I was just wandering everyones opinion on why football in the mountains has had an upswing over the past few years. I know that some programs have been staples for years, but now you see more and more teams getting over humps that teams before them couldn't.
Football is getting better everywhere. Coaches are better, players are better and facilities that are at these high schools sometimes rivals some lower level colleges. I was reading today that in texas, I know its not the mountains but still, that they have a stadium that cost 6.5 million and sat over 20 thousand fans.
Someone said an interesting thing to me the other day that got me thinking about this. As more and more mountain kids start going to college to play at the next level, more and more of these guys that have played at this level will then finish their college career and a lot of the time move back or get a coaching job somewhere with the knowlege that they learned in college. I thought this was a valid point.
Also look at the states College, UK. Basketball has been on a decline and football has been on the rise. When I was young I wanted to be Kenny Walker or Rex Chapman. UK basketball was in it's hey-day. Now you have football coming to the forefront with UK playing in 3 straight bowls and also being on ESPN a lot playing in marquee games, and winning them against LSU, GA, ect. I think this generation will remember the Andre Woodsons, Stevie Johnsons, and Randall Cobbs. Plus the publicity of high school athletes that play also. They get to go home during the season and see themselves on sports overtime, or friday night flights ect.
Not to be a downer...but it has more to do with more classes and more availability to advance deeper in the playoffs than anything.
I understand the fact that more teams are getting to go to the playoffs, but I'm talking about the fact that teams are running more complex offenses and defenses. Not too many years ago it was strictly smashmouth football. There seems to be more and more teams ( with the exception of a few like Whitley, Johnson Cen., Belfry, and Russell ) that instead of trying to run over people try to out-scheme teams. Just my thoughts.
I think our (Breathitt) success is due to the fact that we don't just have football players;we have athletes.Alot of schools frown on 2 and 3 sport stars and we used to but we realized .......hey ;you send that big basketball center into the endzone and throw him a football and he becomes a tight end.We have alot of plain athletes.Also we used to push JUST strength but now we work on speed and endurance.We also just have a good coach who decided we can both run and throw.
My Black Bears have just one season under their belt, but we had some good teams in Harlan County, with Cawood, Evarts, and Cumberland. I think maybe the consolidation of some schools have led to more excitement in their respective counties. I know here in Harlan County everyone got excited about this new football program. I really can't explain it though it may have to do with UK being respectable, but I have always been a football fan and loved to watch a game, but the last couple of years I have turned into a football junkie!
blitzingback Wrote:Someone said an interesting thing to me the other day that got me thinking about this. As more and more mountain kids start going to college to play at the next level, more and more of these guys that have played at this level will then finish their college career and a lot of the time move back or get a coaching job somewhere with the knowlege that they learned in college. I thought this was a valid point.
Also look at the states College, UK. Basketball has been on a decline and football has been on the rise. When I was young I wanted to be Kenny Walker or Rex Chapman. UK basketball was in it's hey-day. Now you have football coming to the forefront with UK playing in 3 straight bowls and also being on ESPN a lot playing in marquee games, and winning them against LSU, GA, ect. I think this generation will remember the Andre Woodsons, Stevie Johnsons, and Randall Cobbs. Plus the publicity of high school athletes that play also. They get to go home during the season and see themselves on sports overtime, or friday night flights ect.
I agree! The University of Kentucky's rising football program has helped the overall interest in KY high school football.
blitzingback Wrote:I understand the fact that more teams are getting to go to the playoffs, but I'm talking about the fact that teams are running more complex offenses and defenses. Not too many years ago it was strictly smashmouth football. There seems to be more and more teams ( with the exception of a few like Whitley, Johnson Cen., Belfry, and Russell ) that instead of trying to run over people try to out-scheme teams. Just my thoughts.
In that case, probably the four key reasons that football has "evolved" in my opinion:
1. Facilities- Higher frequency of weight rooms and training being offered. A successful strength and conditioning program will always at the very least turn a bad team into an average team.
2. Consolidation- The reduction of your tiny rural 1A schools into schools with better facilities and a higher talent pool to draw from.It is much easier to be a sustained "good" 4A team when you have 40+ players, then being a sustained "good" 1A team with 20+ players.
3. Feeder System Development- 20 years ago there were only a handful of programs that truly had a well developed feeder system, now that number is obsolete. Leagues and tournaments, coupled with more skilled coaches at the grassroots level have helped players learn fundamentals and general individual talent at Grades 5-8 instead of requiring teams to spend the majority of their Freshman and Sophomore seasons.
4. Travel- The oddest component that has helped, the increase in better and safer roads has had a significant impact. You can get from the far Eastern part of the mountains to the far Western reaches in 3 hours or less... before it could take 4.5-5 hours on a bus. This has allowed teams to play competition from a broader area and also allowed more scouting and better information flow.
The Bobcats are only as good as the Athletes they have,usually they have a few with each class(Jr Class will have around 10-12) and then they have a few that goes over and beyond the call of duty with the hard work and great Coaching,and when that happens Breathitt Co. usually has good chance at winning a few games,The Bocats are like most tems here in Mts. they need all the players they can get,and when you share your Athletes it hurts the other sports when they go deep in the Football play-offs,as we did this year,Keeping Channing Fugate,Dakota Ritchie,and Jade Haddix and Nick Noble(All Juniors) off the Gym floor make them very low Calb. Team,and only hope is that Football players gets their leggs back quick,and help all they can,then when tourney time rolls around they should be an Ok team.
I think the biggest item that has helped is kids who have played at the next level come back and coach. The level of instruction is more developed. The mountians have more great, sound coaches and staffs now. Although technology and money play a big hand, instruction is what makes the difference and we have better instructors due to them gaining expierence at the next level.
