Bluegrassrivals

cougarpride08 Wrote:A very good point made. Taking way to long. The NCAA is milking this as long as they can.

Do you really think the NCAA is trying to delay this? If so, WHY?

Something as simple as elgibility even though they resubmit the info shouldn't take this long. Are you going to tell me that if Vandy, Ole Miss or even Florida would have taken this long?

cougarpride08 Wrote:Something as simple as elgibility even though they resubmit the info shouldn't take this long. Are you going to tell me that if Vandy, Ole Miss or even Florida would have taken this long?

LOL, absolutely. I can't believe people really think that this is because it's UK. I'm as much a UK fan as any, but good lord, this is not a conspiracy.

Stardust Wrote:LOL, absolutely. I can't believe people really think that this is because it's UK. I'm as much a UK fan as any, but good lord, this is not a conspiracy.

This delay isn't because this is a UK case. You are correct about that.

I'll tell you one thing though, this is taking way too long. The talk now is that the NCAA is now implementing rule changes and are going to base Kanter's ruling on that.

How can they do that?! This all happened two or three years ago and his ruling is going to be based on rules haven't even been implemented yet. The NCAA never seizes to amaze me. They're getting worse and worse every year. They try to take all the fun out of college football with the "excessive celebration penalty" nonsense rule. I could write ten books about how ignorant and ludicrous that is. They play favorite with their rulings (Cam Newton, Terrelle Pryor, the list goes on and on). Why was Cam Newton ruled eligible? Because he the best player in college football and he was going to win a Heisman trophy. Why was Terrelle Pryor allowed to play in the bowl game and the suspension not in affect until next season? Because he is a money-making player and this is a BCS Bowl game. And if he didn't play in the game the number of viewers would have been cut in half. Why were the other four Ohio State players allowed to play in the bowl game? Because if Pryor was allowed to play in it then of course they would be too.

I'm not saying I agree with the rules that should have made these players ineligible, but I am saying if the rules are in the freakin rule book then you have to enforce them. If Newton is eligible and certainly if Pryor is allowed to play in the BCS bowl game, then Kanter should be eligible to play college basketball this season. He should be ready to goright now. He shouldn't have even had to wait this long. He shouldn't even have been suspeneded more than three games. The kid just wants to play. He turned down millions for Pete's sake. His dad told the media he would play here next year if he couldn't this season. Come on people! Let the kid play now!!!

Sorry to whine and ramble about this on Christmas but I couldn't help it. Merry Christmas guys!

outdoorsman43 Wrote:This delay isn't because this is a UK case. You are correct about that.

I'll tell you one thing though, this is taking way too long. The talk now is that the NCAA is now implementing rule changes and are going to base Kanter's ruling on that.

How can they do that?! This all happened two or three years ago and his ruling is going to be based on rules haven't even been implemented yet. The NCAA never seizes to amaze me. They're getting worse and worse every year. They try to take all the fun out of college football with the "excessive celebration penalty" nonsense rule. I could write ten books about how ignorant and ludicrous that is. They play favorite with their rulings (Cam Newton, Terrelle Pryor, the list goes on and on). Why was Cam Newton ruled eligible? Because he the best player in college football and he was going to win a Heisman trophy. Why was Terrelle Pryor allowed to play in the bowl game and the suspension not in affect until next season? Because he is a money-making player and this is a BCS Bowl game. And if he didn't play in the game the number of viewers would have been cut in half. Why were the other four Ohio State players allowed to play in the bowl game? Because if Pryor was allowed to play in it then of course they would be too.

I'm not saying I agree with the rules that should have made these players ineligible, but I am saying if the rules are in the freakin rule book then you have to enforce them. If Newton is eligible and certainly if Pryor is allowed to play in the BCS bowl game, then Kanter should be eligible to play college basketball this season. He should be ready to goright now. He shouldn't have even had to wait this long. He shouldn't even have been suspeneded more than three games. The kid just wants to play. He turned down millions for Pete's sake. His dad told the media he would play here next year if he couldn't this season. Come on people! Let the kid play now!!!

Sorry to whine and ramble about this on Christmas but I couldn't help it. Merry Christmas guys!

