Feel free to disagree, as I'd love to learn that I'm wrong - but living in the Mountains of E. KY where I have coached football in grades 2-8 and now have a son playing HS I'd love to understand this one. Observations:
- Many great athletes refuse to play football to focus on basketball but rarely the other way around. And many of those same athletes are under 6'3" and could really be great football players. Why put your eggs in one basket?
- Game Attendance: When KC played Clay this year (televised) the stands were only 80% full. I have been to Grade School bball tournaments that fill a varsity gym. Why do communities in KY not get behind football by attending the games?
I realize the historical success of UK is a primary reason for all of this. I just wonder if there are not other reasons or if maybe I'm wrong?:thanks:
Football1 Wrote:Feel free to disagree, as I'd love to learn that I'm wrong - but living in the Mountains of E. KY where I have coached football in grades 2-8 and now have a son playing HS I'd love to understand this one. Observations:
- Many great athletes refuse to play football to focus on basketball but rarely the other way around. And many of those same athletes are under 6'3" and could really be great football players. Why put your eggs in one basket?
- Game Attendance: When KC played Clay this year (televised) the stands were only 80% full. I have been to Grade School bball tournaments that fill a varsity gym. Why do communities in KY not get behind football by attending the games?
I realize the historical success of UK is a primary reason for all of this. I just wonder if there are not other reasons or if maybe I'm wrong?:thanks:
I think it's that way in most of Kentucky, not just in the east. There are exceptions; football is king in Danville / Boyle County, northern Kentucky, and select spots around the state but overall; basketball is king. You hit the nail on the head when you said
"I realize the historical success of UK is a primary reason for all of this". That is the main reason.
I have to disagree with you. I have lived in three different regions of the state (NEKY, Central KY, and Louisville area). In NEKY, football is talked about and players prepare for it year round, basketball was just a way to keep in shape for football season. I know many of you do not consider NEKY part of the mountains, we played many teams from the mountains and other parts of the state in football. The biggest crowds, hardest hitters, and the hardest playing teams were from the mountains. In regards to other parts of the state that I have lived in, I agree with you. High school basketball is king
It's according which county you live in.
its a numbers game as well you have some exceptions to the rule but the majority of the counties in Ky have one high school and there still 3A or less. Heck west Jessamine only dresses 45 only one plays basketball. Logistics i imagine some of those kids live a distance from the schools they attend. making it difficult to get to and from practice. Its a lot easier to get 12 or 15 kids dedicated and talented enough(so there parents will bring them) to play basketball. just a guess on my part. but as a whole Kentucky high school football rocks. you bring Hoover Alabama to Lexington, Louisville, Boyle county,Bell county. They would be an after thought. not being a homer just a huge high school football fan.
U mountaineers have had a little more success in bball than in football. Footbal in KY is generally weakest in the mountains and this is due to demographics. Lets face it everybody loves a winner and that generally has come more in bball than football. Also UK's success
I have to disagree. I'm from Inez and nothing creates as much excitement as football season. Then wreslting. Basketball is third string there. I live in Prestonsburg now and have to say Basketball takes a backseat to football here as well. If you want to see a basketball school go to Kermit and Tug Valley. I went to grade school there and we could barely feild a team. But even middle school basketball games would sale out. I remember going to the highschool games and having to stand in the hallways outside the gym because you couldn't get in. If you wanted to play football you would transfer to Tolsia or Matewan.
It is?????? I never realized that??????
Basketball in the Mountains has always been the sweethearts in years past. 20-30 years ago they were many more High Schools in the Mtns. The basketball teams were the hearts of the SMALL SCHOOLS. It was very hard for them to compete in football but they could in B-ball. I think that has changed now as basketball as a whole has really dropped in level of play in the state of KY. Basketball is a sport that kids have to work as individual to get really good, (working on shooting, ballhandling and etc.) most will not do that today. Football workouts are usually done in groups and we all know what peer preasure does.
I have to disagree, you can not generalize this because its not all of EKY its all about the school and where THEY put their eggs. For example Pikeville, Belfry, Sheldon Clark, Johnson Central, Bell County, Hazard, P-Burg, recently Perry Central, and Letcher Central all get out and support football more than basketball. On these teams you have kids who do not play basketball and focus on football. One of the primary examples here is Michael Campbell from hazard he gave up basketball to focus on football. At Pikeville alot of the kids who play football do not play basketball to hit the weights through out basketball season. Idk if this is true but I have heard that if you play football at P-Burg they do not want you playing basketball now (maybe someone can clarify that for me). All of the schools mentioned above you can go to one of their football games and it will be packed out go to a basketball game and you will see the same faces every year and then a few extras. With that said then you have schools like Pike Central and Shelby Valley who focus mainly on basketball and have great crowds for those games however, since the hiring of Champman alot of kids are going out for football now, fans are coming out more, students are more excited about football season rather than basketball season. Once again its all about the school. I think one of the big problems is you have alot of Mommies and Daddies now not wanting their kids to get hurt playing football so if they are basketball stars they wont play football. An example of this was a kid from Pike Central a few years back Bobbie Mullins didnt play football for the fear of getting hurt untill his senior season. He could have been a great WR with his 6'4 or 6'5 frame. From what I hear he regrets not playing football for 4 years because he never hit his full potential and was still getting looks from colleges.
