A couple of good reads

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/23/business/23view.html




http://www.examiner.com/article/spare-us-a-new-new-deal