[Bulldogs4Ever]

I was talking to a friend of mine last night that coaches at Perry about the old local rivalry  He said a local business offered to donate 25,000 dollars to each schools football program if the games would take place at the high school and middle school levels next year.  He told me that Hazard declined the offer and would not play Perry.  I think this rivalry should take place.  Wonder why Hazard won’t play?

[zaga_fan]

Tell them I'll get a squad and suit up in whatever color jersey they want for $25k

[TheStickyBandit]

I would love to see this rivalry pick back up in football. When these two play in other sports it's always a great atmosphere and I would imagine that the intensity would increase for football. 

Hazard would benefit from this game from an RPI stand point, right? Someone please correct me on that if I am wrong. 

I would think Hazard would like to get a weaker team off of their schedule and replace them with a decent Perry team. 

Seems like when these two teams use to play I recall it being called the "Black Gold Bowl", am I remembering that correctly?

[DukeBoy]

Hazard should play PCC. They have nothing to lose. Same goes for PCC. Just be a good football game where people don’t have to drive 200 miles to go watch a game. May be a few fights, lettem fight.

[wolfcat]

I loved this rivalry. It was usually played 3rd Friday in Sept during Black Gold Festival. It was always a great atmosphere even when Perry played at their old field. It was usually a pretty big deal all over town and games were usually standing room only. Now that Hazard and Perry have 2 pretty good programs it would be even better

[Hoot Gibson]

IMO, it would be a mistake for PCC to sell a spot on its schedule for a 1A team. A 4A team serious about building a football program should not be including 1A teams on their schedules under most circumstances. I would make exceptions for bowl games where a 1A team is expected to be very good (e.g., Pikeville returning most players from a state championship team) but I would not make any commitments to schedule 1A teams on a continuing basis. PCC has had a football long enough that they should realize they are doing something wrong if Hazard can still compete with them.

[TheStickyBandit]

IMO, it would be a mistake for PCC to sell a spot on its schedule for a 1A team. A 4A team serious about building a football program should not be including 1A teams on their schedules under most circumstances. I would make exceptions for bowl games where a 1A team is expected to be very good (e.g., Pikeville returning most players from a state championship team) but I would not make any commitments to schedule 1A teams on a continuing basis. PCC has had a football long enough that they should realize they are doing something wrong if Hazard can still compete with them.

Perry already has Paintsville and Williamsburg on their schedule and Hazard is better than both of those teams. Hazard is pretty good year in and year out. Perry should replace one of the teams I mentioned with Hazard.

[Hoot Gibson]

IMO, it would be a mistake for PCC to sell a spot on its schedule for a 1A team. A 4A team serious about building a football program should not be including 1A teams on their schedules under most circumstances. I would make exceptions for bowl games where a 1A team is expected to be very good (e.g., Pikeville returning most players from a state championship team) but I would not make any commitments to schedule 1A teams on a continuing basis. PCC has had a football long enough that they should realize they are doing something wrong if Hazard can still compete with them.

Perry already has Paintsville and Williamsburg on their schedule and Hazard is better than both of those teams. Hazard is pretty good year in and year out. Perry should replace one of the teams I mentioned with Hazard.

Good point. Perry needs a major overhaul of their schedule. Perry's administration should be embarrassed that they have a football program that has been around for so many years and are still struggling to compete with much smaller schools. Perry County has wasted a lot of talent over the years and have fielded a few decent teams but they have failed to build a successful football program. You do not build a successful program by scheduling down every year. It took Johnson Central a long time to reach that realization but the administration finally got it right.

[TheStickyBandit]

IMO, it would be a mistake for PCC to sell a spot on its schedule for a 1A team. A 4A team serious about building a football program should not be including 1A teams on their schedules under most circumstances. I would make exceptions for bowl games where a 1A team is expected to be very good (e.g., Pikeville returning most players from a state championship team) but I would not make any commitments to schedule 1A teams on a continuing basis. PCC has had a football long enough that they should realize they are doing something wrong if Hazard can still compete with them.

Perry already has Paintsville and Williamsburg on their schedule and Hazard is better than both of those teams. Hazard is pretty good year in and year out. Perry should replace one of the teams I mentioned with Hazard.

