Bluegrassrivals

Southern Pulaski 46 Johnson County 12
7th Grade State Finals

#44 was amazing for southern pulaski! Congrats.

Yeah but there's something unusual about a "7th " grader that's thinning on top that's bigger than most freshmen or high school sophomores. Been around fball a very long time and something just doesn't add up with N Pulaski 8th and S Pulaski 7th. Don't think everyone is playing on a level field here!

Thats true. Most competitive teams have holdbacks which is probally the case here.. I see nothing wrong with it, in my opinion.

catsfan2 Wrote:Thats true. Most competitive teams have holdbacks which is probally the case here.. I see nothing wrong with it, in my opinion.

I'm not sure what your definition of competitive is! I hardly find it to be that when 13yr olds are attempting ad you call it " compete" with 15yr olds. Losing is one thing but when you have to hold kids back so that you can beat your chest and say you won, what have you really won? The coaches and schools that are allowing this continue have no respect or love for the game. Your way of thinking is what's wrong with athletics today. The " win at whatever cost attitude" is polluting youth sports

I'm 6'4" and 280 lbs. And I believe that I would have had a hard time bring down and when some of southerns players. I believe that Johnson county done a heck of a job against a freshman team and when you have about 14 players split between an 8th grade and 7th grade team, that is exactly what you get, a freshman football team. But my hats off to southern, they played within the rules and won, but jc didn't just roll over and give it to them. I don't agree with Pulaski running the score up though.

Congrats to Southern!!!

Dillon Wrote:I'm not sure what your definition of competitive is! I hardly find it to be that when 13yr olds are attempting ad you call it " compete" with 15yr olds. Losing is one thing but when you have to hold kids back so that you can beat your chest and say you won, what have you really won? The coaches and schools that are allowing this continue have no respect or love for the game. Your way of thinking is what's wrong with athletics today. The " win at whatever cost attitude" is polluting youth sports

Birth Certificates are always provided for the state tournament and for 7th grade kids cant turn 14 before august first so I assure you there was no 15 year olds playing in this game. There are always going to be big kids, so just get over it.

Great job Warriors!!! Congrats!!!

goBIGblue82 Wrote:Birth Certificates are always provided for the state tournament and for 7th grade kids cant turn 14 before august first so I assure you there was no 15 year olds playing in this game. There are always going to be big kids, so just get over it.

You can spin it however you want but there are plenty that know what's going on and don't agree with it. I guess once these holdbacks actually have to play high school and can't just dominate kids their own size and AGE it's a reality check. Guess it doesn't help much since you never hear of any of their high schools doing much. Oh well I guess they can always brag about their middle school championships they won @ the 7th grade level at" cough" 14.

JC fans...Let's not do this. There is nothing worse than making excuses after a loss. Birth certificates were available on the sidelines if anyone had a question or complaint...and to my knowledge, no one asked to see them. Some kids mature faster than others...and sometimes the perfect storm hits and you see a team like we played today. S. Pulaski is an excellent football team with an excellent coaching staff. Hats off from this JC fan and congrats on the state championship! You guys deserved it!

Dillon Wrote:You can spin it however you want but there are plenty that know what's going on and don't agree with it. I guess once these holdbacks actually have to play high school and can't just dominate kids their own size and AGE it's a reality check. Guess it doesn't help much since you never hear of any of their high schools doing much. Oh well I guess they can always brag about their middle school championships they won @ the 7th grade level at" cough" 14.

I'm from Johnson County and if this isn't the "pot calling the kettle black", I don't know what is. It's almost common law to hold your kid back in this county and you know it. If a kid turns 14 in the 7th or 15 in the 8th as long as he does it after August 1st...it doesn't matter. My son is a SR at Paintsville this year and he along with pretty much every male in his class and along with all his male friends at JCHS are "Holdbacks".

The same thing happened to JC today that happened to Paintsville. They just ran into a better team. Hats off to JC for even making it to the Championship game and hats off to S. Pulaski for their Championship! The furtue is bright at BOTH our schools!

Congrats Southern!

OffTheHook Wrote:I'm from Johnson County and if this isn't the "pot calling the kettle black", I don't know what is. It's almost common law to hold your kid back in this county and you know it. If a kid turns 14 in the 7th or 15 in the 8th as long as he does it after August 1st...it doesn't matter. My son is a SR at Paintsville this year and he along with pretty much every male in his class and along with all his male friends at JCHS are "Holdbacks".