The Kanter ruling is the first time that the NCAA has had to face this. They have never had the rules challenged in the past for a professional athlete seeking a ruling. This is ruling of an athlete playing a Professional sport and then seeking amateur status after doing so and receiving compensation. This is nothing like the OSU players, or Cam Newton, thus it deserves to be handled differently.

All this talk about him turning down millions means NOTHING. He is a professional athlete with an unfair advantage over any other college athlete. I don't want a kid who pitched against professional athletes in Mexico, being compensated for it, then coming to the rival High School that I coach against being deemed eligible to play.

Cam Newton did nothing that gave him professional status. The OSU players did nothing that allowed them to compete as professionals giving them a competitive advantage over any other college athlete. Derrick Rose did not receive benefits that made him a paid professional. The Kanter case is NOTHING like the others!

Stardust Wrote:The Kanter ruling is the first time that the NCAA has had to face this. They have never had the rules challenged in the past for a professional athlete seeking a ruling. This is ruling of an athlete playing a Professional sport and then seeking amateur status after doing so and receiving compensation. This is nothing like the OSU players, or Cam Newton, thus it deserves to be handled differently.

All this talk about him turning down millions means NOTHING. He is a professional athlete with an unfair advantage over any other college athlete. I don't want a kid who pitched against professional athletes in Mexico, being compensated for it, then coming to the rival High School that I coach against being deemed eligible to play.

Cam Newton did nothing that gave him professional status. The OSU players did nothing that allowed them to compete as professionals giving them a competitive advantage over any other college athlete. Derrick Rose did not receive benefits that made him a paid professional. The Kanter case is NOTHING like the others!

Did I say it was like the other cases? No. The situations are all totally different but they all have one thing in common: they all broke NCAA rules. This doesn't mean I think the NCAA rulebook is perfect and I don't think some of these situations should never even exist, because some of the shouldn't (especially the Pryor situation). The NCAA rulebook is worth no more than a coloring book to me. It's garbage. Still though, some situations should exist (the Newton situation where his father demanded money with the recruitment of his son). Regardless, all these situations involved rules being broken.

The Kanter case being handled "differently"? I understand where you're coming from but that really doesn't seem very fair here. Cam Newton receives absolutely no punishment whatsoever for the reasons I stated above. Do you think the NCAA made the right move there? I mean, do you really? Don't you think Terrelle Pryor should be suspended for the bowl game against Arkansas? Why shouldn't he?

Like I said, I'm not saying I think what those players done was wrong (except for Newton). All I am saying is if the NCAA is going to unjustly give a little slap on the wrist for something that is in their rule book to one player and if another player(s) breaks a rule then they receive full punishment, that's ridiculous.

Whether Kanter situation is different from the others has nothing to do with it. It doesn't matter. Newton should be punished! Pryor should be punised (him being suspended for the first five games of next season doesn't matter with the probability of him entering the NFL Draft). But since they weren't punished to amount to anything, why should Kanter suffer? I understand all the professional stuff..blah, blah, blah......Face it. The kid was given bad advice from a Turkish league that did not want him to go to America to play basketball and when he did they weren't going to help him in any way. Do you really think his family knew that the money they accepted was over the limit? I understand ignorance of the rules is no excuse but situations like this shouldn't end with permanent ineligibility (heck, not even a year for that matter). I really don't think it's that big of a deal. It's certainly no bigger deal than the other cases if you look at the circumstances of how little Kanter and his family knew. The kid was 15 and 16 years old for crying out loud.

But can't the kid at least pay back the money and sit a few games? If not, why can't he? Answer that question if nothing else.

Whether those guys should be punished or not can be judged by previous cases. I'm not justifying what happened to other guys and whether they should be punished. I have not studied their cases. But in the Kanter case, the NCAA will have to takes it's time if they want to make changes to long standing rules that do not allow players who have played professionally to have amateur status.

As I have said many times, the longer this case goes, the better. The NCAA ruled on this long ago. They based that ruling on the same reasons why the do not allow hockey players from Canada play collegiately. Thus, it is in black and white as to why the NCAA will not allow Kanter to play. If this is taking longer, then it can only mean one thing! They are reconsidering what they consider a pro. Everyone wants this to have an immediate action, because they compare this case to other cases. This case cannot be judged like any other case, because it is a NEW type of case. Cam, OSU players, these cases have been happening every year for the last 20 years, so it is much easier for the NCAA to rule on those incidents.

