Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz were among the 104 major league players listed as having tested positive for performance-enhancing substances in 2003, lawyers with knowledge of the results told The New York Times.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4366335
Not surprising at all!
Defiantly wish this wouldn't have happened though, because it will be on ESPN 24/7.
Agreed.
I dread watching ESPN for the next week or so.
Ahh god, I'm getting tired of this, IMO everyone that was playing in the early 2000's that was any kind of power hitter used some kind of enhancing drug.
Notice in the article, Canseco says tell me something I don't already know. He also includes that a Hall of Famer has taken it. I'll say Puckett, Gwynn, or Rickey Henderson. Never before has Jose said anything about a HOFer and being that he and Canseco were teammates I'm going to go with Rickey.
So tired of hearing about players taking enhancement drugs, id love to see seAson suspensions or lifelong bans
I'm tired of the Athletes saying that they did Steroids when it was not a "banned" substance in MLB. Well when is it that they get challenged on it being "ILLEGAL"...
As if any one of the 8 non-Red Sox fans (proudly including myself) on BGR needed another to reason to dislike Boston, we hear this, and get to hear this for the next 800 days. Thanks Boston. May it take you another 86 years to win another title. And get to hear your fans whine about the "Steroid curse".
TidesHoss32 Wrote:As if any one of the 8 non-Red Sox fans (proudly including myself) on BGR needed another to reason to dislike Boston, we hear this, and get to hear this for the next 800 days. Thanks Boston. May it take you another 86 years to win another title. And get to hear your fans whine about the "Steroid curse".
:moon:..WHATEVA
hh:
No Tolerance Rule, Lifelong Ban
Yeah really, as if Yankee fans needed another reason to not like Boston. It takes roids for Boston to win their World Series Titles.
Yankees, Boston (------ Its like the Hatfield McCoy Feud, But The Hatfield And McCoys Fought Fair
Not being a baseball fan at all, I think it is hilarious that Jose Canseco is the only one we can believe. Sad, but true.
Did I say Red Sox? Im sorry, I meant Roid Sox
Its a bigger story at this point to announce who WASNT on steroids during that period. I can just hear it now. "(Cue Sportscenter music) Coming up on sportscenter a shocking revelation by Jose Canseco that former Braves slugger David Justice was NOT on steroids" LOL!
Steroids were used in the late 90's early 2000's. Shocker. People are just going to have to live with it, and hope that the new testing will eliminate it.
bigjim4packers Wrote:Not being a baseball fan at all, I think it is hilarious that Jose Canseco is the only one we can believe. Sad, but true.
Sad but true
First thing I wanna say is that i do not agree with steroid use at all. I am totally against it, having said that everyone knows what the hardest thing to do in sports is. And thats hit a baseball. One key factor in doing so is hand-eye coordination, which steriods does not improve. True these players might have hit a homerun that barely squeeked over the wall, but these are professional player. They get paid because they know the art of hitting homeruns, they have the swing for it. I dont know the number but i'd say that at least 80% of the homeruns they hit were not squeekers. I honestly believe that if they were not on steroids that, that 80% of homeruns they hit would have still been homeruns. All because there 4-baggers goes farthers than others don't mean anything to me. As i said before i dont agree with steroids, but i'd never say anything to a David Ortiz, or Manny because they could do something without roids, that many americans couldnt do with steroids, and thats hit homeruns. Without hand-eye coordination, (which once again is not improved by steroids) and knowing the art of hitting the homerun,( which steroids do not help either), then they would have never made it to the majors.
Remorcefull Raider Wrote:First thing I wanna say is that i do not agree with steroid use at all. I am totally against it, having said that everyone knows what the hardest thing to do in sports is. And thats hit a baseball. One key factor in doing so is hand-eye coordination, which steriods does not improve. True these players might have hit a homerun that barely squeeked over the wall, but these are professional player. They get paid because they know the art of hitting homeruns, they have the swing for it. I dont know the number but i'd say that at least 80% of the homeruns they hit were not squeekers. I honestly believe that if they were not on steroids that, that 80% of homeruns they hit would have still been homeruns. All because there 4-baggers goes farthers than others don't mean anything to me. As i said before i dont agree with steroids, but i'd never say anything to a David Ortiz, or Manny because they could do something without roids, that many americans couldnt do with steroids, and thats hit homeruns. Without hand-eye coordination, (which once again is not improved by steroids) and knowing the art of hitting the homerun,( which steroids do not help either), then they would have never made it to the majors.
I completely disagree amd think that this is short-sighted. The art of hitting a baseball is unique, and those who consistently do it can do it without the assistance of performance enhancing drugs BUT AT A CONSIDERABLY LESS RATE!
C'mon, be real! Brady Anderson - Baltimore Orioles, a guy who hit anywhere from 18-20 HR's a year admitted that he used Steroids during the timeframe that he popped 50 in 1994. Would you consider 20 HR's a Great HR hitter? **** No! But when he put up 50, this guy was King Kong - He was instantly put into the same breath as Babe Ruth.
Brett Boone - a guy who hit 7-8 HR's a year, is he a Great HR hitter? Someone who has 'The Swing' that no other normal american has, Please! This guys goes on a 3 year splurge of 24, 35, 37 HR's in three seasons and now he has "The SWING", bull-crap, he was an admitted Steroid user during that period. He got off of the illegal substance and immediately he went to 7,7 and ZERO homeruns in the next three seasons.
I'm sorry, your thoery does not hold up to me. I'll give you that Manny and Ortiz may be the average HR hitter because of their God Given ability to hit a HR. But the average HR hitter is only going to give you 25 per season, Not 40, 50, and 60 HR's.
Without steroids, these guys may never have EVER made the major leagues. Neither have the other baseball skills needed - running, fielding and throwing. So, it tells me that without steroids, these idiots likely would have been playing baseball in the Dominican for beer money!
Remorcefull Raider Wrote:First thing I wanna say is that i do not agree with steroid use at all. I am totally against it, having said that everyone knows what the hardest thing to do in sports is. And thats hit a baseball. One key factor in doing so is hand-eye coordination, which steriods does not improve. True these players might have hit a homerun that barely squeeked over the wall, but these are professional player. They get paid because they know the art of hitting homeruns, they have the swing for it. I dont know the number but i'd say that at least 80% of the homeruns they hit were not squeekers. I honestly believe that if they were not on steroids that, that 80% of homeruns they hit would have still been homeruns. All because there 4-baggers goes farthers than others don't mean anything to me. As i said before i dont agree with steroids, but i'd never say anything to a David Ortiz, or Manny because they could do something without roids, that many americans couldnt do with steroids, and thats hit homeruns. Without hand-eye coordination, (which once again is not improved by steroids) and knowing the art of hitting the homerun,( which steroids do not help either), then they would have never made it to the majors.
I hope all of this was a joke that never got funny
No it wasnt a joke, and i stand by what i said. Thats my beliefs, im sorry that it upset you. Manny and David were brought into the leauge to hit homeruns not feild. Their homeruns usually are pretty good shot, well over the fence. All i was saying is that i honestly believe that without the steroids the homeruns that were 15 feet or more over the fence would have still been homeruns even if they wasnt on roids. Boone wasn't a homerun hitter, the reason you have such a big diffrence in his hr totals was simple. Take all the hits he had that were 5-10 feet from the wall and add 15 feet, the roids made him a hr hitter. They gave him the power that he needed to get that last 10-15 feet. I dont agree with steroids, and i believe, even though im dodgers fan, that if you caught using steroids you should have to set out at least a year, and spend a half a year in the minors until you prove that your off and can stay off the steroids. All im saying is, they dont improve hand-eye coordination, and if you aint got that you wouldnt be able to hit a ball, let alone hitting a homerun. And im not trying to say that Manny and David's homeruns would have dropped, because they would have, but the steroids dosnt make as big as a diffrence as everyone thinks it does.
Remorcefull Raider Wrote:No it wasnt a joke, and i stand by what i said. Thats my beliefs, im sorry that it upset you. Manny and David were brought into the leauge to hit homeruns not feild. Their homeruns usually are pretty good shot, well over the fence. All i was saying is that i honestly believe that without the steroids the homeruns that were 15 feet or more over the fence would have still been homeruns even if they wasnt on roids. Boone wasn't a homerun hitter, the reason you have such a big diffrence in his hr totals was simple. Take all the hits he had that were 5-10 feet from the wall and add 15 feet, the roids made him a hr hitter. They gave him the power that he needed to get that last 10-15 feet. I dont agree with steroids, and i believe, even though im dodgers fan, that if you caught using steroids you should have to set out at least a year, and spend a half a year in the minors until you prove that your off and can stay off the steroids. All im saying is, they dont improve hand-eye coordination, and if you aint got that you wouldnt be able to hit a ball, let alone hitting a homerun. And im not trying to say that Manny and David's homeruns would have dropped, because they would have, but the steroids dosnt make as big as a diffrence as everyone thinks it does.
WHAT :please::please::please:
How can you sit there and say that Boone adds 30 more feet to his swing to become a HR hitter and then you come back and say that steroids does not make that much of a difference. Are you telling me that Manny and Ortiz are that much different than McGwire and Sosa? Those guys were hitting 35 HR's until the period that we expect Steroids became a part of their game and now they are 50 plus guys, and you sit here and say that Manny and Ortiz are just natural HR hitters, so it wouldnt make that much of a difference?????
Would we be talking about Manny and Ortiz if they were 25-35 HR per year guys like we do now that they are 50 HR guys, NOOOOOOO!
As for your comment avout hand-ey coordination, you are missing what Steroids does. It adds to the the quick-twitch muscles, that is what gives these guys the advantage, not the power. Every guys in AAA baseball has that same hand-eye coordination as the guys in the Major leagues, so I still just don't get the validation of what you mean when you think Steorids does not make that much of a difference. IT HAS MADE THAT MUCH OF A DIFFERENCE!
All im saying is, that Manny and David are more so a homerun hitter than Boone. Boone was a good hitter just not a homerun hitter. Steroids does make a diffrence im not arguing that, im sayin that the homeruns they hit were more than likely going to be homeruns anyway, just not go as far. As for Boone, when he added those extra feet, they are what made his ball get over the fence. If I'm watchin Manyy before roids and he hits a homerun that that barely clears the fence, and then I'm watching him after roids and he hits one that clears the fence by 10 feet, both are home runs and guaruntee at least 1 run. It makes me feel no diffrent, a hr is a hr. I'm not trying to make that sound bad because i know that he probably hit some that juss squeeked over the fence when he was on roids, im juss sayin that even if he wasnt, al least 50% of his homeruns would have still been homeruns. I think if you want to be fair about it, someone should take a look at everyone of Barry Bonds homeruns,( since they first believe he was on roids), if the ball clears the fence by 5 or morefeet give it to him, 5 feet or in take it away.
Remorcefull Raider Wrote:All im saying is, that Manny and David are more so a homerun hitter than Boone. Boone was a good hitter just not a homerun hitter. Steroids does make a diffrence im not arguing that, im sayin that the homeruns they hit were more than likely going to be homeruns anyway, just not go as far. As for Boone, when he added those extra feet, they are what made his ball get over the fence. If I'm watchin Manyy before roids and he hits a homerun that that barely clears the fence, and then I'm watching him after roids and he hits one that clears the fence by 10 feet, both are home runs and guaruntee at least 1 run. It makes me feel no diffrent, a hr is a hr. I'm not trying to make that sound bad because i know that he probably hit some that juss squeeked over the fence when he was on roids, im juss sayin that even if he wasnt, al least 50% of his homeruns would have still been homeruns. I think if you want to be fair about it, someone should take a look at everyone of Barry Bonds homeruns,( since they first believe he was on roids), if the ball clears the fence by 5 or morefeet give it to him, 5 feet or in take it away.
We shall respectfully disagree on this one point, and I'll pose the point to you that I have been trying to make before. How can you say that Manny and David's homeruns would have been homeruns anyhow. It that's the case, then McGwire and Sosa and Bonds would have still hit 60-70 HR's just not as far? No, that's not the case, those guys would not have hit those extra 30-35 HR's. Remember, it was those three guys that hit Home Runs that were 500' plus, yet when they went off Juice, they obviously could not longer hit the ball 330! So, I still don't buy the point that these guys would still have hit HR's, just not as far. Un-un, they would not have hit the ball out period!
