[WideZero]

Tell me which one is the best coach in KY...

[EKUAlum05]

My list may be a bit controversial

1. Mueller- Does absolutely the most with what he has to work with. has made Highlands a National Level Program despite being a smaller school. Has won championship upon championship while essentially playing up for years.



2. Haywood- Speaking in terms of doing more with less, only Mueller has a better claim. The all-time wins leader has done so despite having only 4-5 kids who were recruited to a D1 level in his tenure.
3. Beatty- Though his talent pool is unprecedented and he has essentially a collegiate staff at his disposal, respect is certainly earned for his ability to dominate his similar rival (St. X) and to place Trinity as an elite National program.



4. Scroggins- What he has done in his short time frame at Central is nothing short of astonishing. He has turned Central into one of the elite programs in the State despite a massive lack of financial backing, facilities, or support. The only knock against Scroggins is longevity.
5. Holcomb- Another in the mold of the overachievers. He has turned a small county school into a Kentucky powerhouse and a factory for quality HS QB's.

[Micro-Brew]

Def agree with your top 3 EKU. I would also bet that all of these guys would defer any type of hoopla to their kids, staff, community or anything other than their own abilities. A knowledgeable and consistant staff as you eluded to are necessities but that head coach makes everything go. You couldn't go wrong with any of those top three. But back to the question.....I would go with _______. Until I spent ample time with both of the aforementioned coaches, I wouldn't dare say which one is a better coach. Great, Great programs and any community should feel fortunate to have them.

[Real Badman]

Beatty. Mueller is a great coach, but Highlands is just dominate in 5(4)A. If they were to move up to 6A would we see Beatty make Highlands just another W? Could Highlands hold their own annually? You could almost instantly write of the multiple consecutive titles. I'm going to go ahead and say Beatty.

[toussaints]

It's a tough one, both guys are great at recruiting

[sstack]

Beatty. Mueller is a great coach, but Highlands is just dominate in 5(4)A. If they were to move up to 6A would we see Beatty make Highlands just another W? Could Highlands hold their own annually? You could almost instantly write of the multiple consecutive titles. I'm going to go ahead and say Beatty.

Do you realize how small of a school Highlands is? It is amazing how they can compete with the big schools in the state. Would they ever beat Trinity annually? The answer is no, but Beatty could not coach at Highlands and beat Trinity annually either. Trinity just has too big of numbers and large area of talent pool for other teams to beat on an annual basis. What other 3A school in KY has the balls to play Trinity, whether it be a regular season game or a preseason game? ( That's right, do not forget that HHS is a 3A school that was playing up in 5A until last year when the KY athletic association moved them down to 4A!).

[WideRight05]

Obviously I would take Mueller but I am biased lol. Great coach, even better man.

And I'm sure the same could be said for Beatty. Trinity has great numbers and a lot to work with. But I think that Beatty could also come to a school with less to work with and still do awesome.

[bulldog42]

Coke or Pepsi? I think it's what flavor you like not sure one is that much greater than the other. I've coached against both. Both are outstanding at every phase of a program!

[RunItUpTheGut]

Neither.

Considering these two have had great players with a lot of talent gave to them over the years, im not sure anyone can tell how "good" of a coach they are. You put speed and strength on the field over another team and it doesnt take much coaching.

I'd have to go with Haywood or Hilton, and i'm not being a biased mountain fan. Both of these guys have taken small teams and beat the dog crap out of people year after year. Haywood maybe the best ever and had Hilton stayed he could have probably been right there in wins with haywood. I would even go as far as putting Holcomb at number 3 on the list.

[WideRight05]

^ Hilton is a good coach. Definitely knows his stuff. He won a state title at Bourbon county for crying out loud. He is really good at what he does. Haywood is good too, the thing with Haywood that makes me hesitant to put him up here is the number of times he has been to the state title game and lost. He is a really good coach though. One of the few that sticks to the old wishbone style and knows how to succeed with it.