The same thing happened to JC today that happened to Paintsville. They just ran into a better team. Hats off to JC for even making it to the Championship game and hats off to S. Pulaski for their Championship! The furtue is bright at BOTH our schools!

I'm just wondering exactly how this has helped the high school team? I could be wrong but I don't recall any of these teams winning or playing in state championship games. So where is the so called development from holding back so many. Do they all of a sudden stop developing or is it a case of playing with your own age and realizing you're not as good as u think. Personally, and I'll be completely honest, I'm 100% against holding kids back to dominate a sport. No benefits to the kid or school. Check and see how many of these high schools play in the state tourney!

I agree with Hook, Johnson County cannot complain about another school holding kids back. I know that Johnson County 7th grade team has hold back kids. Not saying there is anything wrong with it, in fact I am a supporter of holding kids back. However, you can't complain when one school is better. The fact is the higher level in competition you face the more hold backs you are probably facing. I would say every middle school in the 14th and 15th region has at least one kid held back for sports.

kai Wrote:I agree with Hook, Johnson County cannot complain about another school holding kids back. I know that Johnson County 7th grade team has hold back kids. Not saying there is anything wrong with it, in fact I am a supporter of holding kids back. However, you can't complain when one school is better. The fact is the higher level in competition you face the more hold backs you are probably facing. I would say every middle school in the 14th and 15th region has at least one kid held back for sports.

I might be wrong, but I don't think the guy complaining is a JC fan.

that Lone Oak has a single 14 year old on our 7th grade team and still have many 12 year olds. I do know that some of our kids have turned 13 this year.

While it may hold us back a bit at the middle school level, our varsity HS team has been in the state championship game a couple of the past 5 years.

I didn't realize that you could be 14 in the 7th grade and play.

-gigiandgogo

Armchair QB Wrote:I might be wrong, but I don't think the guy complaining is a JC fan.

Armchair QB if you are referring to me you are right. I'm not a JC fan but a fan of fball. I'm not seeing any benefits that are helping these kids or high schools that are doing this. It's an unfair advantage. If everyone were doing it ok, but we know that's not the case

Ok, I am not a Johnson County football fan myself. Sorry, I jumped to that conclusion Dillion. However, I am opposite sides of you on the hold back issue, however I respect your opinion and beliefs on the issue. I only see the upside of the issue, the held back kids are more mature and I believe that one extra year can make a huge difference in development, and give the child more opportunities, does it always work that way no, but has it worked enough to make it worth trying yes. What is worst case, kid 18 or 19 starting college instead of 17. However, i strongly believe it is the parent's and child's choice, not a coach, school or anyone else. I have close friends who disagree and that is their right, i do what i feel is best for my kids as they do for theirs.

kai Wrote:Ok, I am not a Johnson County football fan myself. Sorry, I jumped to that conclusion Dillion. However, I am opposite sides of you on the hold back issue, however I respect your opinion and beliefs on the issue. I only see the upside of the issue, the held back kids are more mature and I believe that one extra year can make a huge difference in development, and give the child more opportunities, does it always work that way no, but has it worked enough to make it worth trying yes. What is worst case, kid 18 or 19 starting college instead of 17. However, i strongly believe it is the parent's and child's choice, not a coach, school or anyone else. I have close friends who disagree and that is their right, i do what i feel is best for my kids as they do for theirs.

More mature and physically developed than those not held back which as I said gives them a huge advantage on an unlevel playing field. There should be a separate division for schools that hold back. It's going to be an up hill climb for any school competing against them that doesn't hold back. I just hate to see the young kids that run into these teams and have not much of a chance at all to win to where they're discouraged from playing the game.

This argument will never end! Holdbacks arent going anywhere! There are bright spots to each argument. It is not an unfair advantage to hold a kid back because every school can do it! Anytime someone loses to a team that has holdbacks, they blame it on that. Well the rules say 15 before august first for 8th grade and 14 before august first for 7th, so as long as you arent 15/14 before august first you are legal. The same rules apply to high school except it is 19.