MonsterMan Wrote:I think the biggest item that has helped is kids who have played at the next level come back and coach. The level of instruction is more developed. The mountians have more great, sound coaches and staffs now. Although technology and money play a big hand, instruction is what makes the difference and we have better instructors due to them gaining expierence at the next level.
I agree!!!
EKUAlum05 Wrote:Not to be a downer...but it has more to do with more classes and more availability to advance deeper in the playoffs than anything.
word...diluted class system.
Is it true that in Class 2A, only one team in the state does not play in the playoffs? I heard this back at the beginning of the playoffs. When you have teams with 0-10, 1-9, 2-8 records playing in the playoffs, you have waaaayyy too many classes. The six class system has diluted the playoffs to a laughable joke.
I agree that players coming out of college has helped lots of teams here in KY. and will someday will make good coaches but usually they dont start at the top,so they usually have hard time getting what they know that will help those young athletes because they are so low on food chain of the coaching staffs,is this right maybe not but thats the way it is,and yes monies play more of a roll than most of us might think because they are a few coaches that make 6 figures out there,not saying they are not worth it because they are,but how many retire(or will not quit because of their big salerys)and comes back and get that big money just too coach and coach only, they are a few,is that helping our younger people thats played college ball and wants to coach bringing new energy and willing to teach new things and knows the ropes that can and will help the young athletes get too the next level ,maybe its wrong to think that way because most of these younger coaches may need to pay their dues as others have,which has made them coaches of winning program.
I would base it mostly on consolidation. I like all the old programs but when you put a couple together it can get very interesting. It seems that the lines around my old county vanished along with the bitter rivals. Now its one big heart beat smack dab in the middle of Letcher and its nice.
I know some don't like soccer on here, but the kicking game in recent years has changed in the mountains....at least in some places. Merrick has brought kicking to a new high in the mountains in the last four years. Bell will have a great drop off next year in the kicking game. They do not have a soccer program. Merrick moved in from Kansas City and turned to football as a replacement. Bet Bell County and now his parents who won't have to pay for his college are glad! Other schools with soccer programs have found a kicking pool to help the football team out, don't ya think?
BellCoBobcat Wrote:I know some don't like soccer on here, but the kicking game in recent years has changed in the mountains....at least in some places. Merrick has brought kicking to a new high in the mountains in the last four years. Bell will have a great drop off next year in the kicking game. They do not have a soccer program. Merrick moved in from Kansas City and turned to football as a replacement. Bet Bell County and now his parents who won't have to pay for his college are glad! Other schools with soccer programs have found a kicking pool to help the football team out, don't ya think?
I agree that it has helped some programs' kicking games...but on a whole soccer has had a greater NEGATIVE impact on football teams in the mountains.
Soccer teams do take players who would potentially be role players (players who don't start until their Junior or Senior season) or late developers
and given the chance to start as a Freshman in a different fall sport. This doesn't have much of an effect on larger programs who can still dress 60-80 players, but at most schools size 4A or smaller the loss of 8-10 potential players from their numbers has far reaching effects. It effects depth, it effects practice, and it emphasizes the impact of inuuries.
It is possible for soccer players to double as football players...but frankly kids don't want to invvest that time for two sports that occur at the same time of the year.
You guys have good points with the kicking game and better facilities and better coaching. It still boils down to a watered down six class system though.
FBALL Wrote:You guys have good points with the kicking game and better facilities and better coaching. It still boils down to a watered down six class system though.
What programs have won a state championship since they stated the watered down six class system?
ZoneRead Wrote:What programs have won a state championship since they stated the watered down six class system?
Every team that has won it since the 6 class system has previously won it before with the 4 class.
EKUAlum05 Wrote:I agree that it has helped some programs' kicking games...but on a whole soccer has had a greater NEGATIVE impact on football teams in the mountains.
Soccer teams do take players who would potentially be role players (players who don't start until their Junior or Senior season) or late developers
and given the chance to start as a Freshman in a different fall sport. This doesn't have much of an effect on larger programs who can still dress 60-80 players, but at most schools size 4A or smaller the loss of 8-10 potential players from their numbers has far reaching effects. It effects depth, it effects practice, and it emphasizes the impact of inuuries.
It is possible for soccer players to double as football players...but frankly kids don't want to invvest that time for two sports that occur at the same time of the year.
Tennessee has eliminated this problem with boy's soccer being a spring sport. I know that it competes with baseball.....but you are talking smaller numbers.
ZoneRead Wrote:What programs have won a state championship since they stated the watered down six class system?
The championships have reamained with basically the same teams that are traditional powers.
Personally I thought the system was watered down even when it was 4 classes. 4 teams from each district in the playoffs is just too many.
What 6 classes have done is allow more average teams to advance further in the playoffs.
FBALL Wrote:The championships have reamained with basically the same teams that are traditional powers.
Personally I thought the system was watered down even when it was 4 classes. 4 teams from each district in the playoffs is just too many.
What 6 classes have done is allow more average teams to advance further in the playoffs.
I would like to see them go back to the 4 class system, if not maybe 5 class. The attendence at the state finals leads me to believe that the HSAA will do something different to fix the problem.
ZoneRead Wrote:I would like to see them go back to the 4 class system, if not maybe 5 class. The attendence at the state finals leads me to believe that the HSAA will do something different to fix the problem.
The KHSAA is only worried about what helps the CITY schools.They don't want us mountain people to do any good.
ZoneRead Wrote:I would like to see them go back to the 4 class system, if not maybe 5 class. The attendence at the state finals leads me to believe that the HSAA will do something different to fix the problem.
Four, five or six classes doesn't matter. The top two teams from each district is enough for the playoffs. Go back to letting teams play 11 regular season games and cut out that meaningless first round of the playoffs.
That should work fine for everybody.
Sounds good to me.I don't like the bye week either.