Bluegrassrivals

PC_You_Know Wrote:I really could care less if you want to answer, read, acknowledge my posts or not, but you said that wasn't the "real" Elliott team, well the "real" Valley team of last year didn't miss all their 3's and miss 7 straight free throws. Could you please make it clear where it's obvious that Elliott was the better team?

You said More Cowbell is one of the "Real Valley Fans", well he also said the series was split and there's no way to make a case for either being better, so how about if you won't answer me, answer him and show us all how Elliott was the better team.

Question for you. Are you on here to bash Shelby Valley all the time, because I've not seen you talking about any other team on this site.

If you don't care then why do you keep bring it up?hh: :yawn:

Who won the most important game? Who has won 2 out of 3 meetings? Who played a overall tougher schedule?Who put a good beatdown on Mason while the other team barely got by them? Now prove they were not the best team of the two.

Answer to your Question,I have talked about a lot of teams other than SV and FYI I have gave SV their props on here,much more than you have given any team.:eyeroll:

Now Jr. go lay down :lmao:

kybaseball Wrote:If you don't care then why do you keep bring it up?hh: :yawn:

Who won the most important game? Who has won 2 out of 3 meetings? Who played a overall tougher schedule?Who put a good beatdown on Mason while the other team barely got by them? Now prove they were not the best team of the two.

Answer to your Question,I have talked about a lot of teams other than SV and FYI I have gave SV their props on here,much more than you have given any team.:eyeroll:

Now Jr. go lay down :lmao:

Thanks dad, considering I am a Jr., you must be the man I've been looking for.

PC_You_Know Wrote:Thanks dad, considering I am a Jr., you must be the man I've been looking for.

Now that is not half bad.:Thumbs: :Thumbs: :lmao: Don't look at me I'm broke.

It's very frustrating that you two guys hijack nearly all Shelby Valley threads by arguing with each other. I'm sure there are other posters like me that wish you would take it to PM's or grow up...

:popcorn:

The King Wrote:It's very frustrating that you two guys hijack nearly all Shelby Valley threads by arguing with each other. I'm sure there are other posters like me that wish you would take it to PM's or grow up...

:Clap: :thatsfunn We are not the only two that argue,and we are talking about SV so we are hijacking nothing. Instead of telling people to grow up maybe you should loosen up.No one is forcing anyone to read anything.

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

kybaseball Wrote:I agree both games were hotly contested,They win in the sweet 16 holds quite a bit more weight than the all A. Elliott got the best SV could offer in both games against them SV got the real Elliott once and lost. Elliott should have taken the all A a little more serious but they didn't no excuses so they will pay the price by opening the door and letting SV be in the same conversation with them.

kybaseball Wrote:Who won the most important game? Who has won 2 out of 3 meetings? Who played a overall tougher schedule?Who put a good beatdown on Mason while the other team barely got by them? Now prove they were not the best team of the two.

I will disagree with you on some other points...

You can argue that the game in the Sweet Sixteen was more important than the one in the All-A, and I will agree that it is certainly a much bigger stage. One could argue though, that while Elliott's win over SV led to nothing, SV's win over Elliott propelled them to an All-A state title. If I had to pick one of the two to have won, I would still pick the earlier game. In my mind, an All-A title is better than none at all. But regardless of whether either game was more important, it doesn't mean that the winner of the "more important" game should be considered the better team.

Second, the "2 out of 3" argument doesn't work here, since we are only talking about who was the better team in '08-09. The other game you speak of was in 2007, and since it was the only game between the teams that year, I will completely concede that Elliott was the better team in '06-07. But that game two years ago holds no relevance to this year's debate.

Third, comparing the two games with Mason is not valid either. The difference is that while SV played Mason in Rupp on a neutral court, Elliott got to play them in their own home gym. So the point differential is not surprising at all. I'd wager that if SV had played Mason at Robinson Creek this past year, we would've seen a larger margin.

Finally, the argument that Elliott got "SV's best" both times, while the real Elliott only showed up once. I'll say right now that Elliott didn't get SV's best shot in either game, yet Valley still managed to win one. Trust me, when SV misses 10 staright free throws down the stretch to blow a double digit lead, you're not seeing them "at their best." Then, in Rupp, SV had one of their poorer shooting days, yet still managed to hang around close to the end.

People supporting Elliott and Valley could go back and forth saying that their team played nervous, or didn't shoot well, or weren't ready, or whatever. I think Valley should have won both meetings, but they didn't. I'm sure you feel Elliott should have won both times, but they didn't.

