Is he allowed to Coach in the County Tournament since he got booted during the Belfry game?
If he coaches tonight does that throw all rules out the window as far as Pike County athletics goes?
As a parent who witnessed that circus I hope Mr. Wagner and company stick by the rules.
This isn't up to Mr. Wagner, its up to the referee who ejected the coach to file the paper work required to make the coach set out his game.
i don't think the referee who ejected him wrote him up, therefore you will see Feds Creek coach on the sideline tonight.
I personally think if a coach gets thrown out, he should set out. But thats not the rule.
Coach Justice should be thankful Mr. Tomlin didn't write him up.
So a players father is the ref, throws out home school coach but doesn't turn it in?
I'd almost bet Feds Creek doesn't get a home game next year aside from the schools that Pike BOE MAKES play there.
If I was one of the coaches and principals left in the tournament I would raise heck....
Now Jack i am not a Feds Creek fan but its not different than going anywhere else in the county that doesn't use Brent to assign their referees. Schools who get various members of the community or family members to referee games are putting the referee in a bad situation and the school in a bad situation.
Johns Creek, Virgie, Dorton use Brent for sure to make sure their referees are licensed. This is something coaches should bring up in the coaches meeting and make sure we don't have another Belfry/Feds Creek incident.
Pike county middle school sports are not governed by KHSAA. It falls back on Pike County by-laws.
The only person that can remove a coach is the Superintendent. He will be coaching tonight.
I was told by many coaches and administrators that middle school is not sanctioned by khsaa which means the rules supposedly doesnt apply to middle school basketball. I agree if you are thrown out then you should have to sit, but I have been told that there isnt a rule in place for middle school. I have talked to coaches that have been threw out and have sit, I have also talked to coaches that didnt have to sit. Mullins also uses brent to get refs, I feel as most coaches do that everyone should go through some higher power to get refs. But as everyone knows there is no perfect ref in middle school basketball.
Woooo Wrote:Now Jack i am not a Feds Creek fan but its not different than going anywhere else in the county that doesn't use Brent to assign their referees. Schools who get various members of the community or family members to referee games are putting the referee in a bad situation and the school in a bad situation.
Johns Creek, Virgie, Dorton use Brent for sure to make sure their referees are licensed. This is something coaches should bring up in the coaches meeting and make sure we don't have another Belfry/Feds Creek incident.
Does Pike County have an athletic policy?
It is in Floyd Co's policy that officials must be licensed.
I believe in Pike Co you only have to have one licensed official.
I may be wrong, but my understanding is that Jr high sports rules fall under same stipulations and rules as high school?? Maybe not on time of play but most other rules are the same?
It would be ironic if Feds Creek wins tonight with Justice on the sideline and then he has to miss the next game possibly against Dorton or Pikeville......
Since we know the officials name, if Justice does not sit tonight I will be calling the KHSAA along with Brent Rose and ask if this official could have his license revoked and not call a game.....................
I believe before the Girls season starts next year, all boys team coaches and girl team coaches need to get together for a meeting along with the top brass of the county to put in a system to cover everything from how Refs are assigned to games, punishments for tech and flag fouls, a guideline to make sure all County teams have to play each other even if they are not in the same conference and other issues that we have not come up with. We need to make a Pike County guideline or rule book to avoid any situation like this in the future! Also, the tie breaker situation also needs to be adjusted. How the B and C team tournaments are run and etc... It shouldn't be too hard to hold the meeting, all the coaches would have to do is give up one night of there lives to make things better for everyone in the County.
bball_fan Wrote:I believe before the Girls season starts next year, all boys team coaches and girl team coaches need to get together for a meeting along with the top brass of the county to put in a system to cover everything from how Refs are assigned to games, punishments for tech and flag fouls, a guideline to make sure all County teams have to play each other even if they are not in the same conference and other issues that we have not come up with. We need to make a Pike County guideline or rule book to avoid any situation like this in the future! Also, the tie breaker situation also needs to be adjusted. How the B and C team tournaments are run and etc... It shouldn't be too hard to hold the meeting, all the coaches would have to do is give up one night of there lives to make things better for everyone in the County.
I think it needs to be done before the end of this school year.
I agree with everything you said except playing everyone in the entire county, play your division but you shouldn't be made to play anyone else.
The KHSAA [high school] does not control JR HI games. That is up to the local school district. At some central Ky schools JR HI players play inter-school first and they dont play other schools until after Christmas. So state wide rules would be hard to create. That is why the hold back rule is up to the school system. The offical in this game has no report to send to the state. That is for high school only.
fedscreekviking there is paperwork the official could have filed and didn't. This is the choice of the official not the choice of anyone else. Was it the right call throwing coach justice out? I have no idea. There is always two sides to every tale. I was there that night and saw the whole thing. I can tell you first hand if the Feds Creek player had cussed at me like he did that official i would have threw him out.
The problem with most officials is coaches don't back them. If an official makes a call good or bad you should accept it cause its the call and complaining will only make the official upset and we all know how upset officials blow the whistle.
I also agree with the official calling the game cause he probably feared for his life. I have never seen such a mess in all my life and i have seen a lot in my day. I think we all need to let this go but Feds Creek better be glad the official had a son playing and didn't make coach justice set out a game cause the truth is if he got threw out he deserves to set out. If your going to play the game play by the rules.
