For years, great teams relied on running the ball with lead blockers (Bone, I, etc.). Now it seems the spread offense is starting to move into high school. Are teams better off in HS to focus on old school running formations or should the be moving to West Coast like spread strategies?
bone still works good,go with the talent u got
I think a mixture is the best for great results. When it is 3rd and 2 you need to be able to punch it in and get first downs. But spreading the field and getting matchups is hard to defend. So I think you have to have both ends of the spectrum to win consistently!
How about the one that will win games.
I have seen teams like Bell and Corbin use the Bone for years and all they do is win. It is one of the oldest formations in football and for HS, it just seems to be a great scheme. I coached Middle School for years and we used it with great success. We spread on occasion but had trouble running without lead blockers.
I think teams go away from tried and true more out of boredom than necessity. Offensive coordinators also want marketable skills and since colleges don't use the bone they often feel pressured to spread. Thanks for your opinions.
I like the spread because it can get more athletes involved. However, the only reason Belfry stayed in the game with Central in '07 and Russell with Mercer County in '06 was because of the wishbone. Man on man both Belfry and Russell were outmatched against those teams. Also, the wishbone is not seen by the Louisville/Lex/NKY schools that much and it can hard to prepare for in one week.
Up the gut smashmouth football is the best...:rockon:
Brian Milam Wrote:I like the spread because it can get more athletes involved. However, the only reason Belfry stayed in the game with Central in '07 and Russell with Mercer County in '06 was because of the wishbone. Man on man both Belfry and Russell were outmatched against those teams. Also, the wishbone is not seen by the Louisville/Lex/NKY schools that much and it can hard to prepare for in one week.
Your point here is why I love the bone. No matter how old it appears, the fact is it gives an offense the fastest way to outnumber a defense (blockers to tacklers) at the point of attack. The power I formation gives away your strong side whereas the bone is even and harder to predict. Even teams with athletes that are not as big or strong can move the ball with this powerful formation by attacking a hole with 2 lead blockers followed by a patient back. I hope teams continue to use this style of play for years to come!
logmountainboy64 Wrote:Up the gut smashmouth football is the best...:rockon:
Could not agree more!
Brian Milam Wrote:I like the spread because it can get more athletes involved. However, the only reason Belfry stayed in the game with Central in '07 and Russell with Mercer County in '06 was because of the wishbone. Man on man both Belfry and Russell were outmatched against those teams. Also, the wishbone is not seen by the Louisville/Lex/NKY schools that much and it can hard to prepare for in one week.
Russell never ran the wishbone.
Do not get confused between an offensive system and a formation. The wishbone is a formation and not a system. Teams run option, power, belly read, belly non read and a number of other things out of the bone.
"Spread" is the same way in that it is more of a set of formation types then an offensive system.
From what I remember about Russell is that they ran most of the time out of a wing t type look. They had a nice little QB counter out of it that went off a cross buck type action. More with 2 TEs I believe and they did run out of the power I some.
smash mouth football is the only way to go but if you have agood reciever like bell used to in buckeye hunter and a few other unmentionables you can throw the ball but only if you have a good QB that can sling it aroud like zachery used to
I have always wondered how effective a team using the Bone formation could be passing and running equally. I have had success with play action and bootlegs out of the double tight sets but rarely throwing to the backs.
Any examples of team who passed regulary out of typical running formations?
barrel Wrote:Do not get confused between an offensive system and a formation. The wishbone is a formation and not a system. Teams run option, power, belly read, belly non read and a number of other things out of the bone.
"Spread" is the same way in that it is more of a set of formation types then an offensive system.
From what I remember about Russell is that they ran most of the time out of a wing t type look. They had a nice little QB counter out of it that went off a cross buck type action. More with 2 TEs I believe and they did run out of the power I some.
Nice point on the difference between a formation and a system.
FBALL Wrote:Russell never ran the wishbone.
You are correct. I was simply referring to teams who use the bone or a running game that is tough to prepare for. In Russell's offense there is a lot more mis-direction and you can't gamble that often (defensively) because you will get burned.
Football1 Wrote:I have always wondered how effective a team using the Bone formation could be passing and running equally. I have had success with play action and bootlegs out of the double tight sets but rarely throwing to the backs.
Any examples of team who passed regulary out of typical running formations?
This depends on what you call "regulary" and "typical running formation". Throwing out of 2 TEs is not tough in the passing game. How you arrange the rest of the backs does make it tougher. There are certain formations which just are not ideal for throwing the football. A wishbone team can use the same passing system that the MI dead T teams use.