Well i agree that none of those three should hold any records, and i respect your of veiw and I admitted that they wouldnt have hit as many home runs, all that i am trying to say is that a homerun hitter is a homerun hitter, steroids or no steroids. I know we disagreed earlier, but still they have to have good hand eye coordnation, you said that roids strengthen your fast twitch muscles which makes your bad speed faster, but if you cant see the ball and you have no coordnation between what you see and your newely improved bat speed your not gonna hit it. But i aggre that homerun numbers would have went down, but i just cant sit here an badmouth a man who can stand up there a take a 95 mph fastball 420 feet over center field fence, when i know that i and probably most Americans cant do it. Even if we were on steroids. I guess my final point is hand-eye coordination, if you cant see the ball and know what its gonna do, if its gonna sink, curve, slide, or stay straight and then watch it hit your bat, and making all them decision in a split second and making sure that you swing your bat at the right height to even hit the ball amazes me and ill never say a word about a man who can do that. Its a proven fact a MLB fastball is quicker than a human blink, if you blink and it's a fastball your done, you wont be able to hit it. I'm just amazed by these men and i respect them for being able to hit a homerun roids or no roids juss for that reason.
If they hadn't been on steroids, would they have able to fight off injuries to play a whole season to be at the plate day in and day out???? At their ages??? Probably not
I never said they were iron men either, but read my last post and then honestly tell me if you think you could do that. Hitting a baseball is so difficult failure gets you in the hall of fame. If you hit 300, 3 out of 10, 30% you make it to the hall of fame. Its alot easeir than shooting a basketball. (If you are who i think you are, you will know what i mean)
Remorcefull Raider Wrote:No it wasnt a joke, and i stand by what i said. Thats my beliefs, im sorry that it upset you. Manny and David were brought into the leauge to hit homeruns not feild. Their homeruns usually are pretty good shot, well over the fence. All i was saying is that i honestly believe that without the steroids the homeruns that were 15 feet or more over the fence would have still been homeruns even if they wasnt on roids. Boone wasn't a homerun hitter, the reason you have such a big diffrence in his hr totals was simple. Take all the hits he had that were 5-10 feet from the wall and add 15 feet, the roids made him a hr hitter. They gave him the power that he needed to get that last 10-15 feet. I dont agree with steroids, and i believe, even though im dodgers fan, that if you caught using steroids you should have to set out at least a year, and spend a half a year in the minors until you prove that your off and can stay off the steroids. All im saying is, they dont improve hand-eye coordination, and if you aint got that you wouldnt be able to hit a ball, let alone hitting a homerun. And im not trying to say that Manny and David's homeruns would have dropped, because they would have, but the steroids dosnt make as big as a diffrence as everyone thinks it does.
Stardust Wrote:WHAT :please::please::please:
How can you sit there and say that Boone adds 30 more feet to his swing to become a HR hitter and then you come back and say that steroids does not make that much of a difference. Are you telling me that Manny and Ortiz are that much different than McGwire and Sosa? Those guys were hitting 35 HR's until the period that we expect Steroids became a part of their game and now they are 50 plus guys, and you sit here and say that Manny and Ortiz are just natural HR hitters, so it wouldnt make that much of a difference?????
Would we be talking about Manny and Ortiz if they were 25-35 HR per year guys like we do now that they are 50 HR guys, NOOOOOOO!
As for your comment avout hand-ey coordination, you are missing what Steroids does. It adds to the the quick-twitch muscles, that is what gives these guys the advantage, not the power. Every guys in AAA baseball has that same hand-eye coordination as the guys in the Major leagues, so I still just don't get the validation of what you mean when you think Steorids does not make that much of a difference. IT HAS MADE THAT MUCH OF A DIFFERENCE!
Remorcefull Raider Wrote:All im saying is, that Manny and David are more so a homerun hitter than Boone. Boone was a good hitter just not a homerun hitter. Steroids does make a diffrence im not arguing that, im sayin that the homeruns they hit were more than likely going to be homeruns anyway, just not go as far. As for Boone, when he added those extra feet, they are what made his ball get over the fence. If I'm watchin Manyy before roids and he hits a homerun that that barely clears the fence, and then I'm watching him after roids and he hits one that clears the fence by 10 feet, both are home runs and guaruntee at least 1 run. It makes me feel no diffrent, a hr is a hr. I'm not trying to make that sound bad because i know that he probably hit some that juss squeeked over the fence when he was on roids, im juss sayin that even if he wasnt, al least 50% of his homeruns would have still been homeruns. I think if you want to be fair about it, someone should take a look at everyone of Barry Bonds homeruns,( since they first believe he was on roids), if the ball clears the fence by 5 or morefeet give it to him, 5 feet or in take it away.