[Real Badman]

Do you realize how small of a school Highlands is? It is amazing how they can compete with the big schools in the state. Would they ever beat Trinity annually? The answer is no, but Beatty could not coach at Highlands and beat Trinity annually either. Trinity just has too big of numbers and large area of talent pool for other teams to beat on an annual basis. What other 3A school in KY has the balls to play Trinity, whether it be a regular season game or a preseason game? ( That's right, do not forget that HHS is a 3A school that was playing up in 5A until last year when the KY athletic association moved them down to 4A!).

What does numbers have to do with anything? I simply stated that they both win, but Mueller couldn't compete with Trinity at 6A, could Mueller compete in Highlands class? Well that wasn't the point I was getting at. Beatty has more competition in 6A then Mueller has at 4A.

[WideZero]

What the hell? These other coaches don't have near as many titles COMBINED as mueller or Beatty...

[RunItUpTheGut]

^ Hilton is a good coach. Definitely knows his stuff. He won a state title at Bourbon county for crying out loud. He is really good at what he does. Haywood is good too, the thing with Haywood that makes me hesitant to put him up here is the number of times he has been to the state title game and lost. He is a really good coach though. One of the few that sticks to the old wishbone style and knows how to succeed with it.

Glad to see you not take that the wrong way.
I seriously wasn't trolling.

First off, Trinity is a private school. End of discussion. There always going to get good players.
Highlands is Highlands. Their feeder program and the fact that they have kids that WANT to go there make that program what it is. But as i said before, when you have talent and more importantly, SPEED every year in KY high school football, it automatically give you an edge up on everyone. Trust me, i watched Highlands out run Whitley 4 years ago. We were at the top of our game and still couldn't keep up with the speed that Highlands brought and their recievers just made us look silly.

Being a good coach doesnt mean how many championhips you have. It's how you make the kids your coaching better and how far you progress their game.

I look at a good coach as someone who takes what little they have whether that be talent wise or facilty wise and turn it into a powerhouse by their coaching abilities alone. Haywood and Hilton both did that. To be able to run a offense that it 90% run and dominate programs from all over the state is huge, not to mention the fact that they even compete with programs that have much more than them. Take Bell for example always being in the mix of things with Boyle and Highlands and even beating them. You just can't argue the fact that these two are good. It's a shame that there time on this earth is getting shorter because the game never seemed to pass them by.

[RunItUpTheGut]

What the hell? These other coaches don't have near as many titles COMBINED as mueller or Beatty...

This is the reason eveyone know you know nothing about coaching.
I could have coached Highlands or Trinity to some of the titles they have won off of pure talent and speed alone.

[charlie22]

This is the reason eveyone know you know nothing about coaching.
I could have coached Highlands or Trinity to some of the titles they have won off of pure talent and speed alone.

You are not giving Mueller enough credit for developing and using that talent and speed. I've seen a whole lot and I mean a whole lot of kids that weren't very talented or fast as frosh and sophomores turn into very talented and very fast players by their senior year because of coaching and because of the coaches knowing the buttons to push to motivate the players to work hard to develop their talent and improve their speed. My oldest son is the perfect example of that happening. A slow, heavy and not very talented O linemen his sophomore year: a lean and fast all state O lineman his senior year. While a lot of credit goes to my son for that turn around, I'd be a fool to think that Dale and his asst coaches didn't play a large role also.


Even then, with the talent and speed developed, it must be placed in the right position and must be properly utilized. The offensive and defensive schemes developed and used by Dale and his asst coaches have played a huge role in Highlands past success.

I have no idea of your coaching skills so I can't deny that you could have coached Highlands or Trinity to some of their titles. But I do know that that it is no where near as easy as you want to make it seem. I've seen plenty and I mean plenty of talented and fast teams lose over the years.

[Iam4thecats]

Both Mueller and Beatty are on UNPRECEDENTED runs at thier schools. No coach before them has been able to do what they have done. The only other coach in thier league is Chuck Smith and we know what has happened to him.

