I have been and am still doing an independent study about church. (Did a project in college and now that I am graduated, I am still working on it, lol.)
I would ask several people what they thought was The Church's (universal, as in ALL churches) biggest draw/praise/good-thing and what was The Church's biggest weakness?
Another way to ask is: What makes you want to go to church? OR What makes you not go to church?
I have had some REAL eye-opening answers in the past, let's see what we get here. Feel free to be brutally honest, I will not be offended, I am just continuing a study.
LWC Wrote:I have been and am still doing an independent study about church. (Did a project in college and now that I am graduated, I am still working on it, lol.)
I would ask several people what they thought was The Church's (universal, as in ALL churches) biggest draw/praise/good-thing and what was The Church's biggest weakness?
Another way to ask is: What makes you want to go to church? OR What makes you not go to church?
I have had some REAL eye-opening answers in the past, let's see what we get here. Feel free to be brutally honest, I will not be offended, I am just continuing a study.
This may sound odd, the answer for me for both questions is the people in the church.
The people who kept me away from church for 20+ years were the ones I would see go to church every time the doors opened, but yet they were the ones gossiping, making racist statements, condemming people because they did not go to church (my Sunday school teacher did that to me about my Dad because he did not go to church. He worked every Sunday and Wed.). I was a child/teenager when I witnessed this. I knew deep in my heart, eventhough I did not have the Biblical knowledge as they did, this was not right. I could not bring myself to go to church with these kinds of people. I held these prejudices for many years.
The good is the fellowship. Obviously God has pointed me to the types of people that makes me want to go to church. My wife convinced me to go back to church about three years ago. She grew up in a family where everyone was agnostic/atheist. A co-worker invited her to church she asked me to go with her. I went with the intentions of going just one week to be comfort to her. The people in the church were so friendly open warm, you couldn't help but want to go again. I like the small groups, the frienships that are developed, people going out of their way to help the community.
I think what if Church is done the way Paul instructed in his Epistles then it is a wonderful thing....
but when you get away from that, people get hurt.
As Christians, we are not to forsake the gathering of Believers, and I believe that having a group of people you are accountable to is VERY important in maintaining your walk with God.
but we have gossip, pride, money, jealousy....
There are a lot of things that us people bring into the Church that seperate it from God's vision.
This may be grounds for another thread, but I'd like to pose a question to everyone on here.
What is the "Perfect Church" ?
To me the perfect Church would be one that anyone could come in and be free to Worship, be fed the Word, fellowship, and build accountability with those around you.
It sounds pretty easy, huh?
But we get hung up on the music, the denomination, the people, and we let that get in between us and what we are supposed to be there for.
Is it possible to have a "Perfect Church" with all of us "imperfect people"?
I don't know....
you tell me lol
I haven't lost my faith, but I do not attend church but a few times a year. I do feel like I should goto church, but I just choose not to.
I also think that there is a high percentage in church-goers that only goto church to be seen.
BlackcatAlum Wrote:I haven't lost my faith, but I do not attend church but a few times a year. I do feel like I should goto church, but I just choose not to.
I also think that there is a high percentage in church-goers that only goto church to be seen.
This is a very True Statement.
I hear everyone and make note of it. Thanks and keep it coming.
Someone told me once that church attendance drops off after the first week of November and only has high spots again at Christmas, Mothers day, and Easter until election day. What does that sadly say?
^Attendance also drops in the summer.
but that says to me that we do what is convenient for us most of the time.
I know a lot of drug users and drug dealers that go to church every sunday. I dont believe you can get high or get drunk on saturday and go to church sunday like nothing happened. There are people in church that lead very sinful lives and use church more or less as a cover up or way to look good in front of people. I dont like that at all. I also dislike the way some preachers preach. My cousin passed away at 21 as a result of an overdose. The preacher at his funeral instead of preach "nice" and saying good things about him, bashed "the younger generation" and preached about drugs to the young members of the crowd. Incredibly disrespectful and it hurt my aunt majorly. SO the mere actions of some members of the church make me not want to go. The true church people who are open and kind are great, but sadly i feel like they are few and far between in the community i live in.