But can't the kid at least pay back the money and sit a few games? If not, why can't he? Answer that question if nothing else.

I've answered this in every post, because this is a case of a professional athlete playing a professional sport. It has nothing to do with the money, whether it was $33K, $3, $3M.

Stardust Wrote:But can't the kid at least pay back the money and sit a few games? If not, why can't he? Answer that question if nothing else.

I've answered this in every post, because this is a case of a professional athlete playing a professional sport. It has nothing to do with the money, whether it was $33K, $3, $3M.

Well why was the ruling based on the $33K over the $100K limit that Kanter and his family allegedly got paid?

It does have to do with the money. His professional status is the case as well but so is the expenses he was paid.

outdoorsman43 Wrote:Well why was the ruling based on the $33K over the $100K limit that Kanter and his family allegedly got paid?

It does have to do with the money. His professional status is the case as well but so is the expenses he was paid.

This case is 100% about playing a professional sport. No matter what has been presented to the media, this is about being a professional, a case that the NCAA has not encountered before. They have encountered the issues like the $33K every single year, probably every single week.

Stardust Wrote:This case is 100% about playing a professional sport. No matter what has been presented to the media, this is about being a professional, a case that the NCAA has not encountered before. They have encountered the issues like the $33K every single year, probably every single week.

Well then. Do you think he should be considered a professional that shouldn't be allowed to pay college basketball? This is an honest and humble question.

outdoorsman43 Wrote:Well then. Do you think he should be considered a professional that shouldn't be allowed to pay college basketball? This is an honest and humble question.

Look, you know me, I truly do love the Cats, and I may be the most brutally honest fan of them. But in this case, I see it tough to overlook the fact that he has an unfair advantage over any other college athlete. I used my scenario below about a 16 year-old playing pro ball in Mexico, then going to my rival HS to compete against a team that I am coaching. I would fight against that athlete.

I've heard the argument many times that this is the way they do it overseas. So? That does not make it different. The NCAA does not allow 16 year-old CHL players come to US colleges and play college hockey. Kanter didn't go and play against other 16 year-olds, he played against men! He played against men who have played in the NBA already. No, IMO, he is not eligible to play collegiate sports.

BUT! And this is my contention, the NCAA is taking a long time on this. I have an understanding of legal proceedings, and the longer something goes, the better it is for the defendant. In this case, the longer this goes, the better it is that the NCAA finds a way to allow these situations to be reviewed differently. I felt a week ago that the NCAA is going to likely declare that he has to sit a year, and then be eligible once he pays back his $33K. Does it change my opinion of should he be eligible, No! I'd still fight against the 16 year-old baseball player as well!

Stardust Wrote:Look, you know me, I truly do love the Cats, and I may be the most brutally honest fan of them. But in this case, I see it tough to overlook the fact that he has an unfair advantage over any other college athlete. I used my scenario below about a 16 year-old playing pro ball in Mexico, then going to my rival HS to compete against a team that I am coaching. I would fight against that athlete.

I've heard the argument many times that this is the way they do it overseas. So? That does not make it different. The NCAA does not allow 16 year-old CHL players come to US colleges and play college hockey. Kanter didn't go and play against other 16 year-olds, he played against men! He played against men who have played in the NBA already. No, IMO, he is not eligible to play collegiate sports.

BUT! And this is my contention, the NCAA is taking a long time on this. I have an understanding of legal proceedings, and the longer something goes, the better it is for the defendant. In this case, the longer this goes, the better it is that the NCAA finds a way to allow these situations to be reviewed differently. I felt a week ago that the NCAA is going to likely declare that he has to sit a year, and then be eligible once he pays back his $33K. Does it change my opinion of should he be eligible, No! I'd still fight against the 16 year-old baseball player as well!

I understand the unfair advantage that Kanter had playing against tougher competition. But really, how much of an advantage does that give you? The kid only did what he thought he was supposed to do. That's really the argument that the Kanter's have is that they thought they were doing things the right way. Although they broke the rules, pretty big rules at that, I still think the NCAA should take that into account (should have already) and base the his eligibility on that.

