If by "welfare state" you mean progressive taxation, social spending to strengthen the middle class and elevate the poor, and the regulation of corporate power, it does NOT offend Jeffersonian principles. Checks and balances working to protect people from government tyranny, from economic tyranny, from the tyranny of the majority and its mob mentality. Protection from tyranny, foreign and domestic.
thecavemaster Wrote:If by "welfare state" you mean progressive taxation, social spending to strengthen the middle class and elevate the poor, and the regulation of corporate power, it does NOT offend Jeffersonian principles. Checks and balances working to protect people from government tyranny, from economic tyranny, from the tyranny of the majority and its mob mentality. Protection from tyranny, foreign and domestic.
I wish we had the same income tax rate we had under Jefferson. Oh wait! They didn't have an income tax!
thecavemaster Wrote:I bet you drive off road 100% of the time, as you hate all taxes. Read Jefferson. What I wrote is consistent with his vision.
Taxes are a necessary evil. We need to pay for defense, roads, people who don't feel like going to work, etc, but you will NEVER convince me that it is fair to make one group of citizens pay a greater percentage in taxes than another. Can't you see how you take away the incentive for folks to get ahead? I challenge you to consider how many taxes we pay. Buy something, sales tax, property tax, taxes in phone bill, electricity bill, gas bill, income tax, insurance taxes, social security taxes, death taxes, hotel taxes, restaurant taxes. Where is it going? To curry favor with a certain constituency. Joe Biden says it's time to get patriotic and pay more taxes. I say it's time to get patriotic and quit looking to the government to care for you from the cradle to grave. Why is it always the producers who are asked to sacrifice.
thecavemaster Wrote:I bet you drive off road 100% of the time, as you hate all taxes. Read Jefferson. What I wrote is consistent with his vision.
I am sure his vision did not include people sitting at the house waiting for the welfare check to come in the mail. His vision was a government set up to assist hard working Americans that provide this country future hard working Americans, not children of dependent parents who become dependent on government as a result.
"Give a hungry man a fish and he is fed for a day, teach him how to fish, and he is fed for life." TRANSLATION handouts solve nothing but elections. If one is voting for Obama because of his economic plan, one is only hurting one's self later down the road. It's false hope.
thecavemaster Wrote:All human beings draw a sense of dignity from work, from catching fish for themselves; some legitimately cannot because of some physical or mental reason. I agree in part with your understanding of Jefferson. The working poor out number by far those on welfare rolls. I understand that eastern Kentucky has a reputation, probably deserved, for "people sitting at the house waiting for the welfare check," however, this makes me more sad than angry. When welfare began, my grandfather said (told to me by my father), your son will live to see fourth and fifth generation people caught in this trap. Trickle down economics is false hope: it counts on the very rich to share: the Judaeo/Christian religion suggests greed is intwined with the human heart.
It's not greed. It is having a desire and a work ethic to provide for your family. Not in having the govt do it. I am not rich, but I am able to take care of my family, and apparently a couple of more families as well through my govt contributions.
thecavemaster Wrote:If you make over $250,000 a year, then you certainly provide well for your family. Do you know what percent of your taxes go to helping those other families? You act like it's the majority. It's not. Once rode with a policeman in Nashville. He pulled over a guy for speeding. The guy said, "Hey, buddy, I pay your salary." The officer flipped him a nickle and said, "Here's your ticket. We're even." Utlimately, I am talking about the mega rich. The kind of rich that gets you access to power.
I find it interesting hearing this kid preach about taxes and how the rich should pay more, when I bet he doesn't even pay taxes himself, nor does his family.
[quote=Beetle01]I find it interesting hearing this kid preach about taxes and how the rich should pay more, when I bet he doesn't even pay taxes himself, nor does his family.[/quot
Your assumption, it seems to me, suggests that only very poor people get speeding tickets.
thecavemaster Wrote:[quote=Beetle01]I find it interesting hearing this kid preach about taxes and how the rich should pay more, when I bet he doesn't even pay taxes himself, nor does his family.[/quot
Your assumption, it seems to me, suggests that only very poor people get speeding tickets.
Not at all, its just that I find it interesting that someone who doesn't pay taxes, and who's family more than likely doesn't pay taxes is advocating a higher tax rate on wealthier people.
thecavemaster Wrote:[quote=Beetle01]
Again, if your assertion is that I don't pay taxes, you would be mistaken. How do you answer the "bread, milk and eggs" idea?
And you recieve every dollar back on your income taxes.
Its not the resposibility of the govt to take earned money away from me and give it to you so that the cost of bread, milk and eggs isn't so hard on your way of life. If I want to donate money to charity I will do so out of the kindness of my heart, not because Obama makes me.
thecavemaster Wrote:[quote=Beetle01]
This assumption of yours about my personal tax situation, which it seems to me should draw a sanction, is not relevant even if it were true ( which it is not).
Based on what you have said many times in this forum, you have either lied about your financial situations, or will not own up. Ill straight tell ya I get all my money back on my income taxes, and I don't feel that it is my place to say the guy down the road who is a doctor or lawyer should pay a higher percent than anyone else.
thecavemaster Wrote:[quote=Beetle01]
How do you answer the "milk, bread and eggs" idea? I do not get all taxes back. I do not make a tremendous amount of money. I believe in progressive taxation.
Answered in another thread.