Bobcat_Dad Wrote:It is?????? I never realized that??????
Basketball in the Mountains has always been the sweethearts in years past. 20-30 years ago they were many more High Schools in the Mtns. The basketball teams were the hearts of the SMALL SCHOOLS. It was very hard for them to compete in football but they could in B-ball. I think that has changed now as basketball as a whole has really dropped in level of play in the state of KY. Basketball is a sport that kids have to work as individual to get really good, (working on shooting, ballhandling and etc.) most will not do that today. Football workouts are usually done in groups and we all know what peer preasure does.
More teams in the mountains can compete for a state title in football now because they went to six classes. This puts teams in the Top 10 in ratings that normally wouldn't be there. You are right, basketball teams were the hearts of the small schools and it is still the heart of Kentucky overall although football has come a long way. I think it is according to your school whether the level of play has dropped and this also goes in cycles. Football is as guilty as any sport of coaches trying to keep kids from playing basketball and baseball. I love football, but basketball is still king and will be king for a time to come. The Sweet Sixteen's smallest crowd during the week is bigger then the largest crowd at the football state tournament. In some instances, the crowd at the girls basketball tournament is bigger. It is according to what schools are playing.
15thRegionSlamaBamma Wrote:I have to disagree, you can not generalize this because its not all of EKY its all about the school and where THEY put their eggs. For example Pikeville, Belfry, Sheldon Clark, Johnson Central, Bell County, Hazard, P-Burg, recently Perry Central, and Letcher Central all get out and support football more than basketball. On these teams you have kids who do not play basketball and focus on football. One of the primary examples here is Michael Campbell from hazard he gave up basketball to focus on football. At Pikeville alot of the kids who play football do not play basketball to hit the weights through out basketball season. Idk if this is true but I have heard that if you play football at P-Burg they do not want you playing basketball now (maybe someone can clarify that for me). All of the schools mentioned above you can go to one of their football games and it will be packed out go to a basketball game and you will see the same faces every year and then a few extras. With that said then you have schools like Pike Central and Shelby Valley who focus mainly on basketball and have great crowds for those games however, since the hiring of Champman alot of kids are going out for football now, fans are coming out more, students are more excited about football season rather than basketball season. Once again its all about the school. I think one of the big problems is you have alot of Mommies and Daddies now not wanting their kids to get hurt playing football so if they are basketball stars they wont play football. An example of this was a kid from Pike Central a few years back Bobbie Mullins didnt play football for the fear of getting hurt untill his senior season. He could have been a great WR with his 6'4 or 6'5 frame. From what I hear he regrets not playing football for 4 years because he never hit his full potential and was still getting looks from colleges.
One of the reasons you have more people at football games is they are only 10 regular season games and only 4 to 6 of them are home. Basketball will play an average of 2 or 3 a week from December to March with an average of 10 to 15 home games. It is also economic as we live in an area that is struggling economically and it is easier to pay to go to one game a week instead of two or three. Whenever Letcher Central boys basketball are playing well and playing a good team, they will have a large crowd. Any coach that influences his kids not to play another sport should be FIRED no matter what sport they coach. A good school with good coaches,administration, and staff that work together will have competitive programs in most sports. I think it is a shame when one school focuses on one sport and says "to heck" with the rest. We have several in the mountains that are like that and many of them are at schools large enough to do better. Another problem is some schools have an ultra successful coach who wants to garner all the attention and doesn't want anyone else at the school to be successful.
- Most high schools 60-70 yrs. ago in the EKY area had fewer than 150 students. It made for difficulty in finding enough players.
- Football is/was much more expensive to equip and required enough property to set up a playing field. Most lacked one or the other, and some had neither. Here, flat ground comes at a premium - so the money and geography factor are also interrelated.
- Coach Rupp's success at UK had some effect, I'm sure, but this was a basketball-predominated area even before that.
oneijoe Wrote:- Most high schools 60-70 yrs. ago in the EKY area had fewer than 150 students. It made for difficulty in finding enough players.