The bottom line for fans of both schools is that no matter who played good and who didn't, in the end the two teams split the two head-to-head matchups. To me, this means that neither school can claim superiority this past season, and considering how evenly matched the two teams were, that's not necessarily a bad thing. :biggrin:

2 out of 3 does work here since both teams had many of the same players.

As far as the all A goes SV got the trophy and it is a nice accomplishment but Elliott won the imagination of the basketball world,when you have ESPN doing articles on your team that is just a little bit bigger than winning the all A.

The Mason thing is valid because Mason was ready to play both teams,even though the game was at Elliott the tv cameras were rolling and Mason gave extra effort.To be honest Mason really and truly should have won that game at Rupp,they didn't have a chance of beating Elliott from the get go.


I agree with your point both teams fans will say their teams should have both games.

All in all this has been a great debate,both teams are pretty good,truth of the matter is neither could beat Holmes to win the title.

Which teams if any in the 15th will challenge SV next season.

kybaseball Wrote:2 out of 3 does work here since both teams had many of the same players.

As far as the all A goes SV got the trophy and it is a nice accomplishment but Elliott won the imagination of the basketball world,when you have ESPN doing articles on your team that is just a little bit bigger than winning the all A.

The Mason thing is valid because Mason was ready to play both teams,even though the game was at Elliott the tv cameras were rolling and Mason gave extra effort.To be honest Mason really and truly should have won that game at Rupp,they didn't have a chance of beating Elliott from the get go.


I agree with your point both teams fans will say their teams should have both games.

All in all this has been a great debate,both teams are pretty good,truth of the matter is neither could beat Holmes to win the title.

Which teams if any in the 15th will challenge SV next season.

I would have to say that if Mason gave extra effort in either game, it would have to be the state tournament game. TV or not, the state is quite a bit bigger stage than any game at Elliott County will ever be. Why do you say that Mason should have won at Rupp? We could just as easily say that SV should have won by more. In the All A, it could be said that SV should have and would have won by 12-15 points if the free throws are made. This argument could go on forever, though.

As far as competition for next year, I'd say Johnson Central and Lawrence will be the biggest threats.

DortonWildcat5 Wrote:I would have to say that if Mason gave extra effort in either game, it would have to be the state tournament game. TV or not, the state is quite a bit bigger stage than any game at Elliott County will ever be. Why do you say that Mason should have won at Rupp? We could just as easily say that SV should have won by more. In the All A, it could be said that SV should have and would have won by 12-15 points if the free throws are made. This argument could go on forever, though.

As far as competition for next year, I'd say Johnson Central and Lawrence will be the biggest threats.

Yes, this argument could go on forever. I get what your saying about a game in Elliott but being on TV was not your everyday game.

Do you know what Lawrence has coming back? How many times do the meet next season?

kybaseball Wrote:Yes, this argument could go on forever. I get what your saying about a game in Elliott but being on TV was not your everyday game.

Do you know what Lawrence has coming back? How many times do the meet next season?

I know Lawrence has Skaggs who averaged just under 12 ppg last year coming back. They also have Frasher 10 ppg and probably best rebounder, Adkins 9 ppg and pretty good rebounder, and Baldwin 8 ppg.

SV and Lawrence meet 1 time in the regular season next year. The game will be at SV. They have played once each year for the past few years. Last year's game was at Lawrence.

kybaseball Wrote:2 out of 3 does work here since both teams had many of the same players.

As far as the all A goes SV got the trophy and it is a nice accomplishment but Elliott won the imagination of the basketball world,when you have ESPN doing articles on your team that is just a little bit bigger than winning the all A.

The Mason thing is valid because Mason was ready to play both teams,even though the game was at Elliott the tv cameras were rolling and Mason gave extra effort.To be honest Mason really and truly should have won that game at Rupp,they didn't have a chance of beating Elliott from the get go.

I agree with your point both teams fans will say their teams should have both games.

All in all this has been a great debate,both teams are pretty good,truth of the matter is neither could beat Holmes to win the title.

Which teams if any in the 15th will challenge SV next season.

I still say that the point differential in the Mason games is not a good point of comparison. From what I understand, Elliott has a great home-court advantage (just like SV) and rarely loses at home. You have to admit that the home court helped Elliott out in that game. My take is that if Mason played SV at Robinson Creek, you likely would have seen a 12+ point margin as well...

