Why does Obama continue to be friends with a man that bombed the Pentagon?
Why did Obama go to a church that preached Black liberation theology?
Why did Obama speak down about people clinging to religion and their guns?
Why did Obama go into a deal with a convicted slum-lord to purchase a house well under market value?
Why did Obama give people like the above mentioned slum-lord state money to build sub-par housing complexes while a state senator in Illinois, many of which are now condemned?
Why does Obama REFUSE to say what kind of change he will bring?
See anybody can find negatives.
launchpad4 Wrote:Why does Obama continue to be friends with a man that bombed the Pentagon?
Why did Obama go to a church that preached Black liberation theology?
Why did Obama speak down about people clinging to religion and their guns?
Why did Obama go into a deal with a convicted slum-lord to purchase a house well under market value?
Why did Obama give people like the above mentioned slum-lord state money to build sub-par housing complexes while a state senator in Illinois, many of which are now condemned?
Why does Obama REFUSE to say what kind of change he will bring?
See anybody can find negatives.
Obama is not friends with that guy. They worked on an education bill. That is it.
He's no longer a member of that church.
He wasn't speaking down to people. All the conservatives have misrepresented what he said. What he said was. People cling to the religion and gun issues politically because they are frustrated with the do nothing legislators that are in office. This mainly comes from the Conservative right falsely leading voters to think that the Liberal left want to take their guns and root out religion. Abotion, prayer in schools, 10 commandments in the courtroom. That sort of thing is what he was talking about. The muddying of the waters..
Obamas involvement with said Slyum Lord is much overstated.
I think Obama has thoroughly stated the kind of change he would bring but you're not listening.
DevilsWin Wrote:Obama is not friends with that guy. They worked on an education bill. That is it.
He's no longer a member of that church.
He wasn't speaking down to people. All the conservatives have misrepresented what he said. What he said was. People cling to the religion and gun issues politically because they are frustrated with the do nothing legislators that are in office. This mainly comes from the Conservative right falsely leading voters to think that the Liberal left want to take their guns and root out religion. Abotion, prayer in schools, 10 commandments in the courtroom. That sort of thing is what he was talking about. The muddying of the waters..
Obamas involvement with said Slyum Lord is much overstated.
I think Obama has thoroughly stated the kind of change he would bring but you're not listening.
He only left the church because of the political fall out. If that is the loyalty he shows to his faith, what kind of loyalty will he have to us?
So your saying Dems aren't moving for more and more gun control? Then you are very wrong if that is what you believe.
Overstated according to who? How can we take your word on how much they were involved, when facts point the other direction?
He speaks of change, yet his actions have shown us quite the opposite. he wants new leadership in D.C. but just him and the dems. They definelty know whats best for this country. How many republicans and conservative will he be taking advice from? Seems to me the only change we are getting is one poor partisan President for another.
Beetle01 Wrote:He only left the church because of the political fall out. If that is the loyalty he shows to his faith, what kind of loyalty will he have to us?
So your saying Dems aren't moving for more and more gun control? Then you are very wrong if that is what you believe.
Overstated according to who? How can we take your word on how much they were involved, when facts point the other direction?
He speaks of change, yet his actions have shown us quite the opposite. he wants new leadership in D.C. but just him and the dems. They definelty know whats best for this country. How many republicans and conservative will he be taking advice from? Seems to me the only change we are getting is one poor partisan President for another.
I wish you weren't such a pessimist.
launchpad4 Wrote:Why does Obama continue to be friends with a man that bombed the Pentagon?
Why did Obama go to a church that preached Black liberation theology?
Why did Obama speak down about people clinging to religion and their guns?
Why did Obama go into a deal with a convicted slum-lord to purchase a house well under market value?
Why did Obama give people like the above mentioned slum-lord state money to build sub-par housing complexes while a state senator in Illinois, many of which are now condemned?
Why does Obama REFUSE to say what kind of change he will bring?
See anybody can find negatives.
Why did Bush I and Bush II love the Saudis, where the overwheling majority of the terrorists of 9/11 were from? Isn't it true that if we start asking a bunch of "why" questions about most elected leaders...well, it becomes a bloodbath.
