How do you all feel about schools which consolidate to make 5 or 6 A schools being allowed to play in a 2 or 3 A district do to scheduling ? Do you think it is fair for a 5 or 6A school by enrollment to play in a 2 or 3A district? Just like to hear some opinions on this. How does this affect the other smaller schools which has to play a consolidated school with alot more numbers. If you were a player or coach how would this affect you if a school consolidated and had nearly double your enrollment was put in your district? I will not voice an opinion but I am curious to know what are some of your opinions on this issue? :confused: :o Thanks
MR.PERFECT Wrote:How do you all feel about schools which consolidate to make 5 or 6 A schools being allowed to play in a 2 or 3 A district do to scheduling ? Do you think it is fair for a 5 or 6A school by enrollment to play in a 2 or 3A district? Just like to hear some opinions on this. How does this affect the other smaller schools which has to play a consolidated school with alot more numbers. If you were a player or coach how would this affect you if a school consolidated and had nearly double your enrollment was put in your district? I will not voice an opinion but I am curious to know what are some of your opinions on this issue? :confused: :o Thanks
Consider if you were a 2 or 3 A school and had a chance for competing for the possible 4 spot to go to the playoffs and by cosolidation now you have a consolidated school with double your enrollment on your schedule. I will not give an opinion on this but would really like to hear yours and what would your thoughts be as a player and coach.
When did the KHSAA start allowing schools to play down in class, I thought they were only allowed to move up in class?
Old School Wrote:When did the KHSAA start allowing schools to play down in class, I thought they were only allowed to move up in class?
Due to scheduling conflicts If a school is a 2a or 3a school and consolidates to become a 5 or 6A school, If their schedule is set they will get to play their 2 or 3A schedule even though they have become a 5 or 6A school by enrollment to the best of my knowledge. Even though they will be redistricted the following year in a 5 or 6A district.
IMO If a school consolidates and goes from a 2 or 3A school to become a 5 or 6A school and doubles their enrollment, Scheduling conflict or not, Do you think it is right for them to be able to still play in a 2A or 3A district even though by consolidation they have become a 5 or 6A school?
Mercer Co beat everybody by 50 points in 2006. Came into the championship against us (Russell) and we beat them physically and one score was questionable.. Not to start that again. but the final was Russell 12-Mercer 15.
Mercer was a consolidated school with Harrodsburg I think. A 2A school and a 1A school to combine to give them a 5A school membership. They were allowed to play in 2A becasue they made their schedule 1 week before consolidating. This gave them to option to play in the 2 A division with approval of the KHSAA..
Not fair to every school they played that year becasue they went to the 5A division the next year withthe same enrollment.
Ask us we know!!!!
Not crying or belly aching.. just stating the truth.
MR.PERFECT Wrote:How do you all feel about schools which consolidate to make 5 or 6 A schools being allowed to play in a 2 or 3 A district do to scheduling ? Do you think it is fair for a 5 or 6A school by enrollment to play in a 2 or 3A district? Just like to hear some opinions on this. How does this affect the other smaller schools which has to play a consolidated school with alot more numbers. If you were a player or coach how would this affect you if a school consolidated and had nearly double your enrollment was put in your district? I will not voice an opinion but I am curious to know what are some of your opinions on this issue? :confused: :o Thanks
This is a repeat of the Mercer Co situation.
No, it's not right.
No, it wasn't right with Mercer Co.
No, It's not fair to the schools that must play in their district for that one year.
Players and coaches should accept the situation and learn a life lesson from it rather than move on.
The KHSAA is on the verge of self destruction currently anyway.
Life is unfair sometimes...and sometimes, those in leadership positions are looking for the easy solution rather than the Right solution.
Want to talk fairness and the KHSAA in the same post? Can't be done.
Well I'm one of the schools who are getting thrown into that sisuation... my name is Wesley Branham I play for Powell county high school I'm #15 and i play wide recever... we had a contract with Cawood and there school is being combiner with 2 other schools and i find it stupid. I don't see why that wont put them in a class were they should be in...
I found it odd also that we will be playing Cawood's schedule for this first transitional year. It's my understanding that Cawood was 3A and Harlan County High School will be 4A or 5A. Did Letcher Coutny Central or any other consolidated schools go thru this process?
Here's another question.....why do they even have "classes" in football? The size of the school doesn't seem to matter in basketball or baseball for a state tournament, so why football? I've always wandered that. Why do folks complain about school size during football and not baseketball season?
Furthermore I can't wait till the Black Bear's take the field. I think that you have a valid concern Wes.