Those of you who have your kid in the 8th grade at 12-13 that is your choice. Are there huge differences in a 15 and 13 year old? Of course!!! There are still big differences between a 17-19 year old, although I agree it is not as significant.

[quote=kai] What is worst case, kid 18 or 19 starting college instead of 17. QUOTE]

I see this all the time when this comes up. If a student is going to ENTER college at 17 then they are young for their grade. That is not the case with these kids. It is the kids that will enter their Sr year at 18 and will turn 19 during that time which are an issue in MS sports. We are talking about in an 8th grade game a player could be 15 and playing against a 13 yr old depending on when the birthday falls.

In HS it doesn't make the difference unless maybe you are playing in one of the lower classes. In MS it makes a big difference.

RichBrooks Wrote:This argument will never end! Holdbacks arent going anywhere! There are bright spots to each argument. It is not an unfair advantage to hold a kid back because every school can do it! Anytime someone loses to a team that has holdbacks, they blame it on that. Well the rules say 15 before august first for 8th grade and 14 before august first for 7th, so as long as you arent 15/14 before august first you are legal. The same rules apply to high school except it is 19.

Those of you who have your kid in the 8th grade at 12-13 that is your choice. Are there huge differences in a 15 and 13 year old? Of course!!! There are still big differences between a 17-19 year old, although I agree it is not as significant.

Ok you state there is a huge difference between a 15 and 13 year old but you also state that it is not an unfair advantage. The fact is not in every district are you allowed to be held back and still play sports. Its a district by district thing.

I'll compare it to private schools. Ask the teams that have to compete with private schools if they think it is a level playing field.

if your district doesn't allow it then that is your district's fault. Kmsfa uses the same age requirement that khsaa uses.

When it isn't against the rules,is it "unfair"? Is it an advantage to be held back? Yes, but not an unfair advantage!

Dillon Wrote:Armchair QB if you are referring to me you are right. I'm not a JC fan but a fan of fball. I'm not seeing any benefits that are helping these kids or high schools that are doing this. It's an unfair advantage. If everyone were doing it ok, but we know that's not the case

Well tell us where you are from. Cause the way you went about it, you appeared to be from JC. So enlighten us please.

JC has holdbacks, Im sure Pulaski did too. Pulaski was the better team. JC beat Greenup, and we (GC) never once complained about getting beat because of holdbacks. We got beat by a better team and so did JC in the finals. Just accept it.

Kosar Wrote:JC has holdbacks, Im sure Pulaski did too. Pulaski was the better team. JC beat Greenup, and we (GC) never once complained about getting beat because of holdbacks. We got beat by a better team and so did JC in the finals. Just accept it.

Just to be clear. No one from JC is complaining.

So, if parents just choose to start their child a year late and they are still the same age as a hold back in 7th and 8th grade, is that different? Should that child be forced to play in a different division? There are age rules in place for elementary, middle and high school athletics. If a player fits the criteria and is eligible by these rules, why so much disdain for these kids? This is not something that is just now coming about. It has been going on forever. There seems to be a LOT of jealousy around because some teams are getting beat at their own game.

Kosar Wrote:JC has holdbacks, Im sure Pulaski did too. Pulaski was the better team. JC beat Greenup, and we (GC) never once complained about getting beat because of holdbacks. We got beat by a better team and so did JC in the finals. Just accept it.

We have accepted it coach. If you could see the Facebook post by our coaches, players, parents and administrators you would see that none are complaining. They are complimenting S. Pulaski as being the superior team and being proud of the accomplishments of our team. The one that is complaining is Dillon who has posted in 6 of the first 20 comments on this thread and in his 4th post admitted that he is not a JC fan.

Is it the parents starting the kids late, or doing it later in their school days when they find out they are going to be involved in athletics?

The complaint is that while it is an "individual" decision for the parents, is it really? It is orgainized and done in mass. Individual decision my foot. Who are you trying to convince, us or yourself?

No one has disdain for the kids. That has been reserved for the adults in this situation who have organized this mess.

Just because something has been going on forever, does not make it right.

Beat at their own game. Let me see, holding back a child from his grade in school so we can be superior in athletics to the next county over so we can try to beat'em and win that title. That is classic.

Funny thing is, this will never end and is a waste of time to continue to discuss. Enjoy your titles everybody, they are what's important after all. :lmao: