There has been a lot of debate as to which of the 2 main political parties claim to be more in line with Christian Family Values.
So what we are asking here is which political party do you think "Presents Itself" to be more in line with "Christian Family Values".
Then state below, as to why you feel that way.
The bible dosen't tell us what political party Jesus would have belonged to when he was here on Earth, but what the bible does tell us is that Jesus was a carpender and a teacher... And most carpender and teachers I know are Democrats.
While the Bible does not endorse specific parties it does lay out principles that we are to follow. Murder is against God's Word. Abortion is murder and since the Democratic Party endorses abortion I would go with the Republican party being more Family Values friendly. Unfortuately, neither party is going to win in that department.
This probally dosent have anything to do with the Thread, but the other day I was reading an article about "Christian-Communism". Apparently they believe they have evidence from the Bible saying Communism is the way too go...Now im not saying I agree with that in anyway.
"Christian Communism" does have a nice ring to it and could work possibly.
BIGREDDAWG Wrote:While the Bible does not endorse specific parties it does lay out principles that we are to follow. Murder is against God's Word. Abortion is murder and since the Democratic Party endorses abortion I would go with the Republican party being more Family Values friendly. Unfortuately, neither party is going to win in that department.
The same argument can be made for the Death Penalty. Republicans by and large support the death penalty even though innocent men and women are systematically killed by the government. If you think the Death Penalty is Humane try asking someone who works on Death Row.
Democrats line-up in protest against the death penalty citing the Constitutional protection against Cruel and Unusual Punishment. What part of suffocation is humane and not Cruel and Unusual.
So Democrats cannot be labled as less pro-life than Republicans.
DevilsWin Wrote:The same argument can be made for the Death Penalty. Republicans by and large support the death penalty even though innocent men and women are systematically killed by the government. If you think the Death Penalty is Humane try asking someone who works on Death Row.
Democrats line-up in protest against the death penalty citing the Constitutional protection against Cruel and Unusual Punishment. What part of suffocation is humane and not Cruel and Unusual.
So Democrats cannot be labled as less pro-life than Republicans.
I agree. That's why I say bring back the guillotine.
DevilsWin Wrote:The same argument can be made for the Death Penalty. Republicans by and large support the death penalty even though innocent men and women are systematically killed by the government. If you think the Death Penalty is Humane try asking someone who works on Death Row.
Democrats line-up in protest against the death penalty citing the Constitutional protection against Cruel and Unusual Punishment. What part of suffocation is humane and not Cruel and Unusual.
So Democrats cannot be labled as less pro-life than Republicans.
Apples to Oranges. The Death Penalty is reserved for heinous crimes and while some may be wrongfully convicted the vast majority of those on death row committed crimes worthy of the sentence. Abortion is the taking of INNOCENT life . . . this individual has not even had a chance to live. You won't convince me on this one.
BIGREDDAWG Wrote:Apples to Oranges. The Death Penalty is reserved for heinous crimes and while some may be wrongfully convicted the vast majority of those on death row committed crimes worthy of the sentence. Abortion is the taking of INNOCENT life . . . this individual has not even had a chance to live. You won't convince me on this one.
Arent all people innocent in the eyes of god if they ask to be forgiven? So who are we to judge who should die or not? I dont agree with abortion or the death penalty, Murder is murder, no matter who is killed.
Coach_Owens87 Wrote:Arent all people innocent in the eyes of god if they ask to be forgiven? So who are we to judge who should die or not? I dont agree with abortion or the death penalty, Murder is murder, no matter who is killed.
There is more to it than just asking for forgiveness, it is a turning away from sin and true repentance. God is merciful but he abhors the murder of the innocent. In our court of law everyone is presumed innocent until proven guilty. I am afraid the unborn do not get the same consideration. And if Obama makes good on his promise to pass the Freedom of Choice Act it will be a bloodbath of the unborn. Like I said, if the system convicts and sentences the guilty to death ---- (and this sentence is only for heinous crimes) then it should be carried out. While some may truly be innocent they are given avenues of appeal----I would venture to say the number of truly innocent death row inmates that are executed is very small compared to the innocent lives of the unborn that are murdered daily and with the sanction of our government. Pitiful . . . simply pitiful. Judge not lest you be judged is taken out of context and used to simply ignore the harsh reality of sin . . . there is such a thing as righteous indignation and judgement and we need to have it when it comes to the unborn.
What you are saying is that an unborn soul is more important than an older soul. Innocent souls get lost either way. Like I've said many times before. I am against death across the board. Assisted Suicide, Abortion and the Death Chamber. Killing is not something that civil societies do to one another. When they do, they are giving in to the animalistic nature that things like religion are supposed to combat.
I don't claim to be an expert on the subject because I believe there is only 1 "All Knowing Expert on Death". Anyone who attempts to put a Value on Life is playing a dangerous game with their Salvation.
Do the 7 Deadly Sins mean nothing anymore?
Are we living in an ethnocentric American Society?
BIGREDDAWG Wrote:There is more to it than just asking for forgiveness, it is a turning away from sin and true repentance. God is merciful but he abhors the murder of the innocent. In our court of law everyone is presumed innocent until proven guilty. I am afraid the unborn do not get the same consideration. And if Obama makes good on his promise to pass the Freedom of Choice Act it will be a bloodbath of the unborn. Like I said, if the system convicts and sentences the guilty to death ---- (and this sentence is only for heinous crimes) then it should be carried out. While some may truly be innocent they are given avenues of appeal----I would venture to say the number of truly innocent death row inmates that are executed is very small compared to the innocent lives of the unborn that are murdered daily and with the sanction of our government. Pitiful . . . simply pitiful. Judge not lest you be judged is taken out of context and used to simply ignore the harsh reality of sin . . . there is such a thing as righteous indignation and judgement and we need to have it when it comes to the unborn.
Abortion is between 3 people God, The mother and the unborn. The mother will answer to her actions the same as a criminal on Death Row.
It is not for us to make Judgements concerning other peoples souls and their lives.
An execution is sanctioned by an entire Government. No different than Pontius Pilate.
I watched this movie recently and I recommend it!
http://www.ifc.com/atthedeathhousedoor
DevilsWin Wrote:What you are saying is that an unborn soul is more important than an older soul. Innocent souls get lost either way. Like I've said many times before. I am against death across the board. Assisted Suicide, Abortion and the Death Chamber. Killing is not something that civil societies do to one another. When they do, they are giving in to the animalistic nature that things like religion are supposed to combat.
I don't claim to be an expert on the subject because I believe there is only 1 "All Knowing Expert on Death". Anyone who attempts to put a Value on Life is playing a dangerous game with their Salvation.
Do the 7 Deadly Sins mean nothing anymore?
Are we living in an ethnocentric American Society?
I assume you were referencing my post and for the record you are putting words in my mouth. Yes. ALL souls are important but I believe that God pronounced the death penalty for crimes and even mentioned that the murder of a woman who was with child was worthy of the death penalty. And before you start . . . that is the old law, the bible is true from cover to cover. God never changes . . . man does. The death penalty is a viable option for a select few crimes and it is very different than abortion. Apples to Oranges as I said before. Not sure what you mean by the comment "playing a dangerous game with their salvation" but for the record, I did nothing to earn my salvation it was a free gift, therefore, I can do nothing to lose it. Jesus paid it all. Past, present and future. That is what grace is all about.
DevilsWin Wrote:Abortion is between 3 people God, The mother and the unborn. The mother will answer to her actions the same as a criminal on Death Row.
It is not for us to make Judgements concerning other peoples souls and their lives.
An execution is sanctioned by an entire Government. No different than Pontius Pilate.
I watched this movie recently and I recommend it!
http://www.ifc.com/atthedeathhousedoor
There is such a thing as righteous judgement and we, as Christians are to discern between right and wrong. Abortion is wrong, pure and simple. A nation who sanctions the mass murder of the unborn by passing legislation to make it easy and readily available is placing itself under the wrath and judgement of an Almighty God. As far as the death penalty is concerned I think that it is appropriate under certain circumstances. I have explained my reasons before.
Coach_Owens87 Wrote:Arent all people innocent in the eyes of god if they ask to be forgiven? So who are we to judge who should die or not? I dont agree with abortion or the death penalty, Murder is murder, no matter who is killed.
Don't confuse the parochial with the secular - God's Law is not the same as man's law.
God should be the only judge of man regarding God's Law. However, man is empowered to judge one another according to man's laws. Jesus himself condoned abiding with BOTH.
BIGREDDAWG Wrote:There is such a thing as righteous judgement and we, as Christians are to discern between right and wrong. Abortion is wrong, pure and simple. A nation who sanctions the mass murder of the unborn by passing legislation to make it easy and readily available is placing itself under the wrath and judgement of an Almighty God. As far as the death penalty is concerned I think that it is appropriate under certain circumstances. I have explained my reasons before.
I will simply say this is as hypocritical a statement as I have ever read.
It is not the governments job to use tax dollars from private citizens to decide which lives are fit for castaway.
We're more concerned with AIG and GMs Bailout Money than the Blood on our hands.
I'm not sure the chapter an verse but, who remembers this one?
"Let he among us who has no sin, cast the first stone."
Devils Win in regard to your previous post I love (not) the way you take verses out of context. Let's just agree to disagree. I won't change your mind and you surely aren't going to change mind. Don't see where my previous post is hypocritical at all. There are instances throughout the Bible where God himself instituted the death penalty. Remember Aninias and Sephira? Lot's wife and practically the entire city of Sodom and Gomorrah? As for AIG and GM's bailout---you are right there, that should've never even been discussed let alone actually passing it. But, that topic is for another day.