Good point. Perry needs a major overhaul of their schedule. Perry's administration should be embarrassed that they have a football program that has been around for so many years and are still struggling to compete with much smaller schools. Perry County has wasted a lot of talent over the years and have fielded a few decent teams but they have failed to build a successful football program. You do not build a successful program by scheduling down every year. It took Johnson Central a long time to reach that realization but the administration finally got it right.

My guess is that Perry admin is more concerned with basketball and baseball than football. Those are the two sports that Perry is usually pretty tough in.

[Fan of many]

What does each team have to lose?
It’s called Recruits

[Hoot Gibson]

IMO, it would be a mistake for PCC to sell a spot on its schedule for a 1A team. A 4A team serious about building a football program should not be including 1A teams on their schedules under most circumstances. I would make exceptions for bowl games where a 1A team is expected to be very good (e.g., Pikeville returning most players from a state championship team) but I would not make any commitments to schedule 1A teams on a continuing basis. PCC has had a football long enough that they should realize they are doing something wrong if Hazard can still compete with them.

Perry already has Paintsville and Williamsburg on their schedule and Hazard is better than both of those teams. Hazard is pretty good year in and year out. Perry should replace one of the teams I mentioned with Hazard.

Good point. Perry needs a major overhaul of their schedule. Perry's administration should be embarrassed that they have a football program that has been around for so many years and are still struggling to compete with much smaller schools. Perry County has wasted a lot of talent over the years and have fielded a few decent teams but they have failed to build a successful football program. You do not build a successful program by scheduling down every year. It took Johnson Central a long time to reach that realization but the administration finally got it right.

My guess is that Perry admin is more concerned with basketball and baseball than football. Those are the two sports that Perry is usually pretty tough in.

I am sure that you are right about that. My comments in this thread apply to any school that has had a football program for many years but failed to build a good program - they should not be considered as shots at PCC.

[dodger]

IMO, it would be a mistake for PCC to sell a spot on its schedule for a 1A team. A 4A team serious about building a football program should not be including 1A teams on their schedules under most circumstances. I would make exceptions for bowl games where a 1A team is expected to be very good (e.g., Pikeville returning most players from a state championship team) but I would not make any commitments to schedule 1A teams on a continuing basis. PCC has had a football long enough that they should realize they are doing something wrong if Hazard can still compete with them.

Unless you're talking about Perry playing all schools 5A or larger, I'm not sure that 1A isn't more competitive than 2A and 3A in Eastern Kentucky. The "big 5" of Eastern Kentucky 1A football (Pikeville, Hazard, Raceland, Williamsburg, Paintsville) is stronger than any group of five schools at the 2A level in the area. Not sure that the same isn't the case when you get into 3A now that Belfry and Bell aren't the monsters they've been in the past. I'd say just play good programs and not worry about the 1A or 2A label. Getting rid of Paintsville and Williamsburg to play bad and mediocre 4A and 5A types wouldn't be much of a step forward.

[Hoot Gibson]

IMO, it would be a mistake for PCC to sell a spot on its schedule for a 1A team. A 4A team serious about building a football program should not be including 1A teams on their schedules under most circumstances. I would make exceptions for bowl games where a 1A team is expected to be very good (e.g., Pikeville returning most players from a state championship team) but I would not make any commitments to schedule 1A teams on a continuing basis. PCC has had a football long enough that they should realize they are doing something wrong if Hazard can still compete with them.

Unless you're talking about Perry playing all schools 5A or larger, I'm not sure that 1A isn't more competitive than 2A and 3A in Eastern Kentucky.  The "big 5" of Eastern Kentucky 1A football (Pikeville, Hazard, Raceland, Williamsburg, Paintsville) is stronger than any group of five schools at the 2A level in the area.  Not sure that the same isn't the case when you get into 3A now that Belfry and Bell aren't the monsters they've been in the past.  I'd say just play good programs and not worry about the 1A or 2A label.  Getting rid of Paintsville and Williamsburg to play bad and mediocre 4A and 5A types wouldn't be much of a step forward.

I agree that playing bad 4A and 5A teams wouldn't be a step forward but there are good 3A-5A teams within a reasonable bus drive. The problem may be convincing some of those teams that playing PCC would do them any good. Once Johnson Central had better coaches and an administration that was determined to build a good football program, JC began upgrading their schedule as quickly as possible. Sometimes, they have had to settle for the best small school teams that would play them, such as Ironton this season, but they have tried to schedule teams that would allow them to work on weaknesses to help prepare for the playoffs.

