First, when Kobe ran out Shaq and Phil (and every other player with any talent), and just tried to score 200 points a game, I admit I thought he was overrated, stupid, and ruined a franchise.
Now, he rarely forces a shot and plays great team ball. I'll admit he does occasionally force a shot, but that's not often, and he plays defense and great team ball. If he can win a championship, he'll have done with perhaps one of the greatest post-seasons in history, with leadership being a very big reason.
Even though he's not getting many assists, you have to look at it from the point that he draws defenders off other players and makes the defense always account for him, soo that could be seen as an assist. He's getting a lot of rebounds, playing decent defense, and setting up his teammates.
Look at all these powerhouse teams (Celtics, Spurs, Pistons), and look at Kobe's poor supporting cast (Jordan never had one this poor). He may not have come up with numerous game winners like Jordan did, but other than that, has this post season been as good or better than any of Jordans?
IMO, Bryant is better than Jordan... atleast he may be once he retires.
Kobe can score anytime he wants, he has the rings, a true leader with a not so good supporting cast, etc. He is my favorite player in the NBA, and I hope he does meet my Pistons in the finals.
blackcat_student Wrote:IMO, Bryant is better than Jordan... atleast he may be once he retires.
Kobe can score anytime he wants, he has the rings, a true leader with a not so good supporting cast, etc. He is my favorite player in the NBA, and I hope he does meet my Pistons in the finals.
Come'on man Bryant better than Jordan? Now Kobe is the best player in the NBA but i dont think he can hold a light to Jordan,and IMO i think they will never be another Jordan, here is some of Jordan's Career Highlights-
Six-time NBA champion (1991-93, 1996-98); NBA MVP (1988, '91, '92, '96, '98); 10-time All-NBA First Team (1987-93, 1996-98); All-NBA Second Team (1985); Defensive Player of the Year (1988); Nine-time All-Defensive First Team (1988-93, 1996-98); Rookie of the Year (1985); 14-time All-Star; All-Star MVP (1988, '96, '98); One of 50 Greatest Players in NBA History (1996); Two-time Olympic gold medalist (1984, '92).
But you are entilted to your opinion!
RedSeal Wrote:Come'on man Bryant better than Jordan? Now Kobe is the best player in the NBA but i dont think he can hold a light to Jordan,and IMO i think they will never be another Jordan, here is some of Jordan's Career Highlights-
Six-time NBA champion (1991-93, 1996-98); NBA MVP (1988, '91, '92, '96, '98); 10-time All-NBA First Team (1987-93, 1996-98); All-NBA Second Team (1985); Defensive Player of the Year (1988); Nine-time All-Defensive First Team (1988-93, 1996-98); Rookie of the Year (1985); 14-time All-Star; All-Star MVP (1988, '96, '98); One of 50 Greatest Players in NBA History (1996); Two-time Olympic gold medalist (1984, '92).
But you are entilted to your opinion!
Kobe's achievements...
Youngest NBA All-Star starter also featured in last 10 NBA All-Star games (98-present), 2-time NBA All-Star MVP, NBA Champion (00-02), All-NBA 1st team (99-present), All-Defensive Team 8 of the last 9 seasons, 2-time scoring champion, scored 81pts in a single game, 2008 NBA MVP.
NBA Records...
Most three-point field goals made with 12, Most three-point field goals made, one half with 8, Most consecutive three-point field goals made, one game with 9, Most free throws made, one quarter with 14, Most free throws attempted, one quarter with 16, Youngest player to score 15,000 points, Youngest player to score 20,000 points, Youngest Slam Dunk champion, Youngest player to be named to the NBA All-Defensive Team, Youngest player to start a game.
Throughout his career he's averaged; 25.0ppg, 4.6apg, 5.3rpg, 1.53stl, 36.5mpg.
Plus he still has alot of years left to play, he may not be better than Jordan now but when its all said and done, Kobe Bryant will be the greatest player of all-time in the NBA.
blackcat_student Wrote:Kobe's achievements...