Mama Bear Wrote:I found it odd also that we will be playing Cawood's schedule for this first transitional year. It's my understanding that Cawood was 3A and Harlan County High School will be 4A or 5A. Did Letcher Coutny Central or any other consolidated schools go thru this process?
Here's another question.....why do they even have "classes" in football? The size of the school doesn't seem to matter in basketball or baseball for a state tournament, so why football? I've always wandered that. Why do folks complain about school size during football and not baseketball season?
Furthermore I can't wait till the Black Bear's take the field. I think that you have a valid concern Wes.
As far as Cawoods schedule, because the new school will be a 3A school in the first year, they chose to use Cawoods schedule since it was already a 3A school, the next year (09-10 season) they will move up in the class alignment and play in a different class size.
as for the the football classes they are a little different than basketball you see, with basketball you pretty much have the same amount of team members on each team no matter what class and you don't really play due to the class size of a team, like cawood and harlan played, although they do have the All "A" tournament giving the smaller schools in kentucky a chance to be able to play and compete on the same level with another team as they might not with another powerhouse team in kentucky.
so in football, one team might have 40 players or so like Harlan Ind. which was a 1A school as to someone in a 3A or 4A who might have 80 or more team members, they have a bigger team, who may or may not be stronger and so its an unfair advantage to smaller teams to play them as they don't have the same amount of players of each other.
to me thats why people argue so much over the Classes in football...
wes#15 Wrote:Well I'm one of the schools who are getting thrown into that sisuation... my name is Wesley Branham I play for Powell county high school I'm #15 and i play wide recever... we had a contract with Cawood and there school is being combiner with 2 other schools and i find it stupid. I don't see why that wont put them in a class were they should be in...
i'm not sure why they did it like that the first year having them play in the 3A class but they will be moved up to the right class in 09-10
Quote:so in football, one team might have 40 players or so like Harlan Ind. which was a 1A school as to someone in a 3A or 4A who might have 80 or more team members, they have a bigger team, who may or may not be stronger and so its an unfair advantage to smaller teams to play them as they don't have the same amount of players of each other.
I understand the thought that if you have a larger team, then your talent pool is larger, and therefore you
should have better players.
You can still only play 11 on the field at a time. Same as basketball, you can only play 5 at a time. It wouldn't matter if you dressed 150 on the sidelines, you can only play 11. In theory, the best player in each position.
Some of these smaller schools don't seem to mind playing some of the larger schools.
Mama Bear Wrote:I understand the thought that if you have a larger team, then your talent pool is larger, and therefore you should have better players.
You can still only play 11 on the field at a time. Same as basketball, you can only play 5 at a time. It wouldn't matter if you dressed 150 on the sidelines, you can only play 11. In theory, the best player in each position.
Some of these smaller schools don't seem to mind playing some of the larger schools.
i understand what your saying but while you only have 11 on the field at one time, if you have 150 dressed on the sidelines to play, then you can substitute a lot more for players than you would if you only had about 40 or so on the team...
Nothing is fair anymore, everyone has an arguement for each side so it will continue to happen and happen and happen..
The MERGER CO blessing will continue to strike in other schools.
No its not right but you still have 4 other schools in your district. Estill,Powell,Fleming,Breathitt. You still have a chance to make playoffs. They also have to play Harlan. You make it sound like its only your school and Harlan in the District and they will only take the top team. Remember 5 teams in drastic and 4 advance. If you did lose against Harlan that doesn't mean you cant make the playoffs. With the new playoff like it used to be you may never see them again and the may be knocked off. How far will you make it in the playoffs by not playing in it, nowhere. So all I'm really saying is just suck it up and go with it.
LCC did not follow this path.
let me see if i got this straight,ky football rules confuse the heck out of me.
two saller schools combine then they go up to a 5A or 6a school. do they get to play down every year or just one?
do they make a schedule then combine for that one year in order to go for a state title? Do stay combined or dispurse after the season?
sorry for my ignorence just trying to figure it out.
It was a shame what happen to Russell a couple of years ago,now i kinda see what happen.
Mama Bear Wrote:I found it odd also that we will be playing Cawood's schedule for this first transitional year. It's my understanding that Cawood was 3A and Harlan County High School will be 4A or 5A. Did Letcher Coutny Central or any other consolidated schools go thru this process?
Here's another question.....why do they even have "classes" in football? The size of the school doesn't seem to matter in basketball or baseball for a state tournament, so why football? I've always wandered that. Why do folks complain about school size during football and not baseketball season?
Furthermore I can't wait till the Black Bear's take the field. I think that you have a valid concern Wes.