Every 4A team in PCC's district should be working toward a district title and the playoffs every season and struggling with weak 1A teams isn't getting them any closer to a district title or home playoff game. (The same can be said of most Kentucky high school football teams. There are too few good teams in every class. Running clocks are way to common.)

[jetpilot]

I agree. Never play a team whose school has fewer students than your school even though they are better than you 90% of the time and better than most teams on your schedule, especially if it might help your team get better plus raise a bunch of money for your program. Not to mention it would be a big event for your city and county. Just use Belfry/Pikeville as an example, what a flop that series has been.

[Hoot Gibson]

I agree. Never play a team whose school has fewer students than your school even though they are better than you 90% of the time and better than most teams on your schedule, especially if it might help your team get better plus raise a bunch of money for your program. Not to mention it would be a big event for your city and county. Just use Belfry/Pikeville as an example, what a flop that series has been.

You are being just a tad inconsistent here, Jet. On the one hand, you have been touting Pikeville as a potential giant killer of teams like Trinity, but here you are encouraging a 4A school to take an RPI hit and schedule 1A schools instead of scheduling teams from higher classes. You recognize the benefits of Pikeville playing the big boys but are blind to the benefits of a 4A team scheduling good teams from larger classes.

I think the RPI is a big downgrade from the old system of rewarding district winners and alternating home fields from year to year, but if Corbin had played another good 5A or 6A team and won instead of beating Pikeville, then the Redhounds would not be sitting on an undefeated record waiting for other teams to decide where they play in the third round. In reality, the best teams win almost as frequently on the road as they do at home, but having a playoff system that drives scheduling decisions was and is a bad idea. The RPI just adds another reason that schools should schedule good teams in or near their own class, as much as possible.

[jetpilot]

I agree with most of that. But there is room for rivalry games. I also think RPI awards small schools too much for playing up and penalizes large schools too much for playing down. I think make your schedule the best you can and worry about RPI later if at all. Doesn’t help teams play out of state teams either which contributes to excellent programs like JC and Pikeville not having a full schedule.

[Hoot Gibson]

I agree with most of that. But there is room for rivalry games. I also think RPI awards small schools too much for playing up and penalizes large schools too much for playing down. I think make your schedule the best you can and worry about RPI later if at all. Doesn’t help teams play out of state teams either which contributes to excellent programs like JC and Pikeville not having a full schedule.

I agree with you that schools should schedule the schools that help their teams become better. I have no insider information, but I believe that Johnson Central has scheduled some smaller teams in the past to address some weakness, especially defending good passing teams with D1 quarterback recruits. This year, Ironton has a D1 quarterback, a d1 wide receiver, and a 3 or 4-star running back, depending on the source of the rating.

I would much rather see JC lose to a very good out of state team and suffer an RPI hit as to put a running clock on an in state team. In the past, Capital and Sourh Charleston had some very athletic teams with great skills players but they have been way down recently, so Ironton was probably the closest team available to help prepare for athletic teams with good passing games that they may face in the playoffs.

If I were scheduling for JC, I would try to keep Letcher Central on the schedule, regardless of reclassification. If LCC could play consistently at the level they showed at JC, then they would be competitive with anybody in eastern Kentucky. JC played well overall but LCC made them pay for every mistake. Fortunately, JC did a great job managing the clock and moving the chains to take the lead without leaving LCC much time to mount a comeback.

If PCC is serious about building a football program, then maybe they should reach out to LCC and keep them on the schedule if one of the teams moves up or down a class.

[jetpilot]

Agree with you on LCC and to take a page out of your book they should be good they are a large school. But not just because of that, Whitesburg and Fleming-Neon had some great teams back in the day in 2A and A respectively in the old 4 class system. They were known as among hardest hitting teams around. If they keep up their momentum they are going to be a big problem for everyone they face. Also I highly recommend if you are able to make it happen to take in a game at their stadium. Beautiful mountain venue with huge Jumbotron to boot.