Youngest NBA All-Star starter also featured in last 10 NBA All-Star games (98-present), 2-time NBA All-Star MVP, NBA Champion (00-02), All-NBA 1st team (99-present), All-Defensive Team 8 of the last 9 seasons, 2-time scoring champion, scored 81pts in a single game, 2008 NBA MVP.
NBA Records...
Most three-point field goals made with 12, Most three-point field goals made, one half with 8, Most consecutive three-point field goals made, one game with 9, Most free throws made, one quarter with 14, Most free throws attempted, one quarter with 16, Youngest player to score 15,000 points, Youngest player to score 20,000 points, Youngest Slam Dunk champion, Youngest player to be named to the NBA All-Defensive Team, Youngest player to start a game.
Throughout his career he's averaged; 25.0ppg, 4.6apg, 5.3rpg, 1.53stl, 36.5mpg.
Plus he still has alot of years left to play, he may not be better than Jordan now but when its all said and done, Kobe Bryant will be the greatest player of all-time in the NBA.
Plain and Simple- Kobe Bryant will be the closest thing to Jordan, But there will NEVER be another JORDAN!
30.1ppg 6.2 rpg 8.9 apg 5.3 stl and he also shot 49% fro his career!
Well Kobes stats dont even compare to Lebron James, so I guess that would make Lebron better than Kobe?
RedSeal Wrote:Plain and Simple- Kobe Bryant will be the closest thing to Jordan, But there will NEVER be another JORDAN!
30.1ppg 6.2 rpg 8.9 apg 5.3 stl and he also shot 49% fro his career!
Well Kobes stats dont even compare to Lebron James, so I guess that would make Lebron better than Kobe?
I agree with you on the part that there won't be another Jordan, and that Kobe will be the closest thing. But Kobe is better is better Lebron.
RedSeal Wrote:Plain and Simple- Kobe Bryant will be the closest thing to Jordan, But there will NEVER be another JORDAN!
30.1ppg 6.2 rpg 8.9 apg 5.3 stl and he also shot 49% fro his career!
Well Kobes stats dont even compare to Lebron James, so I guess that would make Lebron better than Kobe?
Kobe is much better than Lebron.
RedSeal Wrote:Plain and Simple- Kobe Bryant will be the closest thing to Jordan, But there will NEVER be another JORDAN!
30.1ppg 6.2 rpg 8.9 apg 5.3 stl and he also shot 49% fro his career!
Well Kobes stats dont even compare to Lebron James, so I guess that would make Lebron better than Kobe?
Its not all about stats. His stats are better than Kobe's because his supporting cast even worse and he has to do
everything himself. If he was on a team with more talent his stats would probably go down as well.
blackcat_student Wrote:Kobe is much better than Lebron.
I have the same opinion I just dont think Kobe will be better than Jordan!, Kobe has been to the finals 3 times and never was finals MVP, Jordan was there 6 times and was Finals MVP all 6 times, and the guy averaged 5 steals a game, to me thats just amazing!
Jordan won his 1st MVP at the age of 25 (4th year in the league, 1988) against the likes of Isaiah Thomas, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson ,etc. Kobe just won his 1st MVP this year, His 12th season.