You are right in that Elliott did capture the hearts of the casual fans both across the state and throughout the country, thanks to all the pub on ESPN and in the Herald-Leader. Not saying they didn't deserve it, because they did, but SV could have just as easily been the team in the spotlight as well (mountain teams always make good underdogs). But in the end, winning an All-A state title is quite an accomplishment, one made even more special because Valley had to beat one of the best teams in the state to do it. Myself, I wouldn't trade that for any number of write-ups in the paper.

I do agree with you about one thing, that neither team would have beaten Holmes. Obviously Elliott had their shot at them and got beat by 10 points, and I think SV would've fared about the same against them. Holmes was just too good.

As for the 15th, it is Valley's to lose for one more year. Top contenders will again be Lawrence Co. and Johnson Central, but just like this past year it would be a monumental upset if SV doesn't take the regional title. If SV does win it, that would make them 6 regional titles in 9 seasons, starting in '01-02.

How about the 16th? Although he is a fine player, I don't guess Knipp will be able to carry Elliott to the regional title all by himself, so who will be the top contenders? Ashland? East/West Carter?

More Cowbell Wrote:I still say that the point differential in the Mason games is not a good point of comparison. From what I understand, Elliott has a great home-court advantage (just like SV) and rarely loses at home. You have to admit that the home court helped Elliott out in that game. My take is that if Mason played SV at Robinson Creek, you likely would have seen a 12+ point margin as well...

You are right in that Elliott did capture the hearts of the casual fans both across the state and throughout the country, thanks to all the pub on ESPN and in the Herald-Leader. Not saying they didn't deserve it, because they did, but SV could have just as easily been the team in the spotlight as well (mountain teams always make good underdogs). But in the end, winning an All-A state title is quite an accomplishment, one made even more special because Valley had to beat one of the best teams in the state to do it. Myself, I wouldn't trade that for any number of write-ups in the paper.

I do agree with you about one thing, that neither team would have beaten Holmes. Obviously Elliott had their shot at them and got beat by 10 points, and I think SV would've fared about the same against them. Holmes was just too good.

As for the 15th, it is Valley's to lose for one more year. Top contenders will again be Lawrence Co. and Johnson Central, but just like this past year it would be a monumental upset if SV doesn't take the regional title. If SV does win it, that would make them 6 regional titles in 9 seasons, starting in '01-02.

How about the 16th? Although he is a fine player, I don't guess Knipp will be able to carry Elliott to the regional title all by himself, so who will be the top contenders? Ashland? East/West Carter?

To be honest I think you can put those three teams along with Greenup and maybe Rose Hill put them in a bag shake them up then pull out the winner.It is going to be that wide open.It would suprise me if Knipp stays at Elliott,that is just my opinion though.

kybaseball Wrote:To be honest I think you can put those three teams along with Greenup and maybe Rose Hill put them in a bag shake them up then pull out the winner.It is going to be that wide open.It would suprise me if Knipp stays at Elliott,that is just my opinion though.

Knipp and Barnhill are understanding from what I hear, Had Barnhill came to Elliott last season.................We'd be hanging a banner!!!!!!!!!!!! So I say, look out for east!

More Cowbell Wrote:I still say that the point differential in the Mason games is not a good point of comparison. From what I understand, Elliott has a great home-court advantage (just like SV) and rarely loses at home. You have to admit that the home court helped Elliott out in that game. My take is that if Mason played SV at Robinson Creek, you likely would have seen a 12+ point margin as well...

You are right in that Elliott did capture the hearts of the casual fans both across the state and throughout the country, thanks to all the pub on ESPN and in the Herald-Leader. Not saying they didn't deserve it, because they did, but SV could have just as easily been the team in the spotlight as well (mountain teams always make good underdogs). But in the end, winning an All-A state title is quite an accomplishment, one made even more special because Valley had to beat one of the best teams in the state to do it. Myself, I wouldn't trade that for any number of write-ups in the paper.

I do agree with you about one thing, that neither team would have beaten Holmes. Obviously Elliott had their shot at them and got beat by 10 points, and I think SV would've fared about the same against them. Holmes was just too good.

As for the 15th, it is Valley's to lose for one more year. Top contenders will again be Lawrence Co. and Johnson Central, but just like this past year it would be a monumental upset if SV doesn't take the regional title. If SV does win it, that would make them 6 regional titles in 9 seasons, starting in '01-02.

How about the 16th? Although he is a fine player, I don't guess Knipp will be able to carry Elliott to the regional title all by himself, so who will be the top contenders? Ashland? East/West Carter?