No one is perfect, but there comes a time when you are in blatant repetetive sin and you need to realize things have to change.
But there is something I think we miss.
Sure there are people that go to Church and lead bad lives....
but shouldn't people that lead bad lives be going to Church.
Just because you go to Church it doesn't necessarily mean you're a Christian.
The biggest problem I have with the local churches around here, are the way they drop (or forget) the elders as soon as they arent able to contribute to their "praise teams" or their fundraisers or functions. I have spoken with MANY older people, and they feel the same way. I know of an older lady (she was 88, and a member of her church for 53 years, until the last year of her life, and she was too sick to go to church) that went on to be with the Lord, and not ONE single telephone call, not ONE single visit from ONE member of the church came to see her the last 14 months of her life. I know this because I lived beside of her, and checked on her every single day, kept her house warm in the winter time, made sure she was fed, and read to her EVERY DAY. I know of many elderly people that are done the same way. Im not saying that all churches are like this, but most that I have been in are. I quit going to my church for the exact same reasons that HP mentioned (gossiping, starting rumors, etc)..I get more out of riding my Harley to a remote spot at Fishpond Lake, or a spot at the Breaks, and reading my Bible than I do going to most churches.
TidesHoss32 Wrote:The biggest problem I have with the local churches around here, are the way they drop (or forget) the elders as soon as they arent able to contribute to their "praise teams" or their fundraisers or functions. I have spoken with MANY older people, and they feel the same way. I know of an older lady (she was 88, and a member of her church for 53 years, until the last year of her life, and she was too sick to go to church) that went on to be with the Lord, and not ONE single telephone call, not ONE single visit from ONE member of the church came to see her the last 14 months of her life. I know this because I lived beside of her, and checked on her every single day, kept her house warm in the winter time, made sure she was fed, and read to her EVERY DAY. I know of many elderly people that are done the same way. Im not saying that all churches are like this, but most that I have been in are. I quit going to my church for the exact same reasons that HP mentioned (gossiping, starting rumors, etc)..I get more out of riding my Harley to a remote spot at Fishpond Lake, or a spot at the Breaks, and reading my Bible than I do going to most churches.
Hey man I just read this and wanted you to know I really respect what you did for that lady. I really admire people who help others. It is a quality that isnt very common in todays world.
Keep it coming y'all.
I agree with you TidesHoss, people that are shut-in from the world are still opened-up to the Lord. That is one of the biggest adjustments that I have made since I began pastoring the churches I am at now.
The District Superintendent (if you have questions, PM me about them) before he appointed me, told me that the former pastor had not even made 6 VISITS IN 6 MONTHS, that includes nursing homes, hospitals, or even just general visits. The man had been a pastor for at least 3 full years before that point. I came in and made 28 in my first 3 weeks WITH a torn-up car.
I do not say that to boast or uplift myself, I say that because I wish that every church member and every pastor realized how important visitations are. Many nursing/rest home patients just love for you to drop in and say hi. Many times, I will pick my wife up on her dinner break, but come in about 5 minutes early, just to go around to some of the church members and just say hello.
At what point did "The Church" become ONLY about congregational worship and sermons? When did the church stop coming together for fellowship, support, discipleship and worship, taking the Word out to the streets and living for Christ and become this notion that the music has to be to our style, the sermon can't be too harsh or too nice and that the new pew Bibles have to be red and you-better-watch-your-back if the carpet is brown!
Sorry that I am venting
As you can tell, I want to change a lot of things about the church (lower-case) to make it more user-friendly.
As someone already hinted around at, what did Jesus say to the Pharisee's when they questioned him about eating with the Tax Collector?
Quote:Luke 5:31
And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are in health have no need of a physician; but they that are sick.
32 I am not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.
LWC Wrote:Keep it coming y'all.