Yes, Jordan had Scottie Pippen and Kobe had Shaq. BUT, Kobe wasn't the Main Player on those Champ. Teams, Shaq was. Michael Jordan is a 5-time MVP, 6-time Finals MVP, 6-time Champion, He has won way more scoring titles than Kobe. He was a better a defensive player than Kobe (9-time all-defensive 1st team, 1988 Def. Player of the Year)
Michael Jordan had the likes of Scottie Pippen, Luc Longley, Toni Kukoc, Jud Buechler, Steve Kerr, John Salley, Ron Harper, etc. (Who all would've been nothing without Jordan)
Kobe had the likes of Shaq (who is considered one of the most dominating players of all time and he was better than Scottie Pippen), Derek Fisher(playoffs all-time 3pt. FG made leader), Robert Horry (Big Shot Rob, 7-time NBA Champion), Ron Harper, and now the likes Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom, Andrew Bynum (when he comes back, he will become a All-Star)
Jordan played in the days of the Detroit Bad Boys, The Bird led Celtics, The Lakers of Magic and Kareem. Kobe has played in the days of Duncan, Garnett, a Young Lebron, Paul Pierce, Nash, etc. I dont think Kobe would have made it against the rough play back in the day, because nowadays players are protected by the flagrant fouls (type 1 and 2), fines, suspensions for techinals, etc.
Plain and Simple, Michael Jordan done alot more with a less talented supprting cast, and His stats are better, his resume of accomplishments are better.
LeftBeaverAAU Wrote:Jordan won his 1st MVP at the age of 25 (4th year in the league, 1988) against the likes of Isaiah Thomas, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson ,etc. Kobe just won his 1st MVP this year, His 12th season.
Yes, Jordan had Scottie Pippen and Kobe had Shaq. BUT, Kobe wasn't the Main Player on those Champ. Teams, Shaq was. Michael Jordan is a 5-time MVP, 6-time Finals MVP, 6-time Champion, He has won way more scoring titles than Kobe. He was a better a defensive player than Kobe (9-time all-defensive 1st team, 1988 Def. Player of the Year)
Michael Jordan had the likes of Scottie Pippen, Luc Longley, Toni Kukoc, Jud Buechler, Steve Kerr, John Salley, Ron Harper, etc. (Who all would've been nothing without Jordan)
Kobe had the likes of Shaq (who is considered one of the most dominating players of all time and he was better than Scottie Pippen), Derek Fisher(playoffs all-time 3pt. FG made leader), Robert Horry (Big Shot Rob, 7-time NBA Champion), Ron Harper, and now the likes Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom, Andrew Bynum (when he comes back, he will become a All-Star)
Jordan played in the days of the Detroit Bad Boys, The Bird led Celtics, The Lakers of Magic and Kareem. Kobe has played in the days of Duncan, Garnett, a Young Lebron, Paul Pierce, Nash, etc. I dont think Kobe would have made it against the rough play back in the day, because nowadays players are protected by the flagrant fouls (type 1 and 2), fines, suspensions for techinals, etc.
Plain and Simple, Michael Jordan done alot more with a less talented supprting cast, and His stats are better, his resume of accomplishments are better.
Finally someone agree's with me! And people say there was no one to play against back then, he played against Isiah Thomas,larry Bird,Magic Johnson,Hakeem Oljuawon,John Stockton, karl malone,- then they say no one guarded him, its beacuse nobody could guard him!
LeftBeaverAAU Wrote:Jordan won his 1st MVP at the age of 25 (4th year in the league, 1988) against the likes of Isaiah Thomas, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson ,etc. Kobe just won his 1st MVP this year, His 12th season.
Yes, Jordan had Scottie Pippen and Kobe had Shaq. BUT, Kobe wasn't the Main Player on those Champ. Teams, Shaq was. Michael Jordan is a 5-time MVP, 6-time Finals MVP, 6-time Champion, He has won way more scoring titles than Kobe. He was a better a defensive player than Kobe (9-time all-defensive 1st team, 1988 Def. Player of the Year)
Michael Jordan had the likes of Scottie Pippen, Luc Longley, Toni Kukoc, Jud Buechler, Steve Kerr, John Salley, Ron Harper, etc. (Who all would've been nothing without Jordan)
Kobe had the likes of Shaq (who is considered one of the most dominating players of all time and he was better than Scottie Pippen), Derek Fisher(playoffs all-time 3pt. FG made leader), Robert Horry (Big Shot Rob, 7-time NBA Champion), Ron Harper, and now the likes Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom, Andrew Bynum (when he comes back, he will become a All-Star)
Jordan played in the days of the Detroit Bad Boys, The Bird led Celtics, The Lakers of Magic and Kareem. Kobe has played in the days of Duncan, Garnett, a Young Lebron, Paul Pierce, Nash, etc. I dont think Kobe would have made it against the rough play back in the day, because nowadays players are protected by the flagrant fouls (type 1 and 2), fines, suspensions for techinals, etc.