[ROTC]

IMO, it would be a mistake for PCC to sell a spot on its schedule for a 1A team. A 4A team serious about building a football program should not be including 1A teams on their schedules under most circumstances. I would make exceptions for bowl games where a 1A team is expected to be very good (e.g., Pikeville returning most players from a state championship team) but I would not make any commitments to schedule 1A teams on a continuing basis. PCC has had a football long enough that they should realize they are doing something wrong if Hazard can still compete with them.

Unless you're talking about Perry playing all schools 5A or larger, I'm not sure that 1A isn't more competitive than 2A and 3A in Eastern Kentucky.  The "big 5" of Eastern Kentucky 1A football (Pikeville, Hazard, Raceland, Williamsburg, Paintsville) is stronger than any group of five schools at the 2A level in the area.  Not sure that the same isn't the case when you get into 3A now that Belfry and Bell aren't the monsters they've been in the past.  I'd say just play good programs and not worry about the 1A or 2A label.  Getting rid of Paintsville and Williamsburg to play bad and mediocre 4A and 5A types wouldn't be much of a step forward.

I agree that playing bad 4A and 5A teams wouldn't be a step forward but there are good 3A-5A teams within a reasonable bus drive. The problem may be convincing some of those teams that playing PCC would do them any good. Once Johnson Central had better coaches and an administration that was determined to build a good football program, JC began upgrading their schedule as quickly as possible. Sometimes, they have had to settle for the best small school teams that would play them, such as Ironton this season, but they have tried to schedule teams that would allow them to work on weaknesses to help prepare for the playoffs.

Every 4A team in PCC's district should be working toward a district title and the playoffs every season and struggling with weak 1A teams isn't getting them any closer to a district title or home playoff game. (The same can be said of most Kentucky high school football teams. There are too few good teams in every class. Running clocks are way to common.)

Sorry I have to call “balderdash” on parts of this.  I know for a 100% fact that Johnson Central offered a perennially weak 2-A team $5,000 to come and play them after successfully recruiting two of this struggling program’s players.

[Rookieoftheyear]

A lot of you all are acting like Perry’s a legit 4a team and scheduling hazard would really hurt them. Perry’s no legit 4a team. Only thing it would hurt would be pride. Hazard is always better year in and year out. When’s the last time you’ve saw a truly good Perry central team?

[Hoot Gibson]

IMO, it would be a mistake for PCC to sell a spot on its schedule for a 1A team. A 4A team serious about building a football program should not be including 1A teams on their schedules under most circumstances. I would make exceptions for bowl games where a 1A team is expected to be very good (e.g., Pikeville returning most players from a state championship team) but I would not make any commitments to schedule 1A teams on a continuing basis. PCC has had a football long enough that they should realize they are doing something wrong if Hazard can still compete with them.

Unless you're talking about Perry playing all schools 5A or larger, I'm not sure that 1A isn't more competitive than 2A and 3A in Eastern Kentucky.  The "big 5" of Eastern Kentucky 1A football (Pikeville, Hazard, Raceland, Williamsburg, Paintsville) is stronger than any group of five schools at the 2A level in the area.  Not sure that the same isn't the case when you get into 3A now that Belfry and Bell aren't the monsters they've been in the past.  I'd say just play good programs and not worry about the 1A or 2A label.  Getting rid of Paintsville and Williamsburg to play bad and mediocre 4A and 5A types wouldn't be much of a step forward.

I agree that playing bad 4A and 5A teams wouldn't be a step forward but there are good 3A-5A teams within a reasonable bus drive. The problem may be convincing some of those teams that playing PCC would do them any good. Once Johnson Central had better coaches and an administration that was determined to build a good football program, JC began upgrading their schedule as quickly as possible. Sometimes, they have had to settle for the best small school teams that would play them, such as Ironton this season, but they have tried to schedule teams that would allow them to work on weaknesses to help prepare for the playoffs.

Every 4A team in PCC's district should be working toward a district title and the playoffs every season and struggling with weak 1A teams isn't getting them any closer to a district title or home playoff game. (The same can be said of most Kentucky high school football teams. There are too few good teams in every class. Running clocks are way to common.)

Sorry I have to call “balderdash” on parts of this.  I know for a 100% fact that Johnson Central offered a perennially weak 2-A team $5,000 to come and play them after successfully recruiting two of this struggling program’s players.

A fan of a team that relies on transfers to plug holes in their lineup is probably not one who should be casting stones. Sorry, but I don't believe you.