I agree with you TidesHoss, people that are shut-in from the world are still opened-up to the Lord. That is one of the biggest adjustments that I have made since I began pastoring the churches I am at now.
The District Superintendent (if you have questions, PM me about them) before he appointed me, told me that the former pastor had not even made 6 VISITS IN 6 MONTHS, that includes nursing homes, hospitals, or even just general visits. The man had been a pastor for at least 3 full years before that point. I came in and made 28 in my first 3 weeks WITH a torn-up car.
I do not say that to boast or uplift myself, I say that because I wish that every church member and every pastor realized how important visitations are. Many nursing/rest home patients just love for you to drop in and say hi. Many times, I will pick my wife up on her dinner break, but come in about 5 minutes early, just to go around to some of the church members and just say hello.
At what point did "The Church" become ONLY about congregational worship and sermons? When did the church stop coming together for fellowship, support, discipleship and worship, taking the Word out to the streets and living for Christ and become this notion that the music has to be to our style, the sermon can't be too harsh or too nice and that the new pew Bibles have to be red and you-better-watch-your-back if the carpet is brown!
Sorry that I am venting As you can tell, I want to change a lot of things about the church (lower-case) to make it more user-friendly.
As someone already hinted around at, what did Jesus say to the Pharisee's when they questioned him about eating with the Tax Collector?
Not to attack anyone's beliefs.
But I believe that started with catholicism.
it's not like the protestants did much to change it....
zaga_fan Wrote:Not to attack anyone's beliefs.
But I believe that started with catholicism.
it's not like the protestants did much to change it....
Then again though, they do have the Lord's Supper, confessional AND confirmation classes. I meant when did that become EVERYTHING. As in, wake up get to church to see Jesus, leave church and wait to see Jesus again until Sunday. The question was more figurative.
BlackcatAlum Wrote:I haven't lost my faith, but I do not attend church but a few times a year. I do feel like I should goto church, but I just choose not to.
I also think that there is a high percentage in church-goers that only goto church to be seen.
:Thumbs: I agree. It's almost like they go to church so it can be put on their resume for a higher standing in society. I'm the only member of my family who not only doesn't go to church (haven't been in over 20 yrs) but isn't a member of a church. My best friend died suddenly with no warning Sunday. He had the same views as me. I think he will be fine. RIP
Westside Wrote:[/B]
:Thumbs: I agree. It's almost like they go to church so it can be put on their resume for a higher standing in society. I'm the only member of my family who not only doesn't go to church (haven't been in over 20 yrs) but isn't a member of a church. My best friend died suddenly with no warning Sunday. He had the same views as me. I think he will be fine. RIP
First allow me to say how sorry that I am for your loss. Also allow me to say that the only church membership and/or attendance that will get you to heaven is the Church-triumphant. If you know Jesus as your Lord and Savior and never step into a church-building, you will have the same fate as the thief on the cross by Jesus, (Luke 23:43) "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."
LWC Wrote:First allow me to say how sorry that I am for your loss. Also allow me to say that the only church membership and/or attendance that will get you to heaven is the Church-triumphant. If you know Jesus as your Lord and Savior and never step into a church-building, you will have the same fate as the thief on the cross by Jesus, (Luke 23:43) "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."
If you don't care put that in plan English for me. I not being disrespectful. I just want to be sure I understand. Thanks.
Westside Wrote:If you don't care put that in plan English for me. I not being disrespectful. I just want to be sure I understand. Thanks.
Okay. You said that you had not been to church in a long time and that your friend shared the same views as you. What I said is that as long as you have Jesus in your heart, you will be fine. :Thumbs:
As a pastor, I would love for you to be in church, but I would be lying if I said that your salvation (being saved/going to heaven, etc...) depended on it.
LWC Wrote:Okay. You said that you had not been to church in a long time and that your friend shared the same views as you. What I said is that as long as you have Jesus in your heart, you will be fine. :Thumbs:
As a pastor, I would love for you to be in church, but I would be lying if I said that your salvation (being saved/going to heaven, etc...) depended on it.
Thanks. I understand now.