- Football is/was much more expensive to equip and required enough property to set up a playing field. Most lacked one or the other, and some had neither. Here, flat ground comes at a premium - so the money and geography factor are also interrelated.
- Coach Rupp's success at UK had some effect, I'm sure, but this was a basketball-predominated area even before that.
You are correct. In 1928 Ashland won the state tournament and Carr Creek(located in Knott County) was the state runnerup. This game put high school basketball in Kentucky on the map. Both went on to the national tournament in Chicago which Ashland won. This is all before Coach Rupp started winning.
I think it is due to every community no matter how small has a chance to compete in basketball. Look at Elliott County they still don't have enough to put a football team together but look at the basketball program.
OrangenowBlue Wrote:One of the reasons you have more people at football games is they are only 10 regular season games and only 4 to 6 of them are home. Basketball will play an average of 2 or 3 a week from December to March with an average of 10 to 15 home games. It is also economic as we live in an area that is struggling economically and it is easier to pay to go to one game a week instead of two or three. Whenever Letcher Central boys basketball are playing well and playing a good team, they will have a large crowd. Any coach that influences his kids not to play another sport should be FIRED no matter what sport they coach. A good school with good coaches,administration, and staff that work together will have competitive programs in most sports. I think it is a shame when one school focuses on one sport and says "to heck" with the rest. We have several in the mountains that are like that and many of them are at schools large enough to do better. Another problem is some schools have an ultra successful coach who wants to garner all the attention and doesn't want anyone else at the school to be successful.
When you think of Perry Central and Hazard you think of great basketball tradition not football. People in Perry County live and breath basketball.
certain schools around here favor basketball, like pcc. other schools favor football, like breathitt. its all about what the school is more into i think.
Cat Daddy Wrote:When you think of Perry Central and Hazard you think of great basketball tradition not football. People in Perry County live and breath basketball.
You are right but they have also developed competitive football programs also. When Bell County, Belfry, and Prestonsburg's football season is over, they basically shut the athletics department down until July when football practice starts. Knott County and, up until this year, Shelby Valley, does the same thing when basketball season is over.
oneijoe Wrote:- Most high schools 60-70 yrs. ago in the EKY area had fewer than 150 students. It made for difficulty in finding enough players.
- Football is/was much more expensive to equip and required enough property to set up a playing field. Most lacked one or the other, and some had neither. Here, flat ground comes at a premium - so the money and geography factor are also interrelated.
- Coach Rupp's success at UK had some effect, I'm sure, but this was a basketball-predominated area even before that.
Great post
In Lawrence County we are most certain a football school. The argument has been for years about funding to all sports wasn't fair because football brings in the most money.
Some thought
1. Basketball can be played by yourself. Try and throw yourself some passes versus shooting some hoops.
2. traditions has some things to do with it.
3. Some don't want to do what it takes to be a good football player even though there are more opportunities in football
Football1 Wrote:Feel free to disagree, as I'd love to learn that I'm wrong - but living in the Mountains of E. KY where I have coached football in grades 2-8 and now have a son playing HS I'd love to understand this one. Observations:
- Many great athletes refuse to play football to focus on basketball but rarely the other way around. And many of those same athletes are under 6'3" and could really be great football players. Why put your eggs in one basket?
- Game Attendance: When KC played Clay this year (televised) the stands were only 80% full. I have been to Grade School bball tournaments that fill a varsity gym. Why do communities in KY not get behind football by attending the games?
I realize the historical success of UK is a primary reason for all of this. I just wonder if there are not other reasons or if maybe I'm wrong?:thanks:
You made the statement that it rarely happens, go to bell Co. where many great players only play football. I think that the football team could beat the basketball team,this is not a put-down of the basketball team but only to say how much the football players work during the off season. Even the kids that do play basketball still does their workout after basketball practice. I maybe wrong but come to the 13th where it is almot become even. Pineville,Middlesboro,Bell,Harlan,Harlan City,Lynn camp,Whitley,Knox and Corbin-Football
Clay,Barbourville(no football program),South and North Laurel,Jackson,Redbird(nfp),OBI(nfp),-Basketball
I would like to here from someone in Williamsburg to clse to call in my opinion. Now some of these schools may also be more toward being both.
Now to address the reson of people at basketball and not football,weather. When going to football game you must be ready for all weather, basketball has the same weather each game you go to.
Mainly because UK is so prevalent in basketball. Also the small schools in eastern kentucky don't have football teams so there is more competition in basketball and kids have more of a chance to shine in basketball because its more heavily watched and televised.