KHSAA kind of has a trickle down effect with the hold back rules. If you are 19 before August 1st of your Senior year, then you cannot play that year. This of course makes a child pick between staying back in grade school another year or moving on to high school. So in that sense, the KHSAA does in a way control the eligibility of hold backs. Now how many years you can hold back in grade school and still be eligible to play in high school is still open. I know some kids are lucky enough because of there birthday to be held back twice but most can only do it once.
alot of people on here make a big deal out of getting refs assigned, when middle school gets refs assigned they get first year refs. look who is calling the county tournament if you think assigned refs are a better option. tomlin is liscensed and has been for a while.
bball_fan Wrote:KHSAA kind of has a trickle down effect with the hold back rules. If you are 19 before August 1st of your Senior year, then you cannot play that year. This of course makes a child pick between staying back in grade school another year or moving on to high school. So in that sense, the KHSAA does in a way control the eligibility of hold backs. Now how many years you can hold back in grade school and still be eligible to play in high school is still open. I know some kids are lucky enough because of there birthday to be held back twice but most can only do it once.
Here's the deal. If you coach middle school anything and you don't know when you walk on the floor that the officiating is going to be bad then you need to wake up. It's no different than junior varsity high school ball. The referees are calling those games for a REASON. 1. They are either new to officiating and getting experience or 2. Stink so bad that this level is all they can call.
If you coach and get angry enough to be tossed at the middle school level then you should probably consider yourself more of a fan than a real coach.
Also, certain schools don't get licensed officials for a reason. They can pay an unlicensed referee less money and they likely have a better chance of winning that home game. People, this is not new. It's been happening since the 70's.
It is over now, everyone should move on.
Their coach was on the sideline and they pulled one out big in the end. He is a great guy and every coach gets T'd up once in a while.
I like coach Justice and thinks hes done a terrific job with the Vikings. I just think its a shame people blame the official when it wasn't the official. If parents and coaches would have just let the official give the player a T for cussing this would have never happened. Coaches are supposed to back their players but a player cussing is not something you should accept.
Woooo Wrote:I like coach Justice and thinks hes done a terrific job with the Vikings. I just think its a shame people blame the official when it wasn't the official. If parents and coaches would have just let the official give the player a T for cussing this would have never happened. Coaches are supposed to back their players but a player cussing is not something you should accept.
I agree about the cussing. If any player cusses at the referee he should immediately receive a T and the coach should take him out of the game, in my opinion. By leaving him on the floor, the coach is only condoning what he has done. We are here first of all to teach these kids sportsmanship and the right way to do things. Winning should be secondary. For some coaches the right thing is hard to do, but it is our responsibility to do it.
Coach Davis you are 100% right! We are supposed to teach these boys whats right!
Some coaches believe winning is everything.
Its been said once but I will say it again. The Khsaa does Not control Pike Co JH sports. There is no form for the offical to send in to the state. That is high school only. The offical could ask the Pike Co super to take action but that is the only option.
KHSAA does not govern middle school sports. You should be thankful that they do not. If the KHSAA gets their way they will eventually contol the middle school.
The KHSAA has no desire to be involved in monitoring middle school athletics. They barely have the staff to govern high school athletics. They have been approached several times about this issue from school leadership people. The financial burden on the KHSAA would be unbelievable for this to happen. The contol of middle school athletics is up to each district and school administrators. The Floyd County district has an effective athlectic handbook that is reviewed and updated every year to addrees such issues.
Floyd county governs through the khsaa. The khsaa has no say on middle school in floyd, but there rules are the same as the high school, except some they want to change on their on.
There HAS GOT to be a set of rules put in place for situations like this one. SOMEONE, maybe the County Athletic Director can be the one to make the decisions as to the Middle School and JV level. I was under the impression that JV (being high school/9th thru 12th grade) would be considered under KHSAA rules though.... How though can it be an official game if you don't have at least one licensed official present? IMHO, I agree with the above poster that the coaches along with Pike County BOE members and administration need to sit down and draw up a set of rules and regulations that should and will be followed in the near future. If they need adjusted to iron out wrinkles, so be it!!........ but let it be the policy "What's good for one, is good for the other"...... COUNTY WIDE!!!!
Coaches getting tossed at any level should have some type of reprimand.
The state of Middle School athletics is getting pretty messy largely due to the fact that many schools cannot get a faculty member to take the assignment. This coach may be a faculty member and if so or not, the principal of the school should be the boss of their program. You don't need a governing body if you use common sense.
I have been to many middle school games and seen many of the teams in Floyd, Letcher, and Pike counties. I cannot for the life of me understand how principals, parents, and fans tolerate the abuse that is handed out to some of these children. Some of the language handled by coaches and fans is disgraceful. It is bad when you have to sit far from the benches to keep your fourth grader from hearing the f bomb dropped to a child by a middle school coach. I wonder what stamping your feet and yelling at an official trying to intimidate them is teaching 12-15 year old boys.
I am a coach and i have made my share of mistakes but hopefully I still have something good to offer. It is sometimes difficult to explain to your players about the behavior of other teams, parents, and fans. [B]And yes sometimes from your own people.
As for officials I say until you get your license, get on the floor, and help out show some respect for those that do even if they do miss some calls. I have gone on long enough but so has this ridiculous behavior by a few that cause alot to endure.
Fight this another time. Let the kids play ball.