Plain and Simple, Michael Jordan done alot more with a less talented supprting cast, and His stats are better, his resume of accomplishments are better.
Duncan, Garnett, Lebron, Pierce, and Nash are all some of the greatest players the NBA has ever seen and future HOFers. Kobe plays against just as tough, if not tougher, competition than MJ did. And we shouldnt even be having this argument right now because Kobe still has about 9 or 10 years left.
colts12 Wrote:Duncan, Garnett, Lebron, Pierce, and Nash are all some of the greatest players the NBA has ever seen and future HOFers. Kobe plays against just as tough, if not tougher, competition than MJ did. And we shouldnt even be having this argument right now because Kobe still has about 9 or 10 years left.
Pierce may have a tough time getting in the Hall of Fame. No way Kobe plays against tougher competition than Michael did. Kobe has already played 12 years, no way he has 9 more years, especially not at this level. I'd say Kobe has about 3 or 4 more superstar level years in him. Your talking about 20+ years in the NBA, 82 games a year, plus the playoffs and sometimes even Olympic Competition. Kobe is in the middle of his Prime right now, in 3 or 4 years you will see Kobe decline as each year goes by.
BillSelf Wrote:Pierce may have a tough time getting in the Hall of Fame. No way Kobe plays against tougher competition than Michael did. Kobe has already played 12 years, no way he has 9 more years, especially not at this level. I'd say Kobe has about 3 or 4 more superstar level years in him. Your talking about 20+ years in the NBA, 82 games a year, plus the playoffs and sometimes even Olympic Competition. Kobe is in the middle of his Prime right now, in 3 or 4 years you will see Kobe decline as each year goes by.
You bring up a good point.
BillSelf Wrote:Pierce may have a tough time getting in the Hall of Fame. No way Kobe plays against tougher competition than Michael did. Kobe has already played 12 years, no way he has 9 more years, especially not at this level. I'd say Kobe has about 3 or 4 more superstar level years in him. Your talking about 20+ years in the NBA, 82 games a year, plus the playoffs and sometimes even Olympic Competition. Kobe is in the middle of his Prime right now, in 3 or 4 years you will see Kobe decline as each year goes by.
I didnt say he had 9 years of superstar level play. He'll decline just like MJ did. But if he retires at the same age MJ did (the last time he retired) than he still has 11 years left.
colts12 Wrote:I didnt say he had 9 years of superstar level play. He'll decline just like MJ did. But if he retires at the same age MJ did (the last time he retired) than he still has 11 years left.
MJ was still in his prime in 1998, when he won his 5th MVP, 6th Championship and 6th Finals MVP. IMO, he should've played until 2002, instead of sitting out until 2000.
Kobe will be 30 in August. He came straight from HS, unlike Jordan. With that said he has played more long NBA seasons than Jordan did at the age of 30. Jordan had like 9 years under his belt at age 30, Kobe has 12 years in the long NBA seasons under his belt. Jordan was 35 in 1998(14th season) and still was in his prime. When MJ come back in 2000, it showed that his prime had indeed passed, So MJ missed out on actually four years of his prime, including his first retirement. The Jordan led Bulls could have indeed won it those 4 years, because with him the team would have been intact...
So say Jordan didnt retire and the Bulls dominance continued, your talking about from 91'-2000 with 10 championships under Jordan's belt. and 2 or 3 more MVP's and Finals MVP's for MJ. Just think about that for a second.