[toussaints]

Both Beatty and Mueller are great coaches, but look at the programs their coaching. Both Highlands and Trinity have been winning long before either coach took over at their respective schools. Now, Meuller and Beatty have put their programs at an even higher level than where it's ever been, but they've both benefitted from having great resources making that possible. Both coaches get kids from all over their region (not a myth, that's a fact). Both coaches benefit from great youth programs that feed into their programs. Statistically, they're the 2 best coaches in the state in the last decade. However...

I don't know of any other coach in the state that has done what Scroggins did at Central in that short of a time frame and in those circumstances. Right now, Scroggins gets my vote as the best coach in the Bluegrass

[WideRight05]

Glad to see you not take that the wrong way.
I seriously wasn't trolling.

First off, Trinity is a private school. End of discussion. There always going to get good players.
Highlands is Highlands. Their feeder program and the fact that they have kids that WANT to go there make that program what it is. But as i said before, when you have talent and more importantly, SPEED every year in KY high school football, it automatically give you an edge up on everyone. Trust me, i watched Highlands out run Whitley 4 years ago. We were at the top of our game and still couldn't keep up with the speed that Highlands brought and their recievers just made us look silly.

Being a good coach doesnt mean how many championhips you have. It's how you make the kids your coaching better and how far you progress their game.

I look at a good coach as someone who takes what little they have whether that be talent wise or facilty wise and turn it into a powerhouse by their coaching abilities alone. Haywood and Hilton both did that. To be able to run a offense that it 90% run and dominate programs from all over the state is huge, not to mention the fact that they even compete with programs that have much more than them. Take Bell for example always being in the mix of things with Boyle and Highlands and even beating them. You just can't argue the fact that these two are good. It's a shame that there time on this earth is getting shorter because the game never seemed to pass them by.

As to the bolded, I enjoy your posts RIUTG and definitely enjoy giving you a hard time over the Shabazz prediction haha. But feel free to speak your mind to me on anything, I don't troll and really just use this trolling gimmick as a joke. But agree, disagree, regardless of what you choose, I enjoy reading it and definitely enjoy the discussion you bring on here. You have a lot of knowledge. I take everything very lightly and with a grain of salt...WideZero...now that's another ballgame lol.

But as to your post, I do agree somewhat about the championships part. And in all reality, it's more about developing good, honest young men that contribute to society. Beatty, Mueller, Haywood, Hilton, any good coach in the state has that as their first priority. Mueller always says that he would be a failure as a coach if he had all these championships and wasn't having a positive impact on his players' lives.

The thing about Dudley Hilton's teams is that like you said, they were dominant using an offense that ran 90% of the time. Hilton's teams were a big threat with the pass though. They always had a QB that could throw a good ball and usually had one or two receivers that could catch really well. Belfry, however, is a dominant run team but I do not see them as a huge threat with the pass. They always have a QB that makes smart reads and is capable of running the ball well, but passing the ball seems to be more of a weakness with Belfry than something they always use once in a while. I feel that has prevented them from being able to win more titles and keep up with the Boyle's, Bell's, Highlands, etc. But there is no question that Haywood knows his stuff and is a good guy. Good thing is with him too is that, at least by looking at him, he has quite a few years of coaching left in him.

[sstack]

What does numbers have to do with anything? I simply stated that they both win, but Mueller couldn't compete with Trinity at 6A, could Mueller compete in Highlands class? Well that wasn't the point I was getting at. Beatty has more competition in 6A then Mueller has at 4A.

Numbers mean a lot! When you are trying to make a team, the larger group of boys you have to pick from the better chance you have to find better and more talented kids. Just pointing out that Trinity has a huge numbers advantage over HHS, which gives them more talented players and deeper bench.

[sstack]

QUOTE=RunItUpTheGut;1440662]This is the reason eveyone know you know nothing about coaching.
I could have coached Highlands or Trinity to some of the titles they have won off of pure talent and speed alone.[/QUOTE]

You are not giving these coaches enough credit. I have seen many teams with more size and speed than HHS over the years, who could not come close to playing with them. Why?, because HHS was better coached. A good example that quickly comes to mind is recently in the playoffs agianst Bryan Station. BS was much, much bigger and just as fast if not faster than HHS and the only way HHS won was due to much, much better coaching. To this day I still think BS was the more talented team, but the coaching was terrible.