Stardust Wrote:We shall respectfully disagree on this one point, and I'll pose the point to you that I have been trying to make before. How can you say that Manny and David's homeruns would have been homeruns anyhow. It that's the case, then McGwire and Sosa and Bonds would have still hit 60-70 HR's just not as far? No, that's not the case, those guys would not have hit those extra 30-35 HR's. Remember, it was those three guys that hit Home Runs that were 500' plus, yet when they went off Juice, they obviously could not longer hit the ball 330! So, I still don't buy the point that these guys would still have hit HR's, just not as far. Un-un, they would not have hit the ball out period!
Remorcefull Raider Wrote:Well i agree that none of those three should hold any records, and i respect your of veiw and I admitted that they wouldnt have hit as many home runs, all that i am trying to say is that a homerun hitter is a homerun hitter, steroids or no steroids. I know we disagreed earlier, but still they have to have good hand eye coordnation, you said that roids strengthen your fast twitch muscles which makes your bad speed faster, but if you cant see the ball and you have no coordnation between what you see and your newely improved bat speed your not gonna hit it. But i aggre that homerun numbers would have went down, but i just cant sit here an badmouth a man who can stand up there a take a 95 mph fastball 420 feet over center field fence, when i know that i and probably most Americans cant do it. Even if we were on steroids. I guess my final point is hand-eye coordination, if you cant see the ball and know what its gonna do, if its gonna sink, curve, slide, or stay straight and then watch it hit your bat, and making all them decision in a split second and making sure that you swing your bat at the right height to even hit the ball amazes me and ill never say a word about a man who can do that. Its a proven fact a MLB fastball is quicker than a human blink, if you blink and it's a fastball your done, you wont be able to hit it. I'm just amazed by these men and i respect them for being able to hit a homerun roids or no roids juss for that reason.
Remorcefull Raider Wrote:I never said they were iron men either, but read my last post and then honestly tell me if you think you could do that. Hitting a baseball is so difficult failure gets you in the hall of fame. If you hit 300, 3 out of 10, 30% you make it to the hall of fame. Its alot easeir than shooting a basketball. (If you are who i think you are, you will know what i mean)
Lol, STEROIDS ARE ENHANCEMENT DRUGS, ANYWAY YOU LOOK AT IT THEY CHEATED, NOTHING ELSE MATTERS, THEY SHOULD HAVE THERE RECORDS AND PRIDE RIPPED FROM THEM AND BE KICKED OUT OF THE LEAGUE, IMO......
I agree with getting there records taken away, but no being kicked out of the leauge. And your right roids are an enhancment drug, but they dont improve your hand-eye coordination. And you can ask any baseball expert, if you dont have hand-eye you'd never hit a baseball. I said roids were wrong, and i for one would never take them. But I won't look down upon someone who decides to, thats their choice. Like in my last post, I respect anyone who can do that.
Remorcefull Raider Wrote:I agree with getting there records taken away, but no being kicked out of the leauge. And your right roids are an enhancment drug, but they dont improve your hand-eye coordination. And you can ask any baseball expert, if you dont have hand-eye you'd never hit a baseball. I said roids were wrong, and i for one would never take them. But I won't look down upon someone who decides to, thats their choice. Like in my last post, I respect anyone who can do that.
I think a baseball expert would argue your point"
Back during the Palmeiro brew-ha-ha I heard Tony Gwynn talking about steroids & that he had known nothing until he was out of baseball on the subject of and the effect of steroids. He was studying up on the issue to be a commentator for ESPN so that he could speak knowledgeably on the subject. He said that the thing that shocked him the most was the fact that certain steroids can enhance your ability to see and hit the ball (winstrol(sp) is what come to mind as one he mentioned). He said that he alway thought that they just worked on "their craft" and got stronger. The knowledge changed everything for him. For me too.