Why do you think ST.X, Trinity, and teams like that dominate. It's not because they're from Louisville. They are well coached but not anymore well coached than a Belfry or Russell I promise. IT'S ALL ABOUT THE NUMBERS! Flemming, Powell, Estill will have to play their BEST players on both sides of the ball and for the whole game.
You take a consolidated school from 3A to 6A and they will double these teams in numbers. So they will have twice the depth and twice the number of kids to choose from. The other TRUE 3A teams in the district will have to play with what they got and on both sides of the ball. In Basketball what are they're mabey 15 on a team counting freshmans too. Look at these other teams that play with what they have because that is what they have. They don't have the pleasure of picking the best from 2 other schools. I'm not against the consolidation but when your 6A in numbers and you will be in a 6A district the following year It's really a BAD and UNFAIR move getting to play in a 3A district. NUMBERS don't lie, 6A shouldn't play in a 3A district. ADVANTAGE 6A.
The exact difference between Mercer and Russell in the 2006 championship game was the total enroolment at Raceland High school. Now if you place Raceland and Russell together, how fair would it be to play Lewis, West Carter, East Carter and Mason?? Thats the schools in our district.. Now if you move on and play it still makes a differnce.
Your point is well taken Mr. Perfect and if I were in your shoes I'd be aggravated too. BUT... I'm a Black Bear fan and I'm hoping to win every game we play. I ain't gonna lie, it would be awesome to win a state championship, put an asterick beside our name on the record, it wouldn't make a difference to me. I don't even know if winning state is a possibility. This consolidation will be good for our county. I'm of the opinion that Harlan County is due.
Next year we will be playing a 5Aschedule , but this year we ain't. We hope to enjoy this season and hopefully it will be a springboard for our team's future. Our boys are working really hard in the weightroom and are anxious to get some pads on here in a month or so. Who knows what will happen this year? Two things are for sure: We have us a dandy coach that knows how to win and we have a bunch of home grown mountain boys that want to win!!!
Fair or not fair, it's reality.
DEVILOLOGIST Wrote:The exact difference between Mercer and Russell in the 2006 championship game was the total enroolment at Raceland High school. Now if you place Raceland and Russell together, how fair would it be to play Lewis, West Carter, East Carter and Mason?? Thats the schools in our district.. Now if you move on and play it still makes a differnce.
Heck it's not fair for Russell or Raceland to be playing Lewis now
let alone with them combined.
Isn't Mason Co a consolidated school with the old Maysville school?
Mama Bear Wrote:I found it odd also that we will be playing Cawood's schedule for this first transitional year. It's my understanding that Cawood was 3A and Harlan County High School will be 4A or 5A. Did Letcher Coutny Central or any other consolidated schools go thru this process?
Here's another question.....why do they even have "classes" in football? The size of the school doesn't seem to matter in basketball or baseball for a state tournament, so why football? I've always wandered that. Why do folks complain about school size during football and not baseketball season?
Furthermore I can't wait till the Black Bear's take the field. I think that you have a valid concern Wes.
Letcher Central went through this. It has taken them 4 years to get a respectable program. You are not combining Danville and Boyle Co. You are looking at Evarts, Cumberland, and Cawood. Cumberland being the only average team.
MR.PERFECT Wrote:Why do you think ST.X, Trinity, and teams like that dominate. It's not because they're from Louisville. They are well coached but not anymore well coached than a Belfry or Russell I promise. IT'S ALL ABOUT THE NUMBERS! Flemming, Powell, Estill will have to play their BEST players on both sides of the ball and for the whole game.
You take a consolidated school from 3A to 6A and they will double these teams in numbers. So they will have twice the depth and twice the number of kids to choose from. The other TRUE 3A teams in the district will have to play with what they got and on both sides of the ball. In Basketball what are they're mabey 15 on a team counting freshmans too. Look at these other teams that play with what they have because that is what they have. They don't have the pleasure of picking the best from 2 other schools. I'm not against the consolidation but when your 6A in numbers and you will be in a 6A district the following year It's really a BAD and UNFAIR move getting to play in a 3A district. NUMBERS don't lie, 6A shouldn't play in a 3A district. ADVANTAGE 6A.
You didn't mention Breathitt struggling with them, they won't. They only have around 35 kids like they did last year, and yes they play both sides of the ball and did when they won 3 state championships. Danville won the state championship with 20 players, beat St. X along the way, and the single A team they played fielded 80+ kids, Beechwood. Another thing, Russell dresses close to 80 per game, don't want to mention Belfry. The plain fact is, you can only play 11 at a time! There is not a law that says you can't get in great shape! Chuck Smith played his best 11 at Boyle Co. They dressed a lot but few played!
Mr. Perfect you seem to be all one sided on this topic. Now I understand that in football more so than any other sport numbers are important, but what about the teams that were scheduled to play one of the consolidating schools? They will lose a game for the season. That too could cost them a shot at the playoffs. You are looking at this thing one sided, and even though it is not totally fair, it is the most reasonable solution based on scheduling and finances. Bottom line is one team being added to your district is not enough to single handidly keep you out of the playoffs. You still have a chance to out play other teams and get one of the other 3 spots. So don't worry about the 1 team that has a bigger enrollment, try beating the other teams that have the same enrollment.
DEVILOLOGIST Wrote:Mercer Co beat everybody by 50 points in 2006. Came into the championship against us (Russell) and we beat them physically and one score was questionable.. Not to start that again. but the final was Russell 12-Mercer 15.
Mercer was a consolidated school with Harrodsburg I think. A 2A school and a 1A school to combine to give them a 5A school membership. They were allowed to play in 2A becasue they made their schedule 1 week before consolidating. This gave them to option to play in the 2 A division with approval of the KHSAA..
Not fair to every school they played that year becasue they went to the 5A division the next year withthe same enrollment.
Ask us we know!!!!
Not crying or belly aching.. just stating the truth.
With all due respect Devilologist, you can't have your cake an eat it to. You can't say how it is unfair and at the same time mention how Russell had them beat. If by your arguement it makes it sound as though it doesn't matter f they are playing down or not cause the best team will still win.
But, for the record, I agree with qhat you were getting at. It is unfair, and Mercer's title should forever have an asterisk. Russell was CLEARLY the bets 2A team in the state that seasona nd should have a state title to show for it.
Mama Bear Wrote:I understand the thought that if you have a larger team, then your talent pool is larger, and therefore you should have better players.
You can still only play 11 on the field at a time. Same as basketball, you can only play 5 at a time. It wouldn't matter if you dressed 150 on the sidelines, you can only play 11. In theory, the best player in each position.
Some of these smaller schools don't seem to mind playing some of the larger schools.
You are right that you can only have 11 on the field... but a typical team will only have one or two playmakers on both sides of the ball, when you double the ammount of boys to choose from, you also double your number of playmakers. It's a law of averages.....
When you only have 150 boys to choose from, your odds of having 11 kids READY and physically mature for varsity football is alot less likely than if you had 300 boys to choose from.
Also, a larger talent pool affords you the opportunity to play completely seperate offensive and defensive units. Could you imagine how good Belfry and Russell would be if they had the resources to only have to play their starters one way and not two?
EKUAlum05 Wrote:With all due respect Devilologist, you can't have your cake an eat it to. You can't say how it is unfair and at the same time mention how Russell had them beat. If by your arguement it makes it sound as though it doesn't matter f they are playing down or not cause the best team will still win.
But, for the record, I agree with qhat you were getting at. It is unfair, and Mercer's title should forever have an asterisk. Russell was CLEARLY the bets 2A team in the state that seasona nd should have a state title to show for it.
Dude if you know me I have had cake, as many as I can eat, pie, pudding and lamb chops TOO. My point is this, if you look at the history
Class AA, Semi 2, Region 3, District 5
(1)Mercer County 10-0 5-0
(2)Newport 7-3 3-2
(3)Spencer County 6-4 3-2
(4)Lloyd Memorial 4-6 3-2
Henry County 3-7 1-4
North Oldham 0-10 0-5
Averaged 50.7 points a game-Mercer County, 2006 (760/15)
[SIZE=1]109 TD's in a season- Mercer County, 2006 (15)
[SIZE=1]RUSHING YARDS - Season (Min. 4,900)
School, Season, Year (Games Played)
5,780 Mercer County, 2006 (15)
Rushing yards per game-[SIZE=1]
613 Mercer County (vs. Lloyd Memorial) 2006
Rushing yards per game per season-[SIZE=1]
385.3 Mercer County, 2006 (5,780/15)
[SIZE=1]TOUCHDOWNS RUSHING - Season (Min. 60)
School, Season (Games Played)
87 Mercer County, 2006 (15)-#1
Now compare this.........2000...2001...2002...2003...2004..2005..2006..2007
[SIZE=1]Mercer Co.....................7-4,... 8-3,... 8-3, ...5-6,... 6-, ....10-2..,15-0,.. 5-6, 64-29 68.8%
[/SIZE]
their 10-2 season they were beat by Russell 41-26..
Now add this to Mercer.
Harrodsburg:
Cory Jackson, Harrodsburg 10 1066 106.6 8
Top 15 Rushing Teams
(ranked by yards per game)
School Gm Yds Per Gm
Lynn Camp 10 3034 303.4
Bardstown 10 2991 299.1
Danville 10 2762 276.2
Bethlehem 10 2715 271.5
Bellevue 10 2701 270.1
Hancock County 10 2662 266.2
Lexington Christian 10 2649 264.9
Fairview 10 2639 263.9
Murray 10 2569 256.9
Evarts 10 2436 243.6
Crittenden County 10 2402 240.2
Metcalfe County 10 2320 232.0
Harrodsburg 10 2294 229.4
Now no matter what you say. adding 2 schools will make a difference if you stay in the old class system. Just a little stats to show the meaning of the point.. AND
Oh yea thanks for reminding me of cake.....
I am kinda hungry..
[/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE]
Mama Bear Wrote:Your point is well taken Mr. Perfect and if I were in your shoes I'd be aggravated too. BUT... I'm a Black Bear fan and I'm hoping to win every game we play. I ain't gonna lie, it would be awesome to win a state championship, put an asterick beside our name on the record, it wouldn't make a difference to me. I don't even know if winning state is a possibility. This consolidation will be good for our county. I'm of the opinion that Harlan County is due.
Next year we will be playing a 5Aschedule , but this year we ain't. We hope to enjoy this season and hopefully it will be a springboard for our team's future. Our boys are working really hard in the weightroom and are anxious to get some pads on here in a month or so. Who knows what will happen this year? Two things are for sure: We have us a dandy coach that knows how to win and we have a bunch of home grown mountain boys that want to win!!!
Fair or not fair, it's reality.
agreed. i think people need to wait until the season starts, like someone else mentioned, playoffs are a different story, what happens if someone beats out the bears the first round or something, we are not automatically given the championship just yet, i think we've got a little ways to go for everyone to get in the groove of things, while i am a fan of the new school and also agree that its something that is great for our county; i'm not going to say they're going to win just yet until i see them play... then i'll make my decision based on that. which i think is what everyone needs to do, they might be puttin to much pressure on these guys....but at the same time maybe pressure is a good thing for them and might bring them closer....who knows
Super-Card Wrote:Mr. Perfect you seem to be all one sided on this topic. Now I understand that in football more so than any other sport numbers are important, but what about the teams that were scheduled to play one of the consolidating schools? They will lose a game for the season. That too could cost them a shot at the playoffs. You are looking at this thing one sided, and even though it is not totally fair, it is the most reasonable solution based on scheduling and finances. Bottom line is one team being added to your district is not enough to single handidly keep you out of the playoffs. You still have a chance to out play other teams and get one of the other 3 spots. So don't worry about the 1 team that has a bigger enrollment, try beating the other teams that have the same enrollment.
You are absolutely right. Unfortunately for Powell they are not going to be competing for the playoffs because they ARE NOT going to play HCHS. It has been done and HCHS as of right now only has 9 games and Powell will be playing Walton-Verona in their place. It is really unfortunate for the kids on the team, you know you got 10 games and that is it! On the other hand for HCHS they don't have to worry about getting upset by one of the teams and can look forward to the playoffs. Hopefully they can get a 10th game and those kids in that school system don't suffer from losing a game. It is absolutely rediculous something couldn't be done. Kudos to the teams that have played consolidated schools in the past, win or lose, YOU DID YOUR PART!
EKUAlum05 Wrote:You are right that you can only have 11 on the field... but a typical team will only have one or two playmakers on both sides of the ball, when you double the ammount of boys to choose from, you also double your number of playmakers. It's a law of averages.....
When you only have 150 boys to choose from, your odds of having 11 kids READY and physically mature for varsity football is alot less likely than if you had 300 boys to choose from.
Also, a larger talent pool affords you the opportunity to play completely seperate offensive and defensive units. Could you imagine how good Belfry and Russell would be if they had the resources to only have to play their starters one way and not two?
You have to have the kids out to play regardless of how many are in the school. In my opinion that is why we have coaches to do the best with what they have. Like I have mentioned, when Boyle, Breathitt, Danville, those type teams won the state, they may have had #'s but only 11 to 14 played. Danville won 3A in the 80's and were a 1A school. They played up! State champions in 3 classes, guess it's good you can't do that anymore or they may have been working their way to championships in 6 classes. You play your best regardless. Breathitt went to the semi's last year w/ 35 kids on the team, they are a 3A school. I bet they will be right back again this year, they play old school football, just like Belfry and Russell.