If your in the bone your in it for a reason and that is to run a majority of the time. That is just the nature of certain formations and systems. The funny thing is going 2 TE in truth spreads the defense more than many of those "spread" teams. When you start removing TEs you start compressing the defense and you lose at least 2 gaps to run through. I do not know how many times I have heard people say you need to spread them out so you can run it. One of the biggest misunderstood things in football.
I would run bone a majority of the time then maybe audible out in to a passing formation with only the QB back there and still run it up the gut hard-nose + tricky plays = W
barrel Wrote:This depends on what you call "regulary" and "typical running formation". Throwing out of 2 TEs is not tough in the passing game. How you arrange the rest of the backs does make it tougher. There are certain formations which just are not ideal for throwing the football. A wishbone team can use the same passing system that the MI dead T teams use.
If your in the bone your in it for a reason and that is to run a majority of the time. That is just the nature of certain formations and systems. The funny thing is going 2 TE in truth spreads the defense more than many of those "spread" teams. When you start removing TEs you start compressing the defense and you lose at least 2 gaps to run through. I do not know how many times I have heard people say you need to spread them out so you can run it. One of the biggest misunderstood things in football.
I agree with your thoughts on the TE. This is a very underused position in Mountain Football. Few teams throw regularly to TEs and the gap off tackle is often overlooked. Double TE Wishbone sets force defenses to play all the gaps for run while making it very easy to get a catching TE in the flat or deep vertical against a safety who will likely move up on this formation. Spread offenses dilute your blocking ability at the point of attack and make passes predictable.
The Sidesaddle wing-T......Fleming Neon ran it in the late 80s and early 90s under Jack Hall and it was a ***** to play against, and a blast to watch from the stands.
Only a handful of schools in EKY have the athletes to run the spread. Most schools do have the the big brutes upfront and that's why If I where coaching at a small non-city or county school I'd just lineup and run it at the defense, smashmouth style.
we are a perfect example of why the spread does not work. run the bone. run it up the gut and when you want to change things up run a toss or a sweep lol.
TidesHoss32 Wrote:The Sidesaddle wing-T......Fleming Neon ran it in the late 80s and early 90s under Jack Hall and it was a ***** to play against, and a blast to watch from the stands.
My roomate in college played at Flemming Neon Under Coach Hall and that offense. It forced defenses to account for several different options even before the ball was snapped. They had great success with limited personnel using this approach.
The thing I detest about the spread offense is forcing backs to run without a lead blocker. Linebackers love not having to deal with a big full back in their chin. We have tried all year to run out of this formation with little success. I vote Bone.
PaintsvilleTigerfan Wrote:we are a perfect example of why the spread does not work. run the bone. run it up the gut and when you want to change things up run a toss or a sweep lol.
agree!
Football1 Wrote:agree!
It was funny against Lawrence county we came out in the I and on the 2nd play Dyl ran it 40 yards for the score then we go to the shotgun and the rest is history lol. and even against pburg our D was decent we saked Burchett 3 or 4 times but once again that stupid spread couldnt do anything. we run out of the I the whole time against Maggofin and get the W then 2 weeks later against Allen Central We ran out of the spread and we couldnt move the ball at all. it frustrates me when the answer is there and the coaches can't or won't see it
i lie running and running then hitting them with a pass.....
run the ball , run the ball and throw little dump off passes
PaintsvilleTigerfan Wrote:It was funny against Lawrence county we came out in the I and on the 2nd play Dyl ran it 40 yards for the score then we go to the shotgun and the rest is history lol. and even against pburg our D was decent we saked Burchett 3 or 4 times but once again that stupid spread couldnt do anything. we run out of the I the whole time against Maggofin and get the W then 2 weeks later against Allen Central We ran out of the spread and we couldnt move the ball at all. it frustrates me when the answer is there and the coaches can't or won't see it
This seems to be the growing trend for offenses in HS football around here. Its like they feel they have to spread since so many big colleges and pros do. Nobody will argue to that having a lead blocker is not the way to go. But every Friday night you see teams spread recievers on both sides of the ball (which linebackers ignore to a large degree) then hand off to a lone back and ask him to do the impossible. Just don't get it.
ahhh this is easy even i cant get this wrong best offense=great defense. dismissed:lmao:
bchater Wrote:ahhh this is easy even i cant get this wrong best offense=great defense. dismissed:lmao:
I will admit that is true - but having 11 on offense who can punch holes in a defense can sure take the pressure off!
TidesHoss32 Wrote:The Sidesaddle wing-T......Fleming Neon ran it in the late 80s and early 90s under Jack Hall and it was a ***** to play against, and a blast to watch from the stands.
Elkhorn City won state back in the 60's I believe with this offesne. East Ridge also tried too run it 05-06