When and if SV goes one such a run, (lead by "homegrown's instead of banking on TRANSFERS, yeah maybe maybe Valley will get some hype! Here's the deal, they done it better than valley............with half the enrollment!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Without transfers..................Hence the attention!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

letthebighogroot Wrote:Knipp and Barnhill are understanding from what I hear, Had Barnhill came to Elliott last season.................We'd be hanging a banner!!!!!!!!!!!! So I say, look out for east!

If Timmy goes to East then they are the odds on favoeite to take the 16th.

letthebighogroot Wrote:When and if SV goes one such a run, (lead by "homegrown's instead of banking on TRANSFERS, yeah maybe maybe Valley will get some hype! Here's the deal, they done it better than valley............with half the enrollment!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Without transfers..................Hence the attention!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What did they do better than Valley? Split a 2 game series and go one game farther in Rupp? Valley has a championship banner and trophy that Elliott doesn't.

letthebighogroot Wrote:When and if SV goes one such a run, (lead by "homegrown's instead of banking on TRANSFERS, yeah maybe maybe Valley will get some hype! Here's the deal, they done it better than valley............with half the enrollment!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Without transfers..................Hence the attention!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That one transfer definitely made them the team that they were didn't it? Curby Tackett played equal minutes as him off the bench for SV and could have easily been the starter. Adams is a good player, but they could have had close to the same success w/o him.

DortonWildcat5 Wrote:That one transfer definitely made them the team that they were didn't it? Curby Tackett played equal minutes as him off the bench for SV and could have easily been the starter. Adams is a good player, but they could have had close to the same success w/o him.

No way Valley would have had the same success this past year without Adams. You don't get rid of a 6'10 guy and expect to have the same success. He was the big difference in a lot of games for Valley this past year as a lot of teams didn't have the size to match up with both Hatfield and Adams.

kywldcat01 Wrote:No way Valley would have had the same success this past year without Adams. You don't get rid of a 6'10 guy and expect to have the same success. He was the big difference in a lot of games for Valley this past year as a lot of teams didn't have the size to match up with both Hatfield and Adams.

How many of their games did you see? I saw 30 of them.
If Adams wasn't sick and unable to play many minutes against Elliott in the State does SV win now? Believe me, I am not taking anything away from Deven because he was an important part of SV's team and I was thrilled that he came there, but if Curby Tackett had started you would have seen nearly the same results minus some foul trouble in a few games. SV actually had some bench play unlike Elliott. Tackett, Newsome, or Varney could have easily started w/o losing much if anything.

DortonWildcat5 Wrote:How many of their games did you see? I saw 30 of them.
If Adams wasn't sick and unable to play many minutes against Elliott in the State does SV win now? Believe me, I am not taking anything away from Deven because he was an important part of SV's team and I was thrilled that he came there, but if Curby Tackett had started you would have seen nearly the same results minus some foul trouble in a few games.

Now DortonWildcat, dont get kywildcat too fired up, he works with a recruiting site, he knows what would have happened and what will happen.

TheCandyManIsBack Wrote:Now DortonWildcat, dont get kywildcat too fired up, he works with a recruiting site, he knows what would have happened and what will happen.

If he is an expert on Holmes, I think he should leave it up to the SV fans to be experts on them don't you?

DortonWildcat5 Wrote:If he is an expert on Holmes, I think he should leave it up to the SV fans to be experts on them don't you?

I could agree on that, but he feels to stick his nose in every Valley thread.

TheCandyManIsBack Wrote:Now DortonWildcat, dont get kywildcat too fired up, he works with a recruiting site, he knows what would have happened and what will happen.

DortonWildcat5 Wrote:If he is an expert on Holmes, I think he should leave it up to the SV fans to be experts on them don't you?

TheCandyManIsBack Wrote:I could agree on that, but he feels to stick his nose in every Valley thread.

It's a public forum for people to voice their opinions. If you guys don't like it, you really don't have to read it. A lot of people felt the same way about the EC fans on another bluegrass site as a lot feel about the SV fans on this site. It's ok to be excited about your team, but a lot of you take it way overboard when referring to certain players.