Without retiring until 2002, Jordan would have something like 40,000pts. (#1 in NBA history by a few thousand lol), 10 titles, 8 or 9 MVP's, 9 or 10 Finals MVP's, a few more scoring titles, etc.
Unless Kobe wins a few more titles(on his own, because Shaq was the man in the 1st 3) and MVP's, He shouldn't even be compared to the Greatest to ever lace em up, MJ.
BillSelf Wrote:MJ was still in his prime in 1998, when he won his 5th MVP, 6th Championship and 6th Finals MVP. IMO, he should've played until 2002, instead of sitting out until 2000.
Kobe will be 30 in August. He came straight from HS, unlike Jordan. With that said he has played more long NBA seasons than Jordan did at the age of 30. Jordan had like 9 years under his belt at age 30, Kobe has 12 years in the long NBA seasons under his belt. Jordan was 35 in 1998(14th season) and still was in his prime. When MJ come back in 2000, it showed that his prime had indeed passed, So MJ missed out on actually four years of his prime, including his first retirement. The Jordan led Bulls could have indeed won it those 4 years, because with him the team would have been intact...
So say Jordan didnt retire and the Bulls dominance continued, your talking about from 91'-2000 with 10 championships under Jordan's belt. and 2 or 3 more MVP's and Finals MVP's for MJ. Just think about that for a second.
Without retiring until 2002, Jordan would have something like 40,000pts. (#1 in NBA history by a few thousand lol), 10 titles, 8 or 9 MVP's, 9 or 10 Finals MVP's, a few more scoring titles, etc.
Unless Kobe wins a few more titles(on his own, because Shaq was the man in the 1st 3) and MVP's, He shouldn't even be compared to the Greatest to ever lace em up, MJ.
You have no idea what would've happened those years if Jordan would've stayed so you can't be saying that he would have 10 titles and 9 MVPs. And I never once said that Kobe was better than MJ. I was just defending him for all those people that say he shouldn't even be compered with MJ because he is the closest thing to him.
colts12 Wrote:You have no idea what would've happened those years if Jordan would've stayed so you can't be saying that he would have 10 titles and 9 MVPs. And I never once said that Kobe was better than MJ. I was just defending him for all those people that say he shouldn't even be compered with MJ because he is the closest thing to him.
I was referring to you in some parts and other posters with other things i said.
Well they won it 91-93 and 96-98, Jordan was retired for 94 and half of 95, so you can't tell me that they wouldn't have won it those 2 years at least, which would be 8 titles and he prolly would have atleast got one MVP out of those 2 years. After Jordan left in 1998, the whole team basically left. Ron Harper(PG on the 96-98 teams) went on to win 2 or 3 titles with the Lakers at PG, so he must have had sumthing left in the tank. Rodman was still as crazy as ever
, Pippen was still his old self, and MJ was still in his prime. With that said there is no doubt in my mind the Bulls could've won anywhere from 1-4 titles in those extra 4 yrs. with Michael.
Let Kobe retire for 2 yrs. then come back for 3 more ( and still play at the level he was playing at when he retired), then retire again for 2 more years and see what happens.
Kobe has next to no supporting cast. Odom and Fisher aren't bad, but who does he have that can make plays or even contribute? No one at any kind of level that Jordan had.
Scottie Pippen- one of the best all-around players in the league, possibly of all time (one of the best ALL-AROUND).
Kukoc, BJ Armstrong, Dennis Rodman, Horace Grant- among others. Kobe has nowhere near the supporting cast that Jordan had in any given year. Jordan did make those players better, but he had more raw material to work with than Kobe does.
Did anybody see the interview with Kobe about Jordan?
He was like "are you kidding me? That's MICHAEL JORDAN- he's the BEST EVER, and you're trying ot put me on his level? My name can't even be mentioned in the same sentence as his."
Made me like him even more; his character and style of play has changed SO MUCH.