[RunItUpTheGut]

As to the bolded, I enjoy your posts RIUTG and definitely enjoy giving you a hard time over the Shabazz prediction haha. But feel free to speak your mind to me on anything, I don't troll and really just use this trolling gimmick as a joke. But agree, disagree, regardless of what you choose, I enjoy reading it and definitely enjoy the discussion you bring on here. You have a lot of knowledge. I take everything very lightly and with a grain of salt...WideZero...now that's another ballgame lol.

But as to your post, I do agree somewhat about the championships part. And in all reality, it's more about developing good, honest young men that contribute to society. Beatty, Mueller, Haywood, Hilton, any good coach in the state has that as their first priority. Mueller always says that he would be a failure as a coach if he had all these championships and wasn't having a positive impact on his players' lives.

The thing about Dudley Hilton's teams is that like you said, they were dominant using an offense that ran 90% of the time. Hilton's teams were a big threat with the pass though. They always had a QB that could throw a good ball and usually had one or two receivers that could catch really well. Belfry, however, is a dominant run team but I do not see them as a huge threat with the pass. They always have a QB that makes smart reads and is capable of running the ball well, but passing the ball seems to be more of a weakness with Belfry than something they always use once in a while. I feel that has prevented them from being able to win more titles and keep up with the Boyle's, Bell's, Highlands, etc. But there is no question that Haywood knows his stuff and is a good guy. Good thing is with him too is that, at least by looking at him, he has quite a few years of coaching left in him.

I completely agree. Good post.

[RunItUpTheGut]

You are not giving these coaches enough credit. I have seen many teams with more size and speed than HHS over the years, who could not come close to playing with them. Why?, because HHS was better coached. A good example that quickly comes to mind is recently in the playoffs agianst Bryan Station. BS was much, much bigger and just as fast if not faster than HHS and the only way HHS won was due to much, much better coaching. To this day I still think BS was the more talented team, but the coaching was terrible.

I'm not saying that Mueller is a bad coach at all. I just firmly believe the other two are better.
He is obviously doing something right to be winning a championship year after year, but anyone who has watched Highlands just for the last five years knows that those Highlands teams were loaded with talent and speed.
I remember the Bryan Station game. I would have loved to been at that one. And yes i agree that it was probably Muellers coaching that done the trick that night. What did it end up being 28-22? or something like that. I know Bryan Station should have won like you said.

Both of these guys are good, but i've just seen a lot more of Belfry and Bell both over the years and knew what those two men done for those schools. Trinity and Highlands already had programs. Hilton and Haywood MADE Bell and Belfry a program.

[LaFlamaBlanca]

What does numbers have to do with anything? I simply stated that they both win, but Mueller couldn't compete with Trinity at 6A, could Mueller compete in Highlands class? Well that wasn't the point I was getting at. Beatty has more competition in 6A then Mueller has at 4A.

If numbers dont mean anything, then do you believe that, if Beatty coached and Highlands and Mueller coached at Trinity, Highlands would consistently beat Trinity because of Beatty?

[hsfan1785]

Gotta say Mueller. He has a smaller talent pool and just wins, and wins, and wins. And his competitions have a much greater chance of closing the gap. No one in KY 6A can close the gap on trinity other than St. X and they aren't getting it done.

[chance_rollin]

We can all talk about winning, titles, numbers, coaching talented players, Size speed and so much more.

Its not how well a team did or how well they are going too be.
But at the end of the day when all those young men leave school move on with their lives and 10-20 years down the line what kind of men have they become, "are they blessings to their community" what kind of husband are they too their wife...what kind of father are they to their kids.At some point football will end but the life lesson they take from the game will always be there.