Just because someone steps in and disagrees and voices their opinion doesn't make someone right or wrong. Never once have I proclaimed to be an "expert"...but I have seen a lot of basketball in my day and know how to look at players/teams (even Holmes) as an unbiased fan. Maybe some of you should step back and do the same. Not every player is as perfect as you like to talk them up to be...they do have negatives and flaws as well and it's ok to point them out. I've pointed negatives out about Holmes players, just as I have other players. No need to get riled up about it and make smart comments that young middle school kids would make. Try looking at things a little less biased and you'll notice a lot of the negative posts will go away.

kywldcat01 Wrote:It's a public forum for people to voice their opinions. If you guys don't like it, you really don't have to read it. A lot of people felt the same way about the EC fans on another bluegrass site as a lot feel about the SV fans on this site. It's ok to be excited about your team, but a lot of you take it way overboard when referring to certain players.

Just because someone steps in and disagrees and voices their opinion doesn't make someone right or wrong. Never once have I proclaimed to be an "expert"...but I have seen a lot of basketball in my day and know how to look at players/teams (even Holmes) as an unbiased fan. Maybe some of you should step back and do the same. Not every player is as perfect as you like to talk them up to be...they do have negatives and flaws as well and it's ok to point them out. I've pointed negatives out about Holmes players, just as I have other players. No need to get riled up about it and make smart comments that young middle school kids would make. Try looking at things a little less biased and you'll notice a lot of the negative posts will go away.

You are totally wrong if you say I go overboard when talking about SV (if anything I make comments which lean the other way in giving other teams and players credit to make up for some overzealous posts by a couple of SV supporters) . I made a comment toward someone who acted as if 1 transfer made SV's season, when in reality, it did nothing of the such. You should be able to see that as an unbiased poster. I have seen almost every SV game for the past 10-12 years, and I think I may know a little more about their players than someone who has seen the team play very little (just like you would know much more about Holmes). Never once have I acted like any of SVs players were perfect. You talk up the "big 3" a lot more than you realize. Sure those guys are great ballplayers, but do you realize that many people on here get tired of hearing about them as well? It would be hard for me to make comments about Holmes individual players when I have seen them and their team very little so I stay away from that. You don't see me going to every Holmes thread and making comments like I know all about them. It would be my right, like it is yours to comment here, but I don't do it unless it is in a positive manner.

Nowhere in my post did I see any middle school type responses.

kywldcat01 Wrote:It's a public forum for people to voice their opinions. If you guys don't like it, you really don't have to read it. A lot of people felt the same way about the EC fans on another bluegrass site as a lot feel about the SV fans on this site. It's ok to be excited about your team, but a lot of you take it way overboard when referring to certain players.

Just because someone steps in and disagrees and voices their opinion doesn't make someone right or wrong. Never once have I proclaimed to be an "expert"...but I have seen a lot of basketball in my day and know how to look at players/teams (even Holmes) as an unbiased fan. Maybe some of you should step back and do the same. Not every player is as perfect as you like to talk them up to be...they do have negatives and flaws as well and it's ok to point them out. I've pointed negatives out about Holmes players, just as I have other players. No need to get riled up about it and make smart comments that young middle school kids would make. Try looking at things a little less biased and you'll notice a lot of the negative posts will go away.

I don't think you could look at basketball more biased than you or zulu.

DortonWildcat5 Wrote:That one transfer definitely made them the team that they were didn't it? Curby Tackett played equal minutes as him off the bench for SV and could have easily been the starter. Adams is a good player, but they could have had close to the same success w/o him.

agree 100%:rockon:

kywldcat01 Wrote:No way Valley would have had the same success this past year without Adams. You don't get rid of a 6'10 guy and expect to have the same success. He was the big difference in a lot of games for Valley this past year as a lot of teams didn't have the size to match up with both Hatfield and Adams.

You do not know what you are talking about.

DortonWildcat5 Wrote:You are totally wrong if you say I go overboard when talking about SV (if anything I make comments which lean the other way in giving other teams and players credit to make up for some overzealous posts by a couple of SV supporters) . I made a comment toward someone who acted as if 1 transfer made SV's season, when in reality, it did nothing of the such. You should be able to see that as an unbiased poster. I have seen almost every SV game for the past 10-12 years, and I think I may know a little more about their players than someone who has seen the team play very little (just like you would know much more about Holmes). Never once have I acted like any of SVs players were perfect. You talk up the "big 3" a lot more than you realize. Sure those guys are great ballplayers, but do you realize that many people on here get tired of hearing about them as well? It would be hard for me to make comments about Holmes individual players when I have seen them and their team very little so I stay away from that. You don't see me going to every Holmes thread and making comments like I know all about them. It would be my right, like it is yours to comment here, but I don't do it unless it is in a positive manner. Nowhere in my post did I see any middle school type responses.

Couldnt have said it any better myself. DortonWildcat5, you have a way with words.:notworthy