The Saudi government has helped the US in staging wars and is one of our few allies in the region. The government doesn't sponsor them like the little country of Iran does. You also have to think about the practical side of alienating all countries in that region. Many don't like Israel which is our greatest ally in the region and by allying with the Saudi's we can try and create a buffer zone in the region. Also much of the oil that we receive from the region comes from there. You can't discount an entire population because of a minority that lives there.
launchpad4 Wrote:The Saudi government has helped the US in staging wars and is one of our few allies in the region. The government doesn't sponsor them like the little country of Iran does. You also have to think about the practical side of alienating all countries in that region. Many don't like Israel which is our greatest ally in the region and by allying with the Saudi's we can try and create a buffer zone in the region. Also much of the oil that we receive from the region comes from there. You can't discount an entire population because of a minority that lives there.
You do know about the Madrassas don't you?
launchpad4 Wrote:The Saudi government has helped the US in staging wars and is one of our few allies in the region. The government doesn't sponsor them like the little country of Iran does. You also have to think about the practical side of alienating all countries in that region. Many don't like Israel which is our greatest ally in the region and by allying with the Saudi's we can try and create a buffer zone in the region. Also much of the oil that we receive from the region comes from there. You can't discount an entire population because of a minority that lives there.
So, when nations who house terrorists and anti-American literature allow us to use them as a base of operations to throw Iraq out of Kuwait (which was in their business interests), we need to be practical? Of course, this is inconsistent policy; the kind of doublespeak that has isolated us from much of the rest of the diplomatic world.
thecavemaster Wrote:So, when nations who house terrorists and anti-American literature allow us to use them as a base of operations to throw Iraq out of Kuwait (which was in their business interests), we need to be practical? Of course, this is inconsistent policy; the kind of doublespeak that has isolated us from much of the rest of the diplomatic world.
There are terrorist training camps in Saudi Arabia? Link please. Just because some of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudi's doesn't mean that the Saudi govt. supports terrorism against America. These people are about making money. Kinda stupid to support attacks on one of your biggest buyers.
Beetle01 Wrote:There are terrorist training camps in Saudi Arabia? Link please. Just because some of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudi's doesn't mean that the Saudi govt. supports terrorism against America. These people are about making money. Kinda stupid to support attacks on one of your biggest buyers.
Peruse Saudi Arabia and anti-American literature in schools. Do your own homework. The post says nothing about training camps. Nice invention of a straw man to destroy though.
thecavemaster Wrote:Peruse Saudi Arabia and anti-American literature in schools. Do your own homework. I don't the post says anything about training camps. Nice invention of a straw man to destroy though.
There's anti-american literature in America.
So that is another baseless misrepresentation of the truth.
Show me some sort of proof that the Saudi govt is helping further the cause of Islamic terrorists against the United States of America.
Beetle01 Wrote:There's anti-american literature in America.
So that is another baseless misrepresentation of the truth.
Show me some sort of proof that the Saudi govt is helping further the cause of Islamic terrorists against the United States of America.
Are you suggesting that in American public schools there is the kind of literature that exists in the Saudi schools, the iman led meetings, things of this sort? Are you suggesting that a sizeable portion of the Saudi population did not see 9/11 as a sort of just retribution? Again, do your own homework, not on blogs, but in the library.
thecavemaster Wrote:Are you suggesting that in American public schools there is the kind of literature that exists in the Saudi schools, the iman led meetings, things of this sort? Are you suggesting that a sizeable portion of the Saudi population did not see 9/11 as a sort of just retribution? Again, do your own homework, not on blogs, but in the library.
LOL once again show proof for any of your arguments. Once again religious leaders saying what they do to their congregations over there does not mean that the Saudi Govt. is supporting it.
If a portion of the Saudi population did see it as retribution, that once again does not mean that the govt is supporting that. Although you have no evidence to proove that a "sizeable portion of the Saudi population" did see it as that. I really think your messages would make more sense if you just randomly smashed buttons on your keyboard.
Beetle01 Wrote:LOL once again show proof for any of your arguments. Once again religious leaders saying what they do to their congregations over there does not mean that the Saudi Govt. is supporting it.
If a portion of the Saudi population did see it as retribution, that once again does not mean that the govt is supporting that. Although you have no evidence to proove that a "sizeable portion of the Saudi population" did see it as that. I really think your messages would make more sense if you just randomly smashed buttons on your keyboard.
Seriously, do you read books... you know, from the library? Your separation of the Saudi government from viewpoints within the populace is naive. In the segregationist South, preachers dripped with racism, as did citizens. Leaders also reflected that. Official policy might not be lynch mobs: but government officials looked the other way, and sometimes participated. In other words, you are disconnecting the government from the people, as if the government was not made up of... people. Again, look up for yourself whether or not a sizeable portion of the Saudi citizenry felt 9/11 justifiable.
thecavemaster Wrote:Seriously, do you read books... you know, from the library? Your separation of the Saudi government from viewpoints within the populace is naive. In the segregationist South, preachers dripped with racism, as did citizens. Leaders also reflected that. Official policy might not be lynch mobs: but government officials looked the other way, and sometimes participated. In other words, you are disconnecting the government from the people, as if the government was not made up of... people. Again, look up for yourself whether or not a sizeable portion of the Saudi citizenry felt 9/11 justifiable.
Man, are you losing your grip on reality?
In your mind you can connect the segregated south to the populace in Saudi Arabia. These 2 groups of people have about as much in common as me and you do. We are both humans, that's about it.
Your the one stating that the Saudi people hate Americans and that their govt is out to get us. Yet when I say your wrong, you try and tell me I don't read books, and I should goto the library and look it up. When its on your shoulders to provide the truth when you make such outrageous claims. Anyways, Ill bite, Ill goto the library when I get out of work today, just go ahead and tell me what book I need to check out.
Beetle01 Wrote:Man, are you losing your grip on reality?
In your mind you can connect the segregated south to the populace in Saudi Arabia. These 2 groups of people have about as much in common as me and you do. We are both humans, that's about it.
Your the one stating that the Saudi people hate Americans and that their govt is out to get us. Yet when I say your wrong, you try and tell me I don't read books, and I should goto the library and look it up. When its on your shoulders to provide the truth when you make such outrageous claims. Anyways, Ill bite, Ill goto the library when I get out of work today, just go ahead and tell me what book I need to check out.
Here is the analogy: a government reflects the populace of its people, if half way fair elections are held. Saudi Arabia is a Moslem country. See its treatment of women, its restrictions on other religions, etc. A government is not disconnected from the people. KIng's Ransom (Seymour Hersch) By the way, I didn't say that the Saudi people hate Americans. Whether Saudi or American, we hold our child's hand when we cross an intersection. Policies, economic and military, bring people's into competition and conflict.
The Saudi govt is about as disconnected from its people as a govt can be these days.
The Saudi people hate their govt. They see us as the people who allow them to stay in power, since they can't outright speak against their govt without fear of retribution. Some of them transfer that anger towards us.
Beetle01 Wrote:The Saudi govt is about as disconnected from its people as a govt can be these days.
The Saudi people hate their govt. They see us as the people who allow them to stay in power, since they can't outright speak against their govt without fear of retribution. Some of them transfer that anger towards us.
In Saudi Arabia, there is the government; there is the ruling family. It makes for interesting reading: decadent, but interesting.
Get Back On Topic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Beetle01 Wrote:He only left the church because of the political fall out. If that is the loyalty he shows to his faith, what kind of loyalty will he have to us?
So your saying Dems aren't moving for more and more gun control? Then you are very wrong if that is what you believe.
Overstated according to who? How can we take your word on how much they were involved, when facts point the other direction?
He speaks of change, yet his actions have shown us quite the opposite. he wants new leadership in D.C. but just him and the dems. They definelty know whats best for this country. How many republicans and conservative will he be taking advice from? Seems to me the only change we are getting is one poor partisan President for another.
Yes, and to boot his change is to take "our change" (pun intended) and give it to BIG DADDY government because he thinks we're too uneducated to know how to spend our own money. He is a rank and file liberal at best and a socialist at worst. IMO our country would not survive an Obama presidency.:eek:
BIGREDDAWG Wrote:Yes, and to boot his change is to take "our change" (pun intended) and give it to BIG DADDY government because he thinks we're too uneducated to know how to spend our own money. He is a rank and file liberal at best and a socialist at worst. IMO our country would not survive an Obama presidency.:eek:
Yes, we need to stay with what the Bush Presidency has did for us the last 4 years.Thats what we will get with the fake take express.