The NCAA should and will make the new rules, exceptions, etc. after this ruling but they certainly shouldn't base Kanter's ruling on these new rules like the media has been told they are going to do. It could be good for Enes or it could be bad for Enes. I don't know.

Stardust Wrote:So, what other European athlete have they ever given eligibility to? I don't know of anywhere else, that a paid profession does not make you a professional. And, if you compete against those paid professionals, that makes you a professional as well if you accept any compensation.

An amateur may play in the US Open golf tournament, but mus receive ZERO compensation financially. They must pay their entire way both to and from the event, and they are no eligible for any winnings from the tournament. They cannot take money to be put into a college fund, they cannot take money for room and board, they cannot take money for anything. How does that differ?

As for the NCAA ruling, this is definitely ground-breaking, and as we all knew, would set the tone for all other foreign players forever. Cam Newtons, the OSU players, all of those incidents have happened in the past, thus there is a precedence that one can repeat or use for judgement. The player seeking eligibility after playing a professional sport is not. Thus, just like anything that is new in our life, sometimes it takes time to make sure you get it right (or your interpretation of right).

Everyone wants this done now because it affects you as a UK basktball fan. The rest of the nation could care less. The NCAA has no care that this affects UK Basketball, this affects ALL of basketball. Go to court someday and see how long it takes to put a case together against a HOF baseball pitcher accused of either doing or not doing steroids. Cases and judgements don't take a week to decide.

You're right, this is new to the NCAA, but like I said, the Kanter family wasn't aware of the NCAA rules when Enes accepted the money at such a young age and when he decided to play college basketball instead of professional. Just look at it from their families point of view, it's not something they were aware of and the NCAA has to realize that. If they wind up ruling Kanter permanently ineligible, then fine, I can live with it because I know our coach can get someone else in here to replace his scholarship.

Just some food for thought, but here is another scenario: Kanter is considered a professional by the NCAA at this point, so why can't he sign with a NBA team tomorrow? Why does he have to go through the draft just like other collegiate basketball players?

If he was professional in another country, then how in this world was he cleared to play at a prep school in CA??? I don't know how prep school is different from public school but I know where I went they would never let a "professional" play.

Makes you wonder if they knew any of the NCAA rules at all?

FoOtBaLl FrEaK 8-0 Wrote:If he was professional in another country, then how in this world was he cleared to play at a prep school in CA??? I don't know how prep school is different from public school but I know where I went they would never let a "professional" play.

Were they a sanctioned High School, or like Oak Hill Academy meaning they cannot compete for any state championship, or thus considered an exhibition team, thus not bound by NFHS regulations?

BlackcatAlum Wrote:You're right, this is new to the NCAA, but like I said, the Kanter family wasn't aware of the NCAA rules when Enes accepted the money at such a young age and when he decided to play college basketball instead of professional. Just look at it from their families point of view, it's not something they were aware of and the NCAA has to realize that. If they wind up ruling Kanter permanently ineligible, then fine, I can live with it because I know our coach can get someone else in here to replace his scholarship.

Just some food for though, but here is another scenario: Kanter is considered a professional by the NCAA at this point, so why can't he sign with a NBA team tomorrow? Why does he have to go through the draft just like other collegiate basketball players?

Like I said to ODM in PM, I am taking my own son from college to college, talking to coaches, all in attempts to find the right fit for him to play baseball. I've helped put five kids in college baseball over the past two years. I have NOT learned every single detail, I think I know what I can and can't do, but I don't know it all. If it gets screwed up, it's MY fault, I hurt my son, but I can't claim "My Bad, Can I have a Do-Over".

Interesting, and something that Brandon Jennings considered when he went overseas. The NBA has a supplemental draft that any player who is a free agent can be eligible for. If the Kanter's applied for free Agent status, he could be eligible for the supplemental draft. Since he has never been in the NBA, he could only sign for the league minimum, and that would be a major risk for a player who should be a Lottery pick, thus guarenteed MILLIONS.

I want Enes to get eligible as much as anyone else on here but say he committed to Washington, nobody on here would think he should get eligible or make a case for him.

Aslan Wrote:I want Enes to get eligible as much as anyone else on here but say he committed to Washington, nobody on here would think he should get eligible or make a case for him.