If any coach listed or talked about here has what i stated then they are all winner in my book. Because thats the only stat that matters. It would of been an honor to have been coached by anyone of them.

[hsfan1785]

Agreed on all points chance

[VikingFan]

This is what makes Highlands the top program in the state, and Mueller the best coach in the state.

I played for Haywood, spent time with Hilton, both are amazing, and get more done with less than any other coach in the state.

I went to a Highlands practice this spring and spent some time with Coach Mueller, he is from a different mold than the other two. I'm not saying a better mold, different. He has a scientific approach to the game, unlike anyone I have ever meet. I have changed more of my coaching philosophy this year as a result of the little time I spent with Coach Mueller.

Coach Mueller is in a class of his own,,,to me.

[birdman44]

This is the reason eveyone know you know nothing about coaching.
I could have coached Highlands or Trinity to some of the titles they have won off of pure talent and speed alone.

Thanks for bringing the truth to a head. Highlands football players are just better than other kids. the coaching has nothing to do with it. Dale sits back reads the paper and the state championships just roll in.
better faster stronger smarter. Highlands football forever

[birdman44]

This is what makes Highlands the top program in the state, and Mueller the best coach in the state.

I played for Haywood, spent time with Hilton, both are amazing, and get more done with less than any other coach in the state.

I went to a Highlands practice this spring and spent some time with Coach Mueller, he is from a different mold than the other two. I'm not saying a better mold, different. He has a scientific approach to the game, unlike anyone I have ever meet. I have changed more of my coaching philosophy this year as a result of the little time I spent with Coach Mueller.

Coach Mueller is in a class of his own,,,to me.

great words. exactly right on how he is. he shows you how to do it the right way and how to have fun doing that way.

my favorite Mueller quote:
practice doesn't make perfect.
perfect practice makes perfect.

[WideRight05]

I know people often wonder if Beatty could win at Highlands like Dale does...I think he could.

Here is the thing about both coaches. If you think they win just on talent alone, you're dead wrong. Trinity has schools like St. X that is usually right on their level, and other schools like Scott County and Simon Kenton that have proven capable of competing with them every few years. To get through that division is not a cakewalk. It is 6A. The largest class in KY. There are a lot of really good teams and you should bring your A game every night. Highlands has a tough class as well. If we rely on talent alone against Lexington Catholic, Covington Catholic, Ashland, Johnson Central, etc. we are not going to win. It takes much, much more.

Beatty coaches at Trinity, and being such a huge private school he does have a ton of talent up there. He should be contending for a state title every year, but he's not doing just that. Trinity is competing to be the #1 school in the nation for back to back years. Football in Kentucky doesn't receive the exposure that the Florida, Texas, and California teams get, which makes it that much harder for any team to ever win the title. But he didn't let that stop him and through his great leadership he led Trinity to #1. They also have a great chance of doing it again given that they return their skill players on offense. I know he will have a line, and a defense that will be tough. I have no doubt that Beatty would succeed well at Highlands because of that. He took a great school and made it greater. He didn't just meet expectations and he certainly didn't disappoint.

I am confident Dale Mueller could do the same thing at Trinity that Beatty as done. Dale has, as a previous poster mentioned, a scientific approach to the game of football. He knows his stuff and is a great leader for the kids. He led Highlands to a strong finish at #2 in the country a couple of years ago, which is extremely tough given the situation here compared to the big states, as I had mentioned in my paragraph about Beatty. Highlands is a traditional powerhouse, but winning 5 straight titles is just ridiculous. Trinity has a lot of big, big massive kids (and they can move). Highlands does not. I cannot tell you how many people have seen our team play in recent years and compliment that our team does so well given that our teams are so small LOL. Dale stresses speed, speed, and more speed instead of brute strength and he has won big using that philosophy.

The bottom line is, it's fun to debate but I don't think anybody will ever know. I take Mueller just because I'm biased. I think it is an even match between the two. But Beatty should not be discredited just because he is at Trinity and has the athletes he does...it takes much, much more than that to win and any coach will tell you that.