BIGREDDAWG Wrote:Devils Win in regard to your previous post I love (not) the way you take verses out of context. Let's just agree to disagree. I won't change your mind and you surely aren't going to change mind. Don't see where my previous post is hypocritical at all. There are instances throughout the Bible where God himself instituted the death penalty. Remember Aninias and Sephira? Lot's wife and practically the entire city of Sodom and Gomorrah? As for AIG and GM's bailout---you are right there, that should've never even been discussed let alone actually passing it. But, that topic is for another day.
Since you like the Old Testament so much how about running down the list of 7 deadly sins for all of us.
DevilsWin Wrote:Since you like the Old Testament so much how about running down the list of 7 deadly sins for all of us.
Anninias and Sapphira are in the New Testment (Acts to be exact) but I will accomodate your question about the seven deadly sins found in Proverbs 6:16-19. As for liking the Old Testament I just believe the Bible as a whole has principles and precepts that we need to guide our decisions. I don't hold one principle or precept above another. The Bible contains the WHOLE counsel of God.
1. Haughty eyes
2. a lying tongue
3. hands that shed INNOCENT blood (Abortion)
4. a heart that devises wicked schemes
5. feet that are quick to rush to evil
6. bearing false witness
7. Pride
I assume you think the death penalty refers to #3. The key word is INNOCENT and when a convicted criminal is sentenced to the death penalty then a jury of his peers found him guilty. This is hardly innocent. We are human and mistakes are made but I guarantee you that most of those on death row commited heinous crimes worthy of the death penalty and deserve to be there. Abortion on the other hand is truly shedding INNOCENT blood.
BIGREDDAWG Wrote:Anninias and Sapphira are in the New Testment (Acts to be exact) but I will accomodate your question about the seven deadly sins found in Proverbs 6:16-19. As for liking the Old Testament I just believe the Bible as a whole has principles and precepts that we need to guide our decisions. I don't hold one principle or precept above another. The Bible contains the WHOLE counsel of God.
1. Haughty eyes
2. a lying tongue
3. hands that shed INNOCENT blood (Abortion)
4. a heart that devises wicked schemes
5. feet that are quick to rush to evil
6. bearing false witness
7. Pride
I assume you think the death penalty refers to #3. The key word is INNOCENT and when a convicted criminal is sentenced to the death penalty then a jury of his peers found him guilty. This is hardly innocent. We are human and mistakes are made but I guarantee you that most of those on death row commited heinous crimes worthy of the death penalty and deserve to be there. Abortion on the other hand is truly shedding INNOCENT blood.
Is the killing of 1 innocent acceptable to you? Not to me. 1 might as well be 1 million.
I think that the Dems are more for helping and caring for the less fortunate and showing Christian Love. They are less judging, and the Bible teaches to Judge not. Thats just me. I will not vote in this because I believe in the separation of Church and State.
OK Beetle, the only reason I posted this thread was because you said in another thread that the Republicans didn't claims to be more in line with Christain Family Values .
DevilsWin Wrote:Is the killing of 1 innocent acceptable to you? Not to me. 1 might as well be 1 million.
My point is if they were convicted by law they are not innocent. So I believe the death penalty is a viable option for heinous crimes and I believe this principle is shown in scripture. We will have to agree to disagree 'cause I am not budging and neither are you.
22lb Bass Wrote:I think that the Dems are more for helping and caring for the less fortunate and showing Christian Love. They are less judging, and the Bible teaches to Judge not. Thats just me. I will not vote in this because I believe in the separation of Church and State.
Bluegrass Rivals is a part of state government?
BIGREDDAWG Wrote:My point is if they were convicted by law they are not innocent. So I believe the death penalty is a viable option for heinous crimes and I believe this principle is shown in scripture. We will have to agree to disagree 'cause I am not budging and neither are you.
Innocent men and women are convicted all the time.
Unfit Counsel, Abusive Judges, and Prejudiced Jury's make sure of that.
So in an imperfect justice system, I'm saying we need not be killing anyone.
DevilsWin Wrote:Innocent men and women are convicted all the time.
Unfit Counsel, Abusive Judges, and Prejudiced Jury's make sure of that.
So in an imperfect justice system, I'm saying we need not be killing anyone.
Then why are you supporting abortion in another thread.:confused:
ImagineThat! Wrote:Then why are you supporting abortion in another thread.:confused:
"We" as in a Government for the People, of the People and by the People.
I have never supported abortion. Don't put words in my mouth. I recommend that no one gets an abortion. But it's their Choice, Their Soul, Their Salvation at stake. Not mine.
Gov't sponsored killing is totally different.
DevilsWin Wrote:"We" as in a Government for the People, of the People and by the People.
I have never supported abortion. Don't put words in my mouth. I recommend that no one gets an abortion. But it's their Choice, Their Soul, Their Salvation at stake. Not mine.
Gov't sponsored killing is totally different.
Government sponsors abortion ----that is killing bigtime. So, it is government sponsored killing. ABORTION is MURDER period. Capital punishment is done as restitution for a crime the criminal has been convicted of doing . . . and it has to meet certain criteria. While some on death row might be innocent, most aren't. The level of appeals available and the years it takes to get through them will usually vindicate those who are truly innocent.