Lol, you are exactly right. No one would be saying "OMG, The NCAA is out to get us because we are Washington" :Thumbs:

Stardust Wrote:Lol, you are exactly right. No one would be saying "OMG, The NCAA is out to get us because we are Washington" :Thumbs:

Weird, I have seen numerous UK fans on here taking up for Cam Newton and that situation. I dont believe he will get eligible, But they they can let him finish the season and make him miss his games next year! That sounds like something they have done before.........:please:

Wildcatk23 Wrote:Weird, I have seen numerous UK fans on here taking up for Cam Newton and that situation. I dont believe he will get eligible, But they they can let him finish the season and make him miss his games next year! That sounds like something they have done before.........:please:

When has this every happened? Is there an example where the NCAA has declared an ineligible player to be eligible and then allow them to finish a season, then come back the next year and sit out additional games? If you are referring to the OSU players, they have been eligible all season and are allowed to finish their season with a requirement to miss games next season. The OSU players were not rule ineligible, forced to sit this year, get reinstated, and then have to sit next season.

Aslan Wrote:I want Enes to get eligible as much as anyone else on here but say he committed to Washington, nobody on here would think he should get eligible or make a case for him.

Very good point.

I don't think this would have been blown up as much as it has been either if he would have stayed committed to Washington either. UK basketball is always in the spotlight and journalists, bloggers, etc know this and they know our fanbase will raise cane over something that would deal with defending a coach, player, or simply our program in general.

I'm not saying the NCAA has it out for us, but I just wish they would get it over with already.

Stardust Wrote:When has this every happened? Is there an example where the NCAA has declared an ineligible player to be eligible and then allow them to finish a season, then come back the next year and sit out additional games? If you are referring to the OSU players, they have been eligible all season and are allowed to finish their season with a requirement to miss games next season. The OSU players were not rule ineligible, forced to sit this year, get reinstated, and then have to sit next season.

The players accepted improper benefits, including selling awards, gifts and university apparel.

There for they should be ineligible for the bowl game. But the NCAA has decided to let the School makes its money off of Pryor selling tickets then let him hit the NFL draft.

Wong thread

Stardust Wrote:I think I have said this now for the MILLIONTH time: Professional!

No other player that has been mentioned on this thread that the NCAA has allowed to play has ever played PROFESSIONAL sports! None of them have been considered as a professional athlete, none of them!

Anyone who gets paid to perform a service is a professional. Doesn't make any difference if it came from a "professional team". If Newton got paid to perform a service, he then is a professional. Doesn't matter if it came from the Celtics or a booster. Time to get off this "professional" wagon. If Cam Newton's family got money, he is as much a professional as Enes. Bottom line is that the NCAA is very inconsistent.

Shady Grady Wrote:Anyone who gets paid to perform a service is a professional. Doesn't make any difference if it came from a "professional team". If Newton got paid to perform a service, he then is a professional. Doesn't matter if it came from the Celtics or a booster. Time to get off this "professional" wagon. If Cam Newton's family got money, he is as much a professional as Enes. Bottom line is that the NCAA is very inconsistent.

Absolutely 100% incorrect! There is a major difference in competing in a Professional League against Professional Players. This is 100% about competing as a professional athlete. A High School player who gets a $1 from his Mom for every point he scores would be a paid professional in your analogy and that is ridiculous. Cam Newton did not get an unfair advantage against all the other players in college because he competed in a league of Professional Athletes and he received compensation for it. Cam Newton cheated, but this in NO WAY is similar!

Wildcatk23 Wrote:The players accepted improper benefits, including selling awards, gifts and university apparel.

There for they should be ineligible for the bowl game. But the NCAA has decided to let the School makes its money off of Pryor selling tickets then let him hit the NFL draft.

I am in no way saying the OSU players should be eligible or not, I really don't care. But your analogy did not fit your previous post.

It really does make you wonder what else the NCAA is looking at? I understand the holiday thing, and they are wanting to wait, but I really can't think of anything else they are looking at unless they are missing facts, and they are looking around to get it.

Well if it is playn against pros then I hope no more players play in high scaled pick up games in the summer that nba players in. Was it Jordan Crawford who dunked on lebron a summer or two ago.