Maid of the Mts. Wrote:You made the statement that it rarely happens, go to bell Co. where many great players only play football. I think that the football team could beat the basketball team,this is not a put-down of the basketball team but only to say how much the football players work during the off season. Even the kids that do play basketball still does their workout after basketball practice. I maybe wrong but come to the 13th where it is almot become even. Pineville,Middlesboro,Bell,Harlan,Harlan City,Lynn camp,Whitley,Knox and Corbin-Football
Clay,Barbourville(no football program),South and North Laurel,Jackson,Redbird(nfp),OBI(nfp),-Basketball
I would like to here from someone in Williamsburg to clse to call in my opinion. Now some of these schools may also be more toward being both.
Now to address the reson of people at basketball and not football,weather. When going to football game you must be ready for all weather, basketball has the same weather each game you go to.
Then why are these players not playing basketball. Is someone telling them not to. Corbin is traditionally a football school that is competitive in all sports. Why can't a larger Bell County school do the same thing.
OrangenowBlue Wrote:You are correct. In 1928 Ashland won the state tournament and Carr Creek(located in Knott County) was the state runnerup. This game put high school basketball in Kentucky on the map. Both went on to the national tournament in Chicago which Ashland won. This is all before Coach Rupp started winning.
Wow - great post. Had no idea.
Maid of the Mts. Wrote:You made the statement that it rarely happens, go to bell Co. where many great players only play football. I think that the football team could beat the basketball team,this is not a put-down of the basketball team but only to say how much the football players work during the off season. Even the kids that do play basketball still does their workout after basketball practice. I maybe wrong but come to the 13th where it is almot become even. Pineville,Middlesboro,Bell,Harlan,Harlan City,Lynn camp,Whitley,Knox and Corbin-Football
Clay,Barbourville(no football program),South and North Laurel,Jackson,Redbird(nfp),OBI(nfp),-Basketball
I would like to here from someone in Williamsburg to clse to call in my opinion. Now some of these schools may also be more toward being both.
Now to address the reson of people at basketball and not football,weather. When going to football game you must be ready for all weather, basketball has the same weather each game you go to.
I think Bell is an exception to the "BBall rules over football" thinking that seems to dominate this area. Bell has had great success which draws players. The mere mortal teams still lose players to BBall every year. I just think it would be a great service to players and teams if BBall coaches would support kids who want to play football. Your points are all good ones though.
Alot of it is the school you went to. The teams from mountains don;t have a good basketball and football team. Take Breathitt, Pikeville, Belfry, Bell all of these school is better at football then basketball.
There is some that is good at both sports, just take Hazard.
Just take St-X and T, everone in the state know about there football teams, But you don't never hear anything about them in basketball.
Reasons?
1. UK, everybody wants to wear the blue.
2. numbers. it takes fewer players for a b-ball team
3. cost. it cost more equipment wise and facility wise to field a football team
4. Basketball is pretty much played year round now with AAU and community teams
5. Individuals vs. Group. A single player can stand out on the b-ball court not on a football field. "My baby is the next Michael Jordan" syndrome.
6. Football hurts. Granted basketball takes conditioning, but much less physical contact and controlled violence.
7. weather. Nice warm gym or rain, snow, heat, mud, sleet, hail.
Maid of the Mts. Wrote:You made the statement that it rarely happens, go to bell Co. where many great players only play football. I think that the football team could beat the basketball team,this is not a put-down of the basketball team but only to say how much the football players work during the off season. Even the kids that do play basketball still does their workout after basketball practice. I maybe wrong but come to the 13th where it is almot become even. Pineville,Middlesboro,Bell,Harlan,Harlan City,Lynn camp,Whitley,Knox and Corbin-Football
Clay,Barbourville(no football program),South and North Laurel,Jackson,Redbird(nfp),OBI(nfp),-Basketball
I would like to here from someone in Williamsburg to clse to call in my opinion. Now some of these schools may also be more toward being both.
Now to address the reson of people at basketball and not football,weather. When going to football game you must be ready for all weather, basketball has the same weather each game you go to.
The most visible and top sport at Clay Co is football by a wide margin now. You can sort of compare Clay basketball to what happened at Uk basketball the last two years. Football got a big boost at Ky because of the direction the basketball program was taking under Gillisipe. The same is happening at Clay Co. :Thumbs:
fan first Wrote:The most visible and top sport at Clay Co is football by a wide margin now. You can sort of compare Clay basketball to what happened at Uk basketball the last two years. Football got a big boost at Ky because of the direction the basketball program was taking under Gillisipe. The same is happening at Clay Co. :Thumbs:
Clay County starts making trips again to the Sweet Sixteen, the football team will be long forgot about.