BFritz Wrote:Kobe has next to no supporting cast. Odom and Fisher aren't bad, but who does he have that can make plays or even contribute? No one at any kind of level that Jordan had.
Scottie Pippen- one of the best all-around players in the league, possibly of all time (one of the best ALL-AROUND).
Kukoc, BJ Armstrong, Dennis Rodman, Horace Grant- among others. Kobe has nowhere near the supporting cast that Jordan had in any given year. Jordan did make those players better, but he had more raw material to work with than Kobe does.
Did anybody see the interview with Kobe about Jordan?
He was like "are you kidding me? That's MICHAEL JORDAN- he's the BEST EVER, and you're trying ot put me on his level? My name can't even be mentioned in the same sentence as his."
Made me like him even more; his character and style of play has changed SO MUCH.
Kobe has Gasol (Memphis's Best Player when he was traded to LA) and had Bynum for most of the season. But in the playoffs it's been Fisher (all-time playoff career 3pts. leader), Odom is pretty good, Gasol (Has been an all-star if im not mistaken)
Jordan didn't have Grant or Armstrong 96-98 and didnt have Rodman or Kukoc until 96. Kobe has not won one title yet being the Main Man. Jordan has six titles being the Man. He's only behind Jordan in MVPs by 4 lol and NBA Finals MVPs by 6, not even close in scoring titles, etc.
If Kobe wins 2 or more titles, and a few more MVP's, then and only then should we be having this conversation and debate.
BFritz Wrote:Kobe has next to no supporting cast. Odom and Fisher aren't bad, but who does he have that can make plays or even contribute? No one at any kind of level that Jordan had.
Scottie Pippen- one of the best all-around players in the league, possibly of all time (one of the best ALL-AROUND).
Kukoc, BJ Armstrong, Dennis Rodman, Horace Grant- among others. Kobe has nowhere near the supporting cast that Jordan had in any given year. Jordan did make those players better, but he had more raw material to work with than Kobe does.
Did anybody see the interview with Kobe about Jordan?
He was like "are you kidding me? That's MICHAEL JORDAN- he's the BEST EVER, and you're trying ot put me on his level? My name can't even be mentioned in the same sentence as his."
Made me like him even more; his character and style of play has changed SO MUCH.
Me too man. And I like his attitude. Just a great person all around.
BFritz Wrote:Kobe has next to no supporting cast. Odom and Fisher aren't bad, but who does he have that can make plays or even contribute? No one at any kind of level that Jordan had.
Scottie Pippen- one of the best all-around players in the league, possibly of all time (one of the best ALL-AROUND).
Kukoc, BJ Armstrong, Dennis Rodman, Horace Grant- among others. Kobe has nowhere near the supporting cast that Jordan had in any given year. Jordan did make those players better, but he had more raw material to work with than Kobe does.
Did anybody see the interview with Kobe about Jordan?
He was like "are you kidding me? That's MICHAEL JORDAN- he's the BEST EVER, and you're trying ot put me on his level? My name can't even be mentioned in the same sentence as his."
Made me like him even more; his character and style of play has changed SO MUCH.
Yeah I saw it. I thought it was kinda ironic how we were having this argument and then he said all that.
kobe is the best to ever play the game IMO...... also does anyone have any idea who could ever guard kobe?
RedSeal Wrote:Plain and Simple- Kobe Bryant will be the closest thing to Jordan, But there will NEVER be another JORDAN!
30.1ppg 6.2 rpg 8.9 apg 5.3 stl and he also shot 49% fro his career!
Well Kobes stats dont even compare to Lebron James, so I guess that would make Lebron better than Kobe?
Jordan averaged 8.9 apg? That can't be accurate.
I think Kobe is the best in the game right now, and the closest to Jordan of anyone in history. Hard to say who is better, but I do think Kobe is a better shooter . . . especially from the 3 point line.
NIKE2010 Wrote:MJ is the best ever.